There is no "right" attitude when it comes to breast cancer

Maya2

So many women put extra pressure on themselves to have a so-called "positive attitude." How about going for an "honest" attitude? Let the guilt go and feel real.

http://www.vancouversun.com/health/There+right+attitude+have+when+comes+breast+cancer/3642123/story.html

leaf

Yes! At last an article that says telling other people they should a positive attitude can be umm   unhelpful.

nancyluvspink

When I feel like being happy and positive, I act that way.  When I am feeling down and irritable and on the verge of crying, I avoid people to the best of my ability.  Trying to act happy and smiley is exhausting, and usually doesn't work out right.  Say and Do as you feel is right for you.  That's my advice.    ((((HUGS))))

3jaysmom

lets' face it; between chemo, then als (for some of us) and the fear of reoccurence.. there  is definitely good days, and bad days. depression can bring on bad weeks, at least for me. when asked, on "those days " i say things can't always be roses.. or, somedays are more of a challenge than others.. i've been know to be brashly honest, even before b.c. so, most ple don't mind..and say sorry , hope things will be better soon. for the last 20 yrs. with m.s.; i've gotten "but you look so good" my good friends KNOW i make an extra effort when i'm not feeling good, makeup, foobs etc. so, they actually will ask me "what's wrong? you're all gussied up tonight. i really appreciate THOSE friends. the one's who insist on the positivity, they get the not so nice answers, like , believe me, i don't feel as good as you think i look..or much worse. i hate "faking" it, and try hard to just be honest with how i feel. i don't need any more phoniss in my life. don't know if that helps, but in everything, i think honesty is the best policy...    light and love, 3jaysmom

Leah_S

When I was first dx, someone in my dh's family came out with the "think positive"  stuff. I ignored the comment. When I told her recently of my mets dx, one of the things she said was "I will think positive thoughts for you". Ah, now that's better.

Leah

Bren-2007

"Thinking positive" was the dumbest thing I ever heard for a cancer diagnosis.  As if someone elses (or mine) happy thoughts were going to cure my cancer.  My thoughts didn't cause my cancer and they sure aren't going to cure it.

Trying to move forward with dignity and respect for ourselves is probably the best we can do.  Celebrate the good days and mourn the bad ones.

When my DH says to think positive, I don't get angry, I know he means well ... but bless his heart, he just doesn't understand the fear.

Bren

leaf

"Thinking positive" was the dumbest thing I ever heard for a cancer diagnosis.

Hear, hear. I think 'thinking positive' is the dumbest thing I ever heard for *any* sad/bad/fearful situation.  Its crazy!  (I'm 'allergic' to 'crazy' situations.)   I belong to another support group, and some of those people have a very serious diagnosis.  I get scolded when I question their 'you just gotta think positive' attitude. ("I'm so sorry you don't have a positive attitude."  And this is from the patients themselves!!  I got to think there is some social conditioning thing on this support group (like the Milgrim experiment? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment).  Guess why I prefer this support group.

  A positive attitude is fine if you choose it for yourself.  Just don't tell someone else they need to be positive.

otter

This will be the second post I've made today that I might come back and delete.

The "positive thinking" stuff is designed to make the people around us feel more comfortable.  Most of us know that.  But once in awhile, we run into someone who truly believes (for whatever reason) that positive thinking is going to affect the outcome.

I know someone like that from where I used to work.  He's a super-religious person, very kind-hearted and generous, and seemingly happy all the time.  I saw him at a social gathering not long after I finished chemo.  I was still bald, and was wearing a nice outfit with one of my favorite scarves and long, dangly earrings.  (I looked much more gussied-up than usual.)  Everyone told me how "great" I looked.  When asked, I said I was feeing "great" as well, because it was true... that day. 

So, this happy-all-the-time person said to me, "You know, being positive like you are makes all the difference."  I responded, "Well, I'm not positive all the time.  Sometimes I feel downright grumpy."  And he said, "But, studies have shown that people who think positive thoughts have a better outcome."

I couldn't just brush this guy off.  He's a friend and former co-worker, he has a very good medical background, and he works with cancer patients.  So, I smiled and said, "Well, yes, I've heard that -- but I'm not so sure.  Sometimes I think it does me more good to just be honest with my feelings when things aren't going so well, and then get over it!".  (We basically agreed to disagree, that particular venue not being the place to engage in an argument about positive thinking.)

Where am I going with this?  About 2 months ago, a mutual acquaintance of ours -- also a very strong, super-religious (wear it on your sleeve), healthy-behavior, positive-thinking-type person went to her doctor because she'd been nursing too many aches and pains lately.  She's in her 50's, so she had just assumed it was due to age, her job, and her active lifestyle. 

Turns out, she has metastatic lung cancer.  Seriously.  A middle-aged woman who never smoked, doesn't drink, gets loads of exercise, and does everything right.  She has a 3+ cm tumor in her lung, mets in her thoracic and lumbar vertebrae and her hip, and a met in her femur that was so far advanced, it had eaten right through the bone and almost caused a pathological fracture.

