Does anyone say no to Tamoxifen

vivre

Maria-if you doctor is open to alternatives, please ask her to read the work of Dr. David Brownstien and his research on the role of thyroid and iodine and breast cancer. Also, ask her to read about the research of Dr. John Lee and the role of progesterone and hormone balance. More and more doctors are finding these protocols are having a lot of success. The only way we are going to have a more holistic approach to prevention is to get more doctors on board. It will take all of us, choosing this route, and proving they work to get doctors to change their mind, since we cannot compete against the millions of $$$ drug companies have to spend to convince doctors that they have the miracle drug. Every drug has a side effect. Giving our bodies what mother nature has deemed we need for us to stay healthy is something we can only determine as individuals. Unfortunately, main stream medicine treats us all as statistics. I still get so mad when I think of how my doctor (whom I really do like btw) threw all these stats at me, if I did this or that. Well, I am not a statistic and I got so frustrated that she could not answer any of my questions about alternatives. I sure hope that someday, they are taught to look at every angle and not just the one drug companies are pushing. I think we will be THEIR teachers.

debintn749

vivre, can you tell me about the iodine? What form and how much? Ok so Vitamin D also, as a supplement or natural sunlight? I have to back to the BS on the 15th and I know he is going to give me a hard time on the Tamox thing, which, i dont want to take. Im so dreading this conversation. All this has happened so fast. Dx on 8/24, lumpectomy on 9/04 the mx on 9/15 date with PS on 10/12- and then the tamox argument. I can hardly wrap my head around it all. When I go somewhere i feel like im a mutant, defective and everyone else is ok. Have to keep telling myself the cancer is GONE, the breast is gone too, but if im on tamox im going to worry that much more with all the SEs. Does anyone else feel like that? I know Im lucky. But why does this have to consume every thing

Merilee

One of the wicked things that breast caner does is it robs us of our peace of mind. The best way to get that back is to take charge of the situation and make your own decisions after consulting with your doctors, reading all you can get your hands on and coming here to benefit from those who are a bit farther down the road and have learned some things to share. This site has been a big help in my peace of mind. I don't think a doctor who has not had BC can understand what it is like and why we question. If they had to stand in our shoes, they may think differently, Easy to say you would do this or that but when you have to actually have to live it, and your life is on the line, you do need to doubt and ask and ask some more.

Member_of_the_Club

I've gotta disagree.  I don't think there are any threads about the wonders of tamoxifen.  I fear that the relentless drumbeat on several of these threads will dissuade women from taking medications that could help them a great deal.  I understand that women who are stage IV, or younger women with bc, need a support like group but women who are choosing not to take tamoxifen?  Putting it in a more affirmative way, I can understand why women pursuing alternative approaches wouldn't want someone like me on the alt section.  I have not pursued alternative treatments (though i did participate in a vegetarian discussion because I've been a vegetarian for 25 years.) .  But in other sections it is very common for women to post things like "I want to skip chemo," and to have responses from women who went through chemo saying "I know it sucks but its not as bad as you imagine and it could save your life, you can do it."  This happens all the time.  Its not as if when someone posts "I want to skip chemo," only women who have skipped chemo should be able to post.  

 If it were me I would want to hear all sides of the issue.  If I were a newbie deciding about tamoxifen I would want to know that many women tolerate it quite well.  I don't think anyone who has made a different decision and is comfortable with it should feel threatened by that.   

vivre

Member, could you please just start your own thread so you can help those who want to go in that direction? 

"Does anyone say yes to tamoxifen" and leave this one alone?

Thank you!

