Need vegetarian advice

yellowrose

Since my diagnosis, I have severely limited my meats.  If it wasn't for fish/seafood, I would be vegetarian.  I have always tried to eat a balanced diet but with diet changes decided to start tracking carbs, fats, and proteins.  I discovered that more often than not I am not meeting the protein requirement and getting too many carbs thanks to the beans I am incorporating to try to up the proteins.

 I am strongly ER/PR + so have to be careful of soy as well.  Any advice for raising protein intake without overtaxing carbs? 

lexislove

Good question...

I'm right where you are too. I'm running out of food ideas and gettingt sick of chicken and fish.

FYI I've decided to cut out red / fatty meats.

I usually do vegi chillis with the beans, BUT I am trying to loose some extra weight as well and lower carb / sugar consumption. AND I'm Er+ so I avoid soy products!!!!  UGHH......

I do hope someone else can give some suggestions

AccidentalTourist

Thai green and red vegetable curries can be very good.  There are lots of recipes on the web but buying a good quality paste (in a glass jar) will help.  Otherwise just stir fry any vegetables you may have (mushrooms are a good source of protein) add coconut milk and season with a paste.  I also add a bit of rice flout to thicken the coconut milk based sauce. Yummy.

mom_of_2

I am a 12+ year vegetarian and protein has always been an issue. Besides legumes try quinona (grain). It is loaded in protein and amino acids and one serving contains 44% daily recommended fiber. Would love some other suggestion...I've started to eat eggs and spoonfuls of peanut butter to add more protein.

crazy4carrots

Yellowrose:  I don'[t know how you feel about chicken, but I actually use a lot of low-sodium chicken broth in vegetable soups.  DH and I have red meat very seldom, but we do eat chicken occasionally, as well as fish.

Like Mom of 2, we also eat quinoa -- so easy to prepare and with tasty veggies such as onions, peppers etc., it makes a very filling meal.

I have several vegetarian cookbooks, but the downside is that most of the recipes require a lot of prep! 

Linda

yellowrose

Thanks for the suggestions.  I live in an area with many carnivores and few herbivores so I have to drive about 1 1/2 hours to get to Whole Foods Market.  I am not familiar with quinona.  I will look for it.  Any suggestions on how to prepare/incorporate it into a meal?

I too, have incorporated more eggs and natural peanut butter into my diet.  Also more Morning Star foods (passable taste) and Boca (the chili isn't too bad).  I am trying very hard to avoid processed foods so don't use them much.  Amy's Organic Meals taste pretty good but, again, don't want to depend on too many processed foods.

I have never tried Thai vegetable curries either, being from Texas, sounds intriguing.  My DH likes Thai food so MAYBE I can get that big carnivore to eat more veggies! 

Maybe it's me and my limited knowledge of a vegetarian lifestyle, but the diet seems to be somewhat predictable and non-varied.  Is my ignorance showing?    How do you handle eating out at friends and restaurants?

Iza

***DISCLAIMER: NON-VEGETARIAN POINT OF VIEW FOLLOWS***

Hello, Yellowrose and others,

I truly do not wish to stir any controversy on this thread that specifically calls for vegetarian input. I would just like to add to the conversation in the most respectful and constructive of spirits. What follows is a summary of my own nutritional journey that took me to vegetarianism and back, and an account of where I currently stand. Please stop reading here if this disturbs you.

I finished treatment (triple negative, positive nodes) in the summer of 2006 and wanted to do whatever I could to improve my lifestyle habits and lower my risk of recurrence. After some research, I decided to become a vegetarian, for both health and ethical reasons. I was a vegetarian/almost vegan for about two years (until last summer).

At that time, and precisely because I kept reading and educating myself in everything related to nutrition, I came across a book ("Real Food", by Nina Planck) that forced me to revisit what I thought was the basics of healthy nutrition. I started to explore websites like westonaprice.org and eatwild.com, and I realized something that dramatically changed my way to eat: it is not "meat" or "dairy" or "eggs" what is harmful, it is "unhealthy meat" and "unhealthy dairy" and "unhealthy eggs." In other words, commercially produced foods.

