the Doctor is Wrong... Dead Wrong..

Methusala

the Doctor is Wrong... Dead Wrong..

Methusala

Hi ladies,

I didn't know where else to post this.  But, it needs to be posted..  this doctor needs to be addressed!  He needs an education in Breast cancer.

Let me begin..

Last Monday, I had my daughter in the ER, she was dehydrated from the flu.

The doctor was doing an inventory of family health, and made a reference to me and cancer.  I'm guessing my little blue chemo cap was a dead give-away.  He said to me "Breast cancer?" I said "Good guess".

THEN.. this great philosopher turns to my 16 year old daughter and says..

ready ladies?

"You're lucky, !! Breast cancer is a generational disease.. you'll never have to worry about it, but your children will."

Once I picked myself up off the floor, I was still too stunned to grasp what this man was saying!  I am still floored.  I have spent the past 9 months of my wretched life trying to educate myself and my daughter on breast cancer.  Only to have, this educated professional, tell my daughter something, that is completely FALSE!  

I sais to my daughter, after the dr. left, that the dr. was TOTALLY WRONG.  so.. moving to Thursday, I asked Dr. Levine at Roswell Park, is breast cancer a generational disease?  He replied, UNequivically NO.  He further stated the ER dr. is 100% WRONG.

Now, part of me says, Let it go, but that OTHER part of me says,

CALL THE HOSPITAL administration... and tell them what the dr. said.  I am going to call, on Monday.  They are going to address this issue.  They are not going to sugar coat this dr. to me.  I have his name, too.  I'm not out to 'bash' this man, but I AM out to discredit is thinking on breast cancer.  I am out to right this wrong.  Can anyone besides me grasp the implications of this dr. giving out bad info. on cancer?? yikes!

My father died of throat cancer, his sister died of breast cancer, and his brother died of bone cancer.  This brother, my uncle had 5 kids. 3 of them died of cancer, one of these three was breast cancer (lung for the other two) and of the only surviving 5, is my cousin who has breast cancer.  I lost a sister at age 38 to breast cancer. (I'm 38 now.)  

On behalf of my 'sisters' before me, and those to follow me, I must call the hospital and make sure this dr. never makes a statement like this to anyone-anywhere.  I will add, too, that at Roswell Park, I have met 4 different people (in the past 9 months) that all had metastatic disease.  All of them had their original mammograms misread in Olean.  That scares me.

 Well, again, I'm not a one woman lynch mob.  I just feel I need to right this wrong.  I cannot have my daughter growing up, with my family history, thinking she's immune and 'safe'.  I don't want to scare her, but I want her to make good decisions for her health in her life.

thanks for letting me rant. 

badboob67

I absolutely think it would be a GOOD thing for you to notify the hospital that this doctor is misinforming patients about something as critical as the risk for bc. Who knows what else he might be saying? 

Maybe you could get in touch with the ACS and ask them for some information and pamphlets that could be shared with the doctor in question and also placed in an area for patients to be educated.

It is surely not your goal to "lynch" this guy, but it IS a golden opportunity to help share your knowledge. You never know who you might be able to touch if you are able to get some ACS information (and breastcancer.org has info too!) to someone. Turn that anger into something POSITIVE!!

((((HUGS))))
Diane

celia088

i absolutely think you SHOULD notify those in charge and perhaps also speak to the Patient Liason person also.  This doctor is informing people with erroneous information which could have a very unfortunate outcome for someone who believes this doctor is an authority figure. This doctor needs some refresher education for sure. 

BethNY

I think you should absolutely make the call, but the goal should be to make sure this Doc learns the facts, rather then get reprimanded (sp).

I am surprised you were able to keep hush during your daughters appt.

So many daughters need to know that they are at risk 10 years prior to the age at which their mom was dx.

It's not to say that every daughter will get breast cancer, but this doctor must have slept through that part of med school.

I hope you call, or better yet, write the doctor directly.  I would write a letter, and send him some educational material, so that he does not make the same mistake twice.

roseg

Send it in writing - to the supervisor.

Just because somebody has MD after their name doesn't mean they should run off at the mouth about stuff they obviously know nothing about. 

djd

I encountered similar ignorance when I made a visit to the ER for a minor dog bite.

When the doctor came in to administer the Tetanus shot, I told him "no shots on the BC side".  His reply?  "It's a MYTH that shots will lead to LE!"

I responded with, "tell that to the thousands of women who suffer from LE!".

My experience with ER doctors has been sub-par, to say the least.  It has taught me to only go to the ER if I have a severe trauma or dire situation.  Anything else, I want my physician to admit me under his/her care.

