MIDDLE-AGED WOMEN 40-60ish

Tomboy

well, hell~ scare us.

mel147

Yes, definitely scary info but it does kind of motivate me to continue on the path of trying to make lifestyle changes that will be more healthy for me, so I suppose that is a good thing. Any more information on the specific studies that came to that conclusion? I'd like to learn more about it. Thanks!

elimar86861

Loral, We have heard that for a while now, how ER+ can linger and then rear its ugly metastatic head years later. Incredibly scary! It is good that they are trying to understand the mechanisms of cancer better; however, it begs the question why the cleanest living, most health conscious still get BC right along with the rest of us average Josephines. At this point, there are a lot of pieces of the cancer puzzle missing and I have a feeling that it will take many more future studies to really figure out How, Why, and Who.

MinusTwo

Check out the new study that shows most cancers are due to luck. 22 due to luck & 9 due to life style choices or genetics. Unfortunately they didn't include breast cancer or prostate cancer since the results weren't definitive.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/science/science-ne...

Deborah2012

Me too, Mel. I love science- not that I understand it well..... I kinda want to hear how the particulars of the lifestyle factors wake the dormancy.

In the Dec. 2014 science magazine, Discover, there's a terrific article about numerous high risk cancers triggered by a KRAS gene mutation. [Dr. Joanne] "Weidhaas' research showed the KRAS-variant is present in 61 percent of women with hereditary breast and ovarian cancer who don't have either BRCA mutation". An aside in the article is that Weidhaas turned down millions from venture capitalists because she wants the cost for the test to be low not thousands of dollars. She co-started a non-profit called "Mirakind" to further the research. Per the Discover article by Linda Marsa, "Few practicing oncologists know the KRAS-variant test exists". This biomarker, called KRAS-variant is linked to more cancers than any other known inherited genetic mutation. It is present in 1 out of every 4 people with cancer, and in more than half of people who develop multiple cancers. KRAS-variant carriers tend to get highly aggressive and recurrent breast, ovarian, head and neck, lung and pancreatic cancers." Triple Negative women are mentioned in the article as well.

Weidhaas was a radiation oncology resident at Sloan-Kettering.

Momine

Loral, thanks for posting that, but the bolded implication at the end is from the writer of the email, I think. I managed to find the actual study: http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0109934 and I do not see anything about diet etc in there, nor do I think the study supports any implications about lifestyle. We would need loads more research in order to make any such assumptions.

Tomboy

Exactly my point, too, Momine. And I was also wondering about the clean~living exercising vegetarians like my friend Lois, who had a very aggressive form of this disease too, like elimar said.

Momine

Tomboy, agree. There is evidence suggesting that exercise may have a protective effect, both against getting the stupid thing to begin with and against recurrence. We probably all know exercise freaks who got BC anyway, but that doesn't mean that exercise isn't helpful, statistically speaking. However, this study doesn't even begin to get into any of that.

Lately I have seen some stats about how much exercise BC patients/"survivors" get on average, and it is pretty bad. Most of the reports I have seen say that the majority didn't get much exercise before diagnosis, and post-DX they get even less. So I do think the medical establishment could do much more to get patients moving, for example, since we do have evidence for the benefit of this. But I am rambling now. Simply to say that I do believe we have evidence for some lifestyle factors, but, again, this study doesn't touch on that aspect.

Tomboy

I believe that... I got so much exercise before dx, I just loved to walk, and I worked as a housepainter and worked at a museum building wall and furniture, climbing ladders and scaffolding, I was thin and naturally strong. I am still just no where near that active, but I am trying harder now and got a fitbit too. But femara and lymphedema are really wearing on me. Are you up late like me, or is it morning where you are?

