Curcumin : good or bad?

Anonymous

Hi,

I have some informations about curcumin, Like any supplementation curcumin can incresse or decrease the efficiency of chemotherapies.

Curcumin also have interaction with some medcations and can even decrease the efficiency of certain chemotherapies (especially for breast cancer)

Here is a link :

 . http://cancerres.aacrjournals.org/cgi/content/full/62/13/3868

The best thing to do is to ask your doctor.He can give you advises regarding your kind of cancer and your kind of treatment. And make sure he get the information and not just say "it's ok". Some aoncolgist don't know everythink about spuuplementation. In case of doubt it's better not to take curcumin. It's se same for radiotherapy

A last thing. There are website where you can buy supplementations. Sometimes it is written that curcumin has no interactions. This is wrong. But good for the sales ;o)

Have a nice year.

dhorak

I have been taking curcumin and pycnogenol for approx a year.  Before I took either one, I asked my onco about it.  She is from India and said that curcumin/tumeric has been proven to provide antioxidant benefits and that in her country tumeric is added to lots of foods.

Pycnogenol is another supplement that provides antioxidant as well as help for neuropathy.  I can honestly say that this has helped me a great deal.  I still have side effects from Taxol even after a year and a half from last treatment.  When I ran out of it and didn't take it for a month the sypmtoms came back.  Started taking it again and within a few days, the neuropathy is under control. 

I buy both products at Vitamin World.

Merilee

My onc said no antioxidents durning the first 10 days after chemo treatments as it will deminish the effects.

dhorak

I didn't start taking either supplement until about 3 1/2 after I finished treatment.

Nan56143

Just a few links about curcumin. Since all the chemicals from chemotherapy are gone from your body within 48-72 hours, if it were me I would question as to why you cannot take anything for 10 days.

http://www.mdanderson.org/publications/cancerwise/archives/2008-september/cancerwise-september-2008-curcumin-temporarily-slows-pancreatic-cancer.html

http://www2.mdanderson.org/depts/oncolog/articles/07/9-sep/9-07-2.html

http://abstracts.hematologylibrary.org/cgi/content/abstract/ashmtg;110/11/1177?maxtoshow=&HITS=10&hits=10&RESULTFORMAT=&fulltext=curcumin&searchid=1&FIRSTINDEX=0&volume=110&issue=11&resourcetype=HWCIT

RobinWendy

I posted this in another thread concerning curcumin and thought it bore repeating here.  I took this supplement for several years and then read that it can aggravate gall stones.  As I have gall stones that have not yet needed removal, I reluctantly stopped taking curcumin.  After all, it's enough being Stage IV... I don't need another major health problem.

So, just be careful if you have gall stones or gall bladder issues and mention taking curcumin to your doctor if you do have these issues.

Robin 

ananda8

Curcumin is a blood thinner as well as an anti-inflammatory.  Do not take curcumin if you are on Plavix or Warfarin.

My onc OKd my use of curcumin 

Anonymous

Hi,



I would also ask my oncologist if I can take it during the chemo or radiotherapy. And if I have to stop before. When?



I would aslo ask different doctor's opinions



Have a nice day

RobinWendy

I was just reading the information that came with my prescription for oral Cytoxin.  It specifically states that if you are taking Curcurmin, that you should consult your oncologist before starting the Cytoxin.  So, if any of the people who read this are on chemo or considering chemo, please speak with your oncologists about this to avoid unnecessary problems.

Robin 

mathteacher

Robin, with all due respect, most oncologists are not qualified to answer questions on supplements. They have no training on the subject. Most just aren't interested in doing their homework on supplements.

Maybe somebody in the group has an integrative oncologist?

somanywomen

Ditto mathteacher about doctors not knowing and not taking the time to help us with very important nutritional benfits!!!....I have now a small library on anti-cancer books and all support the curcumin (tumeric) with black pepper effects against cancer...

