natural girls

amberyba

I have tried this before, but wanted to start a thread for us natural girls to build our friendships, share our thoughts and the natural things we are doing. there is a thread called bottle of tamoxifen, that I enjoyed the friendships of, but now that I am off the tamoxi-train and using alternatives, it would be nice to have a support group of women who encourage each other with alternative, complementary and holistic treatment.

Here's to friendship and support.

lisasayers

Thanks Althea...we were experimenting with juicing before I started chemo and I had found a "green lemonade" that we liked and I forgot to write it down! LOL  I like the combo you wrote posted. 

I did find that even though I love cabbage...I can't drink it!  LOL  But I was using a lot of other green veggies.

As far as the "pulp"...depending on what I use, sometimes I would throw it in a pan and stir fry it or toss it in a salad.  But again, depending on what I had juiced. 

Anonymous

Enzymes aren't alive and can't be "killed by chemo."

Where in the world do you people get this stuff?

If you're talking about probiotics, they are beneficial bacteria. They also are not killed by chemo.

Eating raw fruits or veggies during chemo is contraindicated by any oncologist. Taking probiotics does nothing to change this. If the immune system is compromised, any small amount of pathogenic bacteria can cause a life-threatening infection.

FloridaLady

LJ13,

Would you try doing some research before running off at the mouth.  Read what the chemo does to the stomach lining. Do really really think all the nausea is from low blood?

Did you every do any chemo?  You are stage O.  Exactly what do you know about any of this?

We don't need a doctor to tell us this works.  As noted by patients in treatment this does work!

Flalady

lisasayers

LJ...I'll let my oncologist know that he was wrong to tell me I could eat my raw fruits and veggies.  I'm sure he will be grateful!

Incidentally...ate them all through chemo and had NO problems! 

Anonymous

Florida"Lady", I know what chemo does to stomach cells. Some chemo agents cause stomach cells that are in the division phase to self-destruct. That is in fact one reason why many people experience nausea during chemo.

This has nothing to do with enzymes. Enzymes are reactive proteins that match with keyed catalysts to cause biochemical reactions. They are not alive. They can't be killed. They are just protein molecules. It is not necessary to do research on this as it is taught in basic chemistry class.

Whether I took chemo is also irrelevant. My staging is irrelevant. And, you are quite incorrect in your assumption. I had 4 rounds of dose dense AC, 12 weeks of Taxol/Herceptin, and 13 additional treatments of Herceptin. My staging was "clinically" 2B or 3A. Unknown because I did neoadjuvant therapy. I also had a lumpectomy + AND, and 33 radiation treatments. 

Interesting that you imply that Stage 0 ladies have nothing to contribute here though. I think you owe them an apology for that.

Lisa, I am glad you didn't have any problems during chemo. I should qualify my statement: only raw foods that can be washed/scrubbed thoroughly or peeled should be eaten by chemo patients.  It is very risky to eat leafy greens, raw broccoli, raw berries, etc.

I have nothing against raw food. Only for people with neutropenia.

I think many foods are healthier raw ... but many foods actually release more nutrients when cooked (tomatoes, for example).

Jenniferz

Although not a "natural girl", I am interested and truly take my hat off to you ladies for the discipline that it takes to go on and stay on these diets. My onc. also didn't specify any diet, has the same "eat as you want" type of attitude, but my pcp keeps a better eye on me, and is on my about my weight.  She likes it to stay stable, but celebrates with me when I loose!,,then gives me the "stink eye" when I gain it all back! ( and SHE'S overweight!)

I am trying to stay away from sweets, and do so fairly well, but must admit, when family comes home, I do binge. I probably won't post here, but will lurk as I try and find combinations that will fit for me.  One that I have found is Althea's green juice....how many times a day do you drink this?.  This sounds like something that would be good after I do my exercises.....see?  I am trying!  Also, do you add water to this?  Or drink it just this way?

Also ladies, where do you find a juicer? Or, can I put these in a blender.  Never juiced a carrot or celery before.

Hat's off to you ladies!  I do admire you. And, and here's to a "fight-free" thread.  Would be a relief!

