I so badly want to give up

kenzie57

Hi gals:

I so much want to give up here.  I have mets to the lungs, abdomen, spine, bone marrow.  Started Ixempra a couple of months ago.  After getting through the first round, which was very tough, blood counts came up and thought maybe the Ixempra was working.  Went to Onc today and counts are back down again.  I have no children, no signifigant other.  I do have two great sisters, but nothing that makes me want to hold on to life anymore.  I have felt this way for some time.  I am just done.  But, anytime I go the the onc, I get talked out of giving up on treatment.  My life just sucks right now.  I have no distractions and one friend that gets me out of the house maybe once a month.  I just do not see the point of putting myself through this anymore.  I have went through the past 2 wks just on the verge of tears.  I have been surfing the internet and have even thought of buying a copy of Final Exit.  I see my onc next week.  He talks me out of giving up on treatment everytime.  I guess I am asking, How the hell do you know you are really done and make it clear and have your voice heard.  I think I am really done here.  I Kinda thought a couple of weeks ago, I would stick it out after going through that first round of Ixempra.  But, even though it has gotten easier, I am still in pain.  I have constant pain in my lower stomach and down my legs.  In my mind, it is the cancer that showed up in my abdomen in my last scans.  I only started feeling this pain shortly before it showed up.  My PA tells me that is not the source as the cancer that showed up in the scans in my abdomen is too small.  But, it just doesn't make sense to me that I have this constant pain there.  I hate to be such a downer here, but, I am so down.  I feel like I have no reason to try and go on here.  Winter is coming and I'll be even more so stuck at home.  For you women that have called it quits, I am just looking for some sort of support.

Thanks,

cmharris59

Linda,

I cannot begin to know how you are feeling right now. I do know that during my brief time with BC i have contemplated stopping treatment, suicide, etc. I am single with no SO other than my cats. Somehow I always get talked into more treatment. AND mine isn't nearly as advanced as yours.

However, I looked at your profile and noticed that less than two weeks ago, you were very excited about traveling to places that you hadn't been... New Orleans.  You also talked about renting a condo on the beach and going there with your dogs.  Have you completely given up on those or are you just thinking about further down the road?

I wish I knew what to say.  I am so sorry that you are feeling down right now.  I hope that you can get better words of encouragement from others here. I am afraid that I am not very tactful nor encouraging, but you are in my thoughts.

C

Irina

I know how you feel, I feel your pain. Sorry... 1 year ago I was on chemo one year non stop. Plus I'm alone from 2004 when I was Dx with stage 3, from 2007 I'm with stage IV. I last my friends and family during this Tx. In May 2008 I feel like I'm dieing from chemo. New oncologist stop my chemo and put me on hormonal Tx. My TMs still high 4700 but I start to feel much better. I start to exercise, finish college for Medical Assistant and start RN program. I become breeder of Himalayan cats. I try to do every think to just not think about cancer.

I hope you will be better. We all have hard time

PRAYERS and (((HUGS)))

RobinTatas

Dear Kenzie57 - I can't even begin to imagine how you feel, but want you to know that your email touched my heart.  That's something, right?  Nobody should go through this stuff alone.  It sounds like you're alone on one level, but there are lots of women out here who are in a similar situation.  Please just keep reaching out and try to stay connected to those who CARE about what happens to you.   I'm miles away in experience and situation, but you will be in my thoughts for a long time to come.  Please try to focus on how good life can be once you kick cancer's slimey butt.  Love, Robin

lovinmomma

All I can do is tell you that stopping or continuing treatment is up to you. Make a pro and con list and take it to the onc and tell him that it is your decision what you do. Prayers that you feel peace with whatever decision you make.

ElaineD

I agree with lovinmomma. This is your life, your decision, and I'm appalled that any onc would deny your wishes. If you don't want to continue with treatment, that should be respected-that is a decision we all will have to make at some stage, and that decision should be respected.

dee1961

Hi Kenzie,

I am so sorry you are feeling this badly. I guess once you really make up your mind that you no longer want treatment, no one will be able to tell you otherwise. I am in Columbus Ohio so not too far from you, if you ever feel up to having someone visit, I would be glad to come meet you for coffee, tea?? I'm just a holler away

Rachel_BC

kenzie-  I want to validate your feelings and your experience first and foremost.

