How to deal with idiots?

rubyredslippers

I would like to know how I am supposed to recover emotionally from BC when continually faced with the insensitivity and ignorance of other women (in my experience, Ive found its always women never men). Today at work Im returning from lunch, walking across the lawn back to the building. I work in a large organisation; a sometime co-workers see's me and we stop to chat. She comments on how long my (post chemo) hair now is. She then proceeds to tell me (for the second time) how she knows someone who has had BC. Her BC was in "remission" (her word) for seven years but then on then came back. I know I should have cut in and stopped her when she began telling this story that she seems to feel compelled to tell me, but I didnt but I think she got the message that I wasnt too impressed to hear this story again.

I have faced so much garbage from others since this journey began and it never ceases to amaze me just how ignorant people are; why do other people / women feel compelled to tell you their negative story about someone they know? How do they think that this could possibly be a nice or welcome thing?? 

How do I learn the knack of nicely and tactfully saying that this kind of thing isnt appropriate or helpful; do I just say that? Does anyone know of what to say that doesnt alienate people or cause them to feel that they've been told off when they obviously dont have a clue and being told this would probably be a shock to them? 

Has anyone found a really good thing to say that works and how long does it take to master the art of cutting people off and not feeling angry afterwards that you should have stopped them, or should have said something but didnt know how to and so on...this probably sounds silly but I found this to be one of the most challenging problems I've faced...dealing with the things others say and how to stop it from happening in the first place.

London-Virginia

Why are you so bothered about them not being upset?

Change the dance step - you don't need to be rude, you can say "I really do not wish to hear anything more along those lines, thank you."  Don't qualify the statement any further, just stick with it and they will shut up.

 It is a very sad fact of life that quite a lot of women revel in "ooooh ain't life awful" and mistake the mutual misery club that surrounds that attitude with genuine camaraderie.

People need to learn to stop and think first, and of course,all of us do get it wrong sometimes.  But the story you recount is just a woman mindlessly blathering.

Stiffen your resolve my dear one!!  Of course you are feeling very raw presently and it is perfectly ok to protect yourself by stopping blatherers.

I must say by and large alll my friends have been fine, and in the wider world, I have had immense support from my male friends.  Oddlt enough, I think it is because they are doing male communication "you have done fantasticaly well, you are handling this brilliantly" - just the stuff they are criticised for in "!Men from Mars..." - they are unequivocal in their praise because that's what they would need to hear themselves, were they in the same boat.

I went to browse some bras in a posh place (which frequently deals with  people that have had ops) and immediately the sho assistant was reeling off her compendium of "misery I have seen...".  I jsut walked out the door with her calling after me.  How absurd!

It is hard trying to deal with all of the stuff that comes with this journey.  For sure, some weeks are a lot better than others.  I am having a bad week (mainly because I really dislike the consultants at my hospital).  But something will come along in a while and I'll be up and bouncing again.

It is an up and down journey though, and we all fo us experience that at different times.

Good luck to you -

rubyredslippers

I dont know why I am bothered that what I may say may upset them. That is part of my dilemma; I suppose Im a pleaser and am not used to confrontation or standing up for myself. I think part of it is also that these people however ignorant and insensitive also seem to come across as though they are concerned about me, so I worry that I would come across as slapping someone that is trying to be supportive even though their ignorance means they are getting it really wrong. My problem is that I know that I need to start saying something as by saying nothing, or not saying what I want to say I end up angry and frustrated and my fears and worries are just growing larger.

Im just so not wanting to be on this 'journey'. They say that God doesnt give anything that's too big for us to handle, but I dont think that any of us can cope with this, it's just too big a burden. I dont have any support around me. I dont have a partner, or kids. I dont have many friends, and none that really understand, there are no support groups in my town, or counsellors / therapists so I feel as though Im just dealing with this alone and it's too hard. That's why these kind of comments are so hard for me. I dont know what to do, I dont want to fight with everyone, and I dont know how to sort out my feelings all by myself.

hollyann

Ruby you have every right to be upset by such insensitive women.......I had co workers who thought I should be 100% on the day I returned to work...They just could not understand that it is a YEARS long recovery......Not just physical but emotoinal.....I was one of those naive women back in the day and I wish I could take back all the stupid remarks I made.....I have PM'd you my phone number, Ruby......Please call me this afternoon.......

ktym

London-Virginia I think nailed it.  I have learned to be very firm in saying "I just don't find that at all helpful, thank you."  Mutual misery and drama.  Some people don't have enough of it in their own lives is all I can think of.  They do mistake it for comraderie.  I have made one exception.  One lady who I just can not get upset with.  She is cluless.  She was before my diagnosis.  Completely and utterly clueless.  I can't take it personally because she really can't help herself.  She is really trying her best to be caring.  Those that should know better.  I always smile and am polite, but they aren't allowed to bring me down.