She's had surgery to stabilize the femur, several weeks of rads to slow things down, and is heading into her 2nd round of a chemo regimen I've never heard of (the kind of stuff they try on people with late-stage lung cancer).  All her friends, family, and co-workers are still thinking positive thoughts.  Some have even told her they are sure she is going to be "cured".  (They offer religious reasons for their confidence, which I will not entertain here.)  I just shake my head, sigh, and send her my best wishes, kindest regards, and funniest stories. 

As Maya said, there is no "right" way to deal with these things.

otter

Maya2

Otter, please don't delete your post. It resonated with me just like the article did. 

When I was diagnosed with BC I called my mother to tell her. Her only response: "Well, you just better have a positive attitude." Her voice was stone cold. She didn't care.

I might add, I'm the only family member who has ever survived cancer--even with my lousy attitude. Other family members were "cured" and died. Oh yes, and they all had "positive" attitudes.

I cut off all contact with my "family" at that point. That was nearly 9 years ago. It was the best thing I ever did for me. Now I surround myself with people who really care about me and call them family. But I don't know if I'll ever get over rejection so complete. 

BarbaraA

Otter, I always find your posts to reasoned and thoughtful. Please do not delete them.

Laurie_R

Not only do we have the daily dealings that go along with Breast Cancer but then our other life issues comes in to visit and bites us in the butt just to make things interesting.

alhaun

Wow. And I thought it was just ME that got irritated when so many suggested that I should have a positive attitude. I was actually told, "Well at least your going to LIVE"! Wouldn't we all just like to walk around with a positive attitude. If we were all able to do that we would have no need to be here talking!!!! I agree with the idea that we deal with our feelings as we feel them and get past them as we can. In our own way and in our own time. Feelings also cannot be ignored and stuffed away. They will only surface down the road in another form.

Amy

anonymice

I am still new to all of this cancer stuff - started chemo a week after diagnosis.  And it has annoyed me even at this early stage, a little. 

But I know they just don't know what to say and the majority are just being nice. I think people are generally kind and want to help.

  Right now, I am very positive and happy, but that is just my stage right now.  It would be wonderful if I could keep it during my 6 months of chemo, then bilat mx, then radiation, then possibly more chemo...but I know how I could barely talk without crying just 6 weeks ago.  I figure I'll go through all sorts of stages, some more negative than others.

Dee2010

I'm a generally optimistic person. I was optimistic after I had thyroid cancer; didn't prevent me from getting BC, but it helps me feel better about myself.  It's a 'me' thing. Comments from others about me 'being positive' just get on my nerves. I realize it's mostly something people say when they don't know what to say, but after hearing it10 times in a row it gets old. I'm an adult, and was, I think, well socialized as a child.  I therefore no longer need anyone to tell me what kind of attitude I should have, or what I should be feeling. 

1Athena1

Glad that otter did not delete her post.

I think a "positive attitude" is so personal that it is almost like religion. You should never and can never tell anyone to just have it. Nor should you preach it as a coping mechanism; it doesn't work for many. 

I have had plenty of "attitude" about my cancer and most - but not all - could be described as positive. The "positive" parts helped me to smile, but I have needed more substantive, meaty parts to tackle it.

What I cannot tolerate --and I admit I may be overly sensitive-- is someone else dictating that that is the solution to either your problem or your feelings about the problem. Too often, the phrase "Just think positive" is used to masquerade as advice. That is why I was infuriated when someone stated, as though it were fact, that "a positive attitude changes everything" on the Pompeed/"Not buying it" thread. Actually, it changes nothing. It just makes you think it does.

crazy4carrots

I've always thought that the advice to "think positive" really means "be optimistic, cuz if you're not, you're bringing everybody down".  Maybe I'm wrong about that?

barbe1958

When I get the "think positive" I say "Oh, I AM!! I'm postive I have cancer!" That usually shuts them up. Or...I look really deeply into ther eyes and say "Now you know better than that!" And I raise one eyebrow....just one.

We know that people don't know what to say...this is a rant thread for the frustration we feel when people imply it's in our control to cure ourselves.

I NEVER say "Hi, how are you?" And I'm in sales!!!! It's unecessary small-talk and no one listens to the answer. It's like nothing was said at all, just noise. So every once in a while when someone says it to me I'll say 1) don't ask  2) do you really want to know  3) pretty bad, wanna hear why? 4) I'll let you know when I know......

So when people say be positive, it's a reflex like "I'm just looking" but it really, really pisses us off!

anonymice

Sometimes, for sure, Linda.  But mostly it's just a thing to say, like "put jewelweed on poison ivy" or "suck on a lollypop to quit smoking" - and I'd say most people believe it.  Personally I haven't actually looked in to how your attitude effects cancer specifically - if at all.  But if someone asked me if being optimistic, seeking out laughter, and other "positive" behaviors and attitudes effect your health, then I would refer to the many studies that say it does.  No way can watching "Dumb and Dumber" cure cancer...but it might strengthen your immune system and your heart, and allow you to better tolerate your therapies and resist infection and thereby....cure or arrest your cancer. 