RobinWendy

It was not my suggestion to go to the onc for general information on curcurmin... the issue is that the warnings on the prescription papers specifically state that if you are on curcurmin... you should speak with your doctor.  If it's important enough to put in the warnings... then anyone's onc should know enough about it to say... yes, it's OK to continue or NO, the interaction is dangerous.  Who else are you going to ask?  There is no one else.

Robin 

mathteacher

If the information is out there, written, studied, documented, etc., then anybody should be able to access it. Then the patient can read it first-hand.

You don't need to ask an onc these kinds of supplement questions. You don't need to ask an onc what is available to anybody in the literature. Why would you rely on an onc's subjective response or guess when you could dig it up official research yourself? The only question I can see asking an onc about this is, "what references support your information?"

RobinWendy

 Because the warnings specifically state that the interaction with cytoxin and curcurmin could be dangerous, that's why.  I do not understand your reaction.  I am on chemotherapy and given a choice, wouldn't want an adverse reaction and end up in the hospital.  This is a medical question, not an alternative v. conventional medicine argument. If you want to throw caution to the wind... that's your right.  I would rather have my onc call the manufacturer of the cytoxin and find out from the if he doesn't know. as they are the ones who put the warning on the prescription description. 

I am Stage IV... I cannot "research" to see if anyone you would respect knows anything about this specific drug interaction.  I find your attitude condescending and obtuse.

Once again, many of you ladies on this board just go into attack mode at the mere mention of asking an oncologist anything.  I'm so sick of it.  Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar... not an attack of alternative methods. 

somanywomen

RobinWendy, I for one apologize...I was taking this for general information and not specific to an interaction to cytoxin and truly appreciate your warnings..It is extremelly important to differentiate the difference......thank you.......

Yazmin

mathteacher: I think that we, on this board, all agree on at least one point: some supplements are really strong substances. As such, they are actually capable of interacting with other (natural or non-natural) substances being administered.

The idea is that if someone is on chemotherapy, their doctor should know about any supplements they might be on at the same time, in order to manage, and hopefully avoid, interactions. Substance interactions can be dangerous, right?

mathteacher

Robin-- 

Please reread my post. I never said, don't tell your doctor. I said you can research this information. There is no secret oncologists' library where they keep the information about supplements. The information is all publicly available. Tho, I realize not everybody wants to look things up and they're content to take their doctor's word for things.

Why you are calling me names like "condescending and obtuse" for being pro-research is baffling to me.

I apologize if I offended you in any way. That was not my intention. I wish you only the best.

Springtime

When I was done with chemo and rads, this book had just come out and I read it:  "Anti-Cancer, A New Way of Life". This is when I first learned about Turmeric or Curcumin  as a preventative for cancer and recurrences..

This is the Curcumin supplement I use. It is important that the supplement have "bioprene" which is a pepper (it enhances absorption). If you use Turmeric in your foods at home, make sure you add pepper.  I take two of these a day. 

http://www.agelesscures.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=4&products_id=2 

This is an excellent book to start getting an idea of what you can do to prevent a recurrence that is beyond your medical treatment. Diet , Exercise, and serenity practices.  You will notice it has 5 stars and 128 reviews!  

http://www.amazon.com/Anticancer-New-Way-Life/dp/0670021644/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1264983715&sr=1-1 

Hope this helps. 

mathteacher

Researchers are working on giving curcumin intravenously?

I guess it's effective enough to make it into a patent medicine.

http://www2.mdanderson.org/depts/oncolog/articles/07/9-sep/9-07-2.html

Nan56143

Cytoxan and Curcumin

RobinWendy..is this what your warnings state? I do so wish that they..the drug companies, could be specific as to exactly what the reaction will be. Curcumin is found in many foods. How in the world can your doctor or even the pharmacist provide more information, when in fact it should be stated on the sheet which comes with your prescription? I wonder if there are any studies actually done on this.