Momine

Tomboy, morning. I am in Greece, so 7 hours ahead of the East Coast and 10 hours ahead of the "Coast Coast"

Femara does do a number on my joints, although the degree of it waxes and wanes. I had mild LE in the beginning, and it still flares up here and there, but I really do find that exercise helps both problems. I wear a sleeve and gauntlet when lifting weights, and I do not lift anything big with my arms, but I always feel better after. Yoga is also helpful for the lymph flow, as far as I can tell from my limited experience. I only do 5-6 positions, none of which puts stress on the arms.

elimar86861

Loral, Thanks for sharing that, and don't feel like we are jumping on you, for anything in the post. Cancer is SO complilcated that, at even at best, the studies have been piecemeal so far. I wonder if there ever will come a "unifying theory." In my non-scientific way, I came up with my "Body Balance Sheet Theory. (I'd have to do a search of this thread, using accounting keywords, to tell you when that discussion took place.)

Anyway, the info. in your post does mention a "natural contest" between tumor promotion and tumor suppression, and that does fall into line with my thinking. If ANYTHING tips the body's balance, in a microbiological kind of way, cancer (or any other opportuning disease) can get a foothold, so to speak. Now, by anything, I mean it could be any factor (and the factors are not necessarily equal--so hard to tally up on the "balance sheet") from poor diet, inactivity, poor sleep, genetic factors, exposure to toxins, physical or emotional stress; or any combination of factors.

In my case, looking back, both my cancers could easily date back to around the time I lost a parent. Big emotional upheaval, where my eating and sleeping and brain waves were all out of whack. If there was a "natural contest" going on inside me, this surely would have been cancer's big chance to make a move. IF what I am saying actually happened, it partly answers my own question why extremely healthy individuals get cancer too. None of us can avoid the stress of LIFE. I don't care how much mindful meditation someone does, you cannot escape emotional trauma at the sickness or death of a loved one. We cannot measure (but here is a STRESS CHART that does try to) how severe a major life change might be. Of course, there are a million smaller stressors that life throws at us as well.

So why doesn't everyone get cancer? That is THE question. Maybe if we lived longer, we all would get it; or maybe some of us somehow manage to stay in that plus column on the Body Balance Sheet. More studies needed to get to the bottom of the cancer mystery.

Loral

No problem ladies..Just another article from a different breast cancer site. With my high Onco Dx score I already am 33% likely to have metastasized cancer somewhere within 10 years, so I was thinking this study had something to do with the guidelines of that genetic test. Who knows!!!

I just checked my stress score and it was 676...wow!!!

Oh and I'm also home with the Flu today, fun fun!!!

Momine

Loral, that seems like a very dire prognosis, given your stats. I hope it is wrong somehow.

justamy

I am very leary of putting too much stock in studies because there are always variables that make the results less than objective ( and therefore useless). You can find studies to contradict any other study and if not...just wait a year. I think it wise to live as healthy as you can, but I don't think you can predict who will or will not get cancer or have a reoccurance of it. I personally do not want to live in fear of a reoccurrence of cancer because, if I do, cancer wins and I lose the moments I have been given. I think this study is interesting but I will take the good and ignore the rest.

macatacmv

If we all got what we deserved from our life style choices, I would be dead all ready a long time ago. Since my poor choices youth I have cleaned up my act and then got cancer. So I am not so sure what "causes" BC. And I am not going to waste too much time thinking about it. I'll leave that to the scientist types. I do volunteer for studies and have been followed by the sister study for more than 10 years. They did a lot of environmental testing. They were wondering why one sister would get BC and not the other, then I had to get it too, but much later than my late sister.

Side note, since I have lost lots of weight (trying to be healthier) I look a lot like my sister. My hair is short now too, like hers was. I was at a BC support group right before Christmas, a woman kept staring at me. Finally she approached me and asked if I had a sister. I said yes I did but she was not with us anymore. She said thank god, I thought you were her and you scared me. Way to make me feel special!

So I had another visit to the dentist today. Why are my teeth all of a sudden falling apart? I had to have the crown that was put on in September taken off and a root canal done plus a cavity filled in the same tooth. The darn thing was hot. Meaning the nerve wouldn't go numb. Good thing there was no one else in the office I was making some noise. The stupid nerve wouldn't even go numb when he injected the novacaine right into the canal. Hopefully, I won't have to have any more dentistry anytime soon. I've had enough! I know, I know be gratefull I have my own teeth. grumble grumble!

now, I've forgotten whom I was going to welcome.