Jennifer

StaceyR

(She just can't stay away; I'm feeling the love)

I posted this on another thread a while back but here it is for anyone who's interested.  The "green lemonade" recipe I use in my juicer is this:

• 2 apples
• 1/2 or 1 lemon (peeled or not - I peel because my juicer doesn't like it either)
• 4-5 stalks of celery
• 4 or 5 leaves of kale or lettuce
• 1 inch of fresh ginger

Jen, I bought my juicer at a department store; it's an Oster brand, paid around $100 for it, and it does a pretty good job.  You wouldn't get the same "juice" result from a blender because it wouldn't separate out the pulp, hence there would be a lot more volume.  Not that that is bad, but one of the benefits of juicing is getting most of the nutrients without having to consume so much volume (I think!).  Sometimes I add a bit of water, but not much.  I try and make it every morning, but sometimes I'm not organized and run out of fresh produce.

I think all those warnings about raw vegetables during chemo are a little overblown.  It makes sense to be prudent, but we can't be afraid of everything.  We were also warned about not attending big gatherings and being careful in public places.  I still took the bus to work, went to the gym, and lived my life as normally as possible.  Everybody is different, and we must each be vigilant in monitoring how our bodies are handling threats.

Anonymous

From ASCO, Tips for Preventing Infections:

Do not eat raw foods, including meats, shellfish, and eggs, and avoid or carefully wash raw fruits and vegetables.

http://www.cancer.net/patient/Diagnosis+and+Treatment/Treating+Cancer/Managing+Side+Effects/Infection 

StaceyR

I was amazed to see how high my WBC and neutrophils went up when I went to the gym before doing pre-chemo bloodwork.  The ladies in the blood lab suggested just climbing the stairs a few times, but I was enrolled in a fitness study at the hospital gym and just went down for my workout before going to the lab.  Did anyone else manage to exercise during chemo?  I certainly did not feel like it some days, but I was pretty proud of what I was able to do for those months.

CaseyDoodle

Hello All.  Thanks for posting here.  I have gotten two really good recipes and I'm looking forward to trying them.  I have had a juicer for years but haven't used it much, but I think I'll have to get it out and give it another try.

I ate horribly during chemo.  I was so very sick that all I could keep down was starches.  Of course, I gained weight.

I just bought a large dehydrator and can't wait to try it out.  I can't imagine at this point that I'll go "completely raw" but I have seen and read enough to appreciate the benefits.

I am currently taking Arimidex and having a really tough time, but I am really worried about stopping it.  I have about 70 pounds to lose and am concerned about the estrogen produced by the fat.  Does anyone else have this concern?  I am walking 3 miles and day and really eating healthy and the weight is coming off, but not fast enough for me. 

Thanks again for posting. 

Anonymous

Many studies have established that a reasonable amount of exercise is an immune system booster (there is some data that too much exercise can run it down somewhat). There are also studies, some quoted in the news area of bc.org, that show that exercise on the day of and few days after chemo can halt nausea right in its tracks.

I resolved to exercise on the day of my infusion and the 3 days after no matter how I felt. I did find that it pushed mild nausea away. I also believed that getting my heart rate up was a good way to get the chemo circulating and recirculating to every cell in my body when the chemo was at its strongest in my system. Now, I can't prove that that is why I achieved a complete pathological remission with my neoadjuvant therapy, but I do believe it helped the cause.

I got Neulasta when I was on AC, but didn't need any WBC assistance on Taxol. Taxol did make me a bit anemic, but not enough to require intervention.

lisasayers

StaceyR ....I continued to teach Zumba fitness classes all during chemo and it really helped to keep the side effects at bay.  In fact I would teach every night right after having my chemo treatments.  My hardest days were Mondays...but I also taught on those days as well. 

FloridaLady

LJ13 maybe you should have done more research.  There is zero proof that Stage O ladies need chemo. 

FloridaLady

Cancer Treatment: How Eating Fruit And Vegetables Can Improve Cancer Patients' Response To Chemotherapy

ScienceDaily (Oct. 24, 2008) - The leading cause of death in all cancer patients continues to be the resistance of tumor cells to chemotherapy, a form of treatment in which chemicals are used to kill cells.

