Are human supposed to be carnivorous or veget?

trigeek

Ok have been reading a lot of posts regarding humans are not supposed to consume meat.

Which kind of puzzles me although I do feel really yucky/heavy/bogged down the after gulping  new york strip ( yummm ! ) if I cut the meat altogether no matter how much legumes/grains/ nuts I eat I just do not feel right. I do very well with chicken and fish tho my body purrs like a fine tuned engine if I eat 1 portion/day.

Why am I puzzled ?

I was told that the creatures that were supposed to be hunters needed depth perception and had their eyes in the front, whereas the non-carniv creatures ( birds .. ) have their eyes on the sides.

Which kind of made sense ( except the vultures and some birds eating worms and stuff)

 Thoughts ?

ICanDoThis

Actually, I think we are omnivores -

Like bears

And people eat worms and stuff - roast grub - yummy!

EWB

I say you know your body better than anyone.  If you feel best with veggies, fruit, nuts, legumes, beans and 1 portion a day- go for it.  You are getting what your body needs.

Anonymous

Although I hate meat and can't even think about the actuality of eating flesh, I recognize that I'm just weird and not overly-evolved. If I were trying to be philosophical in an upbeat way, I'd say that humankind used to need meat for survival, but is now evolving to the point where protein sources higher on the food chain can supply what we need. But the bottom line, in my opinion, is that there is a beautiful balance to everything in the world and certain laws govern that balance. One of these "laws" is that we eat other creatures in order to sustain life. It grosses me out, but I think it's true. (besides, since I DO like fish, I appreciate that justification ).

In addition to a universe-wide balance, I believe that we each have our own individual, internal balance and, if we "listen" to ourselves, we know what we need for optimum health. It sounds as though you alreadty know what you need, aylin, so I say go with it.

I'll just add that though some of us "crave" red meat, we should be cautious about ingesting that which has been raised with alot of toxins because our livers, one of the most amazing organs that sustain life, find it extremely difficult to work so hard eradicating alot of toxin.

It really IS all about Balance, don't you think?

~Marin

Blundin2005

Interesting question with as many theories I suspect.

Have you read the book about diet and blood type?  

Fortunately, we continue to evolve.  I wouldn't mind to know my body's specific needs rather than generalized ideas.  I agree with Marin that it's all about balance.  The problem is that balance seems so easily tilted but difficult to right.  And then there's the ever ending health hint of the week that will be debunked by the following week's health hint.  

sigh...

FloridaLady

I seen a lot of this the last few years.  I can't remember all the details but I do remember it is to do with the size of our stomachs, length of are digestive track and how our jaw bone and teeth are made shows we should be plant eating and not meat eating.  I wish I could remember all the details....It did make a lot of since. I with you triqeek I do feel better with a little chicken and fish in my diet.

Flalady

althea

I've been trying to figure out for the majority of this year what is the healthiest diet for people.  I deplore the conditions animals are subjected to, so I'm very much in favor of a vegan diet philosophically. Yet, I've always been a consumer of eggs, dairy and meat. 

The vegans make compelling arguments.  The length of our digestive tract is very long compared to carnivores.  Our teeth are better suited to eating plant material.  Meat can start to rot before it works all the way through our digestive tract.  Carnivores have shorter tracts, so their meals work their way through quickly with no ill effects.  Yet, experts who have travelled the world studying native peoples find populations which eat meat.  One group of eskimoes eat 80% meat, yet the people are very healthy.  The Hunza people of Pakistan, who frequently live well past 100, eat meat also.  I do not recall reading about any native people who were vegan.  If we're all supposed to be vegan, I don't understand why it seems to conflict with the sum total of human history.  

On the other hand, vegan diets seem to be the recurring theme among alternative methods for achieving health.  Gerson therapy, the Hippocrates Institute, and the hallelujah diet are all vegan.  

One item that nearly everyone denounces is milk.  I drink lots of it.  Always have.  I think it's going to get phased out of my kitchen.  There's just too much stacked against it for me to pretend otherwise anymore.  