Deb 79-I am taking 50 mg of iodine now, but you have to work up to that much. Some people need more. You can get an iodine loading test from breastcancerchoices.org and it will help you determine what you will need. After supplementing a while, you do the test again to see what your saturation rate is. You need to find a local doctor who can help you read the information. Look for a compounding pharmacist for Dr.recommendations. Taking iodine is a decision that you need to totally understand. If you get Dr. Brownstein's book "Iodine, Why you need it and why you can't live without it", you will learn all about it. Make sure you get the newest edition. You will find a lot of information on the iodine thread too. Don't lose hope. We remember all too well how it felt at the beginning. As Merilee said, the more you learn, the less you will fear. I never thought I would "get over it" but I really have. Now I am proud that I beat cancer and did not let it beat me. By making a committment to changing everything that I can to live a healthier lifestyle, I feel that I have balanced everything in my mind and body. I do not believe cancer can thrive in a healthy environment. I use to think I was healthy, but I have come to realize that I was not. But now I am!

debintn749

How long does it take to say"i beat it?" I am 43 years old. People, wellwishers, bringing in me baskets of food and it hurts me bc i think, oh they think im dying... I know I am cancer free due to my surgery. I had extensive DCIS. No lymph node involvement. Please let me know I will be able to get on with life without this shadow. I hear good and bad the more I read. Scared sometimes to read farther. I am a semi professional dart thrower. I recieve a newsletter today and in it 2 memoriums about 2 ladies who lost their long battle with BC. And here I sit 43 thinking will it slowly just eat away and take me? I feel if I take the tamox, its a toxin that will throw off the balance of natural body function. Its not about tolerating it....duh-it a matter of do I really need it in the first place. Thank you for your encouragement, i need it, need to know I will go PAST this

Merilee

Yes you will get passed it.  I had breast cancer 9 months ago. I am healthy and moving on with my life now. I tried the tamoxifen and could not tolerate it so I looked for other solutions which I have found and am happy with.

Anonymous

I've seen a couple of posts lately from women agonizing over the decision to take or not take the Tamoxifen, and people have responded without necessarily mentioning the details of the persons' diagnosis, and the impact that could have on the decision to take or not to take Tamoxifen.  First, the risk/benefit ratio is significantly different for women who have invasive or metastatic disease than for those who have a family history or DCIS. 

My pharmacy includes a double sided sheet of cautions about taking the drug that only apply to those who are using it for prevention or DCIS.  In very large lettering, it says to disregard all those cautions if you are taking it to treat invasive disease, since in that instance, the benefits significantly outweigh the risk for most people. 

Of course, if you have other underlying medical conditions that put you at higher risk of things like blood clots, or are already starting to develop cataracts, then for you personally, the risks might well outweigh the benefits even if you have invasive disease.  That is a huge reason for you to fully discuss this medication and your personal medical history with your oncologist.  If you aren't getting the answers you need from your oncologist, then you might want to consider finding a new one because you literally need to trust that oncologist with your life.

Also, there are a number of hormone treatments for hormone receptor positive breast cancer.  Tamoxifen can be used by pre-menopausal women, and is considered to be protective of bones because it works like a weak hormone.  Aromatase Inhibitors can only be used by post menopausal women, and block the tiny amounts of estrogen that continue to be manufactured by the adrenal glands and other organs after menopause. 

Whether you decide to include Tamoxifen in your treatment plan or not, you can still do all kinds of things to reduce your risk of recurrence including reducing/eliminating alcohol, improving your diet, and maintaining a healthy weight.  There are also all kinds of things that you might find helpful on the complimentary and alternative medicine threads.  Natural girls is a good thread to start with.

We each need to find the balance that works for us, for our peace of mind, and the tolerances of our bodies.

Member_of_the_Club

I was already starting to develop cataracts when i went on tamoxifen and they have gotten a bit worse, i am told, but I certainly haven't noticed anything.  I was never told that tamoxifen would be a problem.  interesting.  I think blood clots are a much, much bigger deal.

 People who don't question the recommendation to use tamoxifen don't need nor will they read a thread about deciding to take tamoxifen.  Someone started this thread with a question and if my answer is different from yours, why should that threaten you?  The whole point of such a question is to receive various points of view.  I would be the first person to say that a woman with DCIS or LCIS should think long and hard about whether tamoxifen is worth it.  

KEW

I have to say I'm with Member on this one.  Virve, if you cannot withstand an opposing opinion or questions, maybe you should start your own thread entitled "everyone who thinks like me."

I would like you to address iodine posining, the threashold is very low from what is safe and what is not. Check out this link http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/002658.htm 

Can you explain this to me? 