I know just about nothing about your condition or prognosis.  I have read here the stories of other Stage IV cancer patients, and now found an high school pal with Stage IV, but not Breast Cancer. I can not tell through the computer (and maybe couldn't face to face) what makes one cancer patient with mets want to live and another want to die. All I know is to support the decision either way.

My Mom suffered 9 years with debilitating MS. My siblings (we are not close to say the least) and I went through the nightmare of trying to figure out whether she wanted to live or die without benefit of her input- she had lost the ability to communicate years prior.  Even if she could communicate, her ability to decide was a question. 

What would stink is if you decided to die under some kind of false force. A nurse friend who was helping me fight for my mom's life or death pointed out that she herself (the nurse friend) was on a respirator for a bad asthma attack, she begged her father to let her die.  She was in her 30's , it was just an asthma attack, from which she recovered and moved on. But this kind of temporary setback can twist anyone's mind.  It is a backhanded blessing to be sure that you retain the ability to think and communicate.

To help you determine if this is your real desire, or some false force, I ask questions you don't have to answer. What kind of things make you change your mind when you go to the ONC?  Is it possible that your judgment is being affected now by a drug or a phase that will change?  I am a single woman with an 18 month old baby- yes he was my first and continuing thought in regard to cancer but I had just as much value to my life before he was born.  (I do admit, my choices for treatment would be different if I was on my own.)  Children are not the defining factor, as it could be easily argued the other way, not to burden children by staying alive.

I think we are here all saying we support your decision either way, and none of us can decide for you.  Some have offered to make your life more full with their presence.  That's an option you would not have if you decide to die, unless you decide to die maybe at some point in the future.  

One friend's mother was DX's with Stage IV lung cancer, they told her she had 4 months to live. She came out to dinner and ate all the fried foods on the menu, what did she have to lose?  She could have done all the things she was afraid to do before, parachuting, etc.  She was so sure she was going to die she had her pets put down and entered a hospice- she was also a nurse and knew a good hospice.  But then she got better (some very stupid mistake on the part of the doctors, like dehydration, made them give the wrong prognosis). They had to ask her to leave the hospice and lived for another 2 years. 

In my mother's case, the doctors removed her breathing tube expecting her to die and instead she started breathing.  So there was another year before she died.

Do you have your living will in order? Again, not for you to answer to me.

As I do not know enough about your condition, your treatment, your pain to make any choices for you, is it possible that there more than two choices here?  Maybe I have it wrong, that it's not that you want to die, but that you want to stop treatment.  That's not the same as wanting to die.  Or if you want to try a different approach, like natural cures, or prayer.

I hope for you that you get the clarity you need to move forward in whichever direction you decide.  The limbo itself must be a special hell on its own.

More love than I can possibly express.  Please forgive me if there is anything I wrote that causes you more pain. 

Rachel_BC

.

kenzie57

Thanks everyone for your response .... the trips I thought about have kind of fell through.  I still might be able to pull the one to New Orleans off.  And, I've just really been having a really bad time of it here lately with depression and not really having enough positive things to do to keep me busy.  I am trying to work on that .... I am going to make a point to get out Saturday.  It is suppose to be a beautiful day.  It's hard as the one close friend I have is very busy with her job/life and doesn't do anything without her hubby.  My sisters are here for me, but, they are just very different than me and do not enjoy doing anything.  I have reconnected with a friend from high school and am hoping she'll get out to the flea market with me on Saturday.  If not, I'll go by myself.  I am also looking into how to get my dog trained/certified for a therapy dog, however, that looks like it will be a long process.  But, I think it would help with me feeling so helpless.

Thanks again for your comments.  No one hurt my feelings and don't worry, I'm not really suicidal...  Just having a really bad day. 

dee1961

Your baby (dog) is precious! Is she/he a boxer? If you ever want to come up to cow town just to get away let me know 

konakat

I understand the single and no children situation -- we need to look elsewhere for our joy and reason for keeping up the fight. It can be very hard. Your onc shouldn't fight you, he should listen to you and help you. Perhaps someone who is experienced in palliative care, someone that is respectful of all choices, can help. Someone who can ask the right questions that will help you get to what you want and need.



Whatever you decide, we will support you. We care about you.

