alcohol and breast cancer

jpb

Ok so this isn't really easy but here goes. I recently had a left mx and lymph node biopsy in which 8 of 9 are positive. I start chemo in 3 weeks. I hate to admit this but I enjoy drinking-probably more than most. Does anyone else out there have the same problem? I know that alcohol and breast cancer are linked but I don't know if I can or want to quit.Anyone understand what I'm talking about?

lago

I have read that cancer feeds on sugar. Alcohol I believe turns to sugar. This is why diabetics are not supposed to drink.

It's not that drinking will cause you to have cancer. It's that if you have cancer cells they will feed on the sugar and multiply/grow faster or something like that.

http://women.webmd.com/news/20090224/alcohol-linked-to-cancer-risk-in-women

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/breast-cancer-prevention/WO00091 

lisaattheshore

I think the latest is that there is a much closer relationship with ILC than other types of BC.  And  what Lago says is my understanding as well.  I think the other piece of it might be weight, which might be harder for some people who drink.  (Or is it that if you drink you weigh more or WHATEVER). 

Not knowing if you are able to quit is something different I think, but perhaps you didn't mean it the way I understood it.  Not wanting to quit--totally different!  I decided not to drink during treatment (so I didn't have to remember which drug I took that day and which didn't go with alcohol)  but I am sure looking forward to the end of that!

My onc said drinking in moderation was fine, but would not tell me how much/often 'moderation' was.  A different Dr told me 'on weekends' was fine.  (3 days a week?  36 hours?  idk.....)

There is a drinking thread.......most of the ladies seemed to have cut back a bit and also improved the other parts of their diets. 

Wish I could get a disease that required me to eat nachos and pizza, or drink, or lie on the couch......sigh........     

lisaattheshore

oooops,  or eat nachos and pizza while lying on the couch drinking.........

Twinmom77

 wish I had known how big an influence alcohol consumption has on getting bc. I think sugar is definitely part of it, but in addition to that, alcohol causes estrogen levels to rise.  Being highly ER+, and trying to get my estrogen levels down, I'm just not willing to risk it anymore.  I know what you mean about it being hard to quit.  I was an extremely heavy drinker prior to dianosis (about 4-6 drinks a night,  5-6 nights a week, hellooooo, alcoholic!!!) and I'm the type of person that can not stop at one drink. But I've managed to cut down to one drink every 3-5 months.  It just doesn't relax me anymore because while I'm having that glass of wine, I'm worrying about how much my estrogen levels are going up.  I miss beer terribly, and it's hard to go out to dinner with friends and not drink, but I'd miss my health more!

Twinmom77

lisa - I second that!  I wish there was a disease that required eating chocolate chip cookie dough by day and wings, jalopeno poppers, and beer at night!

pickle

Great topic and appreciate the honesty. I was just thinking about this tonight as I sip my wine...I like wine with dinner. I don't drink soda, don't eat sweets because I really don't like sweet things but I like my wine. My DH and I usually drink a bottle a night between us....is that excessive? I am not overweight and like I mentioned...I don't eat sugar...do I get a pass...lol?

lago

I just read an article that people who exercise, eat right including a lot of veggies, don't drink much lower, aren't overweight their risk of BC.

Didn't work for me. My risk of getting this at my age was like 1-2%. I hardly ever drink.

Granted I'm not going to start drinking heavily although it might get me through chemo ;-)

lisaattheshore

You are right, twin, missed the estrogen connection. 

At my age, the increased risk from drinking was .002.  I don't think that is very much.  But again, since then, the study came out that relates alcohol specifically to ILC, rather than IDC. 

I am sure there are great variations between some one who drinks but eats in an otherwise healthy way and gets excercize, and someone who starts drinking at 9am and sits around smoking in a bar eating bar food.  But it hardly matters for all of us, since we are all here regardless of which we did!  So.........

I will just add that I LOVE poppers, and we make our own........fresh peppers, make the filling, often make our own crumbs from homemade bread, and have our own chickens........crazy, I know..........