I am sincerely curious about how to look at this.  It is one thing getting something naturally in foods with all the constituent nutrients, than it is in taking something that is not how our bodies were designed to utilize it.  Why don't you just eat sushi several times a week, or add seaweed to soups?  Why are people taking DIM instead of eating whole healthy foods?  Not trying to start something, I just really want to understand.  I mean it isn't really natural to be getting nutrients other than through ingesting them as whole foods, we don't really know what it does to our bodies to ingest them out of context.

Oh, my pharmacy also includes the same two pager that Patmom mentioned. 

Thanks,

Karen 

MarieKelly

Member, I'm pleasantly surprised to read that you think those with in situ disease should think long and hard about the worth of tamoxifen for them. Glad to hear you say so. 

I wasn't told about tamoxifen side effects by my first oncologist either - not about clotting issues nor any other potential problems.  When I raised the concerns myself, he cut me off immediately and said "there are no problems with tamoxifen". Thankfully I knew better and didn't listen to him. 

I have a heart valve problem caused by taking that infamous diet drug combo for over two years. Twice in the last 5 -6 years, I've temporarily lost vision in my right eye due to a condition called amaurosis fugax. The most common cause is plaque breaking off from one of the carotid arteries that then enters the blood stream and lodges in a retinal artery (my carotids by ultrasound were clean as a whistle), but another cause is plague-like material on a heart valve - which I have because of those diet drugs. I've been taking a 325 mg aspirin daily ever since to keep the blood thinned out enough to hopefully prevent it from happening again. That oncologist knew about this problem (because I told him) yet still insisted I should take tamoxifen and that there were no significant problems with it. The next oncologist confirmed what I already knew... very, VERY bad idea for me to take tamoxifen. What would have happened to me if I hadn't known better than to refuse the tamoxifen. I shudder to think. Blindness, a stroke?

Some doctors are down right dangerous - even some of the most prestigious. And unfortunately, there's far too many of them out there.  

Dawnbelle

The girl who started this thread decided NOT to take Tamoxifen. She has not posted on this thread since May. So, I will be arrogant and assume that the new posts are being made by new girls facing the Tamoxifen choice. Or old girls preaching their own Tamoxifen beliefs.

Either way, I don't see it as an anti-Tamoxifen thread, it is in the hormone therapy section. I see it as I am making a choice, help me thread.

I understand people popping in telling you what an idiot you are can be annoying....BUT~in this instance I believe the OP was asking if anyone actually said no.

There are threads all over about healthy alternatives to Tamoxifen, DIM.,Iodine & all kinds of hormonal cream you can spread on to cure what ails ya.

But, for one girl to tell another girl she has no right to voice an opinion, makes me wonder who made any one of us any more important than the next?

Electroconvulsive therapy (electroshock) was standard of care for depression in the 50's.

It was even safe for use during pregnancy!! Woohoo!!

What? Really?

I have no doubts, in 50 years, they will look back at our standard of care for breast cancer with the same horror. Will I take Tamoxifen? NOPE.

Will we all have a group hug & be friends? NOPE.

Because we get defensive. I kept a breast, when a bi-lat girl expresses how illogical that is, I take offense. I didn't do chemo, when a chemo girl tells me I didn't do everything I could to fight this beast, I take offense. When you decide not to take Tamoxifen & other girls say they take it, you take offense.

No-one has the answers, women are still getting breast cancer, women are still dying of breast cancer. Maybe iodine is a cure. Maybe broccoli is a cure. They can't patent it & sell it, so...we'll never know.

I flipped off a shelf full of pink Tide, pink Downey & pink Snuggle fabric softner today. (you know the finger, the bird?) Yep, right in Target. Lady in front of me in line with her pink hat & pink ribbon t-shirt snarled at me like I was a beast. Should I have taken the sock out of my bra where my boob use to be and let her know it was okay I hate pink?

Nope, it is easier to come back here and rant at all of you, who will in turn, rant back.

But you'll understand, and although we disagree sometimes, IF I needed my friends here. I have NO doubts you would come to me. Hell, I have no doubts that even some of you who don't like me would come. I would come to each of you, with-out question, if you needed me.

