hope for marriage reinstatement in California

NoH8

hope for marriage reinstatement in California

NoH8

I'm thrilled that the NAACP has joined our cause. Those discriminated against have to stick together when our civil rights are concerned.

I really hope Prop H8 is overturned, for all the couples wanting to get married and for those in other states looking toward what the future has for all of us.

http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/ /

NAACP Calls For Prop 8 to Be Overturned
Jim Burroway
February 25th, 2009
The National Association for the Advancement of Colored People has joined the California chapter in calling for Proposition 8 to be overturned:

"The NAACP's mission is to help create a society where all Americans have equal protection and opportunity under the law," said President Jealous. "Our Mission Statement calls for the ‘equality of rights of all persons.' Prop. 8 strips same-sex couples of a fundamental freedom, as defined by the California State Supreme Court. In so doing, it poses a serious threat to all Americans. Prop. 8 is a discriminatory, unprecedented change to the California Constitution that, if allowed to stand, would undermine the very purpose of a constitution and courts - assuring equal protection and opportunity for all and safeguarding minorities from the tyranny of the majority."

..."The NAACP has long opposed any proposal that would alter the federal or state constitutions for the purpose of excluding any groups or individuals from guarantees of equal protection," said Chairman Bond. "We urge the legislature to declare that Proposition 8 did not follow the proper protective process and should be overturned as an invalid alteration that vitiated crucial constitutional safeguards and fundamental American values, threatening civil rights and all vulnerable minorities."

The NAACP statement urges passage of House Resolution 5 and Senate Resolution 7, which would put the legislature on record as viewing Prop. 8 as an improper alteration of the California Constitution. The question is currently before the California Supreme Court, which is expected to hear arguments on March 5.

sccruiser

I agree with you! I live in CA, and I was so disheartened that I walk among people in this state who voted to deprive one group of citizens from marrying and receiving the same entitlements and benefits that heterosexual couples have.

The arguments that gays already receive the same benefits under the "partner" legislation--like insurance--and civil unions is utterly untrue. I have met many gays in our community who can tell us tales of being together for years, and one partner dies, and the relatives of that person will keep the surviving partner from receiving a fair share of the assets--even though that is what the deceased person clearly told family what he/she wanted. There are many stories of gays not being able to go to the bedside of a partner in the hospital because they are not considered "family."  And the list goes on and on.

I am disgusted that this country is now using the amendment process to put laws in place that are clearly unconstitutional. The amendment process was set up in this country (and in states) to clarify what is already in the constitution. Obviously, our constitution either in the US or CA and individual states exists so that all citizens are treated equitably. If that is not in the constitution, then there should be an amendment to change the constitution so all citizens receive the same benefits and entitlements.

Until this country wakes up and realizes that all citizens should have equal and equitable rights under the law; we continue to discriminate against one group of people. Who will be next? A religious group, immigrants from certain countries, minority groups?

I am very glad the NAACP is stepping in. I make my view known to all I come in contact with. I will be working with gay groups to help protest this unconstitutional amendment and I am convinced our State Supreme Court will also find Prop 8 unconstitutional; and with that, hopefully this matter will be settled.

We have a long way to go in this country when it comes to equitable treatment and opportunities for all of our citizens!

grace 

crazy4carrots

Can someone PLEASE tell me why Americans are so hung up about sex?  Surely it isn't still a hangover from when the Puritans settled here?  As a Canadian former Prime Minister said over 40 years ago "The state has no place in the bedrooms of the nation".

Another thing that really has me confused is that the people who want to put restrictions on who sleeps with/lives with/loves/marries who are the very same ones who scream so loudly about their freedom to choose and how they're so terrified that the new administration is going to take away those freedoms.

Hey folks, you just can't have it both ways!

Here's to demolishing Prop 8 and never letting anything like it raise its ugly head again -- anywhere in the U.S..

NoH8

Linda, I never realized how hung up americans were about sex until Monicagate, which wouldn't have been much of an issue in most other countries in the world. There are still people bitching and moaning about Bill because of that. I do  not believe this is because of the Puritans settling here, because the folks who are most conservative/hung up on sex aren't in the Northeast part of the country. They are primarily in the south and midwest. New England has the most civil rights for LGBTs. Your former PM has the right idea. During Monicagate europe couldn't understand what the big deal was. I always say keep your laws off my body and out of my bedroom.