DGHoff

I think our bodies needs all differ depending upon our own genetics, but I've read that it isn't so much about eating or not eating meat. What matters is what we eat at the same time as our meat. It's the whole food combining principle that meat and grains should not be consumed at the same time, and fruit should never be eaten with anything except maybe leafy greens. Each type of food requires different enzymes and different lengths of time for digestion, and when we ate meat and starchy grains at the same time, we end up causing our digestion to slow, and that's why we have trouble due to our very long digestive tract. The food takes too long to get through the whole system and starts to rot, causing all sorts of trouble. I don't know if it's all bunk or not, but I have noticed that when I follow the food combining rules, my bowels seem a lot happier.

DeAnn

pod1257

I've always found it interesting that in the animal kingdom, large mammels that would require alot of protein simply d/t their size, such as elephants, can survive and thrive on an all plant diet. Makes you wonder.

Julie

pinoideae

Medicine - Herb/Food Interactions

Herbs and Foods May Lead to Complications If You Take Them with Drugs

Many people have the mistaken notion that, being natural, all herbs and foods are safe. This is not so. Very often, herbs and foods may interact with medications you normally take that result in serious side reactions. It is always a good practice to tell your doctor or health practitioners what you are taking so that they can advise you of possible complications, if there is any. You should also keep an eye for unusual symptoms. Very often, this may foretell the symptoms of a drug interaction.

Experts suggest that natural does not mean it is completely safe. Everything you put in your mouth has the potential to interact with something else. The medication that is taken by mouth travels through the digestive system in much the same way as food and herbs taken orally do. So, when a drug is mixed with food or another herb, each can alter the way the body metabolizes the other. Some drugs interfere with the body's ability to absorb nutrients. Similarly, some herbs and foods can lessen or increase the impact of a drug.

	Alcohol is a drug that interacts with almost every medication, especially antidepressants and other drugs that affect the brain and nervous system.
	Some dietary components increase the risk of side effects. Theophylline, a medication administered to treat asthma, contains xanthines, which are also found in tea, coffee, chocolate, and other sources of caffeine. Consuming large amounts of these substances while taking theophylline increases the risk of drug toxicity.
	Certain vitamins and minerals impact on medications too. Large amounts of broccoli, spinach, and other green leafy vegetables high in vitamin K, which promotes the formation of blood clots, can counteract the effects of heparin, warfarin, and other drugs given to prevent clotting.
	Dietary fiber also affects drug absorption. Pectin and other soluble fibers slow down the absorption of acetaminophen, a popular painkiller. Bran and other insoluble fibers have a similar effect on digoxin, a major heart medication.

As more and more people discover new herbs, there is more and more potential for the abuse of these herbs and the patients may end up in serious problems.

I was attending an herb meeting a few weeks ago and a person came to the speaker and told her that she had very good luck with St. John's Wort to control her depression. St. John's Wort has been shown to have great potential to control minor depression. The National Institutes of Health is conducting a clinical study to determine the effect of St. John's Wort scientifically. This person, however, continued saying that she is now trying St. John's Wort for her OCD (Obsessive Compulsive Disorder). Now, this is getting into unproven uncharted territory. If you are taking prescription medication for this disorder, you can get into trouble due to drug interaction. As shown under the discussion on St. John's Wort, the herb can be quite dangerous, as it acts similar to MAO inhibitors. They have severe side reactions, and if not careful, can even lead to death.

High-risk patients, such as the elderly, patients taking three or more medications for chronic conditions, patients suffering from diabetes, hypertension, depression, high cholesterol or congestive heart failure, should be especially on the lookout for such side reactions.

The following are the examples of known interaction between popular herbs, foods, and prescription and over-the-counter drugs.

Hawthorn, touted as effective in reducing angina attacks by lowering blood pressure and cholesterol levels, should never be taken with Lanoxin (digoxin), the medication prescribed for most for heart ailments. The mix can lower your heart rate too much, causing blood to pool, bringing on possible heart failure.

Ginseng, according to research, can increase blood pressure, making it dangerous for those trying to keep their blood pressure under control. Ginseng, garlic or supplements containing ginger, when taken with the blood-thinning drug, Coumadin, can cause bleeding episodes. Coumadin is a very powerful drug that leaves little room for error, and patients taking it should never take any medication or otherwise before consulting a qualified health professional. In rare cases, ginseng may overstimulate resulting in insomnia. Consuming caffeine with ginseng increases the risk of overstimulation and gastrointestinal upset. Long tern use of ginseng may cause menstrual abnormalities and breast tenderness in some women. Ginseng is not recommended for pregnant or lactating women.

