hi, new to your board...

nine_rugrats

I was stage 1 two yrs ago and then had some shoulder pain a few weeks ago and now am stage 4.  I have numerous bone mets, 1 on my liver and lung.  I have always been "healthy"  I work in a health food store, i eat healthy and avoid things that cause cancer.  I went thru a horrible divorce 4 yrs ago and i know the stress led to the cancer.  Then the few months before being dx with mets i had quite a bit of stress going on, and stopped taking my supplements regularly and was eating horrible.  I believe thats why its back.

So my plan to beat stage 4 is this....

I started doing the Budwig Protocol about a month ago.  I stated itright after i found out the cancer was back.  I also am doing chemo, because even tho at first i wasnt going to, i have to hit it with everything.  If the chemo will kill the cancer i can keep it away.  I also am working on my ph...i believe thats is actually the most important thing.

I have been reading the Bill Henderson books and am thinking about adding the supplements he recommends.  I have no doubt that we can cure cacner ourselves.  My biggest thing is getting my immune system back.  The book i was reading yesterday said it will take me 5 years to get it back to where it can fight cancer again.

 I wanted to introduce myself.  

Tonya

CrunchyPoodleMama

WELCOME... I'm sorry you have to be here but this is a WONDERFUL forum!! I agree with you about stress and cancer... but you're armed with some great tools now to fight it tooth and nail!!

Hindsfeet

nine rugrats, I am so sorry that you have to deal with this again. I agree about stress ...I believe that it is a huge factor in the cause of cancer and diseases.

In regards to the immune system, I'm not sure you can build it up while on chemo. Chemo suppresses your immune system. I've heard that people on chemo can't take immune boosters. I'm not the expert on this so I'm sure someone else on the board has more info.

Anonymous

Tonya - I am also sorry that you have to deal with this again.  It's great that your diet has always been healthy - that will help.  I also agree with you about stress - huge contributor in my opinion.

There is a stage IV woman that has been very successful with both chemo and alternative - sees an onc. and a naturopathic doc and has maintained a good level of health and activity.  I believe she was diagnosed at stage IV and since chemo has had no evidence of disease.

Her name is jeninmichigan - you may want to send her a PM.  I don't know her personally - but remember her name - she posts here once in a while.

Continue taking good care of yourself!

althea

Tonya, so sorry to hear of your stage iv dx.  I haven't read Bill Henderson yet but have heard good things about his writing.  One author I particularly liked is Dr Ray Strand.  I typed out some notes on his book before I took it back to the library.  He is a doctor who believed in the training he received, until he was unable to help his own wife overcome fibromyalgia.  She reached the point of being bedridden until she started taking supplements, and she found her way back to health.  Dr Strand's observations of his own patients going through chemo show that taking vitamin C during treatment was highly beneficial for his patients. If you want to find that thread, I think the title I gave it was 'free radicals, stress and antioxidants'. In a nutshell, a lot of doctors, whose nutritional knowledge consists of a few lectures during school, will say not to take vitamin C based on the simple basis that they don't know, and don't care to find out, what the interaction might be with the chemo.  

nine_rugrats

Thanks for the welcome.  I dont understand how drs can totally dismiss that we can cure our cancer with nutrition and supplements.  My dr said i can do what i am doing but then informed me that it wont cure the cancer.  How can anyone deny thatthere are things that we can do??  I wish i would of been more informed before it came back but i am glad i know now. 

I intend to be cancer free and live a long life.  I know my biggest thing is to be fixing my immune system.  I have read good things about IP6.   I have some i had bought a few months ago, and am going to research if i can take it with the chemo...Does anyone know??

vespersparrow

Hi nine_rugrats, are you in a place where you can find a naturopath to give you Iscador?   It's mistletoe extract.  It's an immune-system boosting adjuvant treatment that can be used along with chemo. I hear it's extremely popular in Europe but not so well known in the US.  Don't know about the IP-6, but that's something else a good oncological naturopath can help you with based on the particular type of chemo you are using, and you might want to add one to your medical team if you haven't already.

chillipadi

Hi Nine. Be careful with the Budwig protocol (BP). I did it for 14 months, starting from March 2008, and my Stage 2 cancer became Stage 3 during this period. From just one almond-sized lump, the cancer spread all over my right breast and by the end of the 14 months my breast was covered with lumps as big as lemons and oranges. The tumors poured with blood daily and were foul-smelling.

Still, I persisted with the BP, as I was influenced by the BP Yahoo group (they're almost religious in their fervour). I was ER+/PR+ then, and the high estrogen content of the flaxseed as well as all the negative aspects of dairy (cottage cheese) clearly did me great harm. I tried to alert other board members of the Yahoo group several times but my feedback was either censored or dismissed by the moderator. Guess I was rocking the boat.

I notice that several fervent supporters of BP on that Yahoo group took a turn for the worse. Wando Cline, for instance, was one. Maybe it was the BP, maybe it was something else. Who knows? For me, I'm staying away from flax+cottage cheese (FOCC).

Since stopping BP and taking oral chemo, Tamoxifen and then an aromatase inhibitor (Femara), the tumor mass cleared up within a year. Unfortunately, some new lesions appeared around 6 weeks ago. The initial results of the biopsy indicate that the remaining cancer cells now seem to be Her2 and I am no longer ER+/PR+, just like you. My onco will confirm this soon.