Do you know sodomy laws were still on the books in some states just 6 years ago and some states allowed for sodomy amongst heterosexuals but not gays. This is a frightening website http://www.sodomylaws.org/ . I'd love to know how this was enforced... but not really.

I am thrilled about the NAACP stepping in to join our cause. the LGBT community was encouraged to join Sharpton and other black leaders in protests at the NYPost after that racist cartoon was printed and the nonapology/apology. I was so glad to see this, even though I was already on board. I wish I would have been in NYC for the protest.

Little-G

Hey..what's the deal on this post?  Why has it been removed?  I haven't been on in a long time, but see the same stuff is going on.  What was said that was so awful??

g

AnnNYC

Me three -- there was absolutely nothing offensive in the posts that have been deleted.

In a forum that specifically calls itself "a safe place for lesbians with breast cancer to connect," posts in support of gay marriage ought to be expected -- and ought, indeed, to have been safe.

Little-G

Susan,

I can't believe that either.  Isn't this a lesbian thread?  If you were in opposition to that, why even come here to read it??  It is pretty sad.  To the people that have issues with this, guess what...this in not only YOUR planet!!!  We share it!!  Learn to live in it..or maybe, get off of it.  

Just my thoughts.

g

Little-G

This mentality is very ridiculous.  It's all anger.  Why people can't see that anger just feeds anger and makes the world worse for everyone on it, I don't know.  The ironic thing is that the majority of the people that are in opposition to this call themselves "Christians."  I believe that your god will judge, and not you.  Is that a correct statement?  It is not up to you to judge what people do.  The world is not solely based on your belief.  The sooner you realize that, you might actually start to enjoy the people around you based on WHO they are, not what they do.  What a concept!!!!

g

Little-G

Let me add to my post above....its anger and FEAR!!!!!  Fear...why not be afraid of something that has some reason to be afraid of.  Maybe if a lion jumped at your throat, now that's fear.  Can we put things into perspective!!

crazy4carrots

Sure wish the mods would get in touch with the poster when they decide to remove the post, and provide the reason why.  Seems only fair and respectful, on a public forum.

As I recall, my post did not fall outside the rules/regulations of this site.

Anonymous

State lawmakers pass 2 anti-Prop. 8 resolutions

Wyatt Buchanan

Tuesday, March 3, 2009

California lawmakers approved two resolutions Monday opposing the legality of Proposition 8, which was passed by 52 percent of state voters in November and bans same-sex marriages.

The action comes as the state Supreme Court is to hear arguments Thursday on whether the measure should have gone through the Legislature before going to voters.

Both the Assembly and the Senate considered identical resolutions, which stated that the Legislature "opposes Proposition 8 because it is an improper revision, not an amendment, of the California Constitution."

"In my mind, this is not a marriage issue, it's a constitutional issue," said Assemblyman Tom Ammiano of San Francisco, who introduced the resolution in the lower house.

Lawmakers opposed to the measure argued that the Legislature was overstepping its bounds by taking a position on an issue being heard in court and said marriage should be limited to a man and woman.

"I believe if you travel down this path you will open Pandora's Box," said Assemblyman Chuck DeVore, R-Irvine, who said same-sex marriage would create a strong legal argument for polygamy.

Opponents in the Senate made similar arguments.

"I don't see this as a fundamental rights issue but redefining the definition of marriage," said Sen. Bob Huff, R-Diamond Bar (Los Angeles County).

The court will hear arguments from 9 a.m. to noon Thursday and will rule within 90 days.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/03/03/BAA91684KL.DTL&type=printable

Anonymous

Read the Bible. 

AnnNYC

Matthew 7:3 "And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?"

John 8:7 But when they continued asking him, he straightened up and said to them, "Let the one among you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her."

Deut 22:11 You shall not wear a garment of divers sorts, of wool and linen together.

1 John 4:16 God is love, and he who abides in love abides in God, and God in him.

Mark 12:17 And Jesus said unto them, "Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and unto God the things that are God's."

My religious education taught me that the last verse means we in the U.S. should uphold the Constitution, which says: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof."

In other words, the religious objections of some should not overrule the rights of others.