Love,

Elizabeth

xoxoxoxooooooooo

kenzie57

Hi Dee, Hi Elizabeth:

My baby is a french bulldog.  He would be a great therapy dog.  He weighs 22 pounds and loves to be held and loved.  And Elizabeth, I think you are right ... I really might need to speak to someone about pallitive care.  I just feel like when I see my Onc, He feels it is his job to keep me on chemo.  Of course, that is what he does.  The PA told me the last time I asked what would happen if I didnt do the chemo my option would be hospice.  That just freaked me out.  But, the more I think about it, the more accepting I am getting with it.  It is just a hard thing to wrap your brain around.  Thanks again for all of your support.  I feel like I have so little support and I turn to this board alot.  I just hope I get the opportunity to support others the way you all have supported me.  I keep telling myself, I'm not crazy, just a little insane right now.

Love to you all,

Linda

hollyann

Gentle hugs, kenzie......I too would like ot validate your thoughts and feelings.......I am not in your situation and do not know how I would react if I were...I just want to let you know you are in my thoughts and I hope you find just what you need to amke you feel comfortable.....I CAN relate to chronic pain....I ahve osteoarthritis, multiple joint pain, bone pain from Arimidex and nerve pain from neuropathy in my feet and hands form diabetes.......I have PM'd you, kenzie.....I would like to talk to you if you would......I know I have found that just finding a willing ear helps me tremendously.....I am married with a 17 yr old but they are no support.....They are tired of hearing about it and just can't take anymore........As far as being a little insane right now, I think you just described just about every cancer patient around (especially me!)..LOL......I wish you peace and lots of love...........

Fitztwins

First is the depression. Your depression is leading to these thoughts. ARe you on anything?  Constant pain can contribute to greater depression

Once that gets undercontrol.  Reask your self the question. Am I done? It is really helping? If I am not responding to treatment and it is not helping the pain, then stop.

You need to find peace in your choice. This is your choice and no one elses. I think I know when I will stop treatment...when my joy of life, family and friends is gone because the treatments or disease has closed that door. Then I will know and make my peace.

peace and hugs!

spar2

Kenzie, hop on a plane and come spend a week with me.  We can do crafts, you can help me with grandkids and all the animals, we can go to parks and lakes,  we will feed you good food and you will find a friend.  Probably several if you go to church with us on Sunday and help feed poor people on Wednesday.  It will take your mind off your troubles and help with the pain and you can bring you dog.

Janice is right it may be depression so try taking antidepressants, I have been on them for 5 years to counter the arimidex and am just now slowly going off of them.  Just know you have a friend and you are welcome here.  Sherry

kenzie57

Oh geesh, spar, fitz, how do you both stay so positive?  Thanks so much for the invite spar.  I know it is genuine.  I have thought about anti depresseants, but, I've tried them in the past and didn't like the way they made me feel.  My whole problem is boredom.  I quit my job early this year when the cancer started on the move.  I broke up with a loser boyfriend about a month ago.  I do not have any kids that stop in and break up my routine (probably sounds like a Godsend to others reading this).  Anyways, I know I need to find a way to keep myself busy.  But, that question is still there in my mind, is this treatment worth pursing any longer.  I know I am not the only one struggling with this.  When I see my Onc, of course he wants to continue with treatment.  We have talked about quality of life issues.  He just sees hope in the treatment that I am on, so it is very hard not to say O.K. to him.  My Platelet counts are back up today.  When I first posted, they were so low that I thought the treatment wasn't working.  I guess I won't really know until I have my scans done again.  So, my plan is to quit whining and continue treatment until I see what the scans say.  Not sure when I will have them, but probably in the next couple of months.  Thanks again for you guys listening to me freak out.

Love to you all,

Linda

lovemyfamilysomuch

Dear Kenzie/Linda,

I, too, offer you validation of your feelings and love and support.  I am not in your situation, but I have been very depressed during this cancer ordeal and it SUCKS!  I am happy that you have reached out to the boards, I know from experience that there are many many smart and supportive women who will be glad to listen.  Count me in as a good listener, not that I know exactly what you are going through, but that I will listen and not judge.  I lost my perspective over the winter and wasreally low, and now I am better.  Please  know that you can just be and say whatever you feel.  We have to stick together and you do have sisters on this board!

Love,

Ellen

Fitztwins

Honey, I stay positive with antidepressants, drinks and filling my time with things I enjoy. Now is the time to be selfish and do the things you love.