As for IP6 + Inositol, I started taking the powder form a week ago, so it's early days yet. Apparently, it has shown in vitro and in vivo to be an angiogenesis inhibitor as well as help revert cancer cells back to normal. Here's some reading:

http://her2support.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=229181  http://carcin.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/carcin;25/11/2115

We're in this together Nine! You've got great support here. 

3jaysmom

hi guys, my 1st time posting here.. i am so new at natural stuff its pathetic  !! where have i been?  only reason ive started coming around, is i ended up with a nervous breakdown, (for real) dx, and everything from trying 3 ALS, refusing tamoxifen... now, am trying to fine good natural thingas that will accomplish what i need ..less estrogen.. i had dblmx, 22 sessions of chemo; all the "traditional" stuff, would still be there, if i could tolerate it!! my onco is all 4 natural, but the 2 things she said was stay away from 2 much dairy, no flaxseed, which i was taking before bc..hmmm and no soy products. ive been no soy 4 many yrs.. still aggresive cancer, et al.. who knowsanymore!!! we all have 2 figure it out for ourselves, hope and pray..theyre plenty stage IV ladies i see fighting, and getting good results.  i dont want to live forever, i have too many health issues, and i watched mymom pass, it was rough, my sister is now struggling..so, i dont want a long life, i want a full, vibrant one. thats my goal..obvviously, ALS were not going to give me that. I have multiple sclerosis, have many strokes from that.. and i still have time with my grandkids, and they r why i still fight so hard to find alternatives. i might sound like a downer, i dont mean to, im not like many of u girls, im 60, and not in great hrealth to begin with... im just more about ive lived a good life, and want to continue to ..my life has not been great with the choices ive made so far.. of course, its all tricky.. anyway, good luck to you all, and God Bless !  3jaysmom

nine_rugrats

I am on the BP yahoo group but i dont take what all they say as fact.  I actually email a few people who i guess are "afraid" to go against the group.  But they do BP and chemo and have done very well.  They usually say the reason for getting worse is not following it exactly, ect.  I do believe in it, but i believe in alot of other things too.  Thank you for telling me your story, cause i have been looking for people who didnt do well on it. I am feeling good on it so far, but i guess we will see what my next scan shows too.

SO,  Do you think IP6 is okay during chemo, i am going to talk to my dr about it.  I also am adding calcium, magnessium, and D3.  He had said those things are okay to take.  I am hoping it will help with the bone pain. 

Have you read anything by Bill Henderson?  He makes alot of sense to me.  I ordered the susanne summers book and am anxious to read it too.

Tonya

chillipadi

Tonya, it's interesting that you've been told that the reason people get worse on BP is because they don't follow it exactly, because some of the people on the Yahoo group who are apparently doing well are doing both BP and chemo (as you've mentioned) and chemo is forbidden on BP. Supplements are also disallowed, yet many people doing BP take them. You're also not supposed to mix protocols, yet people do this.

There are poster kids for BP, like Wanda Cline, who did almost textbook-perfect BP programs, yet their cancer worsened. We'll never know how many died trusting the BP program, but I read posts on the BP Yahoo group which showed that this definitely happened. Quite a few posters were very angry and felt betrayed. Curiously, it's difficult to find those posts now. Wonder why?

I followed the BP with great enthusiasm, shunning chemo, radio, and supplements completely for 14 months. I made and ate sauerkraut, exercised every day, got plenty of Vitamin D etc, yet the cancer grew relentlessly. Nothing stopped it until I gave up BP and agreed to try low-dose oral chemo, Tamox and subsequently A1s. Of course I continued with a healthy diet and lifestyle, juicing daily, and taking herbs. I started taking supplements again.

I feel I have a responsibility to warn people not to look to BP as the magic bullet, and that their condition can actually deteriorate on BP. There's no hidden agenda. I really regret the 14 months I wasted on BP. My chest was absolutely ravaged and mutilated during that time, and I suffered terrible pain. I could have avoided becoming an advanced Stage 3 had I not stubbornly stuck with BP alone (you're not supposed to mix, remember?).

IP6 + Inositol is supposed to work synergistically with chemo, making the outcome more effective while alleviating side effects. 

Don't know anything about Bill Henderson, but I've read that there are people who felt his protocol didn't work for them.

Frankly, which alternative therapies REALLY WORK? Other than hearsay, anecdotes and glowing testimonials on sites promoting certain programs or supplements, where's the concrete proof? Does somebody have an answer to this? If there's solid, convincing proof (like data), I'll stop the chemo and Ais immediately and switch to the alternative in a heartbeat. 

nine_rugrats

I know, i tried to find things saying people didnt do good on it and couldnt.  I told my dr about it and he said its fine since its just healthy food and flax oil.  I am er- so the flax oil shouldnt be an issue and i read to take flax oil if her2++ cause it helps the herceptin work. 

I never could be able to do just alternative treatments...i dont think i would have the faith to do that.  That said i believe in them, but also believe in traditional treatments.  So i know i am not following it 100% but i believe in what i am doing is working.

I try to just ignore the emails that bashes chemo.  Also, there are a few women with bc and they say the lump hasnt grown, but i had my lump for at least 1 year and it didnt grow and stayed stage one.  Then after i did all the tx it came back like crazy stage 4 so i think there is something to avoiding tx cause i think it does cause it to spread...but who is to know who will stay stable and who will spread and when its your life you cant take chances.

I am working on balancing my ph, i think that  is something that is a must