1Athena1

Learning that there is ANY connection between alcohol and ANY breast cancer strikes me as cruel. I used to go for weeks without drinking, but since dx I have one drink almost every night. Suffice it to say that one's anxiety goes up - particularly if one had to stop smoking to prevent recurrence or related cancers.

 I don't know what kind of mentally stable person they expect us to be. Their health orders seem to be: get a dx that is as anxiety-producing as hell, but don't drink or smoke or eat comfort foods? That is not reasonable! Lol! 

Annabella58

Hi ladies this thread cracks me up....love it!

There is no truth to sugar feeding cancer,that one's a myth (per MSK oncologist) as I love my chocolate and would rather eat that than food.  so I asked .

There is truth to the alcohol/cancer thing, but she told me that if I'm not having Jack Daniels for my breakfast, and can stick to one or two wine spritzers or 1 glass of wine a week with a pizza or some food, it's fine.  Not optimum, but fine.  Everything in moderation.  She also said that I should eat normally, that people that go all extreme with health foods, veggie diets, etc., are worse off than those of us that eat pretty normally, altho she emphasized the exercise//healthy diet thing.  We do live in a toxic world, I guess.

sooooo, that is what I do.  Having just had a York peppermint patty, but no wine.

love

annie

lisaattheshore

pickle, a bottle here only has like 3 glasses in it?  Maybe 4?  So you drink betwen 1 and 2 glasses a night?  To me that does not seem excesive, but I am not a medical person. 

I am more like I would simply love to drink a whole bunch of drinks a night! But who has time!  I have a job, and kids, and a business, and a house/yard/critters.  And hobbies, and friends, etc!  (and nw I have all that plus chemo) Say if I was on vaca, I would certainly expect to drink every night!  I used to sometimes wonder if when the kids left, or when I retired, would I do just that?  Hang around and drink?  Would I be an old lady in a bar taking a taxi home?  Hey--where is the bar anyway?  Do we have a taxi here?  Is that just planning ahead, or a sign of latent problem?  Mainly kidding here.....I expect to be pretty busy then too!

Annabella58

Lisaattheshore, I like the way you think girl.

Now, if i could add some Country Kettle fudge while lying on the couch with poppers and wine,,,,ahhhh perfect.

And how true is it, that the MOST anxiety provoking disease has to take wine away from us???

Sometimes I say screw this, and just have a glass and exercise more.

Annabella58

...also, back to the original question.  If I were being totally honest, ladies, I spent alot of time frankly plastered after learning my diagnosis and waiting for surgery.

It sucked, and I know you guys can relate.

Lisa, where's that bus.

hymil

Good luck

lisaattheshore

HI ANNIE!

Yeah, that two weeks or so........I figured any damage was done, and I was having it removed anyway.....

Hmmm, I need to look into that bus/taxi situation.  Might need to do some market research, see if a ride is available and how long it takes...maybe another business in the works    Won't be me driving tho!

LuvRVing

Just want to correct something regarding alcohol and diabetes...

 most alcohol is processed as a fat by the liver, it does not "turn to sugar" or glucose.  Whatever you mix it with may very well raise glucose levels, if you choose juices or soft drinks, or whatever.  Diabetics are advised to drink carefully because alcohol can lower glucose levels, which could be dangerous if they go too low.  It is always wise to eat something when you drink.  Also, some diabetics' medications have cautions about binge drinking (metformin, for example). 

As for drinking and breast cancer, I think the latest "news" links alcohol use to ILC.  Each person should discuss alcohol use with their medical team.  If liver function is normal and there are no likely interactions with current medications, then an occasional drink should not be a problem.

Sleeping pills or anxiety meds probably should not be taken with alcohol.

Michelle

Beesie

Yes, there does seem to be a proven connection between alcohol consumption and breast cancer risk (or breast cancer recurrence risk) however it's important to know that pretty much all the studies show the increase in BC risk from alcohol to be relatively small.  Additionally, a study from last year suggested that the benefits from moderate alcohol consumption relative to heart health, for example, cancel out any negative effects that alcohol has relative to breast cancer risk. So as long as you consume moderately, the overall risk, if there is any, is minimal.