Janis

joaniji

Dear Linda,

Just as the women before me, I want to validate your feelings. I am so glad that you can come to this thread and release your emotions and share your thoughts. You raise very serious questions - ones that are absolutely yours to decide. I know that life seems bleak right now and I wish that I could just wave a majic wand to make life easier for you. Although you are down, I do sense some hopefulness in your posts. You seem devoted to your beloved dog, to have interests such as travelling and going to flea markets and a commitment to communicate with your friends, in person and on these boards. Perhaps these interests tell you something? I agree with Janis that depression needs to be treated; if you are depressed it is not your fault and you can be helped with the right medication and/or the right person to talk to. Above all, I wish you more peace and pleasure - you deserve it. Sending you much compassion and warmth. You are not alone.

Joani

LRM216

I hope you truly realize Spar, that you are really an angel - and I hope Kenzie allows your wings to engulf her.  What a special lady you are, dear friend.

Linda

hollyann

kenzie, hope you are feeling better today.....(((kenzie))))

MJLToday

I hope you are feeling better today, too.

I realize Ixempra is an awesome kick-cancer-ass kind of drug, but this is yet another of many posts I've read from people REALLY feeling down in the dumps while on it.  I think the oncs need to look into severe depression as a side effect of this drug, and either treat it prophylatically (in advance) or at least warn people of it coming

saint

Kenzie---I hope you are feeling better knowing your sisters here validate & support you. You asked: how/when do we know when it is right to "give up?" In my opinion you WILL know & if you are unsure then it is not time.

Ask what it is you are "giving up." Is it tx that makes you sick...... or is it life???  I don't think we should ever feel willing to give up on life (but having hit bottom more than once with this beast I know it isn't such a long trip to get to feeling like that.) I don't think you are "there"...I think you are hoping to find a reason to go on & I pray that hope will sew some seeds & grow in you.

As usual, Janis' advice is sound: look into treating depression........find some distractions & someone who will listen----we are here & we care. Keep us posted, please.

Be well & stay strong 

konakat

Hi Kenzie,

Just checking on how you are doing.  Re. anti-depressants -- I've found that the first week of so they make me feel sick, but once my body adjusts I'm fine.  Maybe your doc just needs to find the right one.  But if you don't want to try them, maybe a support group?

And, I absolutely understand the boredom -- I was laid off in April and am going nuts!!  I often wonder what the heck am I doing alone here all weekend -- it can be hard to be alone, I've had quite a few bad days lately.  I often ask myself why I bother too, just like you do.  Sometimes the only thing that keeps me going is wondering what's down the road, an adventure?  Something that will be fun and bring me joy?  It's that thought that if I give up now I might miss out on something good.  It helps.  I too, like Saint says, suspect I will know when it's time.  If I'm feeling really down, I know that not the time to make a decision.

Take care Kenzie.  And hugs to you and that adorable French Bulldog.

Elizabeth

xox

kmccraw423

Good morning Kenzie,

I can't possibly know what you are feeling about the mets.  I do, however, know about not having anyone, including children, in your life.  I also know about being so depressed I was suicidal.  As others have said, if it is depression you need treatment.  Like Elizabeth I was afraid I might miss something wonderful down the road.  I think Saint is right - you are not ready yet; I pray that you are not.  I would certainly take Spar up on her generous offer.  BTW, Spar you and Saint are Saints!

Take care Sweetie and know plenty of people care about you and love you and would want you to stick around for a while.

Love the dog - always have had a soft spot for bullies!

kenzie57

Hey gals:

Just checking in... thanks so much for your response.  Yes, I have been up and down on the decision.  I did have another treatment and have scans early next week.  It's so hard to look in the mirror and see no hair .... no eyelashes, no eyebrows no hair what so ever.  It is hard not to be depressed.  But, you all were right, I wasn't ready to give up.  Hense, the last treatment.  Guess I will wait for the scan results to see where I go from here.

Thanks to all of you for listening to me!!

Estepp

Kenzie....I am happy to hear this!!! You sweet dear lady.... I think a LOT of us will listen to you all the time... anytime you need or want us... (hug)

We are with you....

footprintsangel

And you are very special to alot of us.

God bless you, Please take care.  Gentle Hugs, Footprints

saint

Praying for good news------remember we are here & we care!

Be well & stay strong 

kbugmom

Kenzie hang tough. Praying for some great news. Fight and do not bow to bc.