Garlic capsules combined with diabetes medication can cause a dangerous decrease in blood sugars. Some people who are sensitive to garlic may experience heartburn and flatulence. Garlic has anti-clotting properties. You should check with your doctor if you are taking anticoagulant drugs.

Goldenseal is used for coughs, stomach upsets, menstrual problems and even arthritis. However, the plant's active ingredient will raise blood pressure, complicating treatment for those taking antihypertensive medications, especially beta-blockers. For patients taking medication to control diabetes or kidney disease, this herb can cause dangerous electrolyte imbalance. High amount of consumption can lead to gastrointestinal distress and possible nervous system effects. Not recommended for pregnant or lactating women.

Feverfew, believed to be the natural remedy for migraine headaches, should never be taken with Imitrex or other migraine medications. It can result in the patient's heart rate and blood pressure to rise dangerous levels.

Guarana, an alternative remedy being used as a stimulant and diet aid, contains 3 percent to 5 percent more caffeine than a cup of coffee. So, if you are taking any medication that advises you against taking any drink with caffeine, you should avoid taking this stimulant. It may cause insomnia, trembling, anxiety, palpitations, urinary frequency, and hyperactivity. Avoid during pregnancy and lactation period. Long term use of Guarana may lead to decreased fertility, cardiovascular disease, and several forms of cancer.

Kava, a herb that has antianxiety, pain relieving, muscle relaxing and anticonvulsant effects, should not be taken together with substances that also act on the central nervous system, such as alcohol, barbiturates, anti depressants, and antipsychotic drugs.

St. John's Wort is a popular herb used for the treatment of mild depression.

The active ingredient of St. John's Wort is hypericin. Hypericin is believed to exert a similar influence on the brain as the monoamine oxidase (MAO) inhibitors such as the one in major antidepressants. Mixing MAO inhibitors with foods high in tyramine, an amino acid, produces one of the most dramatic and dangerous food-drug interactions. Symptoms, which can occur within minutes of ingesting such foods while taking an MAO inhibitor, include rapid rise in blood pressure, a severe headache, and perhaps collapse and even death. Foods high in tyramine include aged cheese, chicken liver, Chianti (and certain other red wines), yeast extracts, bologna (and other processed meats), dried or pickled fish, legumes, soy sauce, ale, and beer.

Some patients report that Saint Johns Wort caused excessive stimulation and sometimes dizziness, agitation and confusion when taken with other antidepressants or over-the-counter medications like Maximum Strength Dexatrim and Acutrim. It also caused their blood pressure to shoot up.

White Willow, an herb traditionally used for fever, headache, pain, and rheumatic complaints may lead to gastrointestinal irritation, if used for a long time. It exhibits similar reactions as aspirin (aspirin is derived from white willow). Long term use may lead to stomach ulcers.

Drug Interaction and Food

Drug interaction risk isn't limited to herbal supplements. Certain foods can interact with medications.

People taking digoxin should avoid Black licorice (which contains the ingredient glycyrhizin). Together, they can produce irregular heart rhythms and cardiac arrest; licorice and diuretics will produce dangerously low potassium levels, putting a patient at risk for numbing weakness, muscle pain and even paralysis. Licorice can also interact with blood pressure medication or any calcium channel blockers.

Aged cheese (brie, parmesan, cheddar and Roquefort), fava beans, sauerkraut, Italian green beans, some beers, red wine, pepperoni and overly ripe avocados should be avoided by people taking MAO antidepressants. The interaction can cause a potentially fatal rise in blood pressure.

And because Saint Johns Wort contains the same properties as these MAO antidepressants, it stands to reason that people ingesting the herb should avoid these same foods.

Grapefruit juice interacts with calcium channel blockers (including Calan, Procardia, Nifedipine, and Verapamil), cholesterol control medications, some psychiatric medications, estrogen, oral contraceptives and many allergy medications (Seldane, Hismanal). The juice modifies the body's way of metabolizing the medication, affecting the liver's ability to work the drug through a person's system. More Information.

Orange juice shouldn't be consumed with antacids containing aluminum. 'The juice increases the absorption of the aluminum. Orange Juice and milk should be avoided when taking antibiotics. The juice's acidity decreases the effectiveness of antibiotics, as does milk.

