I am an optimist by nature. You?

winner

I am a BC survivor.

I could be wrong but sometimes I seem to pick up that some folks are really negative or bitter.

Would you say that you are an optimist?  Do you see the silver lining in every dark cloud even the BC dx dark cloud?

dhettish

That's a good question, Winner, and I have to say my optimism waxes and wanes as I go through this journey.

22 years ago, I was dx with bone cancer in my right jaw and lost it and had recon. Most people don't notice. I always said the silver lining is that cancer gave me such a zest for life that I began scuba lessons, met my husband and learned to rappel, cave and climb towers. I had a terrible fear of hights. I learned to live without teeth or gums on the right side although after all this time, it still feels different. I don't feel sorry for myself. It is just part of my story.

As with BC, I was really scared because it is not curable as bone cancer was. I was told that after my chemo, I have a 30% chance of recurrence and I choose to compare it to the weatherman. When he says we have a 30% chance of rain, it rarely rains. But BC, maybe because of my age, has been much harder and the pain rougher. I am almost finished with my expansion and the pain has been incredible and I have not been as positive. I get frustrated with both types of comments "I am so proud of you for all you been through" and with "You'll be fine".  For the most part, I have stayed positive, but there have been very dark days. Before BC, I worked out and did yard work and was extremely active. That has all but ended. I am so fatigued and in pain most of the time. That has been the most frustrating.

I don't feel I am bitter, but I do remember being upset at how great Robin Roberts looked during chemo. Me, I gained 27 lbs of fluid from Taxotere, had extreme leg pains and so much more. But I survived it. My attitude changes from day to day, but I believe that I stay positive about me for the most part. I do suffer from self pity, anger, and grief from time to time. I am just ready to "finish" this journey although it is never really finished.

This is something I have to really think about. I want to be a positive and caring person. I want to show that BC is rough, but with support, we can get through it no matter what happens. I never want to minimize the devastating and traumatic effects BC can have on a person and at the same time show that we can not only survive but thrive in the face of it.

Thanks for posing this question. In light of the Christina Applegate and my anger about her yesterday (over it today), I will assess my thoughts and feelings and try to be a much better woman. 

Debbie 

winner

Debbie,

Thanks for your response.

Debbie,  I am sure you are a beautiful and very special woman!!!!

I think we all go through things that bring us incredible challenges and immense pain (physical or emotional).  I also believe part of healing requires the release of negative emotions be it anger, feeling sorry for ourselves, etc.   However, I also believe that IF we hold on to the negative for a LONG PERIOD of time and it is MORE A CONSTANT in our lives than not, it is most hurtful to us more than anyone else.

We all go through hard times but I believe that good fosters good.  That which is toxic fosters more toxic.  IF we allow the good to start within us and we intern are good to others, we combat the negative with good.  Even when we are at our lowest, bitterness is destructive whereas hope is light. 

Just my take.

Winner 

  

Harley44

I am not normally an optomist, but after my bc dx, when I was first dx'd, I thought that since I was told that only positive people could survive bc, I thought, "I'm a goner..."  But, I really tried to change my way of thinking, and although I had my moments, since I was very scared, and having to make all these decisions about my tx was very overwhelming for me, I think I was able to remain positive through my tx.  I think once I decided about my tx plan, I was ok and I managed to get through it fairly easily.  But now it has been almost 1 1/2 years since my bc dx, and it just seems like it is ONE THING after another.  I don't know why, but being this far out of treatment, I guess I just think things should be getting back to 'normal'. 

However, I havd had problems with Tamoxifen... It causes all these polyps to grow inside my uterus, and I just had a D & C with Hysteroscopy.  I have to tell you that every surgery has been more painful than the last...  I had bi-lateral mastectomy with delayed reconstruction, and the reconstruction was painful!  My recovery from this D & C has also been very painful.   I wanted a hysterectomy which would also be painful, just so that I could avoid worrying about getting uterine cancer.  I was so freaked out worrying about the possibility of yet another cancer dx, I really couldn't deal with it.

So for me, the active tx part of my treatment was a breeze, but now, new problems and new dx seem to just keep coming up almost daily. 

I guess I will have to do a little self-talk, to convince myself that I can survive my post treatment period, too.

Thanks for posting this question.   It is thought provoking.