The question of course is "what is moderate consumption?"  The studies tend to peg the number pretty low (something like 2 or 3 small glasses of wine per week) but we have to keep in mind that the findings of these studies were based on self-reporting.  Was everyone 100% honest in reporting how much they drunk?  Probably not.  So I'd guess that a 'safe' amount of consumption is higher, I'm guessing probably closer to 5 - 7 glasses of wine per week (and the glasses probably aren't as small as reported).  That's just speculation on my part, but that's what I'm basing my actions on.

This following video is great.  The speaker is one of the foremost experts on lifestyle factors and cancer, and she's talking about the conclusions of the 2009 study.  For anyone concerned about alcohol consumption, it's worth the 3 minutes to watch this:

http://www.ecancermedicalscience.com/tv/video-by-category.asp?play=364&cid=5&scid=0&q=

jpb

Thanks ladies for all your replies so far. Food(or wine!) for thought!

Twinmom77

lisa - how did you find out your increased risk for drinking?  I'd like to figure out mine. The homemade poppers sound awesome and are probably a bit better for you than the restaraunt version too.  Do you mean you raise your own chickens?!  I would love to do that someday.

Once my kids are grown and I'm 65 or 70, I for sure plan on being that old lady at the bar!  Where's my cab? But at 33, I've got a little ways to go!  

...I just realized this is the 40-60ish forum.  I hope you guys don't mind me butting in!

ToriGirl

All I know is,,,I miss my DOS EQUIS lager with fresh lime...

2nd treatment of TC tomorrow, so I'm on the wagon until after treatment, at least...still need to discuss it more with my medical team...

Have a great night!

Tori

DE COLORES! 

RachelKa

Hey JPB,

I may not be helping to say this - but I'm with you - I can't give up the vino either. I have done everything I  can to justify staying with it because it tastes so good and is so relaxing.  First, I'll say, my oncologist sticks with the studies that say 7 glasses per week of red is ok.  Though I do more like 8 or 9 and in like water glasses. But I water it down just a little and allow myself almost no other sugar other than maybe a serving or two of berries (cancer-fighting antioxidants) a week. I also do other good things like almost no meat or chicken (even cutting back will help you if giving up meat will be as hard for you as giving up drinking.) Also, whether it's true or not, some researchers claim certain foods help regulate your insulin (I dont know if that means your sugar may not spike as much when you drink?) You may want to research on the internet. There are organic wines that aren't expensive but I haven't checked yet to see if they are lower in sugar. Also, it's believed that some breast cancers may feed more off sugar from alcohol than others - I think estrogen positive may be more of a guzzler. I know, if you're estrogen positive, hearing that probably just makes you want to pop the cork!  As you see I've looked for everything I can to justify swigging. But this is what I keep tellling myself: If I do a balancing act (wine in place of other sugars, excercise, ya ta da ta da)  I can give myself a break. Does that sound good??

RachelKa

Hey JPB,

I may not be helping to say this - but I'm with you - I can't give up the vino either. I have done everything I  can to justify staying with it because it tastes so good and is so relaxing.  First, I'll say, my oncologist sticks with the studies that say 7 glasses per week of red is ok.  Though I do more like 8 or 9 and in like water glasses. But I water it down just a little and allow myself almost no other sugar other than maybe a serving or two of berries (cancer-fighting antioxidants) a week. I also do other good things like almost no meat or chicken (even cutting back will help you if giving up meat will be as hard for you as giving up drinking.) Also, whether it's true or not, some researchers claim certain foods help regulate your insulin (I dont know if that means your sugar may not spike as much when you drink?) You may want to research on the internet. There are organic wines that aren't expensive but I haven't checked yet to see if they are lower in sugar. Also, it's believed that some breast cancers may feed more off sugar from alcohol than others - I think estrogen positive may be more of a guzzler. I know, if you're estrogen positive, hearing that probably just makes you want to pop the cork!  As you see I've looked for everything I can to justify swigging. But this is what I keep tellling myself: If I do a balancing act (wine in place of other sugars, excercise, ya ta da ta da)  I can give myself a break. Does that sound good??

cary1

I have to say I got really confused in this thread with the references to "poppers" But a quick trip to Google showed me the term could mean something other than I thought. I had no idea, but they sound delicious.

