What Your Doctor May Not Tell you about BC

MBJ

I am in the middle of reading this book by Dr. Lee (see subject above) and I thought it would be most helpful to create a new topic on it since so many women are asking questions that this amazing book can help you with!

rreynolds1

Hi MBJ,

I read that book myself and found it REALLY helpful.  He reinforced that we need to take our healing into our own hands.  I am using much of the information to guide my self care and to work with my traditional doctors.  I also enjoyed Anti-Cancer.

Roseann

Nan56143

Dear Mary...

I have read and re-read this book, and as I have said in many other posts, I ordered 6 copies to give to 4 of my daughters, 1 for me and 1 for a dear friend. Lori of course has already read it, and although I could have bought Lee's book on preimenopause or menopause, (all daughters are at that stage), I felt it was much more important for them to read this one, due to the fact that their sister was dx with TNBC.No I am not getting any compensation by continuing to tell women to read this book!! Had Lori read this book many years ago, perhaps she would have not been dx with TNBC.

Dr. Lee's progesterone cream was never on the market until after he died. He did not want to compromise his standing in the medical community. I know I have been questioned even about the saliva testing, and to that I say...Dr. David Zava , a biochemist, spent his life researching BC, and yes he has his own labs, and he has proven that the saliva testing is the true testing for hormones. If a person Googles saliva testing for invitro fertilization, you will see what I mean.

Here is a link from a new website and this article was taken from a transcript of a seminar by Dr. John Lee.

http://www.yourlifesource.com/progesterone-breast-cancer.htm

MBJ

Thank you both! 

Nan, you are the reason I purchased this book!  It is quite amazing and had I read it 10 years ago I might not have been in this position either. 

I think it's important information all women should know regarding BC.  I will try and boost this as often as possible to keep it in the current topics-Women need to know!

Anonymous

Nan:

Dr. Lee's progesterone cream was on the market 20 years ago. At that time they were promoting it as being a cure for osteoporsosis.  What do they say it cures or treats now?

Susie

MsBliss

Allow me to interject here, as I just stumbled upon this thread.  The science evolves--progesterone does help with osteoporosis, and it did 20 years ago as well.  It was this data that Wyeth Ayerst used to reformulate progesterone into a patentable progestin to be marketed as HRT with the upmarket potential to treat osteoporosis and osteopenia. As we have learned, progestins are not really good for us.....not the same for progesterone.

Emory University used progesterone in a clinical study to reduce brain dysfunction after traumatic brain injury.  

Anyway, they are not claiming it cures anything--they are saying it is part of the puzzle, together with other factors, that is protective of breast health.  In fact, big pharma has patented Panzem, which is 2 methoxyestradiol, a natural metabolite of estriol and estrodiol, A BHRT!, that is protective for breast health.   Big Pharma actually has the nerve to patent a molecule that our bodies make already.  Proof that natually occuring hormones are beneficial, but they will keep this on the shelf for a while....they have to figure out how to profit from it whilst not undermining the hrt products that are already being sold.

Janeluvsdogs

Drs Lee and Zava have produced a great and well-documented book. They have consistently said, it doesn't matter where you get your progesterone cream so long as it meets the minimum specifications for USP progesterone.

Thanks, Nan and MBJ, for posting and reposting about the Lee and Zava book!

I'm sure people who haven't read it will continue to chime in. 

althea

I recently received this book as a gift and I'm loving it so far.  It's been on my list for a long time, and my library doesn't have it. 

cp418

http://www.emaxhealth.com/1020/98/32966/progesterone-triggers-breast-cancer-promoting-genes.html

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/161348.php

Anonymous

Kinda funny that the headlines would be translated to progesterone causes cancer. Easy to be mislead if you don't read the study. Somebody on one of the other forums analyzed the study when it came out.

Morgan513

Hate to burst your  bubbles but I was doing the Progesterone cream and was subsequently diagnosed with TNBC.  Go figure...

Mountains1day

Thanks cp418, the articles you have provided explain the possibilities as to why I could have put myself in high risk for breast cancer.  After long time use of Progesterone, I did get breast cancer! 

Nan56143

And I am using Dr. Lee's progesterone cream specifically for treating my osteoporosis. I have noticed a difference already, and have only been using it since the beginning of May, was off it for 4 days, and now back on it again. I am 69 years old. I take no pharmaceutical drugs...none!