Harley

Lucy47

Hi Winner,

Thank you so much for your positive attitude ....I also believe that good fosters good. I was more scared than angry when I was dx last Nov. but every time I saw a doctor or went for a test I always looked at the positive. Even during treatment I usually made jokes or treated myself to something special i.e. lunch out, ( I even bought myself a gold thumb ring when I finished chemo as my reward). I also put on mascara even when all I had was 1 or 2 eyelashes, my thought was since they stuck with me I was going to make sure they looked good.lol. So again thanks so much for starting this thread and hopefully more women will add....their positive note to this.

Lucy

winner

Harley,

We cannot always be up and positive but we can always try not to let the negative overcome us.

Lucy,

Sometimes we are dealt horrible cards in life and they are what they are.  We don't understand them and probably never will (until we meet with God and ask him) but THEY ARE WHAT THEY ARE.  When we learn to be accepting and make the best of things is when when "I believe" we end up in a better position.  We can be angry and bitter and even hateful but how is that going to change things?  Ultimately, it is these very things that sometimes make things worse.

Again, just my thoughts.

abbadoodles

I'm a born optimist.  I think it's either in you or not.  One of the mysteries of life.  I don't fault others who have gloomier outlooks but I'm very glad I'm not among them.  They seem to be unhappy often.

I've had bc twice but still feel that I am very lucky to have made it this far (60 yo) in life.  So many have not been so lucky.

Probably my words elsewhere on these boards speak for themselves. 

anneshirley

Every dark cloud does not have a silver lining, whether speaking metaphorically or meteorologically, and anger is a very appropriate response to many of the ugly things that happen to us and to others.  I'm still angry about our government's response to Katrina--so many people suffered (and are still suffering) for no reason other than incompetence!  If we all got angry, and acted on our anger, these things might not happen again.  With respect to illness, it's interesting to note that recent studies have demonstrated that positivity does not increase our changes of survival and a recent study also showed, in contrast to an earlier flawed study, that support groups do not increase the survivability of those suffering from a serious disease.  I am always concerned when the suggestion is thrown out that we should stay positive.  My own opinion (I always have an opinion) is that there is no single way to respond to any event in our own lives or the lives of others.  Anger and bitterness are appropriate responses to certain events and much of the good in this world has been done by those who angry and bitter about what they perceived as unfairness or injustice did something to bring about change. The power of positive thinking is vastly overrated.    

winner

Anne,

 I do believe there is a silver lining somewhere be it a lesson learned for myself or others, inner strength, etc.  I believe there are no absolutes be it nothing is all postive or all negative.  This is just me.

I also believe that anger, dissappointment, grief, etc. are part of healing with any traumatic event or setback we experience.  HOLDING ON TO THE NEGATIVE IS WHAT I BELIEVE IS NOT A GOOD THING FOR ANYONE ESPECIALLY THE INDIVIDUAL WHO HOLDS ON TO THESE.

Forgiveness and accepting the fact that there are many things we have no control over or will ever understand in this lifetime are important in moving through the grieving process onto better things in my opinion.

anneshirley

The operative words in your post are "I believe" and "in my opinion," which is fine if it's what keeps you going.  It's has nothing whatever to do with truth, alas. It's a bit like the Christian right insisting that "creationism" be taught as science.  It obviously makes them happy, but it won't get their children into the better schools--thinking of the recent court ruling upholding UCLA in its refusal to admit students from a school that teaches "creationism" instead of science.   And it won't change the fact that the world was not created in seven days. Again, finding a silver lining may work for you; it doesn't work for everyone, nor should it. 

winner

Anne,

I agree in that what I share are my thoughts and opinions. Perhaps my views are in fact a blessing for me.  I don't know but it makes life easier.

I cry and then I dry my tears and realize I must go on and how I move forward in life is ultimately a choice.  My choice is to laugh again which is what I attempt to do, crying is too painful and many times crying changes nothing in to a postive direction.

Hope this makes sense.

pip57

I spent the first part of my life a devoted pessimist.  I figured that that way I would never be disappointed, only pleasantly surprised by life.  When my 16 year old daughter was dying of cancer she begged me not to be bitter when she was gone.  I have tried every day of my life to honor that wish.  