HeatherBLocklear

Oh boy, this is one of those situations that push my angry buttons. My daughters had a similar experience a few days ago -- they asked their PCP if he'd prescribe the BRCA test for them due to my diagnosis of triple negative medullary BC (family physicians have the discretion to do this in Europe), and he refused on the grounds that "BC always skips a generation"!!!

Yes, this should be reported. Best of luck -- hospitals are very protective of their physicians and other personnel.

Annie

LisaSDCA

I certainly agree that you have very good cause to complain about that MD's inappropriate and ignorant comment. What a scumbag. With your family history, your daughter needs to be especially vigilant.

Not meaning to be intrusive, but I notice you are trip. neg. in addition to that history. Have you had genetic testing for BRCA? The early diagnosis in both you and your sister and the heavy prevalence on your father's side is highly suspect, IMHO. My BRCA-1 came down my father's side.

Lisa

Methusala

Thanks so much ladies.  Yes, I've been tested, still waiting results.

I honestly do not want to lynch this man, but I need him to know he's wrong.  I just am totally amazed at the misinformation!!! WOW! to me, this is a BIGGIE ,not just a sliver in the toe kinda thing.  I will call the hospital administration on Monday.  I figure their choice is talk to the dr. and correct him, or I start a massive letter writing campaign.

) 

althea

I encourage you to say something.  I should take my own advice, really.  Four years ago this month a surgeon told me I had 'aging  breast tissue' where an entire quadrant of my breast was hardening and my nipple was starting to invert.  Little did I know at that time there was more than one kind of breast cancer.  Guess that doctor didn't know either.  By the time I was dx'd with lobular and spent just five minutes reading up on it, I was floored that I had not been dx'd nine months sooner. 

Initially, I was very angry with that doctor for his ineptitude.  Luckily, I had a slow growing tumor and miraculously was only a stage 2 with nothing spread into my nodes.  And I waver back and forth on how I feel about this.  There is SO much information doctors are expected to know, so part of me wants to cut them some slack.  On the other hand, it's their JOB to know enough to diagnose diseases, and truly, there's no excuse that this bozo didn't seem to have even a 5-minute exposure to the fact that bc comes in other forms than ductile.  Part of me wants to send a nasty letter to him with a cc to his facility's administrator.  Another part of me knows that if I rant and rave and act ugly, it's really more of a bad reflection on me than anything, so I talk myself out of it.  Then I think, well, this bozo really needs some more education about bc, and I contemplate a kinder gentler letter.  Then I feel tired and four years later no letter has been written.  

The letter issue gets on my radar every now and then.  I wonder if I'd just write the stupid thing, maybe I'd could finally let it go.  Perhaps you could write a letter to your bozo and then let me know if you feel better afterwards.   Where do these people come up with this bogus information?  My mom and her mom also had bc.  So much for it skipping generations.  Don't I wish. 

abbadoodles

It may be an overreaction, but consider writing a calm but clear letter about your concerns about this man's competence as a teacher (a big part of his role) addressed to 1. Chief of medical staff, 2. Hospital administrator, 3. Head of nursing staff, 4. Chairman of the Board of Directors.  Maybe I've missed something.  But, if you write to the COS, and copy the others, they all know that the other has been put on notice and they may be less willing to ignore the problem.

Tina

Jorf

OMG, I'm sorry that this guy spoke out of turn and was inaccurate but this is crazy. This is lynching. How about dealing with this doctor as the human being that he is? Do you really think that going to his supervisor and everyone else involved in this poor man's professional life is the right way to deal with this? How about speaking to the person himself? Or, if you're too angry to do that, how about writing him a letter with some references to good medical journals (your Dr. Levine ought to be able to send you a couple of quick links)?

Doctors are not gods. Haven't we figured that out yet? There is no reason that he should know everything and this seems to be an "urban legend" as a later poster noted that others believe it too. Should he have been even addressing it with you when you were there to treat dehydration? No. Does he need "an education in breast cancer" (as you accurately put it)? Yes. You are in a position to do that in a humane manner.

Is this how you want to teach your daughter to deal with problems with other people? Run to their supervisor? Do her best to humiliate them in front of their peers?

How would you like someone to treat you in that type of situation? 

Please think about this before you pick up the phone tomorrow morning.  

otter

I would go with what abbadoodles says, and I would include all those people.

What that doctor told your daughter is a very, very old theory about BC.  My 80+ year-old mom told me the same thing the other day.  Since her mom had BC, but she did not develop it, she's been so afraid I would get it... 'cause it skips generations.  And now I have it--so she's right, right???

