Reality Check -- Fruits + Veggies do little to prevent cancer

LJ13-2

It would be nice if carrots and strawberries could prevent cancer.

However, there is little evidence that it makes a difference:

April 6, 2010 -- Eating a diet rich in fruits and vegetables is good for many reasons, but don't expect it to offer much protection against cancer, according to a new study.

The researchers aren't saying the fruits and vegetables have no effect. "Fruits and vegetables are likely to be protective, although the effect is not likely to be large," says study author Paolo Boffetta, MD, MPH, deputy director of The Tisch Cancer Institute at Mount Sinai School of Medicine in New York.

 http://www.webmd.com/cancer/news/20100406/fruits-vegetables-little-cancer-protection

3monstmama

Which clearly means only one thing:

Eat More Chocolate 

dlb823

Interesting article, but a couple of things make me not agree with the conclusion. 

First, the median F&V intake was a measly 2-1/4 servings, so some study participants took in even less than that.  Also, there was an observed 3 to 4% reduction of risk by going up just a minimal 1-1/2 servings to a total of 3-3/4 servings, which is less than half of what any decent nutritionist would recommend these days, which is closer to 7-9, and sometimes as many as 12.  So if you figured another bump for each 1-1/2 serving increase up to the now recommended 7 to 9 or more servings of F&V per day, you'd be getting up into the double digits re. reduction risk, which, added to the 30% benefit of exercise, for example, begins to get significant.

Another thing not taken into consideration is organic vs. chemically-treated produce, so some of the potential benefits of eating F&V could be nullified by ingesting toxic agricultural chemicals. 

Just some thoughts, although I have no problem with eating chocolate in moderation.   Deanna

Nordy

Excellent points dlb

dlb823

Still thinking about this article, and I think you'd also have to ask, if those study participants were only eating a median of 2.5 servings of F&V per day, what the heck else were they eating?  Tons of animal protein?  Baked goods made with processed white flour?   Chemical-laden packaged foods?  What kinds of fats?   I mean, if they're eating so few F&Vs, what are they getting the bulk of their calories from??? 

CrunchyPoodleMama

Great points, Deanna; I was thinking the same thing re: the low median amount as well as the fact that they didn't distinguish between organic vs. non-organic.

Kit10s

Another (better known, tho) Check: Animal Protein is disatrous to human health! 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/kathy-freston/a-cure-for-cancer-eating_b_298282.html

What to do what to do?? I've gone vegan x 3 years.

3monstmama

All good points.

While I am unlikely to ever go vegan, I am fully in favor of decreasing meat consumption for environmental as well as ethical, let alone health, reasons.  And I do think that any study that might be based on such a small consumption of veggies has some issues.  That is way way under the amount that is recommended for normal health.

That said, chocolate is from a fruit. . . .

MariannaLaFrance

Well, I am probably now living evidence of that. I have eaten organically for 15+ years, and aside from moments of weakness during pregnancy, I have usually been a lean meat, high vegetable eater.  When I found out my diagnosis, I jokingly told my husband that I should have spent the last 15 years of my life eating ding dongs and drinking Mountain Dew on the couch instead of yoga, running, ballet and great eating habits!  Ugh! Life is not fair, that's for sure. My friends who are not as health conscious as me all tell me they felt doomed when I got the diagnosis, since I was the beacon of healthful living.....

althea

The researchers also aren't saying anything about the fruits and vegetables being organically grown or not.  Marianna, I am so sorry you're now a member of the club no one wants to join.  I would feel angry and betrayed.  I too feel like a bubble is burst every time I hear of a bc sister getting dx'd after years, even decades, of a healthy lifestyle.  Yet, we just don't know how it would've been if you had been on the couch eating ding dongs and mt dew.  You might've been sicker in a much more aggressive way much sooner. 

I agree with deanna also in regard to the number of servings. Two and a quarter is way less than optimal, yet some improvement is noted even at that minimal amount.  ...and their conclusion is fresh produce doesn't help much?  Why not comment how remarkable that such a miniscule amount CAN make SOME difference?  