At this time my parents were a huge influence on me.  My dad was the "pessimist/victim" and my mom was the "optimist/get on with it" personalities.  I actually made a conscious decision to try and emulate my mother.  My dad's outlook on life and 'poor me' attitude only made himself miserable.  I had made a promise to Cassie and was determined to keep it.

Eleven years later, I think I have made an amazing change.  Of course, as others have posted above, it is not something that stays constant.  It is up and down.  But I do feel my life has been better because of this conscious choice and that, although I have the nagging doubts and fears that bc blesses us with, I believe in the 'get  on with it' approach.  Some days it's harder to do than others.

So, for the pessimists out there, with the right motivation, you really can make a change.   

AnnNYC

Winner, I appreciate your description of internal attitude changes that benefit you.

However, sometimes people insist on only hearing "positivity" from others who have valid feelings of anger, grief and fear -- and that insistence is tyrannical and, I believe, emotionally unhealthy.  It might be called "denial."  Some people who are overly "chipper" are in fact quite emotionally brittle and walling off deep feelings of anger and grief that they have never come to terms with.  It is one thing to experience one's righteous anger and grief, and emerge with renewed energy for life's struggles.  It is another thing to entirely repress such so-called "negative" emotions -- for many people, it may be just as damaging or fruitless to deny or disconnect from those emotions as it would be to "hang on to them for too long."

You know, Jesus used his righteous anger to overturn the tables of the moneylenders in the temple!  I think his example may be entirely embraced by women who come here to express their justified anger over their current circumstances, which allows them to battle on with renewed vigor!

pip57

I didn't  get the feeling from Winner that she was repressing her emotions.  Her philosophy sounds very much like mine.  When the anger and fear comes, we cry, yell, or whatever we need to do.  But then we get up and get on with life.  I think it is healthier, both mentally and physically, to let it out than to let it fester.  And I don't see the point in being angry at other people for their feelings (ie: comments that we would prefer not to hear) as their feelings are just as valid as ours.

Harley44

Winner,  and Pretty In Pink, and Tina,

Tina, I also used to think that you were born either an optimist or a pessimist and there was nothing you could do to change. 

But, after my bc dx, I really tried to make a conscious effort to be more positive.  I think it helped me to get on with my tx, once I made the decision to get chemo (I was one of the lucky ones who got to DECIDE whether to get chemo), and to get through my tx.

The main thing that I believed helped me through this last year was GOD.  Every time I needed something, even before I knew I needed it, it was there.  GOD got me through, every step of the way.  I didn't have any problems after my surgeries, and even went for a walk the day after my double mastectomy.  Also, I was not very sick from the chemo.  It seemed that GOD was protecting me. 

Now that my active tx is finished, I am finding it difficult to be happy with my new normal...  I guess that even though I may occasionally backslide into negative thinking, it is good to know that there is still hope for us who are not natural born optimists. 

I guess I need to remind myself that if GOD got me through all that stuff last year, HE will get me through the rest of this, too.  HE will never leave us or forsake us.

Pretty In Pink,

I am so very sorry for the loss of your daughter!! 

My MIL is one of those 'no nonsense...get on with it' types too, and I find her very harsh and unfeeling sometimes.  I believe that we should be able to lean on the ones we love and to tell them when we are scared.   I don't know if this makes any sense.  I guess I am just saying that even if you are trying to be positive, there is still the nagging fear and doubt sometimes.

Even if the 'get on with it' approach isn't always the easiest thing to do,  in the end, it is the only thing to do.  I would love to just hide under the bed with my cat, Spike, but I didn't. 

Harley

Wintermoon623

Pretty In Pink:  When I read your post my heart skipped a beat.  I have a 17 year old daughter named Cassie.  Recently I took her to the dermatologist to have some suspicious moles looked at and she appears to be covered with pre-cancerous moles.  Several have been removed with more to come.  I always considered myself to be a positive person and throughout my surgeries and treatment I've held it together.  When that dermatologist told me that Cassie's moles would probably be melanomas by the time she reaches her 20's, you could have scraped me off the floor.  I was a mess.  It really put me in a tailspin.  Now I tell myself (and her) that we're addressing this problem early while she only has "atypical" cells and not melanoma.  I am very sorry for your loss.