Now, my vegetarian, non~Tamoxifen, progesterone needing, natural girl butt is popping an Ambien or a Xanax and going to bed. It is 3 am.

Merilee

Lmao

Debbi5108

Hello All, I am deliberating on the Tamox issue as I am supposed to take it for 5 tears however, I have a grandchild due very soon and will be the primary caregiver while my daughter finishes school, my point if Tamox is going to make me feel bad then that would not be good, I worry about being allergic to it as I am allergic to alot of things including Benadryl, Honestly I am scared is what it boils down to. I have had lots of things going on like just had the exchange surgery the 3rd of Sept, My husband left me the 2nd of Sept and I really don't need to not feel well or maybe its that I don't want to take the chance it will make me feel bad I am not sure. I can say I came here to get info so I must say That people WILL look at this thread while trying to make a decision but, want both sides . So thank you all

melissa-5-19

DawnBelle you have MADE MY DAY- AND SO EARLY! 

 We should NOT judge others decisions- frankly my dear I do not give a damn what one other person thinks of my choices because it is MY CA and MY chest and MY treatment- so there- however likewise I respect their decisions to their care plan because it is their's and they have to live with it. I SUPPORT YOU ALL, GO FOR IT.

As for the endless supply of PINK SHI- , what percentage is actually going to CA research? How about it paying for the co-pays of the ladies less fortunate that I? How about we advance from the mamomoslam, breast pressing "don't Breath" (like one could!!) that missed all my DCIS-? How about we all get an RX for xanax-  immediately with the DX? If you don't want to take it you don't have too BUT those that need it would NOT HAVE TO BEG or SHOP AROUND- they would just have it???? How about that on a pink prescription pad? And I am sure others could add to this "immediate needs list" feel free............

now can anyone tell me the normal ranges for estrogen and progesterone receptors on tissue samples? Lab report oddly does not list this value and lab reports generally do list normals- so I am confused.

LONG HUGS TO ALL, I NEED IT, YOU NEED IT, THEY NEED IT- have a great day- now go kick some as-.

MarieKelly

I don't know about progesterone receptivity, but I wondered about that myself some years ago and found one source that said the percent of  ER positive cells in normal breast tissue ranges from 4-15% and that they are scattered throughout the breast tissue and surrounded by ER negative cells. Since estrogen receptor positivity increases with age, I would assume menopausal women would probably be on the upper end of that 4-15% bracket. 

anondenet

Kew,

The Medline notation on iodine refers to tincture of iodine being poisonous if swallowed. What is poisonous is the wood alcohol in the ticture, not the iodine. If the same amount of potassium iodine was mixed with water (chemically referred to as a "solution") it might irritate the stomach, but it would not be toxic.

I commend you for trying to get iodine from foods but unless you eat four pounds of ocean fish per day or five servings of iodine-rich seaweeds, you won't be getting an adequate amount. By adequate, I mean you won't be getting as much iodine as the low breast cancer Japanese eat.

The main reason we are so deficient in iodine is that iodine was taken out of the food supply in the 1970s and (in wheat) replaced with bromide. Bromide creates an iodine deficiency because it competes with iodine.

Our iodine deficiencies are man made. That is why thyroid and breast cancers are skyrocketing.

As an aside, Iodine has been used for breast disease since the 1830s.

anom

Dawnbelle

anom.

What were people eating as a source of iodine before they started adding it to salt?

I can't imagine how much table salt you would have to use to get enough iodine...but lack of was causing illness way back in the day was it not?

Several of the rarer sea salts I have in my kitchen are labeled "Not a source of Iodine".

anondenet

Back in the day, people did not have bromide purging iodine the way we do now:

• Bromide in flour purges iodine
• Bromide fire retardants in mattresses, carpets, car interiors, electronics, medicines, cosmetics.
• Fluoridated water purges iodine.
• Chlorine purges iodine.

So iodine deficiency was less because we didn't have the iodine purgers around 40 years ago.

Even then, there were pockets of iodine deficient soil in the US. Think about the Goiter Belt where in the early 1900s half of the girls got goiters when they reached puberty and developed breasts which took iodine away from their thyroids. Iodized salt was introduced in 1924 for goiter prevention only.