Milk also doesn't mix with laxatives containing bisacodyl (Correctol and Dulcolax). You might find the laxative works a little "too well" in the morning.

Large amounts of oatmeal and other high-fiber cereals should not be eaten when taking digoxin. The fiber can interfere with the absorption of the drug, making the act of swallowing the pill a waste of time.

However, don't stop eating your cereal right away, because that could cause digoxin levels in your system to soar to toxic levels. A professional should make the dietary changes after carefully examining the digoxin levels.

Leafy green vegetables, high in vitamin K, should not be taken in great quantities while taking Coumadin. These vegetables could totally negate the affects of the drug and cause blood clotting.

Caffeinated beverages and asthma drugs taken together can cause excessive excitability. Those taking Tagament (Simetidine), quinolone antibiotics (Cipro, Penetrex, Noroxin) and even oral contraceptives should be aware these drugs may cause their cup of coffee to give them more of a Java jolt than they expected.

Grilled meat can lead to problems for those on asthma medications containing theophyllines. The chemical compounds formed when meat is grilled somehow prevent this type of medication from working effectively, increasing the possibility of an unmanageable asthma attack.

Regularly consuming a diet high in fat while taking anti-inflammatory and arthritis medications can cause kidney damage and can leave the patient feeling, drowsy and sedated.

Alcoholic beverages tend to increase the depressive effects of medications such as benzodiazepines, antihistamines, antidepressants, antipsychotics, muscle relaxants, narcotics, or any drug with sedative actions.

It's a good idea to not consume any alcoholic beverages, or at least scale way back, when taking prescription medications. Antioxidant and beta-carotene intensify alcohol's effect on the liver.

Other commonly used over-the-counter medications can cause interaction problems also.

Aspirin can modify the effectiveness of arthritis medications, strong prescription steroids and diuretics. Combining aspirin with diabetic medications can drop blood sugars to dangerous levels. Aspirin can also cause toxicity when taken with glaucoma and anticonvulsant (anti-seizure) drugs and cause bleeding episodes when combined with a blood thinner, like Coumadin.

Acetaminophen can also cause interaction complications when overused. Heavy drinkers who take acetaminophen for hangover relief risk liver damage. Taking high doses of acetaminophen with Coumadin can cause bleeding episodes.

Antacids taken with antibiotics, heart and blood pressure or thyroid medications can decrease drug absorption by up to 90 percent.

Over-the-counter antihistamines - sold under the names Actifed, Theraflu, Dimetapp, Benadryl and Comtrex should be avoided if you are taking antianxiety or antidepressant medications.

Oral contraceptives are less effective when taken with barbiturates, antibiotics, anti-fungal or tuberculosis drugs.

Turnips contain two goitrogenic substances, progoitrin and gluconasturtin, which can interfere with the thyroid gland's ability to make its hormones. Although moderate consumption of goitrogens is not a hazard for healthy people, they can promote development of a goiter (an enlarged thyroid) in persons with thyroid disease.

Tomato contains small quantities of a toxic substance known as solanine that may trigger headaches in susceptible people. They are also a relatively common cause of allergies. An unidentified substance in tomatoes and tomato-based products can cause acid reflux, leading to indigestion and heartburn. Individuals who often have digestive upsets should try eliminating tomatoes for 2 to 3 weeks to see if there is any improvement.

Strawberries, Raspberries, Spinach, and Rhubarb: These contain oxalic acid, which can aggravate kidney and bladder stones in susceptible people, and reduce body's ability to absorb iron and calcium.

Raspberries contain a natural salicylate that can cause an allergic reaction in aspirin sensitive people.

The seeds from fruits such as Apple, apricot, and Quinces contain amygdalin, a compound that turns into Hydrogen Cyanide in the stomach. Eating large amount of seeds can result in cyanide poisoning.

Potatoes: Avoid potatoes with a green tint to the skin, and remove any sprouts; they will taste bitter and may contain solanine, a toxic substance that can cause diarrhea, cramps, and fatigue.

Plums, Peaches, Apricots, and Cherries: These fruits may produce allergic reaction in individuals with confirmed allergies to apricots, almonds, peaches, and cherries. People who are allergic to aspirin may also encounter problems after they have eaten plums or peaches as they contain salicylates. The pits of plums, peaches and apricots contain a compound called amygdalin.  When consumed in large amounts, amygdalin breaks down into hydrogen cyanide, a poison.