Meat coming from feedlot animals, and specifically from cattle that are fed grains, is unhealthy. Cattle did not evolve to digest grains, but grass. A grain-based diet causes cattle to become sick, which is bad enough by itself and also causes the owners to give them antibiotics, etc. 

The kind of meat our great-grandparents ate (once in a while, which is still a good rule of thumb), from happy cows that eat grass out in the fields, is a healthful source of protein and of the right kind of fats, too. 

The same is true of dairy: milk and butter from grass-fed animals is way more nutritious (and healthy) than commercially-produced milk. As to eggs, there is a huge difference between coming from battery-raised hens versus hens that are allowed to eat bugs and all kinds of fooks traditionally found in a field.There are many studies that show this.

This way of raising animals, on a very small scale and allowing them a happy life, is also a much more humane way, much closer to a mutually beneficial alliance between animals and humans than to exploitation.

I now eat ***some*** meat and chicken, but only from small farms, and only grass-fed. And I eat pastured eggs and drink grass-fed milk daily. I have totally cut off processed foods and very specifically anything that contains powdered eggs or milk (those are tremendously harmful!).

This diet, which by the way is not far from what out great-grandparents ate and has withstood the test of time over thousands of years, is what I think gives me the best chance of staying healthy for a long time. 

I hope I have not offended anyone, and I hope I have at least provided a couple of leads for anyone interested in learning more. 

crazy4carrots

Iza, I agree with you!  Just finished reading Michael Pollan's new book "In Defense of Food" and, while the subtitle is "Eat Food, Not Much, Mostly Plants", he echoes what you have just said.  Haven't read his other book, "The Omnivore's Dilemma", but will soon.

But, unless we have easy access to pastured meat, milk and eggs, it becomes difficult (not to mention very expensive) to follow through.  That's why I've searched for alternatives to meat, although I can buy organically raised chicken easily.  Also grow most of my veggies so I know what goes into the soil!

Good advice is to stick to the outside aisles of your grocery store and stay away from the inside (processed food) aisles -- and save money at the same time!

Yellowrose:  Do you ever check out the website www.epicurious.com ?  It has some good recipes for quinoa.

everyminute

whole foods has a website with great recieps too - wish we had one near us.

For those who are er+ and avoiding soy - becareful of boca burgers, veggie burgers, etc - alot of them do have soy

yellowrose

Iza,  I do understand what you are saying in regard to meats and how the animals are fed and the way foods are processed.

As a Texan whose family ties have been involved with cattle for several generations, I have seen first-hand the changes that have occurred in the food-chain in the last 40 years.  Organic is definitely the way to go for people who are carnivores.  I do eat organic on occasion.  With the spiriling economy, it is not financially feasible for many of us to incorporate organic meats on a regular basis. 

In order to have a healthy life, this means that I have to choose other options open to me.  That is why I have chosen a mostly vegetarian lifestyle.  Opting to not eat processed foods as often as possible.  Again, finances, must be a factor in our diet choices. 

Life is all about keeping the teeter-totter in balance, even though our arms are chock full of the gifts (welcome and unwelcomed) that life throws at us.  So that takes me back to my original query...suggestions for healthy protein options in a limited meat diet.

Edited for spelling.

althea

I've done a considerable amount of reading over the last two years just trying to figure out what is the healthiest diet for me to follow.  The information is all over the place!  I too read In Defense of Food and found it fascinating, in a train wreck sort of way.  About the only thing that all the authors agree upon is that processed food is the enemy to good health. 

Right now I'm reading Raw Food Life Force Energy by Natalia Rose.  She includes fish and goat cheese, so it's not a totally vegetarian diet, but most of it is plant-based.  What I find most interesting is her assertion that foods can be combined for 'quick exits' and that poorly combined meals, or meal with lots of animal products are very difficult to digest, thus draining our energy.  Protein, for example, is present in leafy green vegetables, and it has the advantage of assimilating.  Protein from animal sources also have protein, but so much energy is required to digest the material, that we're losing out on benefits.  