Read Dr. David Brownstein's book on iodine. The info is all there and many other scholarly and mainstream papers.

Also, see this short video:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EoMfg76gAUo

anom

scrapmom40

Skippy - I just wanted to say good luck with the Tamoxifen.  I have been on it for a year and 3 mos. and the side-effects are bearable.  I had hot flashes in the first couple of months, but then they died down.  I was not a great sleeper even before my BC dx and the tam so I cannot say it interferes with my sleep.  I did have some weight gain issues (gained 20 lbs. over the last year), but I have changed my diet and started exercising and have lost 13 lbs with 7 more to go.  I did start taking Effexor for the "moodiness" and "blues".  It seems to help.  Sometimes I am still a b*tch, but I do still get my period just not every month.  I think everyone is different so you cannot go by what side-effects other people have.  I think you are doing the right thing by trying it and seeing what happens.  My oncologist said there are benefits even just to take it for one year or two years if I decided I could not take it for 5 years.  Things are going OK, so I am planning on trying to hang in there and do all 5 years.  Best of luck to you.

Karen

PS73

Well said Britt.  I am preparing to 'say no to tamoxifen' tomorrow at my onc meeting prior to treatment. 

Any fightin words to advise??  xo

anondenet

PS73,

You can say, "I've decided not to take Tamoxifen."

If he/she asks why, you can say you'd "rather not explain." Period. Don't get sucked into defending your decision or explaining that the statistics are too weak. Take control of the discussion and move on to the next subject.

You don't need to apologize or explain to someone you've hired as a consultant. 

They may be pleasant and well-meaning but it's not their body.

Dawnbelle

When I think of the most powerful words I have heard since I have been Dx;

I am afraid to admit they came from Suzanne Somers.

She said "You can use 50 year old medicine and 50 year old standard of care or you can pay attention to what your body is saying". "What these doctors do is cutting edge".

That is why I find that electroshock was so common place just 50 years ago so shocking. Tamoxifen has been used since when? 1973. Apparently we are due for a change.

Really? Nothing new since the 70's for BC?

All this pink? All this money? My insurance won't pay for progesterone cream, but they will pay for a 40K chemo treatment. So? My point? They wouldn't pay for my Rx when I was trying to stop smoking either, I made a smartarse comment to them "Like cancer would be cheaper"?

HA! I taught them!

Mandy1313

Adomdenet: Just a question.  You said that even if we eat 4 pounds of fish a day, we won't get the iodine of the Japanese diet. I have added dried wakame flakes (sea weed) to my diet....according to the wrapper, 1 teaspoon provides 160 % of the needed amount but of course they do not give a hard figure on the needed amount.  How much sea weed do the Japanese eat on a daily basis?  Do you have any idea what their other sources are?

fairy49

Explanation of DIM.........its not just a supplement to take instead of eating broccoli.........

DIM and Estrogen Receptor Tumor Growth

DIM has a unique ability to affect estrogen metabolism.  Normally, estrogen metabolizes along one of two very distinct pathways, one pathway leads to tumor growth, and the second leads to tumor suppression.  One physician hypothesizes that this second pathway may prevent estrogen from entering certain cellular receptor sites causing tumor growth.

As DIM works to regulate hormones by increasing the body's production of healthy estrogen by decreasing the undesirable forms, cells are protected and tumor growth is inhibited.  It is important to remember that there are different forms of the three main estrogens that are important to women and they are estradiol, estrone, and estriol.

Research involving DIM has identified two good estrogens, 2-hydroxy estradiol and 2-hydroxy estrone. These are the antioxidants of the estrogen world and induce the self-destruction of tumor cells. When these two estrogens are low, tumor growth is more likely to occur. DIM increases the body's production of these healthy estrogens.

Supplementing with DIM helps reduce the estrogen metabolites now known to be responsible for the cancer initiating and cancer promoting effects of estrogen by lowering the two bad forms, 16-hydroxy estrone and 4-hydroxy estrone, which are linked to tumor growth.  These so called "bad" estrogens can have a negative impact by allowing oxidation of cells, damage of DNA, and the promotion of cancer.  It can be said that DIM interferes with cells that are prone to divide and grow in the presence of these two particular forms of estrogen. 

