cancer and the food we eat

amberyba

cancer and the food we eat

amberyba

I am curious is a vegetarian diet is beneficial for BC survivors, but I also wonder if any one was a vegetarian before diagnosed with BC.

I wasn't a vegetarian, ate more processed foods than fresh veges and fruits, and call me a chocoholic with pms.

but after I found the lump I ate healthier than ever, rarely eating chocolate, fried foods and fatty foods, junk foods....and I felt the best I have ever felt.

If anyone would share how they ate before cancer and if you changed or are changing the foods you eat, because of BC.

Thanks a bunch!

Cynthia1962

I had been a lacto/ovo vegetarian for about 20 yrs prior to my dx.  I ate a lot of veggies, didn't drink a lot of milk, ate a lot of soy (both processed and unprocessed), ate a little cheese, a little chocolate (mostly dark), used olive and canola oil, drank mostly water (purified) and unsweetened tea, ate mostly whole grain breads, took supplements, and so on.  After my dx, I sort of felt as if having a healthy diet hadn't done me a lot of good in the cancer dept.  I gave up soy and all other strong phytoestrogens, added chicken, turkey, and wild salmon to replace the soy protein, and decreased my carb intake a bit.  I try to not worry so much about what I eat now because I was pretty anal about it before and I still joined the club. 

Glad to hear you're feeling good!

Cynthia 

NativeMainer

Research does not support the theory that a high fruit/veggie diet prevents/reduces breast cancer recurrence:

from:  http://www.dor.kaiser.org/dors/news/July2007_diet_breast_cancer.shtml

Increasing Vegetable and Fruits Beyond Current Dietary Guidelines Does Not Reduce Breast Cancer Recurrence or Death, according to a new study

  

(List of authors skipped)

  

Eating a diet very high in vegetables, fruit and fiber and low in fat, did not reduce breast cancer recurrence or death in early stage breast cancer survivors, according to a study published in the July 18, 2007 issue of the Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA). The study is the largest randomized clinical trial to assess the influence of diet on additional breast cancer events.

  

*  *   *

  

"For the typical woman diagnosed with early stage breast cancer, there is no additional benefit from dramatically increasing consumption of plant-based foods rich in ‘cancer preventive' compounds, compared to following the recommended healthy diet (emphasis added)," said John Pierce, PhD, director of the Cancer Prevention and Control Program at the Moores UCSD Cancer Center

"These results do not mean that women should stop paying attention to what they eat," said Bette Caan, Dr.P.H., senior epidemiologist at the Kaiser Permanente Division of Research in Oakland, California. "In addition, being physically active, eating a diet with plenty of fruits and vegetables and moderate in fat is still one of the best ways we know to maintain a healthy weight."

The WHEL study followed 3,088 women, ages 18 to 70, for between 6 and 11 years. Participants were randomly assigned to one of two diet groups. The comparison group followed the guidelines promoted by the U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA), which include five vegetable and fruit servings per day, at least 20 grams of fiber per day and 30 percent fat.

The intensive intervention group was asked to follow a daily dietary pattern that included five vegetable servings, 16 fluid ounces of vegetable juice, 3 fruit servings, 30 grams of fiber and 15-20 percent of energy from fat.

At the start of the study, both groups consumed similar amounts of vegetables and fruits (7 servings a day on average), fiber and calories form fat. Telephone counseling helped women assigned to the intensive dietary group to change their diets substantially. At the end of the first year of observation, women in the intervention group had increased their vegetable and fruit intake to an average of 12 servings a day. They also increased their fiber intake substantially and decreased fat intake. These large changes in self-reported dietary pattern were validated by large changes in plasma carotenoid concentrations. By the fourth year of the trial, relative to the comparison group, the intensive dietary group was still consuming more vegetable servings (+65 percent), more fruit servings (+25 percent), more fiber (+30 percent), and less energy from fat (-13 percent). The difference in diets between the two groups was maintained throughout the trial.

