To Soy or Not to Soy!!!???

barbe1958

That's my kind of thinking JO!  I did notice another thread about this issue started up about the same time and someone else put in my points about growing up with soy or all of a sudden adding it. BIG difference!

PS73

I guess I don't understand that theory about growing up with soy vs having it as an adult. Its been said numerous times but it has not been proven as to why yet and I am not wrapping my head around that part of the theory anyway. Maybe someone can explain it to me like Im ten years old.  I know its cited many places but I personally think it's a trajedy that we are told to stay away from it.  One camp is the phytoestrogen theory that it is mimicking our estrogen.  The other camp is that the flavanoid, genistein is causing the issues.  Either way, these are two major players in the vegetable kingdom so what are we supposed to do - stay away from all forms of veggies/tea/fruits that contain phytoestrogens or genisteins?  This may limit us to the atkins diet.  I personally think its overkill but Im not here to argue as I can completely understand why ppl would avoid soy being that their drs are telling them to stay away - which is the trajic part.  So I guess my point (if I have one) is, why just soy?  Why not all vegetables that fall into the same category as soy?  

..because that would be crazy, right?!

Below is a list of genistein containing veggies.  click here to see the amounts of genistein on page - note that it goes in order high top to low bottom of amount of genistein in food, I just wasn't able to post the chart.  http://journals.cambridge.org/download.php?file=%2FBJN%2FBJN84_05%2FS0007114500002075a.pdf&code=d27cdd922f76f18e0efbe7a12d05dd39  The phytoestrogen veggie list has been posted already by someone else I think it was titled ' foods to avoid' and was basically everything else (mostly fruits) besides below and animal meat and animal fat. 

Heres a simplified explanation of what genistein is. http://zerobreastcancer.org/research/bcerc_factsheets_phytoestrogen_genistein.pdf

------------------------------------------

Soyabeans, dried, raw

Miso

Textured vegetable protein, raw

Soyabeans, dried, cooked

Beansprouts, mung, raw

Runner beans, Dunn IHRM, raw

Runner beans, raw

Chickpeas, whole, dried, raw

Butter beans, dried, raw

Runner beans, cooked

Split peas, green, raw

Red kidney beans, raw

French beans, raw

French beans, cooked

French sliced beans, frozen, cooked

Chickpeas, whole, dried, cooked

Haricot beans, raw

Lentils, red, split, dried, raw

Red kidney beans, cooked

Mung beans, dried, cooked

Peas, dried, raw

French sliced beans, frozen, raw

Mung beans, dried, raw

Peas, dried, cooked

Haricot beans, cooked

Butter beans, dried, cooked

Potatoes, new, raw

Baked beans, heated

Okra, raw

Baked beans

Peas, frozen, raw

Peas, fresh, raw

Split peas, green, cooked

Lentils, red, split, dried, cooked

Celeriac, raw

Peas, frozen, cooked

Sweetcorn, tinned or frozen, raw

Potatoes, new, cooked

Celeriac, cooked

Tomato, raw

Sweetcorn, on cob, raw

Cabbage, Savoy, raw

Sweetcorn, tinned or frozen, cooked

Cabbage, red, cooked

Broad beans, raw

Turnip, raw

Peas, processed & tinned

Sprouting broccoli, cooked

Salad onions

Sweetcorn, on cob, cooked

Mushroom, common, raw

Mushroom, common, cooked

Potato, old, raw

Sprouting broccoli, raw

Turnip, cooked

Pumpkin

Asparagus, raw

Aubergine, cooked

Aubergine, raw

Potato, old, cooked

Cabbage, white, cooked

Cucumber, with skin

Cabbage, white, raw

Cucumber, flesh only

Radish, raw

Chicory, raw

Concentration of daidzein and genistein combined

barbe1958

If I'm not mistaken, it is the estrogen load of soy that is to be of concern. So, if you grew up eating it, your body can deal with it. If you all of a sudden add it (and you're ER+) then it's an overload.