I could go months without drinking before BC, though on vacations I often drank every night. What I miss is having it be a total non-issue. Now that I feel I can't drink (am overweight, 100% estrogen positive, etc.), I really want to. Lately I have been having maybe one or two drinks a month or less. I am probably going overboard a bit with the abstention, but I am worried. I heard one physician speculate on whether the effect could be countered by popping some folic acid at the same time. Anyone else heard that?

elimar86861

I'm posting an excerpt of a post I had on another thread, cause it goes with your topic...

                                      ------------------------------------------------------

The official word around here is this:  "Cutting back on alcohol represents a real step that a breast cancer survivor can take to reduce her risk of recurrence," says Marisa Weiss, M.D., the president and founder of the advocacy group Breastcancer.org. "You don't have to give up alcohol, but use it more carefully and in moderation."

If you care to read a more limiting stance, I found the following article which specifically studies a group of middle-aged women, drinking and cancer:

          http://women.webmd.com/news/20090224/alcohol-linked-to-cancer-risk-in-women

                                     -------------------------------------------------------

p.s. Last year, when I did my radiation, a study showed that one 3-4 oz. glass of wine a day was beneficial in preventing skin breakdown. 

Lemonader

I'm picking up this thread at a really late point, maybe, but:

Lisaattheshore:  What's the source on alcohol being more dangerous for ILC than other BCs?  It seems like I keep HEARING lately that alcohol increases estrogen, but that's such a broad statement.  I keep wanting to know how, in what cases, how much, who's doing the research?  Anything, ANYTHING that will say that I'm not shooting myself in the foot by having a couple drinks a week.  I'm ER+, Stage IV bones-only, IDC and on Aromatase having recently failed on Femara.  Anybody got some words for me?

CrazyKitties

80% of breast cancers are estrogen receptor positve, yet not all 80% of those patients drink. Think about that for a moment! I think we are getting or have been exposed to more endocrine disruptors from our food and environment than anything else.

IllinoisNancy

Got this from a post by a friend on ILC:

I think if we read enough studies we will find support of what we wish to believe.

I found this and it states the complete opposite of what I read just last month...this states that alcohol increases IDC but not lobular or a hot of other breast cancers (read down to the middle with bullets).  I still think cancer is a crap shoot.  I too know too many women who were alcoholics and took HRT and are now in their 60s and still no cancer and other women who were vegetarians, exercised had a perfect BMI and never drank and got cancer....

 Drinking Alcohol and Breast Cancer: Alcohol Consumption as a Risk Factor

The National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism has conducted an exhaustive analysis of the scientific medical evidence regarding alcohol and breast cancer. It concludes that "The effect of alcohol on the risk for breast cancer remains controversial" and describes it as "inconclusive." 1 Consistent with this conclusion, the National Cancer Institute does not include alcohol consumption as a risk factor in its Breast Cancer Risk Assessment Tool. 2
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Additional Information

* Alcohol and Breast Cancer
* Folate, Alcohol & Breast Cancer Risk
* Folate, Alcohol, and Breast Cancer
* Breast Cancer and Folic Acid
* Moderate Drinking and Breast Cancer
* Alcohol and Breast Cancer
* Alcohol and breast cancer in the elderly

...for more: Health Issues

Some studies have found a correlation between alcohol and breast cancer. The association is typically, although not always, described variously as "modest," 3 "minor," 4 "weak," 5 "generally weak," 6 "relatively weak," 7 "small" 8 and "very small." 9 Some studies have found no association between drinking alcohol, especially at moderate levels, and breast cancer. 10 Other scientific studies have found that drinking alcohol in moderation is associated with a reduction of breast cancer risk. 11

The nature and inconsistency of the evidence 12 has called into question the existence of any causal link between moderate alcohol consumption and breast cancer.