After a median of 7 years of follow-up, the study observed no difference in recurrence or survival between groups. About 17 percent of women in both diet groups developed a breast cancer recurrence or new breast cancer and 10 percent of women in both groups died. (emphasis added)

The results do not rule out the possibility that following a diet extremely high in fruits, fiber and low in fat from a young age would be helpful. Further more, researchers will be investigating specific subgroups within this study to determine if any of the women might have received some additional benefit from the dietary change.

*   *     *

Kaiser Permanente is America's leading integrated health plan. Founded in 1945, it is a not-for-profit, group practice program headquartered in Oakland, Calif. Kaiser Permanente serves more than 8.7 million members in nine states and the District of Columbia. Today it encompasses the not-for-profit Kaiser Foundation Health Plan, Inc., Kaiser Foundation Hospitals and their subsidiaries, and the for-profit Permanente Medical Groups. Nationwide, Kaiser Permanente includes approximately 156,000 technical, administrative and clerical employees and caregivers, and 13,000 physicians representing all specialties.

Cynthia1962

Thanks Native for sharing that - I'd forgotten about that study.  The findings make sense to me since women all over the world who eat a variety of diets get breast cancer, including very young women and teens.  If only preventing breast cancer were as easy as controlling what we put in our mouths. 

Cynthia 

LumiPojo

I am thinking along the same lines - dietary changes wouldn't affect bad outcomes, but I hope they would increase one's immune system, and thus help deal with side effects, post-surgery recovery, etc. I may be wrong, of course - I don't know much at all about this, I am still trying to figure out what diet to plan for my mom, and am at the stage where I still gather info.

I heard, though, that the bc incidence is significantly reduced among the chinese, supposedly correlated with the lack of dairy in their diet. As an example, my chinese co-worker never tasted cheese, which is so hard for me to imagine ... I love dairy! Do you guys think there is any truth to that?

God bless -- Lumi.

sam52

There is a book written about just that : 'Your life in your Hands' by Jane Plant. (British)

She apparently had a recurrence of her bc 6 times until she gave up dairy; the thesis is that all milk (cows, sheep, goats, organic or not) has something called IGF-1 (insulin-like growth factor) which has been reputed to cause cancer cells to grow in vitro.

I actually was very anal about eliminating dairy from my diet for about 6 years after bc dx......now I have relaxed and do eat cheese occasionally and don't fret so much if there is some cream etc in food. I now believe in moderation in all things.

Sam

pip57

I love milk too but have given it up. The science just seems to make sense to me. However, there have been studies showing that fermented dairy products in cheeses and yogurt are somehow altered so that they are actually beneficial to us. So I continue to eat only fermented milk products.

DGHoff

I love hearing what everyone else is doing. It is all so confusing and I've looked under every nutritional rock only to get different opinions from different sources. The only thing I have to go on is how it makes me feel.  I'm finding that I sure feel a whole lot better since cutting out dairy (except an occasional raw goat milk cheese or grass-fed butter), limiting grains to primarily sprouted grain products (and sparingly at that), cutting out refined sugar, and eliminating pork from my diet.  I used to have mucus almost all the time and was clearing my throat constantly. Now, I never have to clear my throat, and I didn't even get spring allergies this year, and my skin is the best it has looked in years. I'm trying to keep 50% of my food intake as raw fruits and vegetables,  and I start out every morning with a huge glass of green juice or a green smoothie made with handfuls of spinach, chard, kale, collards or whatever I have on hand. The original study that was done on the veggies not helping with recurrence didn't say how the veggies were prepared. If they were mostly cooked or canned, then they probably wouldn't be as helpful, but I'm feeling for myself the energizing effect of eating so many raw greens every day. Granted, feeling good is no proof that cancer is being kept at bay, but I figure it's the best I can do!