I have to wonder if these same researchers would allow genetically modified crops to enter into such a study.  Dr Mercola recently focused on a report showing lab rats eating genetically modified crops are developing blue testicles.  

iHEARTu

Well, I admit I'm not the greatest in eating my F&Vs, so I turned to my blender!!! Now I make smoothies using carrots, zucchini and a banana!! Or what ever I feel like or what's in my refridge! NO KIDDING? I can't taste the zucchini b/c the banana masks the taste! I also like berries with some spinach and honey. Remember, you want a liquid: milk, soy or even orange or apple juice works well! You'd be surprised at what tastes good from a blender...LOL!

This is ONLY my thought....but my gut tells me people are born with a predisposition to cancer, but it's what is done to a body that will so to speak "trigger" cancer cells. It's the over exposure to food or alcohol or the constant levels of stress & depression etc...
Again, just what I believe and could ruffle feathers...but again, who am I? I'm not close to a professional in the medical field...just what I've seen in my family.

Oh, what the heck...pass that chocolate.

-c

MariannaLaFrance

iHeartU, I think the same thing. I have a few thoughts about BC and me, which might hold true for others. I took BC pills for 10 years. I was pregnant for basically 6 years after that, since I had 3 children and 2 miscarriages. So my body was exposed to unnaturally high levels of estrogen for 10 years, followed by the elevated levels that come with pregnancy. Add to that fact that I am a worry wart (working on that now-- can't do this to myself forever for my health's sake!), and that I had a very stressful job for a number of years, and that could be a potentially great combo for a cancer to start.

After reading Dr Lee's book about hormone levels, I also am certain that there might be an underlying metabolic disorder at work. I had an internist tracking me for a couple of years for hyperparathyroidism, and now am seeing an endocrinologist and GI doctor to check out any absorption issues with my intestines. I have very, very low levels of Vitamin D. So, slowly but surely, I am trying to close in on a "cause" or at the very least, figure out how to balance out my body somehow.....

Frustrating. I guess I should have gone to medical school, because I am getting a crash course in  the endocrine system now.....

MariannaLaFrance

P.S. Pass that chocolate over my way! Maybe I should start my day tomorrow with a Mt Dew???

iHEARTu

MariannaHB - I need to check out the metabolic disorder. I've read about it in a few threads...but need to check it out. I got my period when I was 11, then in college I started the pill and was on it for 10 years. I don't know why I stayed on it for so long, because the first week I started each cycled I was nauseous....'ding..ding'...red flag. I also think anxiety was the biggest contributor to my cancer. I had anxiety for as long as i can remember. It was a (to put it blunt) crappy way of life looking back. I was finally diagnosed 6 years ago and it changed my life to be on meds to control my moods.

Off to do some research on the met. disorder.
-catherine

iHEARTu

MariannaHB - My day starts with a Dt. Coke...and I may raid my boys Easter Baskets.

MsBliss

It is possible that those good habits still work in your favor:  good general health, good recovery from treatment, lower risks of recurrence.  I ran and lifted weights for many years and had excellent athletic conditioning, but I backed down for the 20 or so months before the diagnosis of a tumor that was estimated to be 6 to 12 months in development.

Roy Walford, the first researcher to study maximum longevity by lowering caloric intake died of Amyotropic Lateral Sclerosis (Lou Gehrig's Disease) after contracting it in his seventies.  He felt his habits delayed the onset by 20 years or more.  

There's no easy answer, but we cannot disregard the need to respect and take care of our bodies.

Yazmin

Deanna: TWO thumbs up on your analysis of this article. 

Yazmin

......And here we go:

 #438: Free Weekly Newsletter by Ralph W. Moss, PhD.April 11, 2010 


DO FRUITS AND VEGETABLES PREVENT CANCER?