I was on that horrible Fosomax for over 7 years, and also on that "known to cause cancer" pharmaceutical HRT for over 12 years. Hey, I didn't know at the time what these da** drugs were doing to my body. Ignorence is bliss, and the drug companies made it a point to keep that info quiet. The night that Dan Rather reported on the findings of the WHI, I threw my HRT in the trash.

Apparently millions of other women were/are not aware of how they could be doing more harm than good either. I am one of the "lucky" ones, as I have not been dx with cancer, and as yet have not developed the dead jaw syndrome, or esophageal cancer, which are just two of the side effects. I still shake my head when I read of a woman taking either the bisphosphonates or the HRT. The problem lies with the fact that the bisphosphonates stay in your body for 10-20 years, continuing to do damage, and the HRT..known cancer causing drugs.

I know I read that Dr. Lee's progesterone cream was not avaiable to the general public until after his death. However, his family had been using it for about a decade. In this book there is not even a reference for the ProgesterAll cream available from John Lee M.D. Solutions, LLC, but there are references for other progesterone creams which apparently met Dr. Lee's criteria/specifications.

I so wish that I had read Lee's book about menopause.

mathteacher

Morgan, I see you didn't read the article.

Mountains, the majority of people who get breast cancer do NOT take progesterone. So, according to your logic NOT taking breast progesterone caused their cancer?

Nan56143

paragraphs from the links provided...and it is the decline in the use of pharmaceutical HRT..not BHRT or NHRT..It is not "progesterone" as they have stated here.

cancer rates have declined with less use of progesterone hormone therapy following menopause. The research could lead to better breast cancer treatments, because now scientists undestanding how genes act in response to progesterone that to promote tumor growth in breast tissue.

MSU News

Haslam noted that as the link between progesterone and increased breast cancer risk was identified in recent years, women have been taking less hormone therapy after menopause and the rate of breast cancer in older women has gone down.

edited to add this link...and yes progesterone is mentioned in the link which you just provided ..but..it does not explain how progesterone provides protection.

http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2006/apr2006_report_progesterone_01.htm 

edited once again to add this link..

http://www.yourlifesource.com/progesterone-breast-cancer.htm

cp418

Here is another more recent article where progesterone is mentioned.

 http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/187852.php

mollyann

This page cites 20 medical articles that show the benefits of progesterone. Also a video and great powerpoint!

<<To understand natural progesterone's role in breast health, it is essential to
read up and understand how progesterone works. Because of misconceptions
about progesterone, patients often must out-read their practitioners who have
been mis-educated about progesterone.

Progesterone research began to emerge in the mid 90s although it had been
studied long before. A  lot more research has been done that many doctors
are not aware of. Luckily, many doctors are aware of the research and have
used progesterone widely in their practices.

Estrogen is the "proliferative" hormone. One of its functions is to make
things grow such as when the endometrial lining builds up in preparation
for conception. Progesterone is the "antiproliferative" hormone. It
opposes/constrains estrogen in very specific ways. See the links below.

As we age, our progesterone begins waning first--a decade or more
before estrogen wanes. Here is where the so-called estrogen
dominance concept comes in. Our bodies make too little progesterone in
relationship to estrogen. This is when we become most vulnerable to
breast cancer. But women may have life long progesterone deficiencies
as well:  irregular periods, PMS, miscarriage, mood swings, blood sugar
problems and other symptoms may reflect too little progesterone.

Watch video of Steven Hotze, MD'
Watch Henry Linder, MD's  Powerpoint slides.

The annotated bibliography below of progesterone research goes into
deeper detail and will document the workings of progesterone to
provide a broader understanding and scientific documentation.
Campagnoli C, Abba C, Ambroggio S, Peris C.
Pregnancy, progesterone and progestins in relation to breast cancer risk.
J Steroid Biochem Mol Biol 2005; 97(5):441-50.  
The authors review recent findings that show that the production of progesterone
during pregnancy and the use of bioidentical progesterone in hormone therapy do
not increase breast cancer risk, and can even protect against the development of
breast cancer.

Kaaks R, et al.
Serum sex steroids in premenopausal women and breast cancer risk within
the European Prospective Investigation into Cancer and Nutrition (EPIC).  
J Natl Cancer Inst 2005; 97:755-65.  
In this large multicenter study, higher serum progesterone levels were associated
with a significant reduction in breast cancer risk.