DeAnn 

FEB

DeAnn

You really have me intriqued when you mentioned the post nasal drip. It has been driving me nuts for years, and I cannot get rid of it. How long did it take for you before it cleared up? I have not gotten into the juicing thing yet, but I am thinking about trying it, just did not lot like the idea of spending so much on another appliance that will clutter my countertops.

amberyba

Interesting about the fact on all milk products...I had been using organic milk, but I wonder if it has the IGF-1 in it as well, refined sugars stimulate our pancreas as well regarding insulin, thanks Sam for the info.

DeAnn, I smiled when I read about you feeling well...I fell short on eating healthy during radiation especially near the end...I didn't feel like juicing carrots or eating salads, but went for the easy processed food in the house, snacks the kids were eating...I have read and heard that the green drinks are the best! do you use organic, or how do you clean kale and spinach if it is not organic, does washing it do the trick. can you share your recipes, the veges and or fruit juices you make.

My favorite is just plain carrot juice, at first I used any carrot, but I thought I would try organic, so after I drank the 1st glass, I could tell immediately it tasted much cleaner and purer than the other carrots.

On another note, when I was diagnosed with BC, I started buying gallon size distilled water, to drink and to cook in...now when I have to drink from the tap I can taste the chlorine and chemicals...YUCK!

I don't even want my 2 teens and husband drinking the tap water...but when we go out to resturaunts the tea, water sodas and ?juices have water in them, probably municipal (city) water.

I even make my coffee (try to buy organic ground) with distilled water. I really like coffee and tea, now when I go out to eat...I try to think about the water....

and how the veges are prepared is probably an excellent point,

fresh juices seem to energize me more than anything..and they are raw and supposedly are readily absorbed for celllular needs.

"let us encourage one another!"

Amber

amberyba

Linda, you ticke me about the counter top...I have that problem as well...i have a space right near the sink, that my juicer has taken up residence for the last couple of months, it is a sight, I don't even care if someone comes over and sees there is another appliance there...I can clear other things off that are less conspicuous. and I feel your pain about the cost...as if there was not enough in the ecomomy to drain our pockets. I am using CoQ10 and it is a bit costly and the bottle only has a few more pills in it...but I feel it is a wonderful supplement and have seen it strengthen me and hopefully get more Oxygen to my cells.

but I can tell you, the juice is wonderful....carrot juice is my favorite and it is better than a chocolate bar to me. apple is good to...some juices are strong....I am curious about DeAnn's concoctions, I have never tasted Kale, but if it tastes good I will give it a try.

glad to see everyone's post to encourage good health and immunity! 

DGHoff

My favorite way to use kale (which is largely tasteless or slightly bitter on its own) is to make a green smoothie in my blender. If you use about 40% greens to 60% fruit, you can't even taste anything "green".

This morning, I had, four large kale leaves (strip them off the stem), four large romaine leaves, the juice of two oranges (I just squeezed it right into the blender, a kiwi fruit, an apple, and about 3/4 cup pineapple. Blend it all up and Yum!

I alternate smoothies with green lemonade that I make other mornings in my juicer. I have an Omega 8000 juicer that does cirtrus, greens, whatever. I juice a cucumber, a bunch of romaine, a lemon, two apples, and about a half inch piece of ginger. Very refreshing!

In answer to the question about the drippy nose. I can't say exactly how long it took, but I really started doing this in earnest in about March. So, it really didn't take long for me to see results. I think the biggest key to the non drippy nose was cutting out dairy and wheat. When I do eat it (ie, I just had some whole wheat pasta with pesto the other day) I get all mucusy in my throat again, so I know that is what affects me.

DeAnn  

DGHoff

Oh, I forgot to respond to the other question. I do buy organic whenever possible.

DeAnn

SueYA

Since my dx five weeks ago, I started the Gerson diet regime - well, partially: 1 glass of OJ juice, three glasses of green juices,  five  glasses of apple-carrot juice, and three glasses of carrot juice.  Yes, lots of juices.... and I am constantly drinking and visiting the restroom .  According to Gerson therapy, drinking juices is one part of the liver detox process. 

While no one knows if this diet would really help preventing bc coming back, but one obvious benefit that I am clearly enjoying is that I am free of sinus headaches and migraines. I used to have two or three bouts of migraines every two weeks and frequent sinus headaches, each lasting 12 hours or more. 

