DIM with no BC?

MMP

Hi everyone,

I usually lurk in the high risk forum but made my way to this one.  I don't have BC, but I am high risk due to family history.  Currently I take garlic, Vit D w/ calcium, Vitamin D3, and drink brassica tea. I sometimes take grapeseed or red wine extract.

I am interested in adding DIM to my mix.  I am not on tamoxifen.  Is it OK for me to use DIM if I don't have BC?  If so, how much should I be taking?

Thank you for the help!

fairy49

Yes, yes and yes!!! its a preventative! start at 100mg for about a month then up to 200mg and then max out at 400mg.  I wish everyone were as pro-active as you, kudos sister!!

MMP

Thanks.  Just made it through with another clear MRI so I am breathing a sigh of relief.  Glad you are doing well, fairy49!

I'm reading through the three page thread on DIM and confused as to which one I should order. Also, if you know of other supplements I should be taking, lay it on me. 

Thanks again.

fairy49

MMP!! Yay clear MRI!!!! congrats! nothing quite like that feeling!  I use Nature's Way Enhanced Absorbtion Formula, the enhanced absorbtion thing is important.  I know a lot of girls get theirs from BioResponse if you google it will take you to their website, theirs is a little expensive, Nature's Way is less so.  Here is my list of supplements, I rattle when I walk LOL!!! I am always adding stuff! By the way I also use Bio Identical progesterone, read the book by Dr. John Lee "What your doctor may not tell you about breast cancer, how hormone balance can save your life" whew! long flippin title!! it will explain in detail how progesterone will offset estrogen dominance and in essence be a protective for you for BC! Also, get a copy of "Breakthrough" by Suzanne Somers, its an amazing book, she explains the whole hormone balance thing! Did you have your hormones tested?

L

ox

Women's Multi Vitamin - high quality I use super nutrition brand Simply One 50+

Antioxident

Green Tea at least 3-4 cups per day or green tea extract in pill form

Olive Oil (cook with it and use on salads etc, use whenever you can!)

Fiber over 40grams per day

  

DIM - Very important!! Start at 100mg per day and work up to 400mg within a two month period

  

Omega 3 Fatty Acids Liquid Form (this disrupts key enzymes necessary for tumor growth, stop tumor cells from sticking together, prevent tumor cells from migrating or spreading to other areas of the body, causes cell death by apoptosis, stops new blood vessels from growing into tumors, decreases the production of oxygen free radicals.

CoQ10 - needs to be in a soy oil suspension capsule not in a dry table or capsule 400mg per day

Curcumin/Tumeric 500mg daily  - start out low and work up to 500mg over a few months

  

Selenium - 200mcg

  

Melatonin - again start on low dose and work up

  

Vit D-3 - 2,500++mg per day - 1 tiny tab!!

  

Iodine - Iodoral

  

Vit C - 3,000mg per day

  

Calcium D-Glucarate - Helps Remove Toxins and Carcinogens From the Body

                                        500mg per day

                                        

Calcium D-Glucarate is a relatively common nutrient found in many fruits and vegetables. Many believe that this nutrient aids the body in the elimination of many harmful substances and helps to lower abnormally high levels of steroid hormones including estrogen, testosterone, and progesterone. Both of these effects may help to protect against the development of certain tumors.

PATTY50

What is DIM?  I read about all the other supplements but never heard of DIM. 

deni63

Hi Fairy,

I just saw my onc and he told me that the liquid gels of CoQ10 are ineffective and that they have to be in a dry capsule to be effective. He gave the dose of 400 mg as optimal. I see that you take the liquid capsule form and say that it has to be liquid capsule. What is your reason for this? There is so much conflicting info out there! Just trying to sort it all out! Thanks!

Deni

fairy49

CoQ10
Ubiquinone, otherwise known as Coenzyme Q10 or CoQ10, is a vitamin-like substance and powerful antioxidant that is found in every cell in our body. It is absolutely essential for energy production in our cells. Research shows CoQ10 levels in tumors are much lower than in normal tissues. When CoQ10 is given to breast cancer patients, some spectacular results have been seen.

In a study published out of Denmark in 1994, 32 patients with high risk breast cancer were treated with antioxidants (vitamin C and E, selenium and beta carotene), essential fatty acids (gamma linolenic acid and omega-3 fatty acids) and 90 mg of CoQ10. Breast cancer tumors shrank in six of the 32 patients. The researchers wondered what would happen if they increased the dose of CoQ10. So, they decided to increase the daily dose of CoQ10 to 390mg in just one of these 6 patients. They got a big pleasant surprise. In one month, the tumor in this patient had become so small, the researchers couldn't feel it anymore. A mammogram done a month later showed the tumor had completely disappeared. These researchers then gave another patient with breast cancer 300mg of CoQ10 a day and her tumor disappeared. In the 18 months the patients were treated, none of them died or showed further signs of metastases. The expected number of women who would have died, based on the stage of their tumor, was 4.

Encouraged by these results, the researchers continued their study of CoQ10 in breast cancer patients and published a report the following year. Three hundred and ninety milligrams of CoQ10 was given to each breast cancer patient every day. One patient was a 44 year old woman whose breast cancer had spread to her liver causing numerous tumors. After taking the CoQ10 for a short while, all the metastatic tumors disappeared. Another patient with metastatic breast cancer tumors to the lining of her lung was given CoQ10 and 6 months later, her doctors could no longer find any of her tumors.