Anonymous

"For we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love Him...Romans 8:28

Anonymous

The Framers of the American Constitution knew that throughout human history religious self-righteousness has caused intolerance, discrimination and injustice. They understood that religious self-righteousness is dangerous, divisive and destructive, and that it has led to untold ignorance and misery. It was for that reason that they embedded in our Constitution a fundamental commitment to the separation of church and state.

The Framers were not anti-religion. They understood that religion could help to nurture the public morality necessary to a self-governing society. But religion was to be fundamentally private. It was for the individual. It was not to intrude unduly into the political sphere.

jillyG

As a straight Canadian, I just think the US is so far behind the times on this issue, regardless of whether you are straight or gay, this is an issue about letting people commit to each other and celebrate their love, what is so wrong with that?  US is known for waving the freedom banner every 5 seconds, and yet does not let their citizens have equal rights, it's so contradictory. 

On July 20, 2005, Canada became the fourth country in the world to legalize same-sex marriage nationwide with the enforcement of the Civil Marriage Act. Court decisions, starting in 2003, each already legalized same-sex marriage in eight out of ten provinces and one of three territories, whose residents comprised about 90% of Canada's population. Before passage of the Act, more than 3,000 same-sex couples had already married in these areas.^[1] Most legal benefits commonly associated with marriage had been extended to cohabiting same-sex couples since 1999.

Anonymous

Homosexuality is condemned in the Bible. Below are some Bible verses that condemn homosexuality:

• Leviticus 18:22 - You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination.
• Leviticus 20:13 - If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltiness is upon them.
• Romans 1:26-27 - For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error.
• I Corinthians 6:9(NIV) - Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
• I Timothy 1:8-11 (NASB) - "But we know that the Law is good, if one uses it lawfully, realizing the fact that law is not made for a righteous person, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers and immoral men and homosexuals and kidnappers and liars and perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound teaching, according to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, with which I have been entrusted."
• Jude 1:6-7 (NASB) - And angels who did not keep their own domain, but abandoned their proper abode, He has kept in eternal bonds under darkness for the judgment of the great day, just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire.

Homosexuality and the Bible and the City of Sodom

The Bible mentions Sodom in variety of biblical books. The prevalent view among evangelical Christians is that Sodom was destroyed as a result of prevalent homosexuality, however, this is open to debate, based upon traditional Jewish interpretation of the event, and the fact that many undesirable practices, many vastly more reprehensible, were likely engaged in in the general region.

Anonymous

THe purpose of marriage in the Bible is pro-creation.

Homosexuality is a sin against God .  It has nothing to do with freedom of religion

AnnNYC

The traditional Jewish interpretation is that Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed because they were inhospitable, even cruel, to travelers -- and to test them, God sent angels, who were refused food and shelter, and were treated cruelly.

-------------- 

Please note that this forum was designated by the moderators of this Board as a forum for support of lesbians.  If you disagree with this in principle, you shouldn't be posting here.

crazy4carrots

Like Jilly, I'm a straight Canadian.  Loving, committing to, and caring for another human being, IMO, is important to society as a whole.  I am so happy my gay Canadian friends are able to make that commitment -- either before their minister, or before a judge.

Anonymous

for my canadian sisters, be assured, the bible and california constitutional law are not one in the same. 

...............................

California legal chief calls for end to gay marriage ban

18 hours ago

SAN FRANCISCO (AFP) - California's top lawyer has called for the result of a referendum effectively banning same-sex marriage to be quashed, two days ahead of the latest court-room showdown over the issue.

Attorney General Jerry Brown said the ballot measure known as Proposition 8, which redefined marriage in California as a union between a man and a woman, should be invalidated because it "discriminates against same-sex couples."

On Thursday, supporters of same-sex marriage are to go before California's Supreme Court in San Francisco to argue for the ballot measure to be invalidated in the latest twist to the long-running legal battle.

Brown said Tuesday the Supreme Court should strike down the measure on the grounds that same-sex couples had an "inalienable" right to marry that should not be allowed to be taken away by a simple majority vote.

He compared the current dispute to a case in 1964, where the California and US Supreme Courts quashed a voter measure that would have allowed racial discrimination in renting or selling of property.