Since Gerson regime is quite labor time intensive, I may not be able to maintain it fully, but will do a lighter version and add some non-plant protein (likely salmon).  This is especially in light of the article /research that Native pointed out.

The Gerson Green Juice ---

Of the various kinds of leaves mentioned below, procure as many as possible (no others):

Romain Lettuce, Swiss chard, Beet tops (young inner leaves), Watercress, Some red cabbage, Green Papper (1/4 of small one), Endive, Escarole.  Add one medium green apple.

Note: Everything organic.

AlaskaAngel

Interesting results regarding prostate cancer study:

http://www.asco.org/ASCO/News/Cancer+News?&reuterview=detail_view&reutersid=10797

amberyba

Sue,

it is wonderful you are doing so well and so strong after 5 weeks of diagnosis. I really admire you, I do do a carrot juice with organic carrots...sometimes I have added an apple, I have tried some other veges, but haven't been able to enjoy I guess is the word and it is like taking cough syrup sometimes, but  maybe my tastebuds have changed since I tried those so many years ago. I have had a juicer for many years and went through a period where it satyed in the cab. and I didn't take the time to juice...but I have taken more steps to eat better since cancer hit.

I sent you an email if you click "my HOme" and check your inbox you can read it. I noticed you had posted about Tamox... and that our diagnosis are similar...so I thought we could share stories.

Alaska angel I'll check out the study.

Thanks,

Amber

lilgrace

I rarely eat out, do my own cooking, and eat very healthy.  exercise every day - My grandmother passed away from BC and so did my aunt.   My mother has had some scares, but all the cysts were benign so far.  She isn't through menopause yet.

I'm 25 - I am thinking it is a genetic problem with me.  I plan to adopt when I want children, I think it is the best way to prevent it from passing on.  But I don't think anyone can really tell what is the total combination of reasons why we have cancer.   Taking care of myself has been my main priority.    I'd say eating healthy is always a good way to go - it makes you feel good if you have the right energy for your body... and I do gentle yoga and walks now to keep up a good exercise routine.

DGHoff

The more I look at that JAMA study about high fruit and veggie intake not making a difference, I realized that I'm misreading it quite a bit.  At first glance, it seems to suggest that eating a lot of produce won't help, but that isn't really what it says at all.  It is comparing a super high produce diet, with the standard  USDA recommended good diet of 5 servings per day.  It's really just saying that there isn't much difference in overall benefit to going overboard with produce. If you compared even the "recommended healthy diet" from the USDA guidelines to what most Americans actually do eat, I suspect you'd see a huge difference.  So, if you compare a "pretty healthy" diet with a "super healthy" diet, you probably wouldn't see much of a difference.  If you look at the end results, the recurrance rate was 17% for both groups, but if you looked at people who didn't make any dietary changes, I wonder what the recurrance rate is?

Just food for thought!

DeAnn 

LumiPojo

Right on, DeAnn - all it says is that it doesn't bring any additional benefit if you go overboard.

SueYA

There are a couple of posts here mentioning about BC rate being quite low for Chinese.  Well, that's the case when Chinese live Chinese lifestyle (or diet).  I am a Chinese, immigrated to the U. S. twenty years ago.  Unlike many first generation Chinese American in the U. S. I adopted western lifestyle readily, especially diet.  I eat a bottle plus a cup yogurt (organic) daily - it's convenient and nutritious.  I eat cheese too.  My Chinse guests, when coming to my parties, never eat Cheese on the appetizer plate.

Like many of you, I have been pondering on the cause. Yes,  I agree that the immune system may be weak and the gene may not be strong in resisting such BC onset.  But why then no one in my family has BC or any femal organ disease, and so few fellow Chinese get it.  What I have done or not done that is so different?  I have done lots of searching, comparing my life then (in China) and life now (in US).  I am so convenced that, after reading Jane Plan't book "Your Life in Your Hands," that dairy (hormone-laden even for organic) is the fundamental trigger/cause for me.  She cited a study that found that in Japan, BC rate is much lower than in the US. However, for Japanese women living in the US, their BC rate comes to that of the standard US rate.  Note that in both Japan and Chinese diet, beef and dairy are not part of.