As for co-workers who want you at 100%.  I say down and had a very frank discussion with my boss and boss's boss when I started back.  Took the risk of being honest with exactly where I was and how much I had to recuperate from and what I was up to doing.  They have made accomodations and adjusted my hours.  So far it hasn't backfired on me.  Time will tell.  So, that set the tone in the office somewhat.  I've also just then felt ok to barge ahead with, no, I have to leave by then that day and can't meet, or I'm working at home today.  When I acted like they should already know that those accomodations should be made my coworkers have gotten used to it or been afraid to challenge it.  For a few persistent nosey people I've said "well I hate to talk about it and be a complainer but since you are the one that brought it up..." I then proceed to tell them my misery of complaints and why I can't do some things.   A couple of times of doing that and no one asks anymore.

Chutney

rubyredslippers (love the name),

I have tried prefacing what amounts to "shut up and go away" with: I'm sure your comments are backed with good intention, but I don't care to hear what you have to say about....(your friend, that drug, bald heads, etc).  Accomplishes the same - usually gets a moment of silence - then say thanks anyway and goodbye, see ya later, what are you choosing from the menu, (whatever fits). 

Keep posting - it's way too hard to try to walk this path alone.  And you're not really alone anyway....we are here with you. 

Leah_S

rubyredslippers, if you want to stop this in a nice way without being confrontational, why don't you try saying something like, "Why are you telling me this?" Instead of getting defensive and therefore upset with you, it MIGHT actually get some of them to think BEFORE they talk instead of after. Or not at all.

Hope this helps.

I also love your name.

Leah

ktym

Leah is right "why are you telling me this" works well.  The counterpart works well too "why do you ask" will stop those asking personal questions that they shouldn't be asking

gibby

As I have said before many times. Stupid people don't know they are Stupid. I haven't found a tactful way to tell them yet. I hope you do.

Angel10

JO-5,

I totally agree with you...I have been an insensitive idiot so many times withut meaning to. Wish I could take them all back...

When I am on the recipient end, I have found saying someting similiar to what has been already suggested being helpful, "I'm sorry, can you help me understand how this story is supposed to help me?". If I am really feeling pissy, I omit the "I'm sorry" and say, "And this is meant to help me how??"  They get the point. I think it does behoove us to say something so that it is not repeated to us or others, but I am guilty as charged...And not necessarily with the cancer thing. I remember once saying something about "you could have put a gun to my head" over an issue in front of several people.  I then recalled that a recent friend's son had committed suicide by a gun to the head.  I realized after the faact that it is a stupid analogy.

If there is one good thing about this journey, may it be that we become more sensitive to others and a bit more self reflective on our own missteps.

God Bless!

Angel

GramE

I have used something like:    today is " I will NOT discuss cancer in any way, shape or form day" ---- Thank you very much, Have a nice day.   

OneBadBoob

Angel, I love your

"I'm sorry, can you help me understand how this story is supposed to help me?"  If I am really feeling pissy, I omit the "I'm sorry" and say, "And this is meant to help me how??" 

London-Virginia

Der Rubyred, lots of people are pleasers  so don't feel bad!  it is just that presently, this situation you described is horrid for you so it needs to stop as often as poss.   Speaking for myself only, I detest that phrase about God giving you only what you are able to cope with.  I am not an atheist but if I met another Christian that trotted out that sentence, I would probably hit them.  That is a) bullshit b) irrelevant.          May I suggest that just for the present time you decide to be a bit more selfprotective as suggested via various methods in people's replies above?  You might end up liking it!

I think Kmmd had some good thoughts about work.  I am waiting to hear if I have got a new job, and have been open about chemo etc.  They didn't seem too phased.  I feel a bit concerned about asking to work from home etc, but  that I think, is good girl syndrome.  "If I am a good girl and work really hard, if I am a good girl and work really late" and on and on.  It is our own minds driving us to do things we probably don't need to.  Large pinch of guilt added in!!!!   We are all just flawed humans! 

I am single too.  Don't let anyone put you down for that.  I have to say it doesn't bother me at all, and I look at other threads on here and boy oh boy, there are a lot of ladies who don't have nice, loving, supportive families, and wow, could I manage all of this with say three toddlers to care for?  I could not. 

On the socialising front, as there aren't therapy groups nearby, choose any bloody thing that spreads your circle.  Book group?  Do you have the equivalent of pub quizes in the US?  Sewing group.  Singing, any bloody thing.   Dancing for idiots?  Here's a thought - have you maybe considered starting your own little group, perhaps you could get some support in how to do that from other people on this site?   Absolutely bound to be other people around your area somewhere.  You could just start off meeting up for coffees, or maybe evenings out at funny films or something.  Probably feels like far too much bother, but I think it is worth considering.