The Journal of the National Cancer Institute (JNCI) has published a paper that denies a major role to fruit and vegetable consumption in the prevention of cancer. Since this study contradicts many other studies, as well as a long-term US government recommendation ("5 per day"), it has gotten a lot of press. At this writing, there have been 520 news articles, almost all of them negative. "Simply eating your five a day will not protect you against cancer," is how the Independent (U.K.) phrased it.
However, there are several questions that need to be addressed about this study. Here are some initial thoughts. I hope to present some further thoughts after my visit with Prof. Colin Campbell this summer.
First, according to this European Prospective Investigation Into Cancer and Nutrition (EPIC) study, if the subjects had increased their fruit and vegetable intake by just 150 grams per day, they would have reduced their risk of getting cancer by 2.6 percent (men) and 2.3 percent (women). Now, 150 grams is the weight of one apple. In the United States in 2009 there were 766,130 cases of cancer in men and 713,220 cases in women, for a total of 1,479,350. Thus, by the study's own figures, one small apple or a handful of grapes could prevent 19,919 US cases of cancer in men plus 16,404 cases in women, for a total of 36,323 people. That's about the capacity ofFenway Park in Boston, where the Red Sox hold forth. So instead of minimizing the results (as virtually every media outlet chose to do) the authors of these articles could have put a positive spin on the EPIC findings. After all, is it a small thing to keep more than 36,000 Americans from getting cancer at such a minimal cost?
Looked at in another way, the patients in the study were divided up into five groups or "quintiles."
Quintile 1 consumed 0 to 226 grams per day (i.e. less than eight ounces maximum)
Quintile 2 consumed between 227-338 grams per day.
Quintile 3 consumed between 339-462 grams per day.
Quintile 4 consumed between 463-646 grams per day.
Quintile 5 consumed more than 647 grams per day (i.e., a minimum of 23 ounces)
The difference in the Hazard Ratio (i.e., the risk) of cancer between Quintile 1 and Quintile 5 was 11 percent. Thus, if everyone in the US adopted a diet in which they ate over a pound (23 ounces) of fruits and vegetables per day, the cancer incidence would drop from its present-day 1,479,350 to 1,316,621, for a savings of 162,729 cases of cancer. This could fill Beaver Stadium in State College, PA, with 55,000 left over!
The European Prospective Investigation Into Cancer and Nutrition (EPIC) encourages us to think internationally. The World Health Organization (WHO) has estimated that there are at least 12 million new cancers diagnosed worldwide (Science Digest 2008). According to the EPIC study, conversion to a moderately high fruit-and-vegetable diet could ideally save 1.3 million people from getting cancer each year. This astonishing fact was hardly conveyed by the negative press reports on the EPIC study.
To be concluded, with references, next week


 
--Ralph W. Moss, Ph.D.

AuroraL

From MariannaHB above:  "I took BC pills for 10 years."

 When I read this I read "I took Breast Cancer pills for 10 years" and I'm thinking, "Breast Cancer pills, what are those???"  Then I realized it was birth control.....but perhaps they are one and the same...

Boy do I wish eating bananas would block cancer.  But surely good nutrition and exercise makes us stronger warriors.

Nan56143

Auroral,

I had to laugh when I read your post However, it is not a laughing matter. BC pills are BC pills...birth control no matter what form, oral, patch or IUD, are all "designed to cause breast cancer". Millions of us took them.

Yazmin...thanks for the article by Moss.The media plays such a negative role, never reporting the actual facts...just their "spin" on what they feel is important. Diet is an important part of preventing any illness/disease.

Althea...perhaps when men begin reporting that, like the rats they too have blue testicles, then things will begin to change.

MariannaLaFrance

LOL, Aurora. What irony that is.... and little did I know that I was altering the course of my life for those Birth Control pills. It's on the fine print in the package inserts, but I took them thinking "Naw, not me, that won't happen!"  but look at me now...

 I am certain that many of us here on the BC Forums used to take Birth Control pills. Unfortunately for us, big Pharma won't change anything about how they target young women with these, because of the social ramifications that the BC pill caused for women-- with BC, women could enter/stay in the workforce longer, and plan when they had their children, not worry about potential pregnancies, etc, etc. However, I hope the next generation of young women coming up will realize that breast cancer is a very real threat from these pills. Too late for me.....

genmail2000

Taking fruits and vegetables can reduce cancer risk by only 2%. Reason? We need to take pounds and pounds of veggies and fruits every day which is impossible. Most of us know that Resveratrol in wine can prevent cancer and reverse cellular aging. We need atleast 100 mg of resveratrol to have this beneficial  effect. But 1 litre of red wine has only 3 mg of resveratrol. No one can drink 33 litres of red wine per day day - not even 1 litre.

www.turmeric-cancer.com

MariannaLaFrance

I've heard that from an Aussie friend, he takes Resveratrol for his health issues. Wondering if you're supplementing with it for your BC treatment? I have hesitated to take it, not knowing everything about it. He says it gives him bounds of energy.