Fournier A, Berrino F, Riboli E, Avenel V, Clavel-Chapelon F.  
Breast cancer risk in relation to different types of hormone replacement
therapy in the E3N-EPIC cohort.  Int J Cancer 2005; 114(3):448-54.  
Combined HRT with estrogen (either oral or transdermal) and synthetic progestins
was found to carry a significantly increased risk of breast cancer compared with
estrogens plus oral micronized progesterone.  In fact, no increase in breast
cancer risk was seen in the estrogen plus oral micronized progesterone group
compared with estrogen alone.  This large multicenter study therefore suggests
that there is a dramatic difference between the effects of bioidentical
progesterone versus synthetic progestins on breast cancer risk.

Missmer SA, Eliassen AH, Barbieri RL, Hankinson SE.
Endogenous estrogen, androgen, and progesterone concentrations and
breast cancer risk among postmenopausal women.  J Natl Cancer Inst 2004; 96
(24):1856-65.  
Blood progesterone levels were found not to be related to breast cancer risk in
this first study to investigate this in postmenopausal women. The occurrence of
progesterone receptor positive tumors was the tumor type most strongly affected
by all the circulating steroid hormones measured except for progesterone.  Higher
levels of endogenous estrogens and androgens were significantly correlated with
increasing breast cancer incidence.  This suggests that circulating natural
progesterone does not increase breast cancer risk.

Malet C, Spritzer P, Guillaumin D, Kuttenn F.
Progesterone effect on cell growth, ultrastructural aspect and estradiol
receptors of normal human breast epithelial (HBE) cells in culture. J Ster
Biochem Mol Biol 2002; 73: 171-181.
In a culture system, progesterone was found to have an inhibitory effect on breast
cell growth. When given following estradiol (E2), it limited the stimulatory effect of
E2 on cell growth.

Desreux J, Kebers F, Noel A, Francart D, Van Cauwenberge H, Heinen V,
Thomas JL, Bernard AM, Paris J, Delansorne R, Foidart JM.
Progesterone receptor activation- an alternative to SERMs in breast cancer.
Eur J Cancer 2000 Sep;36 Suppl 4:S90-1.
This review emphasizes progesterone's role in supporting healthy breast
homeostasis and opposing the proliferative effects of estradiol in the breast,
unlike synthetic progestins.

Plu-Bureau G, Le MG, Thalabard JC, Sitruk-Ware R, Mauvais-Jarvis P.
Percutaneous progesterone use and risk of breast cancer: results from a
French cohort study of premenopausal women with benign breast disease.
Cancer Detect Prev 1999;23(4):290-6.
This cohort study followed 1150 premenopausal French women diagnosed with
benign breast disease. Topical progesterone cream, a common treatment for
mastalgia in Europe, had been prescribed to 58% of the women. Follow-up
accumulated 12,462 person-years. There was no association noted between
progesterone cream use and breast cancer risk. Furthermore, women who had
used both progesterone cream and an oral progestogen had a significant
decrease in breast cancer risk (RR= 0.5) as compared to women who did not use
progesterone cream. There was no significant difference in the risk of breast
cancer in percutaneous progesterone users versus nonusers among oral
progestogen users. These results suggest there are no deleterious effects caused
by percutaneous progesterone use in women with benign breast disease.

Formby B, Wiley TS.
Bcl-2, survivin and variant CD44 v7-v10 are downregulated and p53 is
upregulated in breast cancer cells by progesterone: inhibition of cell growth
and induction of apoptosis. Mol Cell Biochem 1999 Dec;202(1-2):53-61.
This study sought to elucidate the mechanism by which progesterone inhibits the
proliferation of breast cancer cells. Utilizing breast cancer cell lines with and
without progesterone receptors (T47-D and MDA-231, respectively) in vitro, the
authors looked at apoptosis (programmed cell death) in response to progesterone
exposure as a possible mechanism. The genetic markers for apoptosis - p53, bcl-2
and surviving, were utilized to determine whether or not the cells underwent
apoptosis. The results demonstrated that progesterone does produce a strong
antiproliferative effect on breast cancer cell lines containing progesterone
receptors, and induced apoptosis. The relatively high levels of progesterone
utilized were similar to those seen during the third trimester of human pregnancy.