As you are single, what about some new clothes or whatever floats your boat that way.  W£e all need to love ourselves and I think it is probably commonplace to feel unloving about ourselves when down.

Anyway, we love you and we don't even know you!

Are you fond of animals at all?  Would you enjoy perhaps helping with some animal welfare?

All just daft ideas but you get the point.

I feel really useless presently too.  Lets you and me just hope the feeling subsides.

If not its the wine in the fridge..................

susanb2

Hi Rubyredslippers.  I love your name. Are you a fan of Oz?  I agree that people can just be clueless and most of the time don't mean to be hurtful. Some people just have the personality that they aren't happy unless they are dealing in pain & trauma. I am telling them I don't want to hear any negativity. I am focusing on the positive for healing. I also try to avoid these people at all costs. Of course sometimes you can't avoid them at work or if they are in your family.

When I was dx, my husband started with all this why you crap, and how could God allow this? He was full of anger. I told him I didn't want to hear it. I only wanted positive and that the negativity wasn't helpful. He could find a friend to talk to about his frustrations. I haven't heard another negative word out of him. He is a fast learner.

 I  don't believe that stuff about God only giving us what we can handle. I don't believe God let me get BC. It's just part of living in a fallen world and bad things happen to good people. I will ask Him about it when I get to heaven, but I don't expect to get the answer while on earth. Instead of why me? It's why not me? This happens to a lot of women. I do know God has gone through it with me every step of the way. I hope you can find some good friends for  support. Virginia had some good suggestions. Good luck on the journey we don't want to be on.

sheila888

Hi everybody I am just jumping in to this subject, because I felt the same way when I was DX 4 years ago. I told my DD's they were still leaving at home. " I wanted to be treated as normal as possible, not this sorry looks etc....."   then I told all their friends I don't want any special treatment at all. And to all my close friends the same speech. Because I am a positive person

( even tou I was terrified ) I didn't want to hear You poor thing stuff, it worked except few people those who thought i was going to die any minute.

Thank you everybody for reading my post.

 Sheila

London-Virginia

Hi everybody!

Looks like you just made yourself a whole new bunch of friends Ruby!!

lots of love

Poppy

People are just clueless sometimes. The one I really hate is when someone asks,"How are you doing?" I say, "So far, so good..." and they go on to say, "Well, you're cured, right?" I have one dear friend who, in 6 years and 2 good friends who have had BC, still doesn't understand there is no cure. In fairness, before I was diagnosed, I didn't realize that fact either. I guess I just never really thought about it. It gets really tiresome having to tell people, "Actually, there is no cure. Hopefully it's gone for good but it could come back any time." Oh the joy of having to say those words. I would hope that when people offer stories of other BC people they know, especially when it's not a desirable outcome, that they're nervous, or trying very hard to relate, or connect, or ...something. I don't think most people who do this mean any harm, but for the life of me, I can't grasp how someone would think sharing a "bad" story would help at all?!!

iodine

The best I've heard was a dear friend who had 3-4 types of cancers and treatments for each one--and this was before the good meds to treat side effects.

"I have an orders from my doctor: I will only listen to very positive remarks about cancer and absolutely NO negative comments.  I'm sure you understand."

I see these people like little kids I used to teach about going to doc's appts and hospitalization:

whatever you discuss, you see the wee ones waving their hands to tell you a story about they have -[--  attention getting and very immature, IMO>

Sierra

Hi Ruby:

as they say here

what a great name!

you cant miss with that one

Say, Ive had all kinds of things said to me

(9 year thriver now)

and. .you know many time say ..

It ain't the hill I want to die on

really, you can not change them

but Cancer .. I found, had me setting new boundaries

and many folks did not like that LOL

You take care

and move forward, you will do fine!

Try to rise above it, hard as it may be

Hugs, Sierra )

otter

For the people who insist on telling me about acquaintances or relatives who've had cancer but have passed away, I use this (inserted as a blunt, mid-story interruption):  "No offense, but stories about people who have died of cancer just aren't very helpful to me.  I'm sure you understand."

For people who ask whether I've been "cured", or who insist that I must be cured, I use this:  "Yes, well, of course I hope I'm cured, but you just never really know with breast cancer... I guess until you die of something else!".

The bottom line is that there is no dealing with true idiots.  Fortunately, most of the people who act like idiots are well-intended, but poorly socialized.