luv_gardening

There are natural aromatase inhibitors found in many foods. These foods also contain many other beneficial nutrients which can't be found by taking supplements or drugs and you don't need pounds, just a good variety each day.  Why not replace all those unhealthy fats, meats, processed chemical laden foods and empty carbs and sugars with good healthy fruits and vegetables, nuts beans and seeds?  Flavour with herbs and spices which are also high in anti-cancer nutrients, especially turmeric. And if needed, lose weight at the same time which is also a risk factor.

http://www.medicinal-herbs-and-spices.com/cancer-herbs.html

http://www.naturalnews.com/026514_cancer_brst_cancer_food.html 

http://www.cancerdecisions.com/content/view/280/2/lang,english/

* Studies at the Beckman Research Institute of the City of Hope in Duarte, California, suggest that fresh white mushrooms contain substances that are effective in reducing the activity of the enzyme aromatase that increases oestrogen levels. High oestrogen levels have been implicated in breast cancer risk. Initially, extracts from seven vegetables - onion, celery, carrot, pepper, broccoli, spinach and mushroom - were tested. The most effective aromatase inhibitor was found in white mushrooms. The study's second phase tested only mushrooms, including portabellos, shiitake, crimini, oyster, enoki, woodear, chanterelle, small white and large white mushrooms. The large white mushrooms emerged as the most potent inhibitor of aromatase activity.

 ***************

Developing Breast Cancer Prevention from Natural Products

Dr. Chen has studied the chemopreventive properties of the aromatase inhbitors in grape seed and white button mushrooms. Aromatase is an enzyme responsible for making estrogen. Dr. Chen has found that the activity in extracts from grape seed and in white button mushrooms is capable of blocking tumor growth in animals. Based on these observations, he is developing a breast cancer chemopreventive drug. Read more about Dr. Chen's work > http://www.cbcrp.org/research/PageInvestigator.asp?person_id=1657
Ask an Expert

* Q. How much grape juice would you have to drink to prevent breast cancer?
A. Based on animal studies, we estimate that 250 - 300 ml of grape juice per day could have a protective effect against breast cancer. The use of grape seed extract may avoid concerns about the sugar content in grape juice. We can only get precise dosage after human trial.

The City of Hope has an active clinical trial to determine the dosages of grape seed extract that can suppress estrogen formation (i.e., aromatase suppression) in postmenopausal women.

* Q. How many mushrooms would you have to eat to have an effect on aromatase activity?
A. Based on animal studies, we need to eat 150 - 200 g of white button mushrooms everyday. The City of Hope plans to initiate clinical trials to determine the exact dosages of mushrooms for suppressing estrogen production in postmenopausal women.

* Q. Do ALL mushrooms affect aromatase activity? Do some work better than others?
A. As indicated in our paper published in the Journal of Nutrition in 2001, most types of mushrooms we tested can suppress aromatase activity. The good news is that the most common type of mushrooms, white button mushrooms, are equally effective as some unusual types of mushrooms. From our preclinical studies, the anti-aromatase effect of mushrooms remains even after they are cooked.

* Q. Are the aromatase inhibitors that you find in grapes different from the ones you find in mushrooms? If they are different, which ones seem to be more effective?
A. Yes, the anti-aromatase chemicals we isolated from grapes (i.e., procyanidin dimers) and from mushrooms (i.e., conjugated linoleic acid) are different. From our studies, the chemicals in grapes (grape seeds) seem to be more potent than those in mushrooms. In addition, the modes of action of these chemicals are not exactly identical.

* Q. In what ways could the inhibitors that you've found in grapes be different than the ones currently used in the clinic?
A. The inhibitors in grapes are clearly less potent than those currently used in the clinic. Therefore, they may be useful in prevention, with less side effects (that associated with the elimination of estrogen in our body). In addition, grape chemicals are found to suppress the expression of the protein aromatase, and also to inhibit aromatase activity. Based on such results, we would like to hypothesize that grape chemicals may also be useful against premenopausal breast cancer. The synthetic aromatase inhibitors are shown to be only effective for postmenopausal breast cancer.

MsBliss

LJ13-2,

Big pile 'o doo-doo on this one.  If you analyze the study, you would see that it is a spin job and largely invalid in it's contentions in that it actually proves a positive connection to f & v in reducing risk; and this despite the fact that they didn't insist on the use of the freshest possible sources of  f & v.  But it will do a lot of damage in terms of the sound bite effect...I hope not too many people take it to heart.

momto2angels

Thinking...