"As California's Attorney General, I believe the Court should strike down Proposition 8 for remarkably similar reasons -- because it unconstitutionally discriminates against same-sex couples and deprives them of the fundamental right to marry," Brown said.

Proposition 8, backed by social conservatives and religious groups, was passed by a margin of 52.5 to 47.5 percent in the November 4 election.

However the outcome triggered outrage amongst gay rights activists in California, where same-sex marriage was legalized earlier in 2008 after the state Supreme Court overturned a previous ban.

NoH8

Remember our motto about not feeding the trolls!

pomegranate

Many of my gay friends were very upset when Prop 8 passed. The gay community where I live felt that there were so many other issues at stake in the campaign--like getting Obama elected, and working the precinct to get a Supervisor who made a commitment to support legislation that was positive for gay rights. The gay community gave the majority of their time to this issue, believing that Prop 8 would not pass, particularly because the previous year gay marriage was approved.

Those that did marry during the time period that gay marriage was put in place in CA, will most likely remain married with all the rights and privileges that straight people have. The question becomes how can one group of people be denied the rights that all others in the state of CA are legally allowed to enjoy. The constitution and the bible should be kept separate--our forefathers wanted the church and state kept separate. I believe we should abide by that. For every notation in the Bible that is against homosexuality there are many notations that allow this. It all depends on how you interpret the Bible. If one believes that God is a just and kind God, it would be hard to deny one group of people the rights that others have.

I am enjoying participating in this topic as I have many friends who are gay; and I will support them any way I can. As someone said above, the Lesbian Board is set up to support one another and for community members to also support them. Please be respectful and remove the negative posts.

Pomegranate 

NoH8

Pomegranate,  glad you stopped by the forum. We love our straight allies!

The best answer for people who try to bring the judeo/christian bible into the gay marriage discussion is Prop-8 the musical http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/c0cf508ff8/prop-8-the-musical-starring-jack-black-john-c-reilly-and-many-more-from-fod-team-jack-black-craig-robinson-john-c-reilly-and-rashida-jones I can never watch this enough!

Anonymous

The California Supreme Court has begun hearing oral arguments on whether Proposition 8, approved by voters last November to write a same-sex marriage ban into the state constitution, will stand.
The arguments, scheduled to last from 9 a.m. until noon, will address three questions:
Is Proposition 8 invalid because it was a revision of, rather than an amendment to, the state constitution? An amendment - a narrowly tailored change or addition - can be placed on the ballot with petition signatures and approved by a simple majority of voters, as this measure was; a revision - a more substantial, fundamental alteration of the entire constitution - can be put on the ballot only by two-thirds votes of both houses of the Legislature.
Does Proposition 8 violate the state constitution's separation-of-powers doctrine, essentially constituting an end run around the courts' duty to interpret the constitution?
If Proposition 8 isn't unconstitutional and is left standing, what effect will it have on the estimated 18,000 same-sex couples who married last year?
The court will rule within 90 days of today's arguments.

crazy4carrots

One of the TV stations boiled this down to "Can the will of the majority take away the constitutional rights of the minority?"

Isn't that exactly what happened during the 1930's in Germany, after Hitler and his National Socialist Party came to power?  Wasn't long before the minority (Germany's Jewish population) lost their constitutional rights as German citizens. 

pomegranate

It's amazing how many people in CA don't get it--you have put it very nicely, lindasa!!

Why is it that people cannot just follow the Golden Rule? Weren't we all taught that when we were young? What is it that we cannot see how wrong it would be if it happened to us?

I don't understand how gays being able to marry is so threatening to "traditional" marriage. After all, traditional marriages have less than a 50% success rate! We heteros arent' doing a very good job of shoring up traditional marriage!! Gays getting married might actually help improve the marriage rate to a higher percentage. I know many gays who have been in monoganous relationships for years--some over 38 years!

Very few couples I know have been married that long. LOL

I thought we were the country opening our arms to those yearning to be FREE! 

NoH8

Very good point, Linda.

The HRC (human rights commission) did a poll a few weeks after H8 passed, after the public had seem the demonstrations and emotionally heartwrenching tears of those in the LGBT community who were crushed to lose their civil rights of marriage. They found a number of people who voted yes on h8 had changed their minds, claiming they didn't realize the importance of what voting yes meant to individuals. .

I'm still trying to maintain a cautiously optimistic stance....