My two cents.

Sue.

joanne_elizabeth

Sue,

Sorry to hear about your breast cancer.  They recently published an article comparing traditional Chinese diet to americanized and decided the "meats and sweets" diet of america was correlated with high cancer rates. I don't recall that they implicated dairy as such, but definitely high intakes of meat (hormones again?) and sweets.

I usually just eat organic yogurt, no cow's milk, but I do eat ice cream at times.  

Joanne 

aliveandhopeful

Amber,

I am dealing with metastatic bc now, after 12 years' remission. I always felt I had a "good" diet (occasional sweets, red meat maybe twice a month). However, this time, I am doing an integrative treatement (hormone therapy and naturopathic and diet). My naturopath put me on the low-glycemic diet to keep blood sugar levels balanced in my body, because research has shown that cancer cells feed on glucose. I have found sufficient evidence that this is indeed the case. If you'd like links to these articles, let me know.

To find out more about the glycemic index, go to www.glycemicindex.com

Another website I found very helpful in figuring out diet and cancer is Diana Dyer's site (a 3-time cancer survivor and dietitian): www.cancerrd.com

Best wishes for health and healing

Karin

Initial Dx 04/07/1996 Grade III, 8/9 nodes ER+/PR+ 

Recent Dx 01/04/2008, metastatic bc (liver), ER+PR-, HER2-

amberyba

Karin, thanks for sharing, I hate you are going through BC mets, I will be praying for you, I have read some of Diana Dyer's site and have read about the sugar connection and how important the pancreas is regarding cancer,

I am curious did you take tamoxifen after your initial dx with ER+? How did you find about your recurrence, was it also found in your breast or just mets to your liver? and your integrative therapy as far as the hormone and naturopathic what does this consist of?

I finished rads 3 weeks ago...and the onc. just called in the tamoxifen RX yesterday, I will pick it up MOnday.

I am so tired tonight, it is the 4th of July, I need to hop back on the proper diet train...hope to hear from you soon,

God Bless,

Amber

cp418

I do know someone who was a vegetarian her whole life, no family hx of bc and had 2 children and breast fed them but still developed bc.  She attributed it to environmental factors and feels getting it is a crap shoot.  She still believes in healthy eating and exercise.

sahalie

I've changed my eating habits and where I purchase my foods drastically since bc. 

I buy and raise all organic foods to eat. I drink a ton of water and stay away from too much milk.

But I still have to have my cheesie fishie crackers now and then.

I eat a banana every day plus other fruits and plenty of green veggies.

I think of the athletes that eat so well and still get cancer.

I too believe it's environmental, stress and our immune systems.

I also had a really bad fall on my breasts about six months before

I found the lump and will always wonder if that had something to do with it.   

Blundin2005

I don't know if there is a scientific study statistically possible to correlate disease over the centuries relative to life style, technology (or lack of it), retained (or lost) knowledge, cell mutations, agricultural vs industrialized society, etc., etc.  I'll be we all know people who puzzle over this philosophical discussion from time to time.  My thoughts lean more towards what de ann said above...the Zone Diet was written from this perspective...five times per day of a proportion of essential nutrients. 

Over the almost three years since I've visited these boards, we discussed varied permeations of this question--essentially "what if".  

I've come to accept now that food is important and that what we put into our bodies (including the brain) can assist us to sustain a quality of life with grace and dignity.  But it goes without saying that food alone is not in and of itself the "only answer".  

There are so many factors beyond our control.  Food is within our control to the extent that we can access good sources and make good choices.  

I think it is important to think in moderation always IMHO....as so many of us here before came to admit, getting BC is a crap shoot.....but to eat wisely helps load the dice more in our favor.