***Just of LJ13 ****Now a study by UC Riverside biochemists that focuses on cancer cells reports that ingesting apigenin - a naturally occurring dietary agent found in vegetables and fruit - improves cancer cells' response to chemotherapy.

Xuan Liu, a professor of biochemistry, and Xin Cai, a postdoctoral researcher working in her lab, found that apigenin localizes tumor suppressor p53, a protein, in the cell nucleus - a necessary step for killing the cell that results in some tumor cells responding to chemotherapy.

The study, published in the online early edition of the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, provides a novel approach to conquer tumor resistance to chemotherapy, and suggests an avenue for developing safe chemotherapy via naturally occurring agents.

Normally, cells have low levels of p53 diffused in their cytoplasm and nucleus. When DNA in the nucleus is damaged, p53 moves to the nucleus where it activates genes that stop cell growth and cause cell death. In this way, p53 ensures that cells with damaged DNA are killed.

In many cancers, p53 is rendered inactive by a process called cytoplasmic sequestration. Apigenin is able to activate p53 and transport it into the nucleus, resulting in a stop to cell growth and cell death.

"In therapy you want to kill cancer cells," explained Cai, the first author of the research paper. "But to stop cell growth and to kill the cell, p53 first needs to be moved to the cell's nucleus to function. Apigenin is very effective in localizing p53 this way."

Apigenin is mainly found in fruit (including apples, cherries, grapes), vegetables (including parsley, artichoke, basil, celery), nuts and plant-derived beverages (including tea and wine). It has been shown by researchers to have growth inhibitory properties in several cancer lines, including breast, colon, skin, thyroid and leukemia cells. It has also been shown to inhibit pancreatic cancer cell proliferation.

"Our study advocates the inclusion of vegetables and fruit in our daily diet to help prevent cancer," said Liu, the research paper's coauthor.

The National Institutes of Health supported the five-year study.

Next in their research Liu and Cai plan to design therapies for cancer by finding compounds that are like, but perform better than, apigenin.

FloridaLady

Fruits and Veggies Cut Cancer Risks

Studies Offer New Insights Into How Plant-Rich Diets Can Offer Protection (continued)

Fruit, Vegetables Lower Head and Neck Cancer Risk continued...

To help settle the issue, National Cancer Institute researchers asked 490,802 AARP members about their typical dietary habits and then followed them for five years. During that time, 787 of them developed head and neck cancer.

Results showed that participants who ate about 12 servings of fruit and vegetables per day were 29% less likely to develop the cancer than those who ate three servings per day. Increasing consumption by just two servings of fruit or vegetables per day was associated with a 6% reduction in head and neck cancer risk, researcher Neal Freedman, PhD, a cancer prevention fellow, tells WebMD.

One serving equals approximately one medium-sized fresh fruit, 1/2 cup of cut fruit, 6 ounces of fruit juice, 1 cup of leafy vegetables, or 1/2 cup of other vegetables.

Broccoli Curbs Breast Cancer Spread

While studies have shown that broccoli and soy offer protection against breast and ovarian cancer, how this occurs has not been well understood, says Erin Hsu, MS, a molecular toxicologist at the University of California, Los Angeles.

Her team's laboratory experiments offer one potential clue, showing that diindolylmethane (DIM), a compound resulting from digestion of cruciferous vegetables, and genistein, a major isoflavone in soy, reduce production of two proteins whose attraction to each other is necessary for the spread of both cancers.

In the experiments, the researchers exposed breast and ovarian cancer cells to purified DIM or genistein. Levels of two proteins known as CXCR4 and CXCL12 that promote breast and ovarian cancer spread dropped.

"In other words, DIM and genistein make the cancers more treatable," Hsu tells WebMD.

Both DIM and genistein are being developed for use in the prevention and treatment for breast cancer, although more extensive toxicological studies are necessary, she says.

StaceyR

Lisa, I've seen you mention these Zumba classes before and I must admit I'm clueless about this activity!  (uh, google, Stacey..?)  It sounds very active, and you look very fit!