Since my own diagnosis I've tried very hard to be upbeat.  I've tried to live in the moment, etc.  For the most part I've been successful.  However, as I'm ending my radiation treatments I find I am anxious about recurrence.  I try to remind myself that dark and negative thoughts are just not helpful and I really need to focus on all the good.  And there has been a lot of good this last year, as well as the bad. 

AnnNYC

Pretty in Pink, and Winner,

I'm sorry if I implied that Winner was repressing emotions -- that's not what I meant.  And I really wasn't feeling (and hopefully, not expressing!) anger at her Winner for her comments!  What I was trying to say, though, was that a lot of women come here to let out their anger, fear and grief at a time when it is most intense, and I am concerned that those women might feel labeled as "bitter", or as if they were being told prematurely to "get on with it", even if that was far from Winner's intent.

Also, Pretty in Pink, I was writing my post before I saw yours -- so maybe my comments looked really out of place following yours.  I can't imagine anything more devastating than the loss of a child, and I recognize what tremendous depths and faith and incredible effort it must take to will yourself back to optimism and loving life and moving forward, in honor of your daughter's spirit.

I do understand that some people remain bitter and it hurts them most of all, and I really appreciate that Winner wants to help those people recover.

I'm sorry if I sounded insensitive.  I guess I was just trying to make a distinction of different moments in time, on behalf of those women here who may feel judged "bitter" for expressing their anger/fear/grief about BC, at the moment when they are in the thick of it.  As Harley said so well, "we should be able to lean on the ones we love and to tell them when we are scared" -- and I think that especially includes being able to lean on each other here!

pip57

Harley,

No arguments here.  It sounds like your MIL is one of those who suppresses her fears and anxieties.  That is not what I do.  And I agree that the 'get on with it' approach is not always easy but it really is easier than being miserable and visiting that misery on others around us.  Perhaps the fact that I have several very supportive friends that allow me to talk about my experiences helps me to work through my feelings and 'get on with it'.

anneshirley

We all get on with our lives, which doesn't mean that we're positive or optimistic or believe in God, it just means that we prefer life to death. I know I do.   

Winter--I've had many pre-cancerous lesions removed f'rom my skin over the course of my life, starting in my early thirites.  If your daughter takes care of them early, she'll be fine, and scaring is minimal.  My niece had a melanoma in her late 20's and is fine, the mother of two healthy children and well into her 40's.   

Harley44

Pretty,

I think I must be very sensitive about the 'get on with it' way of thinking, if it denies our feelings.  I realize that you said in your original post that you still have those nagging doubts and fears.  We all do, of course. 

My MIL told me that before her surgeries, she would never think of telling her dh that she was scared.  I disagree with that approach.  I thought that was what friends and dh's are here for, support when things get tough.  

Hope I wasn't too sensitive, I didn't mean to be. 

Wintermoon623

Thank you Anneshirley.  I think my meltdown was due to the fact that my daughter's mole situation came in the middle of my treatment....I was like WHAT ELSE??!!!  I went from hardly ever thinking about cancer (doesn't run in my family at all...heart disease is our big problem) to having cancer in my face every day.  To have that word linked to my sweet, funny, beautiful daughter was tough to take.  I'm glad to hear of such good outcomes for you and your niece.

Harley 44: My very stoic mother had polio at 19.  It left her unable to use her legs.  She never complained and she never wanted to talk about it.  I often think it would have been better for her to share her fears and feelings.  She kept everything bottled up.

Desny

 Winner, thank you for starting this thread.   I think it helps us all look at ourselves and the events in our lifes and take stock.  I was always the positive one in our family.  Many tragic things happened in my life but I always managed to cope, stay happy and move on.  I had a few scares with bc before my final dx in 2007.   At age 16 I had my first scare and and major operation to have a large cyst removed, thank god b9.  Up until 2007 I was in constant pain with that breast.  I always appreciated my health and took care of myself.  I was blown away with my dx of bc and all the tests, treatments and scares of what stage I was at.  I think emotionally it really took a toll on me and I am still recovering.  Each time I go back to Sloan for a check up which is every 4 months I start to shake.  That starts 2 weeks before the appointment!  I asked the nurse this week, at my 4 month appointment while I was crying - when will I feel better emotionally?  She said the further out I am from the treatments.  I do think I have a positive outlook on my life, I think emotionally, I still feel the trauma of the treatments and tests.  I am coming to terms with it but it sure sucked away some of my self-confidence - I can either help myself or add to the damage.  I finally can say, I need to be me again and move on!   Each day I try to remind myself of the positves in my journey. 

dx 4/07  IDC - mastectomy 5/07 1 cm, stage 1  0/6 nodes   chemo cmf 6/07 to 11/07

winner

Desny,

Yup, the trauma kicks our butt emotionally.