Fortunately, the risk of breast cancer is low. "A typical 50-year-old woman has a five-year breast cancer risk of about 3 percent. If her risk jumps by 30 percent, her individual risk is still only about 4 percent." 13 The risk of dying from heart disease is about ten to twelve times greater than dying from breast cancer among women in the U.S.

It appears that drinking alcohol increases the risk of invasive ductal carcinoma, a major form of breast cancer. However, there is no evidence that it increases the risk of

* Inflammatory breast cancer (the most aggressive and dangerous breast cancer), 14
* Basal-like carcinoma breast cancer, 15
* Invasive lobular carcinoma breast cancer, 16
* Medullary carcinoma breast cancer, 17
* Mucinous carcinoma breast cancer, 18
* Pagets disease (cancer) of the nipple, 19
* Phyllodes breast tumors, 20
* Triple-negative breast cancer, 21
* Adenoid cystic carcinoma of the breast, 22
* Papillary carcinoma of the breast, 23
* Ductal carcinoma in situ (DCIS) breast cancer, 24
* Hereditary breast cancer, 25
* Metaplastic breast cancer, 26 or
* Male breast cancer. 27

There is scientific evidence that adequate consumption of Vitamin B-9 (folate or folic acid) may eliminate any risk of breast cancers associated with drinking alcohol. An exhaustive review of the research evidence has found that women who drink alcohol and have a high folate intake are not at increased risk of breast cancers compared to those who abstain from alcohol. 28

An example of the evidence comes for a study of over 17,000 Australian women aged 40-69 over a period of about ten years. Women who consumed 40 grams of alcohol per day (about three drinks) and took 200 micrograms of Vitamin B9 every day, had a lower risk of breast cancers than did women who abstained from alcohol. 29

Foods rich in folate include citrus fruits, citrus juices, dark green leafy vegetables, dried beans, and peas. Most daily multiple-vitamin tablets also contain Vitamin B9. 30

About 50% of women in the U.S. die from cardiovascular heart diseases (CHD) and about 5% die from breast cancer. That means that the average woman's risk of dying from heart disease or stroke is about ten times higher than her risk of dying from breast cancer.

It is important to balance the risk of cardiovascular diseases against the risk of breast cancer. Unless contraindicated, drinking in moderation is associated with better health and greater longevity but there is no best answer for everyone. Therefore, women should consult their health care providers to discuss their risk factors for these and other diseases based on their own specific genetic background, health, environment and life style.

In the words of the National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism,"Individual women, with the help of their physicians, must weigh their potential increased risk for breast cancer against their potential reduced risk for CHD in determining whether alcohol consumption should be reduced." 31

Regardless of a woman's decision, three things that contribute significantly to better health in general are (1) not to smoke, (2) not to be overweight and (3) to exercise regularly.

The National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism (NIAAA) recommends that a woman consume no more than three drinks in any one day and an average of no more than seven drinks per week.

A standard alcoholic drink is:

* A 12-ounce can or bottle of regular beer
* A 5-ounce glass of dinner wine
* A shot (one and one-half ounces) of 80 proof liquor or spirits such as vodka, tequila, or rum either straight or in a mixed drink.

Standard drinks contain equivalent amounts of alcohol. To a breathalyzer, they're all the same.

There is no evidence that any form of alcohol (beer, wine, or liquor - distilled spirits) confers greater health benefits than an other.