I recently came by this web site ....  http://www.farmtocity.com/ 

I wish I could post the article that linked to this...but essentially students at the Wharton Business School realized that people shopped at these locations not primarily because of health benefits, but because they were close to home.  I thought, wouldn't it be an interesting turn of events if the farmer's markets again became the new convenience stores? 

As evidenced by the now highly publized difficulty of our human condition unable to choose sustainability of life over economic short term returns....health seems to be a casual side effect to this energy crisis that we've created over the decades.  But I'm slipping onto a soap box here....enough said.

"Never run faster than your guardian angel can fly"

spencerlarz

hey there,

hi all!!!!!

this is my first post!!  (finally)

I have always eaten fairly well before dx, I now eat even better, i only drink RED wine  now though and eat DARK chocolate(antioxidents!!) i drink green tea instead of coffee, do alot of exercise at the gym, and always drink lemon water ,about2 litres a day. i think vegetarian diet is better for us.although i have heard of veges also developing bc.

i dont know about you guys but i still cant believe what has happened to me, when i think about it sometimes, its like im hearing it for the first time all over again,and i go into a bit of a panic...

amberyba

I talked with my oncologist Thursday about natural supplements and taking tamoxifen, He mainly said he adviced no soy....when I asked about flaxseed, he said no problem there, that it was an omega 3, from the things I have read flaxseed muffins helped excrete estrogens in the urine

http://www.webmd.com/news/20001208/muffin-day-for-breast-cancer

so I put ground flaxseed in my oatmeal, I also try to take flaxseed oil capsules with coQ10 capsules especially when I don't eat the groud flaxseed with the oatmeal.

spencerlarz, I understand how you feel, I get anxious whenever there is a physical ailment in my household, for anyone that is close to me getting sick or having cancer, an uneasy feeling nags at my heart. I remember telling my husband in the first couple of months post dx and treatment that I felt like I had a disease like High blood pressure for example, that I'd have to treat, (with meds, diet, exercise etc), I think that has helped me deal with having cancer somewhat, even though each disorder and disease are different. \

and that green tea is becoming a wonderful addition to bc survivors. my sister in 9 years remission added it to her diet this year, she has changed her diet some and adds supplements too, cuts back on chicken and meats, takes flaxseed oil, CoQ10, vit E, multi vit, and I think vit A, and she now jogs routinely.

FEB

Sahalie I wonder too about breast injury. Maybe an injury to a duct could set up an environment for  cancer cells. It seems too coinceindental to me that my lump was in the exact same area where I would get breast infections, when I was breast feeding.

I do believe that stress on a certain area of out bodies leaves that area more hospitable to cancer cells. It explains why Lance Armstrong's cancer was in an area aggrevated by so much time on a bike. I also think about my nephew, who had a brain tumor. Fortunately it was benign, but the surgery was horrible. He has always been a deep thinker and obsessive about getting straight A's. Maybe his brain was overstressed.

lj, I have instituted the same things that you have, dark chocalate, green tea, more fruits and veggies, exercise. I do not even worry anymore that the cancer will come back. Even though we can't get rid of all the free radicals out there, we can make our bodies strong enough to fight them off. Our bodies have an amazing way of cleaning itself out. We just need to do all we can to not make it have to work so hard that it goes into distress and overload and can't get rid of all the gunk. I think the good things that I was doing kept my cancer from spreading, but I was not doing enough to keep it from occuring. Yes, I do blame myself for the cancer, but I am not beating myself up over it. I have just accepted that I was lazy and took my health for granted, and  now I have it within me to change. I can see how a lot of things were stressing my mind and body and caused an overload, and I have learned from my mistakes. It is not rocket science. It is not a crap shoot as far as I am concerned. Healthy cells do not become cancerous. They need triggers. We know enough of these triggers. We just need to take away the ammo.

I still say no to flax. Like soy, there are too many arguments on both sides and since there is no consenses, I will just avoid it until there is more proof that it is beneficial. The omega 3's in olive oil are just as good.