A brief quote from this book on protein "Leafy greens, green vegetable juice, sea vegetables, raw nuts and nut butters, and raw goat cheese are all rich in protein.  You can still eat flesh products as desired in this diet lifestyle as long as they are well combined, but remember that cooked flesh is a damaged protein and therefore not an ideal source.  Among the flesh products, organic free-range eggs and fish are easiest on the body and therefore better for weight loss and energy." 

She divides food into five categories:  starches, fleshes (includes eggs and cheese), nuts/seeds, dried fruits, fresh fruits.  In a nutshell, like combines with like; don't combine the different categories in one meal.  She lays out a 21-day plan for getting on board with this, complete with recipes.  I tried a 'taco' recipe that used romaine lettuce for the shell instead of a grain tortilla.  I have to say, I felt very satisfied without any heavy feeling whatsoever along the digestive tract.  

Best of all, she recommends dark chocolate for dessert!  lol  Boy howdy, I can tell you if I get my thyroid in balance and lose some weight from following this, I'll be sure to come back and tell you all about it.  As of now, I'm just sharing information from my library book du jour.  

baywatcher

Yellowrose-

What percentage of protein are you wanting to incorporate in your diet? I am a vegan and I get all my protein from a plant based diet. According to recent studies, your body does not need anymore than 10% protein. Excess protein is actually a cancer promoter. You can find many vegetarian books at the library or get recipes online.

yellowrose

Well, I have been tracking my caloric intake for over a year to lose weight.  Only recently started paying more attention to the mix of protein, fat and carbs.  For my caloric intake, I should be getting 60-100 grams of protein.  I am averaging about 50-55 (just under the minimum) but am constantly fighting to stay within my carb guidelines of 160-185. I have found on a vegetarian diet that it is all  to easy to eat too many starchy veggies!

I have lost 42 lbs to date but with 26 more to go, I want to be make sure that all my brain matter, bones and muscles remain healthy. 

kmccraw423

Go on PETA's web site (peta.org).  Since they advocate animal rights they have plenty of vegan recipes.  If you want a strong, healthy vegetarian diet you will have to put some time into the preparations.  Make large amounts and freeze.

I have been vegetarian for over 20 years and I also believe most Americans get too much protein.

Best of luck in your quest.

Anonymous

Chicken and eggs are good as long as they are organic to avoid the growth hormones. Also, get protein from deer and goat meat- raised without hormones and antibiotics. Almost forgot organic cheese too

car

You've got a lot of good advice here. My onc suggested that I try Walter Willett's diet (he's a PI on the Nurses & Professionals longitudinal studies). It is easily modifiable to vegetarian--at all levels from vegan to lacto-ovan. His book is available at Amazon (what isn't?) or even cheaper at www/addall.com. It's Eat, Drink, and Be Healthy. There's also a weight-loss version. It's been very easy for me to convert my already healthy Mediterranean diet to this diet.

Anonymous

Hi,

Yellowrose, Good for you in doing everything you can -- including changing your diet -- to take care of yourself. And for losing all that weight. Congratulations!

I am not a nutrionist, just someone who, as a vegetarian for 35 years, vegan for 3, reads up on nutrition. 60-100 grams of protein seems like an awful lot. Has this much been recommended by a nutritionist recently? I believe that daily intake amounts have been revised in recent years - we don't need as much protein as what was once thought.

While I am vegan for ethical reasons, now now that I've read David Servan-Shreiber's book "AntiCancer: A New Way of Life," I am glad that I don't use any animal products. As long as you have a varied diet including lots of whole grains, vegetables, legumes, nuts, and fruit, it shouldn't be a problem getting enough protein. 

I am also ER+ , so I limit my soy intake to a couple times a week at most. Here and here are charts of how much protein one needs and some good sources of protein. 