Lin VC, Ng EH, Aw SE, Tan MG, Ng EH, Chan VS, Ho GH.
Progestins inhibit the growth of MDA-MB-231 cells transfected with
progesterone receptor complementary DNA. Clin Cancer Res 1999 Feb;5(2):395-
403.
Progesterone is mainly thought to exert its effects via the estrogen-dependent
progesterone receptor (PR), the effects of which may be overshadowed by the
presence of estrogen. In order to study the independent effects of progesterone
on breast cancer cell lines, PR expression vectors were transfected into a PR and
ER negative cell line (MDA-MB-231). The growth of these cells was then studied in
response to progesterone and several progestins. Progesterone was found to
significantly inhibit DNA synthesis and cell growth in a dose-dependant fashion.
The results of this study indicate that progesterone and progestins independent of
estrogen have an antiproliferative effect on breast cancer cells via the
progesterone receptor. This suggests a possible role in the treatment of PR
negative breast cancer via re-activation of the PR receptor.

Formby B, Wiley TS.
Progesterone inhibits growth and induces apoptosis in breast cancer cells:
inverse effects on Bcl-2 and p53. Ann Clin Lab Sci 1998 Nov-Dec;28(6):360-9.
This study explored the mechanism by which progesterone inhibits breast cancer
cell proliferation (growth). In progesterone receptor positive T47-D breast cancer
cells, the mechanism of apoptosis appeared to be through the regulation of the
genes p53 and bcl-2 by progesterone. These genes control the apoptotic process.
It was demonstrated that at progesterone levels that approximate the third
trimester of pregnancy, there was a strong antiproliferative effect in at least 2
breast cancer cell lines.

Foidart JM, Colin C, Denoo X, Desreux J, Beliard A, Fournier S, de Lignieres B.
Estradiol and progesterone regulate the proliferation of human breast
epithelial cells. Fertil Steril 1998 May;69(5):963-9.
In this double-blind randomized study, to evaluate the effects of estrogen and
progesterone on normal breast cells, 40 postmenopausal women received daily
topical application of a gel containing either placebo, estradiol, progesterone, or
estradiol + progesterone for two weeks prior to esthetic breast surgery or the
excision of a benign breast lesion. The results showed that increased estrogen
concentration increased the number of cycling epithelial cells, whereas exposure
to progesterone for 14 days reduced the estrogen-induced proliferation of normal
breast epithelial cells.

Pasqualini JR, Paris J, Sitruk-Ware R, Chetrite G, Botella J.
Progestins and breast cancer. J Steroid Biochem Mol Biol 1998 Apr;65(1-6):225-
35.
This review article outlines the many functions of progestogens in hormone-
dependent and independent breast cancer and suggests new clinical applications
for their use in the treatment of breast cancer.

Mohr PE, Wang DY, Gregory WM, Richards MA, Fentiman IS.
Serum progesterone and prognosis in operable breast cancer.
British Journal of Cancer 1996;73:1532-1533.
Higher blood levels of progesterone measured during surgical treatment of breast
cancers were associated with significantly better survival, especially in women
who were node-positive (P<0.01). There was no significant relationship between
estradiol levels and survival. This study demonstrated that a higher level of
progesterone at time of excision is associated with improved prognosis in women
with operable breast cancer.

Chang KJ, et al.
Influences of percutaneous administration of estradiol and progesterone on
human breast epithelial cell cycle in vivo. Fertil Steril 1995; 63(4):785-91.
The effect of transdermal estradiol (1.5 mg), transdermal progesterone (25 mg),
and combined transdermal estradiol and progesterone (1.5 mg and 25 mg) on
human breast epithelial cell cycles was evaluated in vivo. Results demonstrated
that estradiol significantly increases cell proliferation, while progesterone
significantly decreases cell replication below that observed with placebo.
Transdermal progesterone was also shown to reduce estradiol-induced
proliferation.

Laidlaw IJ, Clarke RB.
The proliferation of normal breast tissue implanted into athymic nude mice is
stimulated by estrogen, but not by progesterone. Endocrinology Jan 1995;136
(1):164-71.
Normal human breast tissue was implanted subcutaneously into athymic nude
mice. The mice were then treated with estradiol or progesterone such that serum
levels approximated those seen in normal menstruating women.
Immunocytochemical measures were made of proliferative activity and steroid
receptor expression of the tissue implants. It was found that physiologic levels of
estradiol significantly stimulated the proliferation of human breast epithelial cells
and increased progesterone receptor expression 10-20-fold. Progesterone failed to
affect proliferation alone or after estradiol priming.

