OT-daughter afraid to get attached

caaclark

I am hoping someone can help me with this.  I have 3 daughters, ages 11, 9, and 7.  We are thinking about getting a dog but my middle daughter has been telling us that she does NOT want one.  When pressed for why she told me today that, "I don't want to get connected to a pet and love it because then it will die."  She said this while crying.  I don't think it has anything to do with me since she said the same thing over 2 years ago (before bc).  I don't know what to do.  I talked to her about how everything/everyone dies some day etc.  I really think having a dog will be a great thing for her, and even if/when it dies it will give her skills and teach her lessons about life and living but at the same time I don't want to traumatize her.  By the way, my other daughers want a dog desperately (so do I) and I know a dog would be great for them.

My middle daughter is way more intelligent than her age suggests but I can't seem to reason with her about this.  It seems unusual to me that she would feel so strongly about this.  And, part of me thinks that we should get a dog so that she deals with this issue before it is time for her to find a life partner.

Any opinions on this one? 

djd

Carol,

I don't have children, so I am immensely unqualified to give advice.  But, from personal experience, I can recall how painful the movies targeting children can be - the mother (ie., Bambi) or someone's pet (Old Yellar) in the story dies.  I don't understand why this formula is necessary for children's movies, but it's very frustrating and I can imagine that seeing a movie or some other story in the media at the wrong time could leave a child afraid to experience the loss of a pet.

Tell your daughter, that, as someone who has suffered the loss of several pets, I know it hurts so dang much, but look at it this way - I would hate for my pet to outlive ME and be given to strangers!

Good luck with this - it sounds like tricky territory for a parent.

Dejaboo

Hi Carol,

  Gosh, I dont have any ideas on what you can tell her.

I do know soo many people that have had dogs (well we all do ) Loved every minute with them...Even though its so Sad when you have to say goodbye.

I have 2 teens 17 & 20.  They have had dogs in their lives since the day they came  home from the hospital.  I think it has been a great experience for them & they have learned how to love an Animal & care for it.  

 My teen dog came with me when I got married & died when my Oldest was 3.5 yrs & my youngest was 1.  The  next dog we got was with us up until 3 years ago...We were all at the vets when she crossed the  bridge -Her death was Unexpected... and very sad.   Though we all did ok.    We had a 3rd dog in there that died young at only 4- Cancer....This was expected & we took time at home to take Pictures & Say goodbye-then all headed to the Vets...we all got to say goodbye.  They were 11 & 9 at the time...That was a little bit harder age for them- But they really did ok when we lost her (better then me that time- she was my Angel Dog)

And we have a 4th dog (Deja )   I hope she is with us a long time...

If I asked my kids how they felt about loosing our Dogs- I know they would say it  is sad & hard, that they miss them...They still talk about them & they remember them & laugh about how the dogs did dorky & fun things...And then they would say- I will always want a dog in my life.

I would also add - I lived with dogs most of my life - since age 2.  My Parents divorced when I was 8 & the dogs went with my Dad..at 12 I got my Own dog a Springer...And she was- Wow- So great in helping me through my teen years!   They sure listen when we share our problems with them!  She was the dog that came with me when I got Married

I hope you can work this out with her...I think a Dog would be great for all of you.

Pam

iodine

I wonder ---- perhaps her fears are more about death, as well as loss of a loved one, but really more about death.  it's really spooky at any age, but especially hers.  If you can find it, there's a great book about death called": The Fall of Freddie the Leaf.  It's an amazing little book that I've used with cancer families to help kids know more about death and continuing life.

If you have a good pastor, it may do her some good to visit with her/him and have some discussions about life and death.

My daughter will NOT watch an animal movie, read about animal stories, or animal planet on TV.  She's 39---but she's had several dogs and cats.  She now is mom to a dog and a cat.  She's the most tender hearted person I've ever met.  She cannot go to a humane shelter, she'd bring them all home. 

 I know where you're comming from, but if yours was my family, she'd be out voted.  Sounds harsh, but try taking her to help choose the dog.  It may help.

Diana_B

Hi Carol,

 Your post really touched me. I could relate to it totally as I experienced something similar due to my parents' divorce and the loss of my dog at that time. And it did affect my ability to find a life partner etc.

It sounds like your daughter has a sense of imminent danger and pessimism about her own chances for happiness. And so she can't take a risk. I don't think a single conversation will suffice - she might need ongoing support around taking risks and being part of life. I would go ahead and get the dog too and support her in dealing with the fear and the temptation. I say temptation because I saw a documentary once where the interviewer asked a gypsy woman how her people found the strength to go on after so much suffering etc. and she said "We succumb to the temptation to exist."

