role of alcohol in breast cancer development and recurrence

koshka1

i went out last night w/ a couple of friends and started out the evening thinking i am not going to have a drink....made a decision to cut back even tho i really don't drink that much, or even need it to have a good time...I just really like that glass of wine,,,it is like a cup of good coffee for me....

anyway,,,i got so down and depressed while sitting there with them...i guess kinda thinking why is it me that has to go thru this....

i have paid such a huge price and i really want my life to go back to normal....

so i had my 2 glasses of wine with my organic salad and grilled salmon and enjoyed the evening with my friends....

this breast cancer sucks...!! 

koshk.....

abbadoodles

Oh, ladies, we keep looking to pin the tail on the cause of bc.  It's so sad that no one has actually solved this problem.  There are so many throries and "associations" it makes your head spin.  The one I particularly love is too much light at night!  That was last week, wasn't it?  Now, everyone will be yanking their night lights out of the wall.

By all means, if you feel you are drinking too much, try to quit or seek help.  Alcohol is definitely a poison for many body systems under the right circumstances. 

I do drink some, and have since I was a teenager.  So, I got bc.  Because of that?  I cannot answer that.  I do know that I was constantly exposed to many chemical toxins in my career as a laboratory chemist.  I have eaten poisoned (hormone and pesticide injected) meat and dairy all my life.  I have also eaten margarine, had mammograms and other x-rays, been under stress several times in my life, stayed out of the sun (so little Vit D), and on and on ad nauseum.  Did I do everything wrong?  No one gave me a blueprint of how to live without incurring cancer.  I just did what everyone else did.  And, did they all get bc?  No.

My two best friends from high school, with whom I was still in touch all these years later, died of bc a couple of years ago at the age of 58 or 59 and neither of them drank. 

Tina

LizM

Allison, I like you drank before my diagnosis and stopped drinking the day I was diagnosed.  My bc was ER/PR positive and I have read the articles linking alcohol consumption with ER/PR pos bc.  I now drink green tea when I feel like having a glass of wine.  I am now 2 1/2 years from diagnosis and do now have an occasional small (4 oz) glass of wine on special occasions but that is it. 

Beesie

Madalyn, I agree with you.  There are so many theories out there about what causes BC but the fact is, with the exception of those who have the BRCA genetic mutation, none of us know what caused our BC.  

It appears that there are thousands of environmental factors that might cause BC.  I doubt that any one of them acts alone.  I suspect that first, our bodies must have some propensity to create the cancer.  Then, there is some trigger that activates the cancer.  Maybe it's stress. Maybe it's alcohol.  More likely, it's that 'just wrong' combination of a bunch of different factors accumulated over our lifetimes, some from within our bodies and some environmental. And I suspect that for each of us, the triggers are probably something different - we each have a unique combination of factors that cause our BC to activate and grow. 

I don't know what caused my BC so I don't deprive myself of something I like because it might be one of those many triggering factors.  I'd rather live and enjoy my life and take my chances.  Of course, I try to keep a eat healthily (and avoid inhaling pollutants, etc.) , but that's for my overall health, not just to prevent BC. 

I hate the blame game.  And I think it's a shame when anyone spends too much time trying to figure out what caused their BC.  To me, it seems like they are putting the blame on themselves.  The fact is that this is something that we're not likely to ever know (except for those who have a genetic BC), unless medical science progresses a whole lot over the next number of years.  And it's something that we probably can't in any way control.  Cutting out one triggering factor, if you happen to pick the right one that actually affects you, is just one factor.  Chances are that there are others that you don't even know about and can in no way control.    

Lolita

Hi Beesie,

How do you avoid inhaling pollutants? I drive an hour each day to and from work in a horribly polluted metro area, and I wonder about this.



I agree with your sentiments about the blame game. That being said, I blame my cancer on my profound sadness at the death of my first husband. The cancer was right over my heart. After 12 years of mourning, the diagnosis caused me to snap back to living. The rest of it: an occasional drink, the soy sauce in my Chinese food that I enjoy once a month, the deodorant, its not worth ruling your life out of fear.