PS73

Thanks for the info. ..is this the same theory as to why ppl who take tamoxifen may sometimes end up with Estrogen negative cancer?  An overload?  Just speculating. 

PS73

..so too much soy or phytoestrogen in a single dose can overload your body with weak estrogen?  I am very interested in this because I drank soy for over ten years - I thought it was less but its actually close to about 12 years - time flies!  About five years ago I started drinking it daily with my coffee.  By the theory of soy is responsible (at least in part) for BC, wouldn't I have 100% ER BC and or have gotten cancer a long time ago?  Im her2nu+++, and 25% ER positive.

deni63

PS - My doc made exactly the same point to me that you are making above. This is actually the one I recommended you to. He showed me a recent study from a major university (don't recall which one at the moment) that shows soy to be beneficial because it attaches to the receptors that estrogen would attach to and is protective. He also said he doesn't understand why people with BC are being told to stay away from it. His point was the same, if you are being told to stay away from soy, why not all the other phytoestrogens. And, as you say, there are LOADS of them. It doesn't make sense to him either. I tend to agree.

I truly believe that we should focus on staying away from the carcinogens (processed foods, sugars, too much meat, etc.). These are the really harmful substances to our bodies. Natural foods, unprocessed and without lots of additives are the way to go in my humble opinion.

barbe1958

But you ARE ER+......I have no idea if the % makes a difference in any case.

I don't think any ONE element gives us cancer, it's a whole brunch of crap and an unlucky roll of the dice. I don't believe you gave yourself cancer by drinking soy either!

PS73

Deni - I like him already!!  Im waiting til after the new year to make an apt.  I did get another rec on someone else in Little Falls.

Barbe - agree that there are several elements, I think I walked thru the cancer puddle while being really stressed out.  I just get upset when soy gets the brunt.  Not fair, Im guessing that research scientists could do the same study with another bean and get similar results just over a lengthened period of time ..or even the same amount of time.

barbe1958

Well, soy has been in the spot-light for at least 30 years or so, so it's bean (ehheeh) well researched. It was supposed to be the wonder food of the world.....

PS73

Probably in its raw form its much better.  Most of the soy is GMO nowadays anyway so if it was the soy then Id say its more the engineering of the western soy bean that was likely the cause. 

barbe1958

I bet you're right!

deni63

PS - Can you PM me the name of the doc in Little Falls? He is an onc, ND, gyno ??

Yazmin

Barbe and JO-5: so happy to hear that I am not the only one who wants to drop out of the oncologists' radar in the near future. Indeed, I have written somewhere else that, after 4 years of being a breast cancer patient, I firmly believe that one is better off staying away from the oncs, unless life-extension only is an issue (otherwise, they always try and bombard the patient with all kinds of toxic "preventive" screening and drugs).

crazy4carrots

Jo-5 -- there have been some interesting studies done on flax at the University of Toronto and Duke University.  Google Flax and Dr. Lillian Thompson, (and avoid any of the sites that are using her name to advertise their products!).

Cheers, Linda

Nan56143

a link from Life Extension on soy peptide

http://www.lef.org/news/LefDailyNews.htm?NewsID=9124&Section=NUTRITION&source=DHB_091215&key=Top+ContinueReading

Anonymous

Barbe and Jo, refreshing to hear the there are thinking people out there to assist you on this journey. My situation has been a dismal failure thus far...well, just have to do what I have to do. 

Maybe someone posted this info and I missed it but I wanted to point out that growing up eating soy was important to the prevention of BC because it was ingested at the time the women reached puberty. Will be reading more about this:

 http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/04/080409091727.htm

deni63

Article from the Journal of the American Medical Association explaining the benefits of soy and decreased breast cancer mortality. It doesn't talk about when one may have started to consume soy.

http://www.nutraingredients-usa.com/Health-condition-categories/Cancer-risk-reduction/Soy-may-slash-breast-cancer-mortality-Study/?utm_source=Newsletter_Product&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Newsletter%2BProduct