Do you know the short story writer Alice Munro? She's one of my favorites and your post reminded me of a story in "Dance of the Happy Shades" that has stayed with me over the years. It's called "Red Dress - 1946" and is about a young girl who goes to a dance - I don't want to tell you the ending in case you do read it, but it takes place at exactly the emotional point your daughter is at. 

 I don't mean to scare you in saying this issue did affect my life in the way you fear for your daughter. You sound so much more aware and sensitive than my own parents and you've got lots of time to address it yet.  I think it's good too that she told you and didn't try to hide her fear from you - it seems she trusts you and hasn't yet learned to be embarrassed about her feelings.

Sincerely,

Darya 

NoH8

That's a tough one. Your daughter's fears are atypical for a child her age and show a sensitivity and ability to project future situations (albeit not necessarily correctly). That said, I agree with darya that her concerns also show pessimism and fearfulness that are worrisome, particularly if she exhibits this in other areas of her life.

I'm a child psychologist and i've worked with many kids who expressed similar type fears, rarely in a vacuum. Rather than trying to reason with her, I would question her further. "What would it be like for you if we had the dog and she died in 10 years?" "Tell me about the last time you were sad (and then get to how the feeling passed)." Try to empower her to come up with her own answers, rather than telling her she'll be ok. This will mean much more if she decides she is strong enough to deal with disappointment and sadness than if you fill try to convince her. Empathize rather than try to convince and share some of your losses and how you've overcome them. Don't downplay it or talk down to her. I wouldn';t even discuss this in terms of the dog, but of life and loss.

I would bet that some of this does harken back to your cancer diagnosis and how as a 7 year old she perceived that vs. how as a 9 year old she may see things differently. Kids like to know what's going on in their families and they hate being left out of the discussion. When they're left with questions they fill in the blanks, usually with the worst case scenario.  When kids ask questions like, "Are you going to die." They're better off hearing, "I hope not." Than a definite NO when the situation suggests otherwise.

Lastly, I would table the dog discussion for now, because this is about more than getting a pet. Your daughter needs to know that her feelings matter and a dog isn't going to be thrust upon her when she's not ready for one. Feel free to PM me.

wishiwere

Are you getting a dog from the humane society or rescue center type?  IF so, perhaps a discussion about how you will all be saving this animal from being raised in a confined area and able to give it a home to grow up and be happy like she is?  I know once you get one, she'll do better and probably be very close to it, so I would get one.  Every child needs an animal I think.   Even we did growing up although one brother had allergies to them.  But you know what?  HE got a cat about 10 years and is closer to her than I've ever seen anyone.  He dosesn't though like dogs. Weird.

Has she had much contact with dogs?  IS there a slight chance she has a fear of dogs in anyway?  If she's comfortable with them in other situations, then yes.  IF not, it might be a different concern that she's not sharing with you?  I don't think so, but one never knows with 9 y/o's!

Diana_B

 Me again. 

I went away and did my meditation and I think I agree with Amy now around not getting the dog quite yet. It may make her feel unimportant.

 I also love what Amy says around sharing your feelings about life and loss, and speaking from the heart and from your own experience, and having her decide if she's strong enough etc.

Your daughter does sound really sensitive, which means she probably has an enormous capacity for joy too. 

roseg

I agree with Amy and Darya. I think it's important to respect your child's concerns.

Some things in community life can be run by majority rule. Sometimes running by consensus is necessary. 

Since your one daughter has a strong feeling about it I think I'd let this be a consensus family decision.

caaclark

Thanks all for your great advice.

Amy-do you have any resources or books you can point my way?  I had a long conversation with her and she seems interested (not sure if that is the word to use) in what happens after pets die.  Her main concern seems to be the fact that she will never be able to communicate or play with them after they die. 

My husband was talking to her last night about her first day of school.  She mentioned that there was a new girl in her class.  My husband said, "What if you two have a lot in common but you found out she was going to move in 3 years.  Would you still want to be friends with her?"  She said, "Would I be able to write her a letter or email her."  My husband said, "No."  She responded with, "I don't want a dog!" 

NoH8

CA- I actually do  have a number of books, including age appropriate books about grief.   They're packed away in the closet so I'll have to fish them out. I think your daughter has caught on  (at least from her  perspective) that people are trying to teach or convince, (form her perspective) her something about a getting a dog. My advice would be to back off because she's on to you .  She sounds like she's brighter and more perspective than most her age, maybe even more so than her older sister which can be a blessing and a curse.

There's actually a website http://www.myemailstoheaven.com/ where people can send emails to their loved ones who have died.

I would ask her if she feels like people are trying to convince her that it's ok to get a dog. She'll probably say yes. Apologize and tell her what that you won't do that any more. Explain that you're concerned because she seems to be worried about something that most 9 yos aren't worried about. You don't think they is something wrong with her, but you're curious and interested in what she's thinking.