My oncologist was a physiotherapist before she decided to study oncology, so she's the one who leads a lot of the research in this area.  I think she started with men doing treatment for prostate cancer, and has moved over to women with bc.  I feel pretty fortunate that I was in the right city and had the flexibility to commit to the 3-times-weekly schedule.  I did about 10 different weight exercises and 20 minutes of cardio each visit.  I'm sad to say I haven't quite kept up this level of exercise, but I do more yoga at home now, so I feel good about that.

anondenet

Zumba sounds terrific! I wish there were a class nearer to me. Nearest is 35 minutes away.

vivre

 Hey Natural girls. I think it is great that we have a topic that we can talk about different subjects in alternative and complimentary care. It sometimes gets confusing with all these threads with the same topic. There must be 10 of them going about Vit. D. I think we need to a name for our group so I am calling anyone who is on this wave length FriendsThinkingOutsideTheBox or FTOTB for short. Welcome to the club!

Kay, don't beat yourself up about losing weight slowly. That is the only way to keep it off. I only lost about a pound a week. It is about changing eating habits, not counting calories and pounds. Once you get through a few months, you will feel so much better, that you will be motivated to continue. Remember those pounds took years to add up. Rome was not built in a day. Just keep at it. You can do it too! You too Jennifer. I kept changing one thing at a time. First cutting sugar and carbs, then dairy, then adding exercise, etc. Actually I have always liked to exercise. My docs said that is probably what kept me at stage 1. However, I never pumped iron before. Now I do a lot of free weights. Muscle burns more calories than fat. When I started working out an hour every day, the weight really started to fall off. Now I miss it if I skip a day. I either take a 3-4 mile walk, or do and hour of free wts, rebounding, and pilates in front of the TV. I hate gyms.

I must say I did not follow doctors orders from the start. They told me to take it easy and let others take care of me. I live in a house with all males. Yeah right docs! But walking became so cathardic that that is what I did. When I sailed through rads without any fatigue, they admitted that it was a good thing, and even told me they were going to use me as a example.

Stacey, thanks for the recipe. It sounds like one I might like. I will get out the juicer tomorrow and try it.

anondenet

> 

Yes, V, we need to reorganize the place! But this Natural Girls thread is just a general subject group. I never know when a topic deserves a new thread.

Anyway, those of you near Florida, this doctor is giving a talk on cancer at the Orlando AntiAging conference in April. Have you guys heard anything about him or his protocols?

http://www.alternativecancersolution.com/

>

althea

Yes, I agree that we already need to start over.  We didn't even get past page one without this thread turning into yet another debate.  LJ13, would you bring pork to a Jewish potluck?  Would you bring a jackhammer to a concert?  Are you unaware of how inappropriate your comments are on this particular thread?  There are plenty of other threads to voice your negativity.  This was started as a thread for building a support net of friendships.  You clearly have a different set of values, and no one is suggesting you relinquish them, but I do think the women who like to explore 'unproven' options for our health are entitled to at least one thread where we can seek sanctuary from your disagreeable nature. 

On that note, how about we call the next thread "Alive to Thrive".  

Makratz

Hi Ladies,

Just a thought.  If someone posts anything that is  "negative or sacarstic" why not just ignore the post?  Don't even read them if you know the post is negative and defintiely don't respond to the post.

I wonder if there is a way to become a moderator of a thread to ensure the rules are followed?  Perhaps you should ask the moderators.

Love the thread.  Best of luck to you all.

amberyba

Hi everyone, I was hoping LJ13 would stay off this thread, and like Makraz wrote let us just ignore her, I did think there was a way you could report comments. as I posted that I had once tried to start a thread that  would allow us natural alternative girls to encourage each other LJ13 is the one who put me down and make tried to make me feel worthless.

Stacey, I wrote the juicing recipe down....i have seen kale in the grocery, but have never bought any.

Althea, You always have great insight and I do enjoy reading everything you post.