So when I saw my Gyn in December she quoted me the line about how exercise reduces the chance of recurrence by 50%. I said that is great if I had any energy I would get right on it. I said I do yoga, which I don't think of as exercise. I think of exercise as running 5 miles or riding a bike 12 miles or a jazzersize class. But that is all beyond me at this moment, so I do what I can do and keep moving as best I can. I have had to change my perspective on what I can do, what I need to do and what I can let go of, without beating myself up for where I am at. And you know what, the world has not ended even if I couldn't "do it all" anymore.

Tomboy

yikes! a hot tooth! glad its done, mac. love how you told your gyn if you had any energy you would do it!

loral, i guess it freaked me out cause my level of activity has dropped about 79% of what i did before dx, and in about 6 hours i am getting an mri, after having had a mammo and ultrasound a few days before christmas. and my chief complaint about chemo was the absolutely NO energy part. And the metabolism disruption. like by alot. so it was hitting close to home and freaked me up a little when i read it.

this lumpy bump i have under/in scar, has been concerning me for a year at least, and they poo poo'ed me. now all of a sudden, they are concerned..

ok. according to elis' stress thingy, illness can cause cancer. does this mean then that cancer causes cancer? love and night

NativeMainer

Macatacmv--chemo would have decreased my risk of recurrence by 50% to, from 5% to 2.5%Big woop.That's why I passed on chemo.Most people don't understand the difference between absolute and relative statistics, and relative are more often quoted as they are bigger and more impressive.So, Macatacmy--ask your GYN how that 50% relative stat changes your absolute stats and watch her squirm!

I have come to the conclusion that cancer causes cancer, worrying about cancer causes cancer, not knowing about cancer causes cancer, birth causes cancer, breathing causes cancer, eating causes cancer, and I'm beginning to think that death causes cancer.Time will tell, right?

Tomboy

I think it is all those henrietta lacks (HeLa) cells, vaporized. That first immortal cell, they were finding it everywhere, polluting specimens in labs where it was never brought in. It may have become part of our DNA.

macatacmv

MinusTwo

NativeMaine - right on!! My chuckle moment for the year. You only forgot exercising causes cancer & sleeping causes cancer & ...

Deborah2012

Hi ladies. I went for my annual mammo yesterday. Had a very poignant moment. I was able to comfort another woman who was losing it. Here's what happened.

We found ourselves in a hallway between two dressing rooms in the spa-like setup at the imaging center- I in street clothes leaving, she in a bathrobe looking for a room before her procedure. There was some confusion as to which dressing room Ms. Bathrobe should use and if there was an available wrist key etc. with another woman. Ms. Bathrobe spoke Spanish. So do I. We spoke in Spanish. I offered her my room. Being a repeat offender, I well knew the garment rankings of the "spa". If one is wearing a bathrobe vs. a maroon-pink tie garment, it meant one had graduated from mammo land and the potential journey into breast cancer world was beginning. Ms. Bathrobe looked like controlled panic. I asked her if she was having an ultra-sound? She replied she was having a biopsy. I told her I had had breast cancer. Tears started streaming down her face. I said "you have children don't you". She said yes. I smiled at her, and hugged her. She held onto to me so tightly and began sobbing. I asked her about the ages of her children. Her youngest was 13. When she stopped sobbing. I held her at arms distance, looked her in the eyes and told her that if I had known then what I know now, I would not have been so frightened. I told her that there are millions of us survivors. The clinic was a good one. The doctors there were great. I told her that in some ways my life was better now two years later than it was before breast cancer. I told her to go on Breastcancer.org. It was available in Spanish. They had discussion boards for women who hadn't yet been diagnosed but were scared. Then discussion boards for every possible phase of treatment. I told her how much breastcancer.org had helped me. I gave her my contact information if she ever needed it and asked her name. I clasped Maria's hands goodbye and she smiled. That exchange was one of those beautiful moments in life that post cancer mean so much more.