Sweetie, you have to do what you feel is best for you.

Medical warning:

Serious. These medicines may interact and cause very harmful effects. Contact your healthcare professional (e.g. doctor or pharmacist) for more information

How the interaction occurs:

Curcumin, the main component of turmeric, may prevent some chemotherapy medicines, especially those used for breast cancer, from working.

What might happen:

Your chemotherapy may not work as well against your cancer.

http://www.webmd.com/drugs/drug-6738-Cytoxan+Oral.aspx?drugid=6738&drugname=Cytoxan+Oral&source=0&dmid=1318&dmtitle=SELECTED+CHEMOTHERAPY+AGENTS%2FTURMERIC+(CURCUMIN)&intrtype=DRUG&pagenumber=9

Springtime

That article above posted by mathteacher says this

...By blocking the activity of this "master switch," curcumin appears to interfere with the cancer process at an early point, impeding multiple routes of development: reducing the inflammatory response, inhibiting the proliferation of tumor cells, inducing their self-destruction, and discouraging the growth of blood vessels feeding tumors. These effects can shrink tumors and inhibit metastasis. Furthermore, shutting down NF-kB can enable traditional chemotherapy drugs to destroy cancer cells more effectively. 

This makes me crazy. Who is to know what is the truth? I really wish we knew more about medicines and how supplements interact. My ONC told me to do NO ANTI-OXidents during chemo, which just seems so counter intuitive, but she said it could "protect the cancer". Who knows. I think they really do not know, and ONCs typically are very pro drug and indifferent at best and hostile even sometimes about supplements.

ugh. 

mathteacher

Springtime, I know how you feel about the conflicting advice.

I heard integrative oncologist Dr. Keith Block speak and he showed evidence that antioxidants help chemo work. He's gathered the research together in a book but here is his article.

http://www.blockmd.com/AntioxidantStudy.pdf

Yazmin

Nan, you wrote: "....How in the world can your doctor or even the pharmacist provide more information, when in fact it should be stated on the sheet which comes with your prescription?"

I don't think it is about asking the doctor to provide more information, Nan: I think it is about letting the doctor know about ALL drugs and supplements alike.....that you are on, to avoid possible dangerous interactions. Now, if you tell your open-minded integrative oncologist, Dr. Block  that you are on, say, curcumin, well, good for you, he will probably agree):

If you don't have such an integrative oncologist and run into a disagreement at that point, I guess you have to do your own research and decide what's best for you. But the issue is: your oncologist MUST know everything else you are "taking"......

EDITED TO ADD:

mathteacher: having said that, the evidence FOR taking curcumin with chemo is  compelling. I would probably be very much tempted to go that way if I had to depend on chemo. Thanks for the link.

Springtime: Twinlab's NAC seems to be more affordable than Complete Detox, though. Or perhaps I am looking at a promotional offer.

Springtime

Mathteacher, Thank you for that!!! 

pip57

If we expect certain supplements to protect us from cancer (as I do) then we must accept that there can be unwanted consequences under some circumstances.  

It is frustrating that we don't actually know more about all the pros and cons.  I really believe that we are only beginning to learn how all these things can effect our bodies and our treatments.  

Therefore, it doesn't surprise me that our oncs are all over the map on this issue.  We really are the guinea pigs, so to speak.

RobinWendy

I will not fan any more flames on this thread.  I will only suggest that people reread the thread to see how many women report of their conversations with their oncs about combining chemo and curcurmin.  I was merely reporting what my drug interaction literature said about curcurmin and cytoxin... I was passing along what I thought was helpful info.  It never warranted such a vehement response from anyone.

Ladies... if you look at my posts... you will see that I am a true proponent of the complementary approach of treating and preventing BC (although too late for me to prevent it).  Yes, there have been times that I have thought a conventional approach was better... but isn't that being truly complementary? Also, can we please remember the name of this forum... Alternative, Complementary and Holistic... not just alternative.