I went through a very painful divorce.  The grief associated with his infidelity and utlimately losing my dreams and family was huge for me. Horrible, horrible, horrible pain and a hit emotionally.

Then having to be a single mom and juggle career and family alone was trying.

Then I was dx with breast cancer.

I went through a bilateral mastectomy.  Sad beyond words.

Then I  lost my breast a second time due to an infection.   Double wammy.

Then I was told recostruction may not be an option again for me. Ouch and I am single.

I almost died during treatment and as a result of errors made by doctors. Scary.

Lost hair. Breast and hair was scary and sad.

Then I was told I had MS.  How would I support my girls as a single mom considering I would lose my job if I did have MS. This was very emotionally scary. 

The list goes on but through it all I have grown and keep on going.  This is not to say that emotionally, I didn't go through some crazy stuff and a ton and ton of tears and anger and fear, (I too cried before seeing the docs, my body would go into overdrive just driving into the parking lot)etc.

However, my saying is this too shall pass.  I never hated or was bitter with my husband, his other woman, God or anyone else for what has happen to me. You have a right to go through the grief, in fact it is healthy to do it.  Emotionally it takes us longer to heal but at some point there came a time when I saw a fork in the road.  I could keep the negative going down one road or choose a better path away from the negative.   I learned to let go and move down the sunny side of the road.  On a side note, I never could have done the latter without God.  He was my saving grace through all of it.  He still is. 

Thanks for your response. 

Harley44

Yes, Winner, I also believe that GOD is the only one who got me through all the stuff I have been through.  Last year, whenever I needed something, it was there...  A case manager called me from my insurance after my bi-lateral mast.  Just wanted me to know that I qualified for their case management program.  The woman who was assigned to be my case manager used to be a nurse for a ps...  she was familiar with bc patients and breast reconstruction, so she walked me through getting all the necessary approvals and even second opinion onc. referrals.  I know of no other reason why things went so smoothly for me except GOD. 

HE has been there with me through it all, the good and the bad, and HE will continue to get me through whatever problems I may face in the future.

dhettish

Pretty, I am so sorry about your daughter.

Harley, you are right about God getting us through things. I also believes that God puts people in our lives to help us as well. Hence this wonderful site and all you women who have helped me get through this and listen to my bitches and whines.

Through this site, I have discovered that when I am feeling really low, I look for the newly diagnosed and try to comfort them that they, too, can get through this with help. It always makes me feel better and thankful that I am no longer in the beginning so scary stage. I have come to accept my disease and live with it. I don't know why I got cancer and I sure don't drive myself crazy with that question. That's just life. And I know that things could always be worse. I am thankful that I have this site and all you women, a caring and supportive family, good insurance....the list goes on.

I have been thinking about this topic all day. I have been extremely tired and it is very hot outside so I am unable to garden which always makes me feel better. So I got out my beads and began stringing. I ended up with a beautiful necklace and decided I liked it so much that I will make them for Christmas presents. Nothing fancy, just beads on stretchy string. I make some bracelets for cancer patients. I know I always loved getting freebies. I was so thankful for the hats some church ladies made. If I could sew or knit, I would make some.

That is how I try to stay positive....doing for others. It gets me out of me and helps me not be so down. I feel like I am making a difference no matter how small.

Enjoy the evening.

Debbie 

BethNY

I agree with Tina.  I think true optimism is something you are born with.  I guess it sounds weird to type or say it out loud, but I absolutely think I am wired differently than most people.  My life goes way beyond a silver lining... it's like a platinum lining... I can touch poop and turn it to gold metaphorically speaking of course.

I remember when my oncologist was doing the adjuvent program-- you know, the one that tells you your percent of 5 yr survival if you do this tx, or this surgery.... so at one point my rate of 5 yr cancer free survival was 82% and in my mind that registered as 100%.  It's just the way I am.

My grandmother was a pessimest.  A total Eeyore.  And when I was a little girl, she looked at me and said, Bethie, Not everyone loves you.