In short, DIM increases the good estrogens, and decreases the bad estrogens. Research suggests DIM may reduce the risk of breast, uterine, cervical, and prostate cancers. These cancers are estrogen related and that is why it is so important to reduce estrogen dominance in both women and men.  The following chart demonstrates how estrogen is metabolized into its beneficial forms:

---

Mandy1313

Thanks for that explanation Fairy49. 

fairy49

Here is more, I am sorry its long, but I think its important to know, that this is not just a supplement, and if you choose to not take tamoxifen, you may be interested...........DIM Clinical Applications and ResearchDIM is currently used to treat Recurring Respiratory Papillomatosis caused by the Human Papilloma Virus and is in Phase III clinical trials for Cervical Dysplasia at 2mg/kg of body weight. Cervical Dysplasia is a precancerous condition also caused by the Human Papilloma Virus. Until recently, DIM's biological mode of action for these conditions was not clearly understood, until scientists discovered that DIM is a potent modulator of the innate immune response system, which then placed DIM's anti-viral activity against the Human Papilloma Virus in perspective.

As a result of this discovery, DIM is currently sold as an Immune Enhancing Supplement and it is under investigation as a therapeutic for viral and bacterial infections (including HIV, HPV, Hepatitis, Influenza, the Pandemic Flu and antibiotic resistant bacteria), immune deficiency conditions and multiple forms of cancer. DIM's primary immune modulatory mode of action is the stimulation of Interferon-Gamma receptor transcription as well as the production of Interferon-Gamma. DIM has also been shown to synergize with Interferon-Gamma in the potentiation of the MHC-I Complex.

Its multitude of favorable biological activities such as immune modulation, apoptosis and suppression of inflammation (NFkB) are among the reasons why the National Cancer Institute has begun clinical studies of DIM for multiple forms of cancer.

Another significant discovery that has recently been made about DIM that has fueled international interest in this unique phytochemical is its synergy with the number one cancer drug worldwide (Taxol) in the promotion of apoptosis. This discovery has paved the way for the investigation of DIM as an adjuvant therapeutic to Taxol to reduce patient resistance to this important drug. (Taxol is another plant-derived chemical that was discovered in and extracted from the Pacific Yew Tree.)

UC Berkeley faculty members Dr. Leonard Bjeldanes, Professor and former Chairman of the Nutritional Sciences and Toxicology Department, and Dr. Gary Firestone, Director of the NIH Cancer Biology Program and Professor of the Molecular and Cell Biology Department, have focused on DIM research at Berkeley for over two decades and have elucidated many of its principal molecular mechanisms of action.

In addition to elucidating DIM's molecular mechanisms of action, Dr. Bjeldanes and Dr. Firestone conducted a human clinical trial of DIM and demonstrated that it increases the 2-hydroxylation of estrogen metabolites a study that received a lot of media attention as oncologists believe that this activity helps to reduce the risk of breast and prostate cancer. Abstracts of two papers on this subject are provided below.

Pilot study: effect of 3,3'diindolylmethane supplements on urinary hormone metabolites in postmenopausal women with a history of early-stage breast cancer. Journal of Nutrition and Cancer. 2004;50(2):161-7. Dalessandri KM, Firestone GL, Fitch MD, Bradlow HL, Bjeldanes LF Department of Molecular and Cell Biology, University of California, Berkeley, 94720-3200, USA.