I just found out that I am gluten, egg, dairy, almond, and MORE.. INTOLERANT.  Which means that until I clear/cleared these foods out of my diet, (I was told)..my body was only getting 1/2 of the nutrients I was taking in due to small intestine problems/coating.  Now, I never had typical "celiac" symptoms so imagine how many more people are out there, just like me, not knowing what's really going on inside their bodies.  Maybe that's why the reports aren't as good as they should be on fruits and vegetables.

The blood test I had done was a E95 Basic Food Panel. 

So... after clearing up my system by not eating those foods that were destroying the inside of my intestine.. my immune system will boost because I will now be able to get most if not all of the nutrients I ingest.

Makes sense doesn't it?

Yazmin

Do Fruits and Vegetables Prevent Cancer? - Part IITag it:?Sunday, 18 April 2010

Advocates of stricter forms of a vegetarian diet point out that changes of a few ounces are not likely to make much of a difference in cancer occurrence. One needs to make drastic changes, they say, in order to combat as intractable a disease as cancer.
Dr. Pam Popper, director of the Wellness Forum of Columbus, Ohio, suggests that these changes should consist of (a) the elimination of dairy products, (b) the reduction or elimination of all other animal foods (the upper limit being 10 percent of calories), (c) reduction of fat and elimination of oils, and (d) consumption of a diet composed of high-fiber, nutrient-dense, whole plant foods. She points to studies that indicate that such a diet can not only prevent cancer but can actually stop the progression of various disease states (Popper 2010).
Popper cites Cornell Professor Colin Campbell's fascinating book, The China Study, to show that animal protein can be a powerful cancer promoter. She also claims that dietary fats, including monounsaturated and polyunsaturated fats, are a significant factor in cancer risk. Indeed, in 1991, Kenneth K. Carroll concluded: "Total dietary fat correlates with cancer incidence and mortality at least as well as does any particular type of fat" (Carroll 1991). The consumption of dairy products has been linked to several forms of cancer, particularly tumors of the prostate (Chan 2001), although there is hardly unanimity on this idea, even in vegetarian circles.
My friend Ann Fonfa (annieappleseed.com) makes a good point that the topmost consumers of fruits and vegetables in the study (Quintile 5) consumed as little as 647 grams per day (i.e., a minimum of 23 ounces). This is not very much! Right now I have a single sweet potato in my refrigerator that weights 586 grams, itself almost the uppermost limit of daily consumption in the EPIC study. There was no attempt made to isolate those people who were really getting a high proportion of their daily calories from fresh fruits and vegetables (and no consideration was given to the question of organic food, either).
None of these factors were considered in the EPIC study just released. What would have been the effect if strict vegans (no eggs, dairy, fish or meat) had been considered as a separate category. That might have provided very positive results, which probably would have proven more meaningful than the data that emerged from the EPIC study.


 
--Ralph W. Moss, Ph.D.

artgal

Hi, I'm new to the forum.  Had double mastectomy 3-25-10, Grade 1, ER+, HER2-.  This is my first day of Arimidex and I have read hundreds of your messages, I'm so glad you're all out there helping people like me.  I am vegetarian (40 years) but I took estrogen (not progesterone) for 23 years after my hysterectomy in 1986 (fibroids).  I'm sure that's what did me in, because my lifestyle is extremely healthy and stress-free.  I don't drink wine or any other alcohol any longer (stopped early this year but I never was a big drinker.)  Questions I can't find answers to:  is phytoestrogen in foods the same thing as ingesting estrogen, and if so does it negate the purpose of Arimidex?  And is there any negative effect to taking resveratrol 500 mg pills daily? I have heard it may help me keep my hair, if there is any loss.  I'm going into this with a positive attitude but it would be helpful to know as much as possible.  Thank you everyone!

Member_of_the_Club

Well there are other reasons to eat a diet rich in fruit and vegetables than cancer prevention.  We are all hoping to live long enough NOT to get heart disease, right?  Heart disease kills more women than breast cancer and one of the best things we can do for preventing this is a good diet and exercise.

 I've never believed the right diet could have prevented my breast cancer because I had been a vegetarian my entire adult life and still got it (with no family history).  But I'm still a vegetarian becuause there are other reasons to eat a healthy diet. 

Anonymous

Oh dear.

artgal

Lucy88, thank you for sending me that very informative reprint.  It gives me a lot of comfort knowing that I didn't do myself much harm by being on HRT for so long.