MIDDLE-AGED WOMEN 40-60ish

staynsane

The following is a great article that is easy to understand and puts osteopenia/osteoporosis in perspective. Hope the link works...

http://www.dslrf.org/mwh/content.asp?L2=2&L3=1&SID=261

PoppyK

Thanks Staynsane! I'll have to check it out.

I'm now 50 and chemo threw me into menopause for good. My first bone scan showed osteopenia in my neck. I'm on letrozole, and my MO gave me the option of Fosamax. She said some women progress quickly from osteopenia to osteoporosis, others don't. They don't know why this happens or how to predict who it will happen to. BTW, I went with the Fosamax.

elimar86861

I read it a few years back, but I believe Tamox. only stopped 4% of bone loss, and then when you do go off Tamox., the loss is accelerated. I could very easily be wrong on this, not completely sure anymore.

I, too, was told I was osteopenic. Unfortunately, calcium has upset my stomach ever since chemo, so if I want to take it, I have to take stomach (hydrocloric) acid supplements.

Don't really like living the pill on top of pill lifestyle so I'm not too regular about taking the calcium. Probably more bone less next density scan. Wah!

MinusTwo

testing - I haven't been able to 'submit' on any threads. Hope this works.

movingsoccermom

The largely silent concern for me remains Russia, and their willingness to take what they want and continually challenge borders and NATO. Ukraine is a scary situation.

PoppyK

Elimar, I don't like to take pills either. Amazing how cancer makes us do stuff we don't want to do. ;-) I've read that the supplements help some, but not others. No way to tell who will benefit. Getting Ca from food seems the better option.

BTW, I love your Cyclone picture and the line: If you think BC is like a roller coaster ride, then you've not ridden any of the great coasters!

heartnsoul76

Hi ladies! I'm having the Tamoxifen/AI debate going on with my MO at the moment, too. Today I picked up the prescription she gave me for Femara. But since I lost bone density in my spine while on Tamoxifen I really don't know about taking it. Currently, my spine is at 0. I thought you were supposed to strengthen your bones if you were postmenopausal while taking Tamoxifen. And I don't understand your post about 4% bone loss, Elimar. In women that were going to have bone loss anyway, Tamoxifen stopped it for 4% of them?

I had spinal X-rays recently, and they showed extensive arthritis in my spine. So yes, Loral, I DO think the Tamoxifen caused the arthritis. No arthritis anywhere else and this doesn't seem like a natural progression.

Last fall I noticed I had a broken bone jutting out of my middle finger. Seems like I'm always bouncing off walls so I have no idea when I must have slammed it against something. But I showed it to my MO and asked "how did this happen while on Tamoxifen?" The question was actually part of my long list of reasons why I was quitting Tamoxifen after 3 years, 10 months. But her face looked kind of dumbstruck. And when she prescribed the Femara last visit a few weeks ago I asked about the loss of bone density in my spine and she said, "Well, if you get osteoporosis we'll just put you on Zometa." Uhh, no. My teeth aren't particularly care-free. And it would be just my luck to develop ONJ. The spinal and sacrum pains continue, but I have clean scans and good tumor markers. I really don't know what to do at this point. Seems like BC patients always have to choose between bad and worse.

Eph, I'm so happy for you getting the job you wanted! Haha, spell check changed your name to Eh. Eh, Elmira and Moline. Well, while modern technology can be as aggravating as a car (sorry about your car troubles, Tomboy), at least it can be mildly amusing sometimes. I don't think my car is very amusing. I'm sure you're not amused, Tomboy!

I've always thought I would like to be a 911 operator. The police headquarters are right around the corner from me. If they're located there, I might apply sometime. Things have to be convenient at this age!

Oddswinner

Just got back from plastic surgeon yesterday. I have a bi-lateral mastectomy on July 20th and was so unsure of what to do, Do I want the pain of longer surgery, and filling foobs w/ saline, go through Rads & possibly burn the expanders, or better yet tear my 59 year old skin. Do I wait, how will I feel with no boobs. I did not know this would be an ginormous decision. Hubby didn't understand, said he'd love me no matter what I decided, I explained to him it would be like having your Balls cut off! He understood .

So through research and asking my TNBC group for all the pros and cons I have come up with a plan that I think works the best! I am having the Bi-lateral now. Waiting until all chemo & rads are done and healed, then I can have a look of what it's like not to have boobs at all and if I decide I want my breast back I will go in for a tram flap, the bonus will be loosing that "baby" fat acquired from my wonderful children along with gray hair, etc .