Dietary indoles, present in Brassica plants such as cabbage, broccoli, and Brussels sprouts, have been shown to provide potential protection against hormone-dependent cancers. 3,3'-Diindolylmethane(DIM) is under study as one of the main protective indole metabolites. Postmenopausal women aged 50-70 yr from Marin County, California, with a history of early-stage breast cancer, were screened for interest and eligibility in this pilot study on the effect of DIM supplements on urinary hormone metabolites. The treatment group received daily DIM (108 mg DIM/day) supplements for 30 days, and the control group received a placebo capsule daily for 30 days. Urinary metabolite analysis included 2-hydroxyestrone (2-OHE1), 16-alpha hydroxyestrone (16alpha-OHE1), DIM, estrone (El), estradiol(E2), estriol (E3), 6beta-hydroxycortisol (6beta-OHC), and cortisol in the first morning urine sample before intervention and 31 days after intervention. Nineteen women completed the study,for a total of 10 in the treatment group and 9 in the placebo group. DIM-treated subjects, relative to placebo, showed a significant increase in levels of 2-OHE1 (P=0. 020), DIM (P =0. 045), and cortisol (P = 0.039), and an increase of 47% in the 2-OHE1/16alpha-OHE1 ratio from 1.46 to 2.14 (P=0.059). In this pilot study, DIM increased the 2-hydroxylation of estrogen urinary metabolites.

Estrogen metabolism and risk of breast cancer: a prospective study of the 2:16alpha-hydroxyestrone ratio in premenopausal and postmenopausal women. Epidemiology. 2000 Nov;11(6):635-40. Muti P, Bradlow HL, Micheli A, Krogh V, Freudenheim JL, Schunemann HJ, Stanulla M, Yang J, Sepkovic DW, Trevisan M, Berrino F. Department of Social and Preventive Medicine, University at Buffalo, State University of New York at Buffalo, Buffalo, NY, USA, Epidemiology Division of the National Cancer Intitute (Istituto Nazionale Tumori), Milan, Italy, Department of Pediatric Hematology and Oncology, Medical School of Hannover, Hannover, Germany.

Experimental and clinical evidence suggests that 16alpha-hydroxylated estrogen metabolites, biologically strong estrogens, are associated with breast cancer risk, while 2-hydroxylated metabolites, with lower estrogenic activity, are weakly related to this disease. This study analyzes the association of breast cancer risk with estrogen metabolism, expressed as the ratio of 2-hydroxyestrone to 16alpha-hydroxyestrone, in a prospective nested case-control study. Between 1987 and 1992, 10,786 women (ages 35-69 years) were recruited to a prospective study on breast cancer in Italy, the "Hormones and Diet in the Etiology of Breast Cancer" (ORDET) study. Women with a history of cancer and women on hormone therapy were excluded at baseline. At recruitment, overnight urine was collected from all participants and stored at -80 degrees C. After an average of 5.5 years of follow-up, 144 breast cancer cases and four matched controls for each case were identified among the participants of the cohort. Among premenopausal women, a higher ratio of 2-hydroxyestrone to 16alpha-hydroxyestrone at baseline was associated with a reduced risk of breast cancer: women in the highest quintile of the ratio had an adjusted odds ratio (OR) for breast cancer of 0.58 [95% confidence interval (CI) = 0.25-1.34]. The corresponding adjusted OR in postmenopausal women was 1.29 (95% CI = 0.53-3.10). Results of this prospective study support the hypothesis that the estrogen metabolism pathway favoring 2-hydroxylation over 16alpha-hydroxylation is associated with a reduced risk of invasive breast cancer risk in premenopausal women.

KEW

Anom and Lorraine,

Thank you for the explanations.  I find them to be very helpful.

 Karen

nealeann

I had a double MX in June I had both DCIS and LCIS, after the mastectomy I was put on Tomax.  I had menopausal side effects and terrible anxiety, crying fear etc. None of you know me but I have never been much of a crier, in my family while crying we also find laughter.  I also lost interest in my husband of 29 years and that bothered me a great deal.  I spoke to my Onc and he said go off it, we may revisit it later and we may not.  I suppose what I am saying is I am glad I tried it and I am not sorry to be off it but without trying I would have no way of knowing if it was for me or not.  The nice thing is I still haven't started my periods again but my Gyno has me on progesterone to try and correct that, yea.  We all need to do what is right for us as individuals, this is a journey and there is no one way that is right or on way that is wrong.  Thanks to all who have shared at this site the ones that are Pro Tomax and those who aren't.  Heads up ladies and full steam ahead.

PS73

Thanks Lorraine!  Great information!