Nappi C, Affinito P.  
Double-blind controlled trial of progesterone vaginal cream treatment for
cyclical mastodynia in women with benign breast disease. J Endocrin Invest
1994;15(11):801-6.
Eighty regularly menstruating women with mastodynia were studied to evaluate
the clinical effectiveness of vaginally administered micronized progesterone.
Subjects were randomly assigned to one of two groups, with all participating in a
control cycle prior to treatment. One group received 4 grams of vaginal cream
containing 2.5% natural progesterone for six cycles from day 19 to day 25 of the
cycle. The other group was similarly treated with placebo. Both subjective
reporting on a daily basis and clinical examination revealed a significant
reduction in breast pain, defined as 50% reduction, in 64.9% of subjects receiving
progesterone and 22.2% of subjects receiving placebo. Effects of breast
nodularity were not significant. No side effects were detected.

Mauvais-Jarvis P, Kuttenn F, Gompel A.
Antiestrogen action of progesterone in breast tissue. Horm Res 1987;28(2-4):
212-8.
In a review of international literature on the cellular effects of progesterone on
both normal breast cells and breast cancer cell lines, the authors conclude that
most data indicate progesterone and progestins have an antiestrogenic effect on
the breast, as reflected in the decrease in estradiol receptor content, the
decrease in cell proliferation, and an increase in a marker of cell differentiation,
17 beta-hydroxysteroid activity, which is mediated by the progesterone receptor.

Cowan LD, Gordis L, Tonascia JA, et al.
Breast cancer incidence in women with a history of progesterone deficiency.
American Journal of Epidemiology 1981; 114:209. ,083.
Infertile women were followed for 14-34 years. Those who were deficient in
progesterone showed a fivefold greater incidence of premenopausal breast
cancer.

Mountains1day

mathteacher,

According to my logic, I believe in large scientific studies that strongly indicate prolonged use of Progesterone may contribute to higher breast cancer risk for some women. 

Nan56143

Holly crapolla Mollyann!!

You know what? There are probably thousands and thousands more articles, and yet I feel we are banging our heads against a brick wall. However, I still respect another person's choice, just as you.

cp418

Another critical fact to consider is pre versus post menopause status.  This is very complex and what may be okay for one person may be harmful to another.  Basically one size does not fit all.  Simply proceed with caution like with any treatment.

Mountains1day

Seriously, there is much need for accessing more updated and credible information.  Just because a celebrity is touting something, doesn't mean we should buy into it.  As for Dr. Lee, is he still living? 

mollyann

Mountains,

So you are saying The Journal of Steroid Biochemistry and Molecular Biology, The International Journal of Cancer, The Journal of the National Cancer Institute, The European Journal of Cancer,  Clinical Cancer Research, The British Journal of Cancer, Endocrinology, The Journal of Endocinology Investigation, Hormone Research, and the American Epidemiology are not credible?

Morgan513

I think Mountains is really saying that you should be very cautious.  We all want to believe that there is a magic solution to this beast.  I told you my situation.  And frankly, even if I did not do the progesterone cream pre-BC, I would not do it now.  No way would I fiddle with my hormones.  I wouldn't want to take any chances. 

But, good luck with whatever your choices are but please be careful.

Mountains1day

Mollyann,

Of course not, all those you have mentioned are certainly credible resources.  I have read much about Progesterone use as a preventative for breast cancer and some information is good and some is not so good.  Bottom line is that it may make sense for some but not for others.  Most importantly, shifting through all that we have, is making the right choice for ourselves knowing the risks verses the benefits.

Would you know of any well conducted studies on the effect of Progesterone on long term out comes on women who have had hormone positive breast cancer?  I just haven't read anywhere evidence points to favor Progesterone use in women with HR positive breast cancer.  

Kathy044

Still the findings in this new study are most interesting, at least to me, as I had a later menopause having my final period when I was age 54 (and I do think that timing had something to do with my breast cancer, as epidemiological studies have shown).

Here's another news source about the new study, note they are talking about ovarian progesterone, as natural as you can get progesterone, not the weaker otc skin cremes which are probably harmless for the majority of women.

http://www.healthzone.ca/health/yourhealth/women%27shealth/womenandcancer/article/804861--toronto-scientists-uncover-potential-key-to-breast-cance. 

I read a library copy of John R. Lee and David Zava's book "What your doctor....BC" shortly after it was published in 2002. I'd heard much about Dr. Lee on the MENOPAUS (no 'e' on the end) mailing list . This was 1995, some women on the list were selling the creme.  David Zava, the author of the first part "What your doctor may .....breast cancer" occasionally contributed information and answered questions on the list which is why I was curious to see what he had to say in the book. 