It's not surprising to see that degree of misunderstanding among the general public.  It's a whole different thing to see it perpetuated by the medical profession.  I'm pretty sure my mom heard the myth from her old-time family physician, a millenium ago.

It's ironic that, in some cases, prostate cancer does "skip generations."  One pattern of genetic susceptibility to prostate cancer is X-linked.  So, brothers will have it, but their father did not--because the brothers inherited the "bad" gene through their mother.

Not so with BC, AFAIK.

otter 

sccruiser

I agree. Put it in writing! And send to the CEO of the institution. It needs to go to this doc's supervisor and on up the chain. I would even cc the doc to get a copy. He needs a wake up call.



Nothing worse than a medical professional telling us the wrong info.



I went for a TB test the other day at the local hospital (where I intend to volunteer). Nurse asked, "first test?" I said yes, and she said "left arm, please." I noticed she was alternating left/right arm with different people. I asked if there was any significance of left or right. She said, "you need two tests, so we always use the left arm for the first and right arm for the second." I told her I had LE in my right arm and would appreciate her using my left arm for both tests. She said, "Oh if you insist. But it's really nothing more putting a small bubble of fluid under the top of the skin. You shouldn't have any trouble at all with that." NOT!!



I told her I would be back again to use the left arm for the second test, and departed.



Was going to let it go, and thought about it, deciding that I needed to say something to someone.



Given that our local hosp has one of the best LE clinics in the state of California, I emailed the LE therapist and told her my story. I decided I didn't want to expect her to solve the problem, and decided to help her solve the problem. I offered to speak at a nurses' training meeting about my experience with LE, in the hopes that we can begin to educated more of the medical profession than we have been able to do to date.



This after running a contribution campaign for our Lymphedema Patient Fund where literature went out to every employee. guess some don't read as well as others.



You go, girl!!!

grace

Fitztwins

two words..

f'ing idiot.

Methusala

Jorf- while I appreciate your direct approach, the hospital is ultimately responsible for its employees.  As a medical dr. it is his own repsonsibilty to give correct and proper medical information.  It is because of drs. like him, that some many cancers are missed until it's too late.  I did not lynch him.  That was exactly what I am trying to avoid.  I DID talk to the hospital administration who put me through to patient services.  They said they would contact the dr. and have him contact me in writing in 2-3 weeks.  I am pleased with this.  No further action on my part, and they will address the dr.

I WILL be my own advocate and I WILL be my children's advocate.  I have a voice and I intend to use it. 

Member_of_the_Club

Jorf, i think the real problem here is that the doctor passed on this crazy misinformation to a 16 year old girl. This could be a dangerous thing and he was way out of line. I don't think it is a lynching to have the doctor retract and apologize for what he said. Methusala can show the letter to her daughter, who will now have a counter-weight against the misinformation she received.



Plus, I would have doubts about this doctor's competence. the hospital should know and keep a record of his lapses in judgment.

otter

malfeasance

malpractice

negligence

liability

This is not a case of someone putting on the wrong windshield wipers, or forgetting to replace a radiator hose.  It especially isn't a case of a "poor man" who "spoke out of turn."

This was a physician--a medical professional--giving medical advice to his patient.  And that advice was wrong...dead wrong.

No, doctors are not gods (though some of them act like they are); and doctors do not know everything (though some of them act like they do).  It isn't a coincidence that doctors who act as if they do know everything are often called upon to defend themselves in courtrooms.  I HATE lawyers, but at least when they screw up, it usually doesn't cost someone her life.

I worked in a health professions career for 25+ years.  I always knew that if I messed up--if I gave a client dead-wrong advice, or told him/her something that resulted in a risk to his/her health--the very least that would happen would be a closed-door talk with my department head or dean.  So, yes, I fully expected irate or dissatisfied clients to report their concerns to my supervisor(s).  That's how the system works.

We are not in kindergarten anymore.  People--including doctors--are responsible for their actions and their words.

otter

althea

I'm glad you spoke up methusala.  If no one complains, nothing would ever get better.  The dr who spouted the wrong information needs to be made aware of his error, and so do his higher ups. 

Now I'll be curious what your response will be.  I had a bit of a run in with my internist last month over thyroid issues.  My TSH was 6.4.  I thought I'd get a scrip for meds and finally start feeling better, only to be put off for a month to run the test again.  All they focused on was cholesterol and for me to exercise more and follow a lowfat diet.  During that month, I put myself through a learning curve on thyroid issues and learned the 'normal' range was redefined in 2002 to a narrower range, making my 6.4 even further out of range. 