Vivre, I am taking Vitamin D-3, I did research the idea, asked my gyn to check my levels and mine was 24, normal is 30-100....and I am going to my primary care doctor in about 9 days...he wants to recheck my levels. He told me there is not much out there in the way of recommended doses, but he did recommended 2,000 units for my low level. I use the NOW brand.

I am going to try the flaxoil and cottage cheese starting today. I read that organic oil in the refrigerator section is the best to use....and that organic cottage cheese is suggested too. I just hope they aren't too expensive.

Lisa, i have never heard of Zumba....and you look so fit....amazing.

Kay, i need to loose too...and like vivre said don't beat yourself up....I am going to take that advise too. I was scared after I was diagnosed to diet, I had planned to start a diet after  Christmas 2007, on christmas morning of that year I felt the lump...I made the neccessary appointments and hoped the lump was benign.....(my sister is a 9 year survivor).... I lost 12 pounds before I had my surgery....then I kind of lost heart....was afraid that loosing weight meant the cancer could be spreading.......Now about a year later, I am afraid to get on the scale now...but my family doctor will weigh me in a little over a week.....terror of terrors....ha ha!

Well it is 3:30am here, been up since 2am, and fighting insomnia

Thanks for all the support!

Amber

amberyba

ps: ladies I don't know if it will help, but if you notice, beside the time each post is posted (like 5 hrs ago) there is an area that says "report this post" , I think we can click this when we get a sarcastic of negative input, for those that are trying to discourage us. I tried it, and when you click it, you will find a statement that asks if you are sure you want to report the comment. So click away. He he!

May the Lord bless and keep you all...

Flalady, didn't you start the bible verse encourager, I have posted there and read some awesome verses others have submitted!

Amber

JeninMichigan

Hello girls.   I am new to the board.  I have complimented my med treatment with holistic and alternative methods.  I will not blindly follow my oncologist through this journey.   I am lucky that she has been open to everything I have thrown at her from my naturalist and my own research.  She is one of the rare ones that knows the value of diet and nutrition and preaches fruits, veggies and vitamins.  

I take a product called transfer factor and urge all of you to look at it very closely.  pm if you like. i can't say enough about it.  I have been NED after 3 treatments (june 08) and still remain NED as of two weeks ago!!   I have not had as much as a cold during the whole treatment.  I breeze through rads and am pretty much side effect free with the current herceptin/kyterb/Tamoxifen/Arediea treatment.  

Take a look a this book.   "A Maverick of Medicine Speaks to Women" .. by Dr. Duane Townsend, MD.   If you ask your oncologist or gyn doctor, they will know this man... he likely wrote their text books.   However, he has traveled the alternative route and knows the success.  He open criticizes the corruption in the medical community between pharmaceuticals and insurance companies.   He gives amazing information regarding female health and what we can do naturally (and so easily) to make a huge difference..   I urge all of you to look at this book.  you can get is on Amazon for like $14.95.    I have read it multiple times. 

I love your thread. 

Jennifer 

lisasayers

Thought you may all be interested in reading this blog by Dr. David Brownstein, MD (in Michigan)

Is Conventional Medicine Evidence-based?

An article in the Journal of the American Medical Association (2.25.09. Vol 301. No.8) looked at the scientific evidence underlying the American College of Cardiology (ACC) and the American Heart Association's (AHA) clinical practice guidelines.  These guidelines give doctors recommendations for treating various cardiovascular diseases such as hypertension, heart failure, angina, etc.    For example, the guidelines have stated that a normal blood pressure should be 120/80mmHg.  If it is higher, doctors have to consider medication.  In effect, these guidelines are designed to influence the practice of medicine and serve as templates for how cardiovascular patients should be treated.   These guidelines are based on sound scientific evidence, right?  They are free of bias, right?  These guidelines are the true example of evidence-based medicine, right?  Unfortunately, the correct answer to all three of these questions is "wrong". 

This study found that 48% of the time, the guidelines are based on the lowest levels of evidence.  The accompanying editorial in JAMA (p. 868) stated, "The most widely recognized bias is financial.  Guidelines often have become marketing tools for device and pharmaceutical manufacturers.  Financial ties between guideline panel members and industry are common.  In a study looking at 44 guidelines, 87% of the guideline authors had some form of industry tie."