Horseradish: Very high doses of horseradish can cause vomiting or excessive sweating. Avoid if you have hypothyroidism.

Turmeric: Should be avoided by persons with symptoms from gallstones.

Drug and food interaction table:

http://www.holisticonline.com/Herbal-Med/hol_herb_med_reac.htm

pinoideae

I am a firm believer of what food choices may be healthy for some, may not be healthy for others.

FloridaLady

Please research your drugs for the additional harmfull side effect of them.  All drugs have SIDE EFFECTS. Some worst than others.  Be educated in your choices of either.  But I will take my chance on natural of drug when I can.  Drugs are very had on your liver and kidneys and possible heart issues.  I was given a drug Lycra for neuropathy. Possible side effect...tumor's that are not cancer. The new birth control pill...b9 brain tumors are showing up and girls.  Everyone one research your drugs carefully.  It will scare you death when you see possible side effects.  The natural interaction are "Possible" side effects also. 

Flalady

Kleenex

The "are we supposed to eat meat or plants or both?" quandary always leads me to believe we're omnivores, due to things like the design of our teeth and our ability to process things intestinally and our cravings and, as someone above said, studies done on primitive people who don't have a George Foreman grill but still eat lots of meat.

So while I think meat is a physiologically appropriate part of our diet, I think that we're probably not designed to take hormone-infused meat, grind it up, add cheese to it, cook it over high heat, place it on a processed white flour bread product and consume it with fried, salted potatoes and 36 oz. of chemicals with cola bean flavoring...

I really miss the days when I thought I was healthy and had the ability to look in a positive way on the choices I'd made. I'm slim, I appear healthy, I eat a varied diet that's considered healthy --- oh, yeah, but somehow, my body allowed a cancerous tumor to grow. So it's hard to say, even to my kids, "Oh, see how healthy mommy's food choices are?" Maybe they're not so healthy after all. How do I know?

And so it's back to Plan A: Everything in moderation. Along with Plan B: Don't think too much. 

nat-u-ral

The Hunzakuts have no trace of cancer. They eat many apricot seeds which contain Amygadlin

althea

The Hunza people are omniverous and to my knowledge there are no indigenous people, past or present, who consist exclusively on plant-based food entirely. 

I think a really good source of information is anything written by Michael Pollan.  His book "In Defense of Food" is most enlightening.  I just found a youtube video of him speaking to an audience about food that anyone reading this thread would probably find interesting:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-t-7lTw6mA

unique

I agree we are meant to be omnivores. I am not surprised that too much meat has negative side effects, though, as everything on this planet has its plusses and minuses. I look in our mouths and count the number of teeth for each type of food - we have more vegetarian teeth than carnivorous teeth by far. Molars and incisors are for grain/vegetables and fruit respectively, with only the canines indicating a meat diet.

apple

one of the funniest bumper stickers I ever read said:

"If we aren't supposed to eat animals, how come they are made of meat?"

 - perhaps a timely chuckle for you ladies.

NancyD

I definitely would consider humans omnivores...and to add to the discussion, we're the only epicureans. I can't think of any other species that "prepares" its food with such relish and care; that puts so much effort into what dishes go together; that takes the time to cook their food with spices and herbs to improve the flavor.

I think we might have pushed the convenience factor a little too far with modern fast food and packaged foods, but I think we have the intelligence to look at the facts and make decisions based on our own lifestyles about what things to drop from our diets that might have been doing us harm. ANYTHING in excess can be dangerous...even something as innocuous as water.

I follow the diet rule I heard several years ago...meat serving should be about the size of a deck of cards. If they give me more when I eat out, I take it home for another meal.

Husband11

I studied zoology in University, and we were told that humans are omnivores, with the characteristic traits of the digestive system of an omnivore.  Clearly, we can survive on either extreme, but this meat eating thing clearly isn't a modern anomoly.  People have been eating a mixture of meat and vegetable diet for as far back as we can tell.  Now, what is optimal for our health and survival is another question.  From my 10 year stint as a vegetarian, and with as much reading on the subject as I could, living a healthy existence as a vegetarian is almost a luxury, and quite labour intensive to make sure you get all of the nutrients you need.  Some of the B vitamins are in quite short supply in vegetarian diets, and it is difficult to make sure you get what your body requires.  As well, we are tough creatures, and it can take years for the deleterious effects of bad nutrition to catch up with you (vegetarian or otherwise).

althea

I've been reading and reading and reading trying to figure out what is optimum for my health in regard to food.  My latest acquisition from the library is a book by Carol Alt, The Raw 50.  The foreword is written by Dr Nicholas Gonzales and at last I've read some observations on food that make sense, instead of raising more questions and making me feel more confused than ever. 