Although, it's still the scariest thing I've ever done in my life, I think it's the best thing I've ever thought through. Motto: staying in each moment, taking one step, one day at a time.

NativeMainer

Staynsane--I was on tammy for a few months, had absolutely NO side effects from the drug and some reasons to expect that the drug was not working, so I switched to lupron (to shut down my ovaries) and arimidex. I did not get tested for bone density until about a year into arimidex, and the result was that may bones were consistent with a woman 5 years younger.Had a bone density follow up test just before finishing arimidex, never got the results (not in the computer at the time of my last visit, they promised to find the report and call me, but I never heard anything).The doc said good bones is probably the only benefit of being obese most of my adult life.I finished arimidex in 2013.About a year later I started natural menopause, annoying but MUCH easier than 5 years of arimidex hot flashes, joint pain, etc.I also had arthrtiis in my knees before bc came alone, it was MUCH worse during arimidex time, is much better now.Not sure if those drug cause arthritis, but it sure makes it feel worse!Never had a bone density check after treatment, but I'm still obese and have no reason to suspect any issues.I've also done some reading, and my personal opinion is that "osteopenia" is a generally meaningless term--there is no real disease or condition, it's a manipulation of bone density test readings come up with by pharmaceutical companies to increase the number of people who will "qualify" for expensive drugs like fosamax.But that is just my personal opinion.

Oddswinner--Congrats for working your way through the mountain of info and finding a path that works for you!There really is no one correct way to go from diagnosis through treatment.Finding your unique path is a huge step forward!Good for you!

staynsane

Oddswinner- Congrats on being confident in your decision! Now made, I'm sure a huge burden has been lifted, and while you have the stress of waiting for surgery, your game plan is in place. I pray your surgery goes without a hitch. So wise to take one step at a time. My mind got too "out there" in the beginning and that caused a lot of sleepless nights. Once I had done research and determined my plan, I was able to relax more.

Yes, I agree with all those who don't want to be livin' the pill poppin' lifestyle. But I am choosing to pop the pills that will help my bones (and hopefully my overall health), not the scarier ones with potentially devastating side effects. The article on osteoporosis that I linked above really put things in perspective for me. So much so that I considered not taking vitamin supplements at all (I currently take a daily multiple and Dim Plus, and will add the bone strengtheners) and immediately felt good about my decision NOT to go with Arimidex and Fosamax. I'm going to stay on Tam for two more years and hopefully put all BC drugs behind me at that point. It is so true that the decisions that have to be made are personal, and there is no single "perfect course" of treatment.

Deborah2012

Hi ladies,

Thoroughly am enjoying your posts! Poppy K and Elimar- that's it- an I Love Lucy guest appearance on the Seinfeld show.

I got my CA15-3 (15) and CA27-29 (22) results. I'm below normal. That's good. I was surprised I did have double digits, but then I read up on the tests and I'm unsure of their veracity. I speak with my GP at the end of this month. I'm guessing maybe once a year or twice I'll have the tests to see it they rise. I believe previous awesome women on this thread said it's the trend that bears watching.

Just saw Serena Williams win Wimbledon. Very entertaining. Seeing Federer and Rafa losing recently, it's fun to still have a legend at high performance. Her competitor can obviously beat her and likely will someday.

Congratulations on the job front developments! Best of luck.

I just finished reading a book called Sapiens. Very enjoyable and thought provoking. It's an evolutionary biology/cultural anthropology work. I'm going to send a second post momentarily that shows my wacky birding habits.

Deborah2012

I love birds. My house has a wrap around deck that is literally in tree canopy level- oak trees. I have about 15 bird feeders going and it's perpetual motion.

I'm going to try to upload three photos of a bird puzzle I made. I wanted to see if the scrub jays could be taught and/or solve on their how to obtain a whole peanut that required them to pull on a ribbon to open a drop door to access the peanut. I had seen a Nature PBS show on crows.

They solved it. I added a second inner door which made it a two-step solution. They were confused at first by the second drop door- it was comical to have them just look at it and then master it. I watched them observe the bird that solved the puzzle and they acquired the skill. I see the next generation ( fledgling) has learned it as well.

Step #1 What's this contraption? Deborah's been calling to me and fussing with this.