I am always confronted with the statement that conventional medicine is evidence-based, while holistic medicine is not.  This study would show that statement to be hogwash.  The authors of this study point out that, "The AHA and the ACC's own guidelines are based on lower levels of evidence or expert opinion {which} highlights deficiencies in the sources of definitive data available for the generation of cardiovascular guidelines.  ...Clinicians need to exercise caution when considering recommendations not supported by solid evidence." 

I couldn't agree more with their conclusion.  That is why I am writing my books, newsletter and blog.  Before jumping to the newest and most heavily advertised drug therapy, educate yourself about the benefits and the risks.  Then you can truly use the best evidence to make an informed decision. 

lisasayers

Welcome Jennifer.....I'm heading over to Amazon to check out the book now!  Thanks

anondenet

< 

Thanks, Lisa, for Dr. Brownstein's blog.

Scroll down on this page to see his video clips. http://www.vitamincfoundation.org/videos

 He knows a lot about breast disease and breast cancer. 

vivre

Anom, thanks for the link to the Fla Doc. He had some very interesting info. Especially concerning the value of chemo. He is proof that more docs are thinking outside the box and integrating their treatments. Let's hope it spreads even more. That new link sounds interesting too. I will check it out!

JenInMich-Welcome to our little club. FTOTB! That sounds like a great book you found. I will definitely look for it. What is transfer factor? That is a new one on me. Wow, we can learn a lot from you! I wish I had your onc! I really like my onc a lot. She was very caring, but strictly msm all the way. After tiring of the debate with her staff about arimidex, I said adios. I have a team of alternative docs now who are monitoring me.

Amber, my D3 level was low twenties too after I finished treatments. I do not know what it was before, my docs never tested it. When I went to a chiro to help me with nutrition, she tested my level. When it came back low, she put me on 6000 IU. After 6 months, I had raised it to 45, which is just borderline. So she said to continue for another 6 months. We tested again and it was 117! So I guess the supplements work! Now I am down to 2-4000 IU. I use drops by Carlson. One drop is 2000 iu so it is easy to take.

Lisa, thanks for the article by Dr Brownstein. It is always great to keep finding the evidence that we are on the right track, even though we have FlaLady and now JenInMich as our inspirations! Would you please give us more details on Zumba? I know you have talked about it before, but I never heard of it around here, and I was a PE teacher. I guess I went to school in  the dark ages. LOL

I am still having a hard time with the flax/cottage cheese thing. I believe that dairy was a huge contributor to my bc, so I avoid it like the plague and I still keep finding such controversial opinions on the flax. What do you gals think? I do use the grape seed oil on my skin. It feels great and is a great antioxidant, and has the same benefits as flax.

JeninMichigan

Hi Vivre. 

Check out this link

 http://www.transferfactor.com/Home/Faq

I won't go into my whole menu here but if you are interested let me know and I can give you all the nitty gritty details.    I have gone to alot of conferences and attend weekly conference calls for this research company.  I spend a small fortune in products but I am convinced of their benefit.   I even have my two daughters on transfer factor.  One has asthma and the other reactive airway disorder.  Since September, they have both been off their meds (ie Singular, Advair, Abuterol treaments, Rhinocort).  They have not had a single episode that they have needed a treatment.  

I have heard so many b/c patients say that their oncologist has told them to take nothing but a vitamin during chemo.  And they struggle so much.  They battle infections and stomach issues.   If you look at this book, he will tell you the opposite.   

I am in a chemical menopause and then the Tamoxifen can make things interesting.  I take Isoflavones and I do not have a single hot flash, mood changes, etc.    Dr. Townsend talks extensively about isoflavones and soy in his book.   It is well worth reading.

If you go to www.4life.com check out the product "Riovida" is amazing. 

Jennifer

FloridaLady

I did a lot of research on Transfer Factor last year.  I did take this while not on chemo.  You can find drug trials posted for this.  They do show benefit again they were not followed through on....

Flalady