Chemotherapy can cause organ damage, especially to the liver, heart and kidneys, because it doesn't just target cancer cells -- it also kills normal cells too. CoQ10 has been found to help prevent organ damage caused by chemotherapy and may also increase survival. Certain drugs like Adriamycin commonly damage important heart cells. In elderly patients with heart disease, the damage caused by Adriamyin can be fatal. CoQ10 is normally found in high concentrations in the heart. Adriamycin causes those levels to go down. When patients on Adriamycin are given CoQ10, it prevents CoQ10 levels from going down in the heart and protects heart cells from being damaged.

Taking CoQ10
CoQ10 is fat soluble. This means it is better absorbed when it is in fat. When CoQ10 comes in a soy oil suspension contained in a soft shell capsule, it is better absorbed than if it is in a dry tablet or capsule. That means, you will need a higher dose of the dry form of CoQ10 compared to the oil suspension to get the same levels in your body. For prevention 30-100 mg a day are recommended. If you have breast cancer, you'll need to take more. Research shows about 300-390mg a day is very effective. A study from the University of Scranton found bio-grown CoQ10, prepared from whole food cultures may be the most well absorbed and metabolized form of CoQ10. It was found to have 20 times more antioxidant activity than the standard preparation of CoQ10.

fairy49

DIM Info

http://www.dimfaq.com/index.htm

  

http://www.diindolylmethane.org/molecular_biology.htm

  

http://www.dimfaq.com/site/cancer.htm

  

http://diindolylmethane.blogspot.com/2007/06/dim-clinical-applications-and-research.html

  

http://www.dimfaq.com/site/abstracts3.htm

  

http://www.diindolylmethane.org/cliinical_applications.htm

Luna5

FAIRY49...Thank you so much for all this information.  I am catching up!  I am already taking a lot of what you take but still need to order DIM and Calcium D Glucarate and Iodoral.  I also need a better multi than the one I have. 

I have been also taking Longevinex Resveratrol and Nature's Way Masquelier's Tru-OPCs 75 mg per tablet..I usually take at least 4 tablets.  Has your research uncovered any reasons why these should NOT be part of my health plan?  After a lot of research a year ago,  I started taking 400 mg Q-Gel Bioenhanced Double Strength CoQ10. But as I was about to order more, I noticed that it has soy in it and thought maybe I should avoid it.  So, I started taking granulated capsules along with fish oil and/or a tablespoon of olive oil.  So I am very interested in what you said about WANTING it to have soy in it.  Should I not worry about it and order the same brand?    Curcumin---I read that in order for it to "pass through the membrane" (whatever membrane it means???) you need to take it with oil (olive oil) and black pepper.  So, I generally try to take the curcumin capsules while eating something like tuna mixed with mustard, olive oil and lots of pepper on Ezekiel bread. I usually take my fish oil at the same time.

Thank you for all the great information and your willingness to share it with those of us who are trying our best to be as healthy as we can be.  I just had my 2rd re-excision of the mastectomy site of the breast I had removed as a prophelactic precaution.  Scar tissue was interfering with the filling of the tissue expander.  In the last 4 months, DBL Mast, Re-excision of DBL Mast 3 wks later as a precaution against infection because drains were nowhere near ready to come out, Hyst/OOph and now the reexcision today.  I'm not complaining, I know there are a lot worse things to tolerate than these.  I'm just ready to go full blast into getting healthy and I still haven't gotten back to exercising.

Luna 

deni63

Thanks Fairy! I will definitely ask my onc why he believes that the CoQ10 is better absorbed in the dry form. Again, he believes it is a very important supplement, as do I. And, I have been taking a liquid softgel for a while. When I started to see him, he told me I should switch to a dry capsule because it is more easily absorbed in a dry form! So, I need to revisit this with him. Thanks so much for the info!

Deni

vivre

MMP-curcumin/tumeric is also a supplement you should look into. Also check out the iodine/thyroid  thread. There is a link between iodine deficiency, which I believe I definitely had, and bc. Also try to keep your insulin levels on an even keep with nutrition, and cinnamon and nuts. And keep the cortisol level down with weight control, especially in the mid section, and stress management. A good stress relieving walk everyday is a great preventative. BTW, I am preparing a website with other survivors where we talk strictly about prevention. We will have lots of discussions and easy to access links to studies. Keep in touch if you want to join us. Oh and one more thing, you might want to check out thermography vs. mammography. This method is better for detecting cancers in dense breasts because it can see through the tissue and looks for blood flow, feeding a possible tumor. Plus it is safe and painless. I will never do a mammo again. There is mounting evidence that they are dangerous.I think if they would stop pushing mammos and start training more techs to interpret therms, we could lower the rate of latter stage cancers tremendously. If women knew there was a safe, painless, inexpensive alternative they would be more likely to do them yearly. But mammography is a cash cow so they do not want to change.

MMP

Thank you so much for all the help. It is very much appreciated.

I just ordered these: Please let me know if I should chose something different with the next order.  I will pick up multi vitamins at the health food store......

Jarrow Formulas Curcumin 95 -- 500 mg - 120 Capsules

NSI Mega EFA® Omega-3 EPA & DHA -- 2126 mg - 240 Softgels

NSI ToCoQ10 -- 100 mg - 120 Softgels

Nature's Way DIM-Plus Estrogen Metabolism Formula -- 120 Capsules

NSI Vitamin D3 -- 2000 IU - 300 Capsules

Natrol Calcium D-Glucarate -- 60 Tablets  (how much do I take of this??)

I will continue with my garlic, calcium w/ Vit C and chug tons of brassica tea.  I also started walking five miles four days a week (takes me a hour).

I have not had any levels checked---scared of needles, imagine that!  What do I need in terms of iodine?

I've heard of thermography but at this point I get mammograms and MRIs on a regular basis. I'm all boobed out right now.