 I wasn't able to find the part showing that taking progesterone would be in any way helpful in preventing cancer btw, must have missed it somewhere in between the part where Zava said it would be explained later in the book and the part where Zava said it was explained earlier. It wasn't in the chapter about breast cancer written by the outside BC researcher at least I don't think so. 

mollyann

Mountains, have you read the 2008 Christante et al. study showing hormone takers (any kind) before diagnosis (like you) have a much lower chance of dying in the first ten years than non hormone-takers? It didn't matter if they were receptor positive or negative, they survived dramatically longer?  This should be very encouraging news for you.

If you are sincerely interested, I'll look it up, but if you've made up your mind to what the "bottom line" is then I won't go to the trouble.

And yes, there are 20 some studies of women taking hormones after diagnosis but they are from different countries and used different kinds of hormones.

I'm not interested in persuading anyone to do anything. I'm just interested in getting the correct information out there.

MBJ

I am so glad that at least we have sparked a conversation here.  I used an over the counter (i.e. harmless) progesterone cream prior to getting BC,too.  However, I think I wasn't getting nearly the amount that I needed. I was getting no where close to the amount recommended in the book.  Who knows, maybe if I had found this book, taken the right doseage, maybe I wouldn't be here lying in bed recuperating from surgery for BC.  I don't believe there is a cure all for BC.  However, there is so much our doctors don't know.  They don't communicate with each other.  That's why I go to an integrative dr. because at least he isn't a my way or the highway kind of dr. like I had at City of No Hope.  I am not here to persuade but to put the information out there so that others can choose to make informed choices. 

Mountains1day

Mollyann,

The Christante study in this regard, as I read it, the significant survival rates @ 10 years correlated w/node negative disease (which is already significant) and it was a very small study. 

Would you at least agree that the connection between the use of natural progesterone and a heightened risk for breast cancer is an area that still needs to be studied in future research?  Or is it your "bottom line" that natural progesterone therapy benifits every woman? 

The research that has been carried out to date, suggests the possibility of an increase risk in some trials, while the results of other trials show a reduced risk.  Go figure.  This matter clearly needs further investigation and it is hoped that future studies will help clear things up.  

mollyann

Mountains, you need to read the full text study and its precessor study by Schuetz to clarify which groups were matched and its relationship to many previous studies.

I'm not clear about your question using the phrase, "bottom line." I would never use that expression with respect to my own thinking, and don't quite see how you would use it to prematurely draw a conclusion based on unnamed evidence. I've certainly never made any claims about progesterone benefiting anybody. I've just presented the findings which people more educated than I have made. People can draw their own conclusions regarding the preponderance of evidence supporting progesterone. More studies are always encouraged.

Your third paragraph has me stumped. What studies are you referring to regarding increased risk with respect to progesterone supplementation. I have never found one but I would be delighted if you would educate me with citations.

Many thanks.

Mountains1day

Mollyann,

You are entitled to your own opinions, and I do respect them, but please don't make this a match of who can supply the most updated information.  As someone has already pointed out, there must be thousands of studies/information out there regarding the pros and cons of progesterone use with and without a breast cancer diagnosis. 

My position on this forum has been steadfast regarding the much controversy and confusion over this information and what to do with it regarding progesterone use and BHRT.  Again, I'm not against them, just would love to read about clear concise information based on well conducted studies. We can go over every single study you have credited from all the groups you have listed that support the benefits of progesterone/BHRT use and we could do the same that support the dangers/risks for others and the million dollar answer is:  None of us know because the jury is still out.  That is the context in which I refer to as my bottom line.  Didn't mean to offend anyone.

Like I said, I have read about the Christante study in the text you have noted.  Geez, I'm not an expert either, but how many other groups can there be in this study of less than 300 participants whose significant overall survival prognosis at 10 years could have been due to the fact they were node negative to begin with. 

"The safety of taking progesterone creams and supplements with or without progesterone receptors (but particularly w/progesterone receptors present) is unknown.  Sometimes even a little hormone can cause problems, including stimulation of breast tissue; whereas a higher dose may be therapeutic.  In other situations, its the other way around.  Very confusing!  The whole hormone controversy is not worked out, I'd err on the side of caution."  Marisa Weiss, M.D.

MBJ

Well, it seems that if you read the book answers to all of these being debated here will become more clear.  Many confuse progestin with progesterone!