You may have come across my recommendations for veg recipes online on previous threads. These are great sites:

www.vegweb.com

Fatfree Vegan Kitchen

On Fatfree Vegan Kitchen you can do a search for recipes on lots of other sites (search box is under "What's For Dinner?" on top left)

 You can order a free Vegetarian Starter kit here: http://www.pcrm.org/health/veginfo/vsk/index.html

 More veg recipes from PCRM (Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine) here: http://www.cancerproject.org/recipes/index.php

More help on going veg from The Humane Society of the United States: http://www.hsus.org/farm/resources/pubs/gve/ (you can also order or download a Vegetarian guide here)

 You can buy quinoa online. I mix cooked quinoa with chick peas and spinach and spices for a fast, nutritious meal. 

Jo

AccidentalTourist

Jo, do you mind giving us a recipe for your quinoa dish.  Which spices do you use and do you boil spinach before mixing it with quinoa?  It sounds delicious.

Best

Nena

ineia

I add quinoa in  any stew or soup recipe I cook. I love it!

yellowrose

Jo,  Many thanks!  I am generally very good at research but am finding that starting a "new" nutritional life at my age to be daunting!  I appreciate much of the information I find here because I know that folks here understand the crusade for good health for the long term. 

I checked out all your links and found a plethora of great information.  I was pleased to see that according to the chart I found that I am actually a little over on my proteins.  I will double check this information when I have an appt with my new nutritionist in April. 

Our local hospital has a program called "Weigh to Live" and I will be assigned a nutritionist at my first appt.  If it all checks out, I will find it MUCH easier to meet daily requirements.  Maybe I can get those carbs more under control, too!  At least the vast majority of them are complex carbs, I keep hearing that that is a good thing.

Some of the recipes look pretty simple (which is important because my DH is professionally trained but refuses to cook vegetarian more than a couple times a week ).  My cooking skills are sadly lacking and my only specialty is homemade candies (NOT on my eating plan ).  I hope that I can make some of these dishes without the smoke alarm blaring!  I do like to make soups so I will try the quinoa in a couple of my favs.  I'm going to see the onc next week in the "big city" so can visit my favorite Whole Foods market with shopping list and recipes in hand.

Anonymous

The recipe for the very simple, tasty quinoa/chick pea dish is here: http://vegweb.com/index.php?topic=24555.0   Be sure to check the first comment under the recipe where I suggest a better process for making this dish.

Enjoy!

suzmarks

This website is a great find, so happy to come to it. I've been a veggie for a good part of my life but am much more serious about the nutritional aspects given the cancer. I'm very unhappy about what's being written about soy and estrogen+ BC. I also have the Anti Cancer book by David Servan-Schreiber. He has some passages about soy and BC. On page 103 he says there is no dangerous effect from soy in breast cancer aside from certain experiments with dietary supplements in high doses. He goes on to say soy consumed regularly may reduces  some dangerous effects ... I also have just started looking at Andrew Weil's book, Eating Well for Optimum Health. It is from 2000 so could be considered dated but he says, "My guess is that the benefits of soy outweigh the risks" referring to eating soy during BC treatment. I don't think it is certain that soy is problematic for breast cancer. I'm not sure that the oncologists have a strong nutritional base and are perhaps to quick to judge it as bad because it's a phytoestrogen. On the flip side I hope I'm not just promoting what I want to hear. Well, I tuned into this site pretty late and should be sleeping. I have a chemo TX tomorrow. Thanks for all the good websites, will have to check them out soon. 

terrilee

I love this thread. I've read some of the same books some of you have, and hope to read more. I've been mostly vegetarian for 30 some years, but have been craving protein after A/C and during Taxol/ Herceptin chemo. I ate lentil soup almost every day for lunch then, and need to make more since I miss it. I don't exercise enough, but do take the stairs and walk when I can. My favorite book along these lines is Barbara Kingsolver's Animal, Vegetable, Miracle. I love the approach to food, and found it a fun read.