All my medical professionals are going by the old numbers.  The information about the 'new normal' came from the association of endocrinologists.  When I tried to share it with my internist office, they didn't seem to know about the new standards and didn't want to know.  

Doctors are definitely not gods.  I've met some who seem to be unaware of this.  It is my impression that politely bringing new information to the attention of professionals is ineffective.  Please let us know what response you get methusala.  I'd like to hope that you'll succeed in shining a light to make the darkness diminish, but I'm not holding my breath.  

celia088

I have had my own medical doctors tell me that they do not have time to look thru or read my file when i come for an appt.   I have had other doctors say to me when i brought them in a medical article to read (pertinent to my situation), that they do not read med. journals or articles because they do not have time.  Maybe these are the doctors who are giving out misinformation.  I think they are accountable, as much as possible, for the medical advice that they give out to people, and if they do not keep current with medical research, they are probably not well-informed.  In this case i think that doctor gave out some dangerous advice to that 16 year old daughter.  It is not our jobs to gently educate these highly paid doctors or medical professionals. They are often very egotistical, arrogant, and unwilling to accept that they could be wrong, especially from a mere patient.  I think it should be dealt with on a higher level.

I applaud the actions that Methusala took.

Pharmmom

Put it in writing.  They have a true quack on their hands.  I would be furious too.  I have twin 16 year old girls and I could only imagine how upset they would be.  What an a******!  What are people thinking???????????????????????????

deborye

WOW, that is what my mom's doctor said to her, he said her type of  breast cancer was not hereditary, WRONG!!! She was dx at 58 yrs old with IDC, lost her 12 yrs ago.  Boy do I miss her.  I'm 56.

  

  

Little-G

My second post..for some reason the one I just typed up didn't go thru.  Maybe to much anger?? :-)  I am with almost everyone on this board!!!!  There is NO way you are over reacting!  What a bunch of bullshit!  Hhmm..maybe he can explain to my daughter why I have BC and so does my mom??  My daughter is 16 and I have been telling her that she's going to need to be vigilant with her health and make sure she gets in and starts getting tested early.  I can't imagine that a so called "doctor" comes in and just steps on everything I've been telling her!!  I am fed up with most of the medical community.  The majority are rude, hourly workers that could give a crap about anything else other than when their shift is up.  Someone posted one of Shepgirls old posts of when she was in the hospital in a shared room, and the abuse her roommate was going thru.  It was really sad.  Shepgirl stepped up.  Its what we ALL need to do!!  Enough of this "sheep" mentality!!  In all areas of life.  This is it people..we're not here to be led around by the nose.  Make some noise!!!!

OK..you know where to go if you're thinking of starting a rally.  :-)  But really, my DH was kicked out of the hospital several times for stating things in the open that were going on.  In all cases..he was correct.  And the hospital was embarrassed..or just didn't want the rest of the people to hear. 

Don't rest on this one Methusala...its wrong. 

g

Methusala

April 4th, and still no word from the dr. in writing..

will wait a bit longer.  I did fill out a patient satisfaction form they sent me.  I outlined the situation on that form.

One problem with our local ER, is that they do NOT have their own drs.  They  hire groups that do rotations.  A dr. might be there 3 weeks or 3 months, depending on when their rotation is up.  It's really a nightmare ER.  It used to be first rate, but not any more.  It's totally gone down hill.   Sad, really. 

celia088

Methusala, 

I think that there should be a patient liason person in the hospital who can handle problems like this, especially with a staff of doctors who rotate constantly. Otherwise, all kinds of problems would go unnoticed and not be handled.  I agree with NOT lynching the doc, but i do think he needs to not continue to give out incorrect info about stuff he is not up-to-date on.  Perhaps send a follow-up letter...?

Methusala

Just realized, I never heard back from the hospital or the dr.

Very sad, eh? 

otter

I think a follow-up phone call is in order.  Let us know what they say.  Insist that they tell you exactly what measures they took to "re-educate" the doctor, so he would not continue to spread such misinformation.

otter 

swimangel72

While I totally agree with your approach Methusala - if I had been sitting there when the doctor spoke - I would have started arguing with him right then and there - and THEN I would have told him, right then and there, to let me speak to another doctor to set him straight!  I have serious doubts that anyone is going to re-educate this doctor.....and I agree that you'll have to follow-up - not just with a phone call, but something in writing - copying all the big-wigs at that hospital!