I'll dig the books out later and give you some titles and authors.

sherryw

I am sort of going through something similar but it is with my 19 year old, she got her first dog 8 years ago.  It is totally her dog.  Well, about 3 months ago we found out that she has bone cancer, we have her on strong pain meds right now and that is keeping it under control, but my daughter knows the inevitable.  She was saying that when Sophie dies she will loose her love of dogs because she feels that Sophie is the one who gave her the love for dogs that she has now.  But, she says she would do it all over again just to have those 8 years with Sophie.  I know when Sophie dies she will take some time to heal and then she will get another because she know the love that a pet can give and also receive.

I also would like to add something that others may not agree with but you are asking for advice so I am sure you want to hear all angles and views.

I agree with Rose, I think that maybe if you told your daughter that she is part of a family.  There are four other people in the family that really want a dog because they know the love that a dog can bring to a family.  Those family members know that eventually one day in the future that the dog will die, but that is something that you keep in the back of your mind and will try not to dwell on it.  When that happens maybe in 3 years or 14 years  that you will deal with it as a family.  But, in the meantime you will be able to have so much fun and be able to share so much love.  I would also tell her that because she really doesn't want a dog that she will not be asked to do anything for the dog that she doesn't want to (she will want to trust me) like walking feeding bathing or cleaning up.  Tell her that sometimes in families the other family members do things they do not really want to in order for other family members to be happy and have something they really want.  Some day she may really want something or do something that the other family members may not want to but they will go along with it because that is what a family does. 

I breed Golden Retrievers and I talk to a lot of people and I have people come to get a new puppy the day they have just put a family pet to sleep due to illness and I have had people say that they needed a year to grieve and now they are ready for a new pup.  I always tell them that this new puppy will never replace their lost pet but it will replace the time they have spent with their pet.

Sorry this is so long but thats what it took.  I think you are doing the right thing getting different opinions and then you can take bits and pieces of those opinions to make your decision as a family. 

sherry

NoH8

I looked through my books. From what I have, my favorite book for kids is I WISH I COULD HOLD YOUR HAND by Dr. Pat Palmer.  I'm sure below her reading level, but it's one of those books that have a message for both adults and children. It talks about loss comprehensively, death, moving away, divorce and is about the feelings.  of missing someone or something. the author is a family therapist. I could lend you my copy, since it's just gathering dust in the closet, but I think the newer editions have a parent guide in them. Nothing else I have is appropriate or nearly as good.

I have to disagree with monkey's above post, because adding a pet to your family when one member is showing anxiety and a possible phobia is different than deciding whether to go to burger king or Mcdonald's for dinner. You don't want to do something that has the potential to overlook a psychological vulnerability and see it compound to other issues during her childhood and adolescence and onto adulthood. I'm not saying that her problem is so serious that it would take that route, just that taking your time and her time is important at an age where she solidifies some of the cornerstones of her personality and reasoning in terms of brain and psychological development. I've known plently of well adjusted people who didn't get another pet after losing their first or most special pet, and they've been adults.

 As much as I hated losing my first cat and worry about losing my 17 yo baby, the pain of the loss is worth it for me, but I respect that it's not that way for everyone. I have 4 cats and I have to admit, I got the last one 2 yrs ago because he looks exactly like my oldest guy and they have similar personalities. I didn't get him as a replacement, but because I thought maybe it will make the eventual loss easier. I've been telling my oldest baby for years that he has to live forever (as long as he's healthy) and I'll be devestated when he dies.

One of my friends from grad school was a vet part time and going to school part time because she wanted to become a grief counselor for people who lost pets. Apparently there was a real need for the specialty (according to her). I could never ever do it, too much countertransference and projection as you can see by the length of this post.

caaclark

Amy-Thanks so much.  I will look up the book online to see if I can get a copy.   Of course, since my daughter is indeed onto me she may not want to read it with me.   

Sherry-Thank you for your perspective.  Yes, I do want a variety of opinions on this one.   I am still not sure which way we will go on this one.  Amy has some great points and at the same time there is a part of me that thinks that she will be fine even if we decide to get a pet. Right now I am putting it on hold at least in the short term.  Maybe revisit it in spring.  Although I keep thinking about this one beautiful puppy I saw the other day.  I have actually been dreaming about her the last 2 nights.  I love my children but they sure can be complicated.

NoH8

Caa- I think if you're up front with your daughter and tell her why you got the book she'll be much more likely to talk to you. Frame it as if she's "ready" (old or mature enough) to talk about this and you're interested in how she sees things and what she thinks about death and loss-- not that you're trying to change her mind, but you want to know her better.