And I turned to her and very matter of factly stated, Yes, Grandma, they do.

I laugh at this now, but it's always the way that I have felt.  I love surrounding myself with positive people and I love to share my energy.

I have this theory about my life that I came up with when I entered college, and it still holds true.

Some people say their glass is half empty.  Others see their glass as half full.

Well, my glass-- is Overflowing.  Now, it doesn't mean that I don't want to kick it over some days, and on other days I wish it was full of something different, however-- if you're having a glass half empty kind of a day, come and take a sip, hell, take a gulp of mine if you need it.  Cause I've got plenty to give.

All these books like The Secret, and all these talks about the laws of attraction, and what thinking positive does for the mind, body and soul... I can't believe people need books to figure this stuff out.  Which brings me to my original statement, that I think I'm wired differently.

My mom says she's a realist, although I think borderline pessimist, and maybe rightly so.  She had  pessimistic parents and a really hard life.  But the cycle stops with her.  Bad things happen in my life, but I never really see them as bad.  Things just happen.  This is how life works.

Many of you remember my old signature, I only play to win... well the whole statement is, Life may not always deal you a fair hand of cards, but I only play to win.

It just works for me.  I would never judge someone for not thinking this way, b/c I know that more than 75% of the people I know, do not think and feel the way I do.  I never try to make someone feel like they aren't positive enough-- that's not my job, but I do love to help people realize their greatest potential, and sometimes people need to be reminded that they should not feel bad about living their best life.

AnnNYC

Beth, what a beautiful post!

I think we ARE wired differently, and one of my little mantras is "It takes all kinds."

When you talked about the glass half-full, half-empty, and overflowing...

I thought of the engineer joke: "This glass is twice as big as it needs to be!"

That's how I tend to see things and interpret things -- runs in my family, too.  Can strike both the optimists and pessimists as a little weird!  Optimists can think I'm "negative" and pessimists can think my emotions are off -- oh well!

It takes all kinds!  I think that is so true, of societies and families -- and in evolutionary terms too.  There are strengths in groups that no one individual can have, because we need the sensitive (to understand and soothe and connect to each other), the fearful (to anticipate dangers and prepare defenses), the optimistic (to move forward, to be brave enough to fall in love and have children, to DO) -- and the analytical have a lot to add as well.

Love you all!

SandyAust

Hi Ann,

I am not sure if I am an optimist or a pessimist.  And I certainly wouldn't waste any energy sitting around trying to stick other people into one of those categories (can't understand why people do that - arrogance???).  However I found your post really funny. 

Perhaps it is because I am married to an engineer.  Or maybe I am a little weird too.

Thanks for the giggle.

Sandy

AnnNYC

Hi Sandy,

Glad you liked it!  It really cracked me up the first time I came across that joke -- maybe especially because it was so true of me and half my siblings!

Ann

tawyna1

hi,

i love positive people.

i wish i was one.

i think being positive is good for you.

abbadoodles

I've been thinking more about optimism and am thinking that the way some of us feel, the way I feel, may have something more going on than optimism.  There's that old "feel-good" chemical concoction bubbling through our veins.

What do I mean by this?  When I was lying in bed, exhausted, on those few days after chemo tx, I was weak but thought "Wow, doesn't it feel great to be collapsed like this into the warmth and comfort and security of my bed?"  I automatically exulted in the warmth of the sun on my skin when I crossed the back yard. 

As the effects of the tx dissipated, I could relish the texture of good buttered toast on my tongue.  I could go for a walk and feel my muscles working under my skin and that gave me such pleasure.  I could shiver with delight from the cold water hitting my ankles when putting my kayak into the water.  Heck, I can get goose bumps just sitting here typing these words to you, looking out the window watching the spiders on my screen, listening to the insects sing their late summer song.  I'm incurable.

Certainly, feeling good about things may not do a thing for survival, but that isn't the point.  It's how you feel in the moment that counts because each moment is what you have.  I wish everyone was as crazy as I am so you could all feel at peace.

Nobody survives/lives forever.  We mortals are not hard wired to live forever.  It is the human condition.  Ashes to ashes.  Dust to dust.  The joy is in the middle.  It isn't denial to know that you will die one day but go on living as fully as possible while not dwelling on the inevitable.