I was reminded how far I'd come and how my life had changed so much in even subtle ways in two years.

Moderators

Hi All!

Chiming in to let you know we are looking for your "stories of love for February.

Each and every person who encounters a diagnosis or illness spawns a collection of love stories around them. The stories come spontaneously from partners, parents, siblings, friends, nurses, doctors, community, Breastcancer.org members, peers, and even pets. Sometimes it happens organically and without notice.

We'd love to hear and feature your "love stories" in the month of February. Please share a story of love that enriched you, may have surprised you, made you feel stronger or supported during your breast cancer experience.

Please email us at community@breastcancer.org or PM the Moderators, and don't forget to include a good quality photograph that best represents you or your story. We will be posting the stories here:

http://www.breastcancer.org/community/acknowledging

PoppyK

Deborah, Beautiful!

JJ62

Lovely Deborah!

glennie19

Beautiful, Deborah. Glad you were able to comfort her. It is so frightening in the beginning.

elimar86861

Deborah2012, I LOVE your story. I really do think it helps to be reminded that SO MANY of us (unfortunately) are affected. When you get that Dx, you enter into your own little world of fright, dread and apprehensive anxiety. When another reaches out to you, and pulls you out of that Dx isolation bubble, it really can give you the strength to FACE what comes next. After all, so many women before you have done it! You done good!!!

Watch out, mac, NM, & MinusTwo, even thinking about cancer might cause cancer. Nowadays, I try hard not to do that.

Tomboy, Are you sure about that drop in activity level? Sure that it is not 80% or 78%? Girl, you crack me up!

My BC thought for the day (because I haven't ever checked this out)... We know animals can get cancer, but which ones get BC? Is it all mammals because of the mammary factor, or just some certain ones, like apes? You can tell I was listening when I was told that "no question is too dumb," can't you?

Some of you are good with the stories, so when the Mods come pandering for "love stories," don't be shy if you have one. I don't really have any. I mean I do LOVE my doctor and the ROBOT that took the cancer (not BC, the other one) out of my body and SAVED MY LIFE. My doctor is not my type, but I would have sex with that robot in a quick robotic nanosecond! Do you think that's what the Mods are looking for? No, I guess not. You might think that is a crazy, new-fangled idea, but no, it's been around along time. People just don't talk about it.

(Pic courtesy of the GBLR Alliance.)

Tomboy

eli, ahhaaaahhhaahahahahahahah!

Eph3_12

Danger, Danger, Will(a) Robinson!!!!

Momine

Eli, I know that dogs are very prone to breast cancer, more prone than humans even. It is one of the reasons that sterilization is recommended, because it protects the dog against mammary cancer.

staynsane

Ladies, checking in here is like getting a warm hug whenever I do it! Need to be more regular...

I had an experience very much like Deborah's during my mammo last August. I saw the grief and panic in another woman's eyes and actions (she was waiting for the dreaded biopsy after a suspicious mammo) and was able to help her relax, if only a little bit. The power of reaching out to total strangers can have amazing results, for both the reacher and the reachee.

I have a decision to make, and, while there is a lot of info on the subject available, I would like your opinions if you have switched from Tamoxifen to an AI. Six months ago my blood test revealed that I was no where close to menopause (estradiol level 250) but last month it was 3! So now, having been on Tamoxifen for 2 1/2 years, I can consider switching to Arimidex. I have had few and minor SEs from Tamox, and my onc suggests maybe I should stay on that. But my mom had/died from ovarian cancer, and since I fly for work I'm concerned about dvt. Arimidex is supposed to be better for those, as well as for preventing recurrence overall. But I've heard so much about joint pain it makes me wonder if I should just go with status quo. I tend not to suffer SEs from meds, and I think I might try switching (I can always go back, if desired) but wanted to see if you have insight that I haven't considered.