Robin 

thenewme

RobinWendy, thanks for your voice of reason.  

I am also a true proponent of the complementary approach, and agree that it also deserves rational discussion here.  I think very few of us are on either extreme of the alternative-conventional spectrum, but those who are seem to be very vocal about it.  Most of us exist somewhere along the spectrum and try to apply common sense and reasoning.

Natada

I am a stage IV lady after a 3C diagnosis 11 years ago, I went thru CAF and high dose lots of endocrine therapy.  I did consult with the Block Medical Center this time around and am taking a combo chemo that they recommended at my local onc., plus the nutritional supplements.  I also changed my diet according to the Block plan.  My chemo regime is Avastin and Abraxane(taxol drug)  One of the supplements recommended is curcumin.  I had no measureable disease when I started because I had the metastasis surgically removed.  My tumor markers started out normal and have slowly crept up and are now abnormal (15.3 is 31) after 5 months of infusions, so I am going for scans.

I did a lot of soul searching and reading before I decided to blend medicines.  I do not take excessive antioxidants, I do take several supplements that have anticancer properties such as green tea extract, curcumin, garlic, a cruciferous extract and DIM.  (although DIM can alter estrogen activity it also is directly anti-proliferative on tumor cells).  The reason I feel comfortable with this blending is that the tumor cell population is heterogeneous,  a mixed population of cells.  Some cells may be killed by the chemo drugs some may be resistant, hopefully some of the supplements could helpkill more cancer cells.  None of the supplements that I am taking behave as Abraxane does, that is they don't bind to the microtubules in the cell so it can't reproduce.  Some of the supplements do interfere with angiogenesis, but not exactly like Avastin does.  So Avastin and Abraxane still have a chance to go in there and work.  I did find a couple test tube studies that showed DIM and curcumin actually enhanced taxol activity.

As far as I know, Abraxane and Avastin do not work like a lot of chemo drugs, by causing oxidation reactions to occur inside the tumor cells. eventually inducing damage to the cell and it dies.  That is why I believe a lot of oncs get nervous about taking anti-oxidants, believing that it will inactivate the oxidation caused by the chemo. Dr. Block's literature research link is posted above, has shown that not to be true.

One of the other things I learned is that chemo can cause a lot of inflammation, those aches and pains we feel are probably part of that.  Many of the anti-cancer supplements are anti-inflammatory in nature.  They will help keep down the inflammation while on chemo. Tumor cells have been shown to thrive in the inflammation environment, so by changing your internal environment to an anti-cancer one in theory can help kill cancer cells.

In reference to the cytoxan and curcumin interaction, I would want to know why.  It might be unrelated to the anti-cancer effect and perhaps be related to bleeding or some other interaction.  I would investigate it more and then make a decision based upon those findings.

I also wanted to add that combining more than one cancer reagent isn't new, thus CAF/ACT are still used today.  It is just that the combo I am now choosing is less damaging, less inflammatory to my body.

If new mets show up on scan, I will have no regrets in choosing this pathway to healing. That is probably the most important feeling to have while going through this journey. It is a very individual decision, just like religion.

By the way, my hair still fell out, so I think the Block protocol does not inactivate Abraxane

Peace,

Natada

mathteacher

Thank you for your careful research and wise thoughts.

alain23

Hi,

Some curcumin pills contains piperin or piperidin that can increase the levels of many drugs.

I think it's better to ask your doctor and/or avoid curcumin pills with peperin or piperidin.

Have a nice evening

RobinWendy

I had to stop taking the curcurmin about a year ago when I discovered that it aggravates the gall bladder for people with gallstones... which I have.  The only reason I posted what it said on my Cytoxin directions and warnings is to warn other people who may be on Cytoxin and either considering or already taking curcurmin.  I will be seeing my oncologist on Friday and I intend to ask him.  If he knows, I will post what he says.