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Additional Information on Alcohol and Breast Cancer

* Alcohol and Breast Cancer
Dr. William Waddell describes some of the issues in the relationship between drinking alcohol and the risk of breast cancer.
* Folate, Alcohol & Breast Cancer Risk
A study of 17,000 women has found that women who consume about three drinks per day but take 200 micrograms of folate or folic acid (Vitamin B9) per day have a lower risk of breast cancer than do alcohol abstainers.
* Folate, Alcohol, and Breast Cancer
Women who drink alcohol and have a high folate intake are not at increased risk of breast cancer compared to those who abstain from alcohol, according to an exhaustive review of the research evidence.
* Breast Cancer and Folic Acid
Folic acid appears to offset the risk of breast cancer from alcohol among women who drink in moderation.
* Moderate Drinking and Breast Cancer
Moderate drinking of alcoholic beverages appears to have little effect on women's risk for breast cancer according to research at the Centre for Alcohol Research at the National Institute for Public Health in Denmark.
* Alcohol and Breast Cancer
New data from the ongoing Framingham study indicate that alcohol consumption does not increase the risk of breast cancer.
* Alcohol and breast cancer in the elderly
By the age of 80, breast cancer will affect 8.8 of every 100 women. One drink a day raises the risk about one percentage point.

cookie97

I think I am more confused than I was before. Thanks so much for all info., I think I'll go have a beer now!

Peace and Love,

Edie

RachelKa

Breast cancer and alcohol: the latest studies show somewhat higher risk for recurrence if estorgen positive and have something like 7 glasses a week. As far as the sugar from alcohol, thats a concern, but for any of you out there like me who cant wont give up your wine, cinammon lowers blood glucose (reproted in a Pub Med Journal; if you go to Pub Med and google cinammon and blood glucose you'll find it). So I have half a teaspoon of cinammon in my green tea every day.

Here's an article I wrote on alcohol and breast cancer. There are some links to good info at the end, including a video from Harvard Medical School that sums up the latest research.

Breast cancer and alcohol So what's the verdict, does drinking alcohol increase the chance for breast cancer or for recurrence?  The answer to this question has been flip flopping. Let's look at the research in recent years, on up to today ...For years, to my ears' delight all we heard was, "Drink vino! It's good for your heart!" A large-scale study in 1995 confirmed this advice to be good - at least among healthy participants. The moderate drinkers actually tended to live longest. (The American Society of Clinical Oncology). In case you were wondering, you slid in as a "moderate drinker" if you stayed with half to two drinks a day.I raised a celebratory glass when another study in 2008 showed that resveratrol, a natural substance in wine, suppresses abnormal cells found in most breast cancers. Wow, between jogs through the woods and my cork popping in between, I was doing myself good.But the story on wine's  benefits changed in 2009. Perfect timing for me - the year I got my diagnosis, and was living for the weekend when I could forget about chemo and scans. I could forget about plummeting white blood cells and just nurse my liter and a half of cabernet. The study reported that seven drinks boosts risk for recurrence by 90 percent.  The numbers climb higher for women who are obese and or who smoke - 50 percent and 120 percent higher, respectively. All the participants' breast cancer was estrogen positive. (American Journal of Clinical Oncology). I'd been holding out that since my cancer does not feed off of estrogen, I don't have to worry. But my new oncologist shook his head disapprovingly when I tried to negotiate my liter and a half a week. No, he said; he wants me to cut way back.Check out this video. http://www.ecancermedicalscience.com/tv/video-by-category.asp?play=364&cid=5&scid=0&q= Professor Michelle Holmes, Harvard Medical School, elaborates on what all the latest research means ... In a nutshell, we don't know if quitting drinking altogether will bring the best outcomes. We know of red wine's heart health benefits, and the jury is still out on whether the breast cancer risk outweighs these benefits.Maybe for now we should keep with the old saying ... "Everything in moderation." But if you're like me, and thought eight glasses of wine a week measures out as "moderate," you might want to downsize your scale.Best, Rachel www.1UpOnCancer.com

Anonymous

This is all very interesting.  My oncologist said IF I wanted to have a drink no more than one.  I remember he said a glass of wine was 4 ounces ????????  I mentioned the benefits of red wine, he said grape juice and red grapes have the same benefit!!

Lately the studies show the ER/PR - and the alcohol link is not proved.  WHO knows?

I really quit drinking for 2 years. I am slowing sliding back.  I really enjoy a drink, a beer, a glass of wine.    BUT I do not want to go through cancer again.

 There is a "drinking thread" here.  I have read through a couple of tmes and the gals are pretty funny - it's kind of like going to a party