Deborah2012

Step #2 I can do this.

Deborah2012

Step #3 Ahhhhh, the peanut awaits. A door opens.

Deborah2012

Step #4 I got it! Now, I'll turn and smile for the photo op and smile directly at the camera. Then I'll stuff the peanut into Deborah's wood shingle roof for later. Because I know how special that makes her feel having to explain why she has a plethora of whole peanuts in her shingles when the roof gets maintenance treatment.

PoppyK

Oddswinner, I know several women who are flat and free and love it!

Deborah, That is amazing! I saw the show on crows, too. Such clever creatures. Those scrub jays are quiet resourceful! Your commentary with the pics put a well needed smile on my face!

Deborah2012

Poppy K, I'd like to send you a private message, as I see you're in California, too. I believe you said some of the California ladies on this thread get together periodically? I can't remember how to PM. Do you send me one first? I need remedial PM training. Must be the history of AIs and impaired function.

That made me smile to know you saw the show, too. I'm reading a science book called "Bird Sense" about the abilities of various birds and how they've evolved their senses and how humans have tested and measured many of their characteristics.

PoppyK

To send a pm, click on the name of the person. It will take you to their profile. Click the button labeled "message"... I think. I can't remember how the button is labeled, but it will be obvious. There are other ways to pm, but this one is easy.

elimar86861

PoppyK, Yeah, I hate to see the whole coaster experience maligned by that crappy cancer reference.

HnS, Sorry...to clarify: I was thinking that I had read that women on Tamox. numerically had 4% denser bones that the general pop., but then when studied after coming off Tamox. they dropped right back down to the same levels as other post-menopausal women. Therefore, Tamox. might just postpone the inevitable; not have a lasting effect. I am not current on the studies about that, so it's probably worth a Google (Bing) to read the latest findings. Now, broken middle finger you say? How on Earth to get by without that function? Mwahahaha!

Oddsy, You look summer-gorgeous! Who'd have ever thought we would have to make these kinds of decisions, but look what life throws at us? Agree with HnS that the choices are never exactly in the "good" category, but we have to make due with what we can best tolerate both mentally and physically. I must say I was LOLROFPIP (that's the normal with peeing in pants added) at your mastery of "Husband-speak!!!"

Always good to hear from you SnS and thanks for the link!

And thanks for Pavlovian bird pics Deb2012. I like the birds too. I've had one bird make her nest in my yard waste trash can a few years in a row now. It was sad this year when two failed to get up and out the exit hole quick enough. I think after the first two did get out, the mom moved on with them and just left the last two behind. I really was not checking them daily, but if I had intervened then the whole nature thing about survival of the fittest wouldn't work. (On the other hand, do any of you just sit and think this: "If it were 100 years ago, I would be dead by now." That thought crosses my mind a lot.)

Oh, yeah...NM, I don't get too hung up with the osteopenia label either. I think you are right that carrying around some extra weight probably does keep a certain density to the bones. I already have two strikes against me being slender and having had a mom with a stooped back, but I cannot bring myself to get on any prescription med prevention at this point. I'll probably end up a stubborn old hunchback! (And I am only one and a half adjectives away from that right now.)

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Had a nice visit when my Stage IV BFF dropped in this week. She's on Xeloda and it is already messing with her GI tract. She's at the "no food looks good" phase, but otherwise doing o.k. and it will be some weeks before we know how effective it is on her bone lesions. Got my fingers crossed for her. (Momine, I checked and her BC was/is lobular.)

Deborah2012

Staynsane, Were you part of the Calfornia group that got together, too? Please private message me. I'm coastal central CA. but have family in So. Cal and No. Cal.

Oddswinner, welcome to the fun bunch. I appreciate your decision making exercise.

I have a special free gift I send to ladies in your situation. It's not selling anything. It's a kind gesture. If interested, please private message me and I'll get it to you. I truly think that we women in this situation merit a special gift given our situation. If you've too much on your mind, no worries. Just know that we watch out for our fellow travelers. Your surgery is fast approaching. You'll be relieved when it's over. Take care.

glennie19

Deborah, LOVE the bird pics!  Very cool!!

 

Hi Odds:  YAY for making your decision.  It's not easy, but a weight is lifted once you decide.   Great photo!