Hugs...

otter 

Anonymous

Ruby---I think you could say something like "I appreciate your concern, I really do, but I'm trying to  not listen to the negative  stories and really trying to focus on the positive, thanks"

Anne

Texas357

I too set boundaries when I was first diagnosed,and I've stuck to them. Mine are pretty simple: no crabby people, and no negativity. I walk away from it.

I had been estranged from my father for 20+ years before my diagnosis. After he learned I was sick, he emailed. Yes, I took the extended olive branch but I was also clear with him: if he even so much as HINTS at being negative (which had been the problem so many years ago), I'd cut him off again so fast that his head would spin.

So far so good. I have found that most people do understand. And those that don't are not the ones with whom I want to spend my time anyway.

London-Virginia

Thanks everyone for sharing helpful ideas.  Living in London, I never get questions about am I cured.  I suppose English people are more constrained.  Also, I have come to see that all of us become unwilling near-experts on this topic, whilst other people have little knowledge.  The only thing I have found a bit tricky is that there is a general attitude here that if you "just" have a  lumpectomy, you are definitely ok thereafter.  (which of course, we all hope we will be).

Ruby - how are you? 

roseg

I think I'd squelsh any instinct to act annoyed at the person. If you come back with a snippy remark they'll leave and tell someone you aren't "dealing well" with your situation. 

My thought would be to give the the clueless person response - "oh I'm sorry to hear about your friend, I'm doing great!' Then change the subject - or better yet get away from them. Sometimes I think people do this kind of thing to get you to tell them stuff about yourself, which they'll then proceed to tell everybody else.  

 Gossips are always on the prowl for something new to talk about. Whoever it was that had their cancer return probably doesn't appreciate that this person is out there yacking about it.

Anonymous

I tell them I am cured....for now.

Then I sometimes go into my microwave theory of breast cancer.

excerpt: You know it does sit on the kitchen counter or it's own stand right in front of the breast. When microwaves were first introduced it was posted on the microwave, the box, instructuions and the Nightly News, not to open them while they were running. When we moved into our new home In Choctaw, OK the microwave was built in and it was simple to push the door release which automatically turned the microwave off. However it had an on/off option, therefore it should have been used. This is also approximately the time I started to develop my BC. Then I advise them to please tell their daughters and nieces....etc.

In no way did I learn this or decide to do this to harm anyone. It just came from not wanting anyone else to go through this.

I did have one lady tell me not to wear my wig. She said "I wouldn't wear a wig." I did not say this but thought to myself, it would probably be a blessing for you not to have that mousy stringy stuff on your head. I on the other hand have always had a full head of hair and am a LEO. Leo's just cannot go anywhere without their mane.



My hair has grown back and there is less gray. TAH DAH!

Hope this helps Ruby...love the name too.

spar2

Rubyredslippers, I love that name too, it definately stands out.  I have gotten a lot of useful comebacks from this interesting thread.  I bet you did too.  Don't we have some great women on these boards and I love them all.  Hang in there friend and say and do whatever you have to to stop the neg. things people say to you.  I HATE for someone to tell me well my friend died from breast cancer, I want to slap them but fortunately I am not violent. LOL.

Anonymous

Ruby another thing I did get in the beginning was advice. Where to go, what type of treatment to try, all from individuals and family that had heard stories.

I just had to be firm with them and tell them it was my decission. When I started explaining to them what was happenming to my breast their eyes would gloss over and they would concede.

The one lady that told me to take walnut shells and boil them, then use the water as an enema, i just agreed with her and told her I would try it. LOL I mean really what else could you say! HAHAHA

helenland

The idiotic remarks of aquaintances or strangers are driving me crazy too! 

rubyredslippers

By the way, this colleague is now not really friendly to me, as I have obviously offended her by not being happy to hear her story....amazing isnt it.

Poppy

I love that if we offer a snippy comeback that it'll be perceived that we'lre not doing well. I hadn't thought of that, Rose. How about giving the person who offers a "death story" a long blank stare then asking, "Why would you tell that story to me?" There's no good answer. Maybe it'd make them think the next time. I've never done that, but I might just the next time it's obvious that the person is a total idiot!!

lilacplane68

you have to learn to be like "water off a duck's back" or as my now deceased husband used to say "consider the source."  My own sister, at a family reunion, said to me regarding my bald head "You look just like our Uncle Harry (he was in his seventies), as if I had no clue how I looked without my cap on.  That remark has stayed with me and it's now over 3 years since that thoughtless remark.  I'd like to erase it from my mind, and I think terrible thoughts, like how would she like it if it happened to her?  Not a nice thing to be thinking.  I work on just being happy to be alive and counting my blessings as much as possible. Life goes on and we can't spend out days fretting about insensitive people.