I never thought about it before.  *I* think having a positive attitude can be helpful with dealing with cancer as a small factor.  What I do *not* believe is that a positive attitude is something within the control of most people, you have it or you don't generally - our personalities become rather hard-wired.  If you have it at least part of the time, you are quite fortunate, cherish it.  You are lucky.

I saw something on the American Cancer society page that I really liked - it addressed this and said that attitude has no effect on cancer treatment (it didn't cite sources) and that many people with cancer feel bad because everyone tells them to be positive.  I mean, most folks with breast cancer do well these days, and not a one of us - not a *sane* one of us - is skipping around like Mary Sunshine.  So it makes sense.

barbe1958

AHA!! That's where you're wrong Pam, IMHO (in my humble opinion).

A positive attitude IS in most people's control. There's an expression "Fake it till you make it." Means to smile, and laugh and be around people until you feel good. Or go to work like normal, Stuff like that. Your body will "remember" the feelings and you will start to feel good again. Or you can always wake up with a smile by going to bed with a hanger in your mouth!  You know you can re-wire someone.....it IS very hard, think of addictions! You have to get those synapses firing in different directions.

OTOH (on the other hand) ((giving you clues to what the abbreviations mean as I see you are new)) though laughter may be the best medicine, I am one of the funniest people I know and belly laugh almost every day. My DH is the same and we have sat through crisises just laughing. Not hysterically, but more like "How much worse can it get? How LOW can we go?" We have handled more than most people I know could even come to handle half of. I have an auto-immune disease as well as cancer and horrid arthritis. Though I used to dance till the sun came up, scuba dived and rode my own motorcycle, I can't do any of that now. Maybe I just broke....hmmmm

NatsFan

If we're perky and positive, it makes it a lot easier for people around us.  I have my doubts that it does so much for us - if there are studies showing a better outcome for people with positive attitudes, maybe it's because brave cheerful cancer patients get better care from doctors, nurses, family and friends because they tend to go the extra mile for a patient who is positive.  And frankly I like myself better when I'm positive, but I also allow myself occasionally to have those bad cranky "why me" pity party days.  Too many people don't want to allow us to have those bad days, and that's what's really irritating about this whole positive attitude thing.

I have a friend who was recently dx with Stage IV prostate cancer.  Unfortunately both he and especially his wife have bought into the idea that all he has to do is maintain a positive attitude to have a good outcome.  The sad thing is that he's actually refusing various treatments because they both feel that his positive attitude will carry the day for them.  I can understand refusing various treatments if you've thoroughly researched the pros and cons (I declined rads after a lot of research and soul searching even though one of two rad oncs strongly recommended them).  But he's not declining it knowledgably as a result of research they've done - he's declining it because he thinks his positive attitude is the equivalent of life saving medical treatment. 

But when you think about it, that's the logical conclusion if you take the positive attitude stuff literally - just forgo all medical treatment because your positive attitude will cure you.  

anonymice

Well Barb, we'll have to agree to disagree on that one.  I don't think a generally negative, cynical person can just "look on the bright side", especially when faced with something like a cancer diagnosis.  Although to be fair, I have certainly met many more depressed individuals professionally than most people encounter.  

I personally did bounce back - I had four weeks of really strong anxiety and grief, but I have always been cheerful.  I'm cheerful now despite being in the midst of chemo, having no hair, and having a pretty challenging diagnosis.  My opinion is that although I *do* work at being happy, it is only because I'm *able* to.  

barbe1958

Ah Pam, you are so right! But then the chemical imbalance in their brain requires the pharmacology that is so readily available. So many people don't realize how much chemistry is part of our life process and shun those who are depressed or angry without chemical assistance.

So I stand corrected.

D4Hope

Yes I so agree. I had so many people tell me to be positive that i nearly lost it. That's why I like coming here and going to my breast cancer support groups. Nobody ever tells you you have to feel what you don't feel.

Dee2010

NatsFan wrote: "...better outcome for people with positive attitudes, maybe it's because brave cheerful cancer patients get better care from doctors, nurses, family and friends because they tend to go the extra mile for a patient who is positive."

I have to say that my experience has been the opposite.  Being optimistic (and doing lots of research and being knowledgeable when I go to the doctors) has led to less attention for me, I think. They all (medical community, family and friends) see me as independent and self-sufficient. As one doctor said, I don't "need a lot of hand holding". I've even been asked to help other patients when they're afraid of certain treatments (e.g. having the port put in, chemo). I don't mind that, but it feels very lonely sometimes...

BMac

Dee, I think you hit the nail on the head!  I've always maintainted that people took me a little for granted because I didn't make a big fuss, just got on with it.  I wouldn't say I'm a particularly positive person (let little things bug me) but in big life threatening things I seem to have a handle on things.

Sometimes when we appear to be coping so well people thing everything's okay and it isn't always.  My husband said if it'd been him he'd be yelling and screaming.  He was amazed at my grace.  I think I was screaming inside!  Like I've told friends, I have my dark moments that none of them see.

Claire82

My bathtub saw a lot - it is a great place to cry

BMac

And the shower!