Tomboy

Where are you, Debrorah 2012? I am in silver lake, between hollywood and glendale. My family of origin is all in sacramento, where I grew up. But I love los angeles! Are those hills in ojai? Or santa barbara? I want a view like that! Cool bird feeder! we want out of la- 15 yrs is enuf, and its really just pretty noisy, and I want a real garden and not just planters. And fruit trees. Maybe an avocado too.

BlownOffCourse

Oddswinner: I felt so conflicted when trying to make that decision last summer. I went back and forth so many times. I finally did what you have planned, although I only had a UMX. I know it sounds odd, but my surgeon did such a phenomenal job that my only regret is not pursuing getting both sides done as it would be so much easier to be able to go flat sometimes. Every time any other medical professional sees my surgeon's work, they are in awe . They all say it looks fantastic. She got a big kick out of it when I told her about everyone's reaction.

Right now I have no plans to ever reconstruct, but it's nice knowing the option is there.

NativeMainer

Deborah--that's a great series of pics!

Elimar--I'm with you, lets wait until there is real research, or a real disease present before taking drugs.Here's praying you don't progress from osteopenia to osteoporosis.And that your BFF continues to do well and gets her appetite back!

staynsane

Copied off of the picture thread...

PoppyK

Staynsane, ROTFL! I always wondered why ice cream isn't the wonder cure.

Elimar, Regarding your thoughts on survival of the fittest and 100 yrs ago.... I don't tie it to BC at all... 100 years ago I would have died in childbirth because my huge baby wanted to stay inside. ;-)

macatacmv

eli, yes I am getting those calls about helping out BC patients pay their bills. The last time I was in a crummy mood waiting for the doc to call about latest biopsy results and was not so pleasant to the caller. I doubt that I will have discouraged her tho. I am not so inclined to believe them. I had my veteran son answer the call from a helping veterans fund request call and the guy got totally defensive and could not answer any of my sons questions. So I just thank God for caller id. Because he still calls me too, they act all friendly and ask for me by name, it's all bull....

I am a little older than middle age and have complete osteoporosis in my spine and hip. Because I did not have a DEXA scan before I started Arimidex (only one in 2006) they won't attribute it to the drug, but I was switched to Tamoxifen. Now after being on tami for a couple of years it has gotten worse and so now I am taking Fosomax also. But I also just had an endremetrial biopsy for thickening in the uterus. My GYN said she would give the okay to my onc to start up the tamoxifen again. I don't see my onc until August I think I'll take some time off. It seems to me we are damned if we do and damned if we don't.

Before BC I took no medications.

Lol about the husband speak. My DS came to "help" me out after my latest procedure. Now he has the "man flu" (a cold) He is complaining all the time. I do not remind him about how I was a single mother and never had a day off for 18 years. It is his birthday this Sat. wants to know what we are going to do? Lol

Oddly, good for you for making a decision. Don't wear yourself out before surgery.

Bunchie56

It will be 10 years in November. I will meet with a surgeon this week. It appears to be non invasvive DICS - same breast as before. I am not angry, or mad but I am feeling very disappointed. Feeling kind of sad - I am divorced - just turned 59 - was ready to start dating again - now I am not. I know it could be worse but it doesn't help at this moment

kyliet

Nativemainer sorry for my slow reply I have been away 10 years isn't standard of care and it has nothing to do with staging. In my case it is because I am on zoladex and results from the SOFT trials. I am premenopausal hence zoladex to shut ovaries. I am also in Australia.

Deborah2012

Hi All,

Glad you enjoyed the pix. Must I have yet another common SE with this group? I had to have an IV bag of Reclast a couple of years ago because the Anastrozole wrecked my bones. I was hair under osteoporosis. My last bone density showed significant improvement.

Glaucoma anyone? Yup. I developed that as a SE from Anastrozole. I use daily RX eye drops.

Someone sent me a funny email the other day with some figures of speech that have surprising endings. Apparently there's a term for them called "paraprosdokians" (it's Greek to me). Hereare a few:

"If there's a will, I want to be in it".

"I used to be indecisive. Now, I'm not so sure".

"The last thing I want to do is hurt you, but it's still on my list". (Naturally, I'm thinking of amending that to be something like "Oh honey, the last thing I want to do is annoy you about washing off the solarium, but it's still on my list".)

"If I agreed with you, we'd both be wrong".

"I didn't say it was your fault. I said I was blaming you".

"Since light travels faster than sound, some people appear bright until you hear them speak".