So many authors on food focus on the food itself, when it is the preparation, or lack thereof, that appears to be key.  Gonzales suggests that our ancestry has much to do with the type of food that will nourish us best.  Scientists have studied numerous indigenous peoples, and they eat what is available locally.  The Inuit in the cold frozen north eat mostly meat and lots of fat.  Yet they have no cancer, heart disease or diabetes.  People in the rain forest eat more fruit and nuts.  From season to season it changes. 

Bottom line -- what is proving over and over to be unhealthy for us is processed food.  Case in point -- hydrogenated oil.  Remember when animal fat was bad and vegetable oil was better?  And then it came to light that hydrogenated oil is way worse than just plain saturated fat ever was?  Beyond that, food that is cooked is deficient in enzymes.  Enzymes are killed off around 118 degrees, and most plant-based foods start out with the enzymes we need to digest them.  So uncooked foods are easier for us to digest. 

The book is filled with testimonials of how much better people feel after adopting a raw food diet.  But then, lots of food books are filled with testimonials, so I have yet to see for myself.  I've found several recipes that I'm willing to try.  Eating uncooked food really sounds unappealing to me, but Carol Alt claims her food is delish and best of all, she looks and feels great.  The closest thing I do for raw is use my juicer every day.  And I do love that juice.  Sometimes it feels like my body is a dry sponge and I can actually feel the juice charging up my cells.  So if raw food will carry me the rest of the way to feeling good again, by golly, I'll definitely come back and report. 

kerry_lamb

What is the point of comparing our digestive tracts to those of, say, cows? The cow has TWO STOMACHS! for example. I honestly believe that it doesn't matter what we eat, so long as there is no damage and no chemicals. Some people thrive on raw food, some on cooked. Some people are healthy and astonishingly long-lived on hard work and one protein, one carb. (meat and potatoes). Others (my family) are long-lived (85 - 95) on hard work, cooked breakfast (bacon, eggs etc) cold meat and salad for lunch, then a clear soup and a hard boiled egg for dinner!!  Who knows what the answer is?? We are a long-lived family who hate chemicals and love hard physical work. A clue, perhaps?  ps  Doesn't explain how I ended up with BC! XX kerry

kerry_lamb

PS:     I tell you what..the day I start estimating my longevity according to where my eyes are positioned is the day I lay down and die........and I mean  NO disrespect!

plainjane64

I don't think this is a right or wrong issue......everyone has an opinion and you know what they say about opinions.  Honestly there is Sooo much conflicting information out there.....and I think I've read a huge chunk of it and based on what I've read and what I like and feel best eating I've given up almost all animal products.  This is a hugely controversial topic but I've seen enough information.  Never been a tree hugger and won't be joining PETA...not that there is anything wrong w/ that but this decision was made for my health and to avoid a lot of chemicals and additives...My own BC surgery was followed by my bros surprise quad bipass.  These were good motivators. I had been eating anything and everything prior to diagnosis.  Virtually all sources do recommend increasing vegetables, some fruits and decreasing fats.  For me there is enough info regarding dairy products,increased IGF, plus the fact that the cows being milked are either injected and or pregnant or carry bovine leukemia and or bovine aids which is gross, whether they cross to humans or not, I do believe hormone levels are elevated and I don't want any more hormones. I never liked milk and I do weight bearing exercise. I will be getting a certificate thru Cornell soon.  I do confess to a couple of chick fil a sandwiches in the last month and I will be eating holiday foods in moderation but for the most part it's plants. I'd be happy to share any other texts, books, info if interested  but wouldn't impose it on others.

cheers

AllieM22

The Michael Pollan book mentioned above is GREAT. Talks about how our diet came to be the way it is and why it is so important to get the bad elements of the Western diet. A great read--not extremist--just really insightful.