Beesie

Lolita,

Good question.  And you're right - for the most part we can't avoid most pollutants.  That's really the main point in my earlier post; there are so many things out there that might trigger our breast cancer cells to activate and for the most part we can't control our exposure to those elements.  So eliminating one thing - alcohol, for example - might make someone feel good that they are doing something proactive, but as far as their body's biology goes, it might not be a relevant or significant factor.

As for the pollutants, where I do have control, I do try to avoid them. I try to stick to more natural products - cleaning with baking soda, for example.  As much as it's nice to drive with the windows down or the sunroof open on a nice day, if unless I'm on an open road, I don't (although I honestly don't know if the air conditioning is much better).  Still, as you said, overall there's not much we can do.

I agree with you about stress possibly being a big factor.  I don't think that stress actually causes cancer, but if you have cancer cells in your body, I do think that stress can cause them to activate.  My MIL was diagnosed with cancer shortly after her son (my SO) died suddenly. I was diagosed with BC after a number of years of stress piling on, first with the death of my SO, then the death of my MIL, then an incredibly stressful job working for the boss from hell (okay, in truth I really blame her).  If only I'd been drinking more wine in those days, I might have been more relaxed and maybe I wouldn't have gotten BC! 

Here's a link to the recent study that suggests that there might be a biological link between stress and the development of BC:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/03/080308103341.htm

This research suggests that stress might actually disrupt the activity level of the BRCA1 gene, which normally works to suppress cancer development. Obviously this is a very small, early stage study.  It will be interesting to see whether any other research groups pick up on this and study it further.

paige-allyson

Hopefully no one here feels blamed for their breast cancer as a result of the statistical relationship between alcohol and breast cancer. From a stats point of view we cannot look at individual outcomes as a way of judging whether a particular health behavior or treatment plan (chemo, rads, etc.) is helpful/harmful- it just doesn't work this way. To read a more detailed commentary by me on statistics please see my post on metastatic group thread- "informal poll re: recurrences."

Although it is quite likely (statistically speaking) that my alcohol consumption contributed to the development of my breast cancer, it certainly would not be helpful to blame myself for it...and so I don't. Being aware of the risks associated with alcohol consumption, especially excess consumption, has allowed me to make an informed choice to abstain from alcohol going forward. I think it would be very unfortunate to discourage women from considering accurate and responsibly gathered information regarding the risks of drinking out of fears that presenting such information will make women who drank and got bc "feel guilty." The discussion of this information is, in my view, no more of a "blame game" than is the printed info on the side of cigarette packs saying "this product is associated with increased risk of ......" Should we suspend the provision of information regarding the health risks of smoking because my grandmother smoked 2 packs a day from age 25 to age 75 and died at the age of 93 from causes unrelated to tobacco; or because a person ill and dying from lung cancer who smoked might feel blamed for their disease; or because my husband's mother and cousin, both non-smokers died of lung cancer? I think not.

Hanna60978

I also agree prolonged periods of stress do activate something or deactivate something that renders us more vulnerable to a bc cell getting a foothold.  I don't know if stress affects our hormonal balance tipping it in favor of bc development, or the general immune system - white blood cells, etc. - weakening, or stress opening the door to a gene mutation effect.  The liver must process alcohol along with many other things we take in deliberately or inadvertantly. I don't think small amounts of alcohol are always a culprit. There are women who never drink alcohol who get bc and women who drink all the time that don't.   Depression, death of a loved one, loss of a job, moving, major life changes have all been said to contribute to development of disease too. 

I agree limiting exposure to toxins is valuable, trying to reduce estrogen in the body especially by reducing internal abdominal fat through healthy diet and exercise, drinking and cooking with filtered water, and trying to avoid stress as much as possible are helpful.   If depressed, try to watch whatever type of television is funny for you, or do the same with reading.  Laughter and exercise help increase endorphins. Adopting a gentle diet that avoids a lot of meat and focuses on veggies.  Surrounding yourself with people who elevate your mood rather than depress it or cause you to feel angry or self-protective.  If faced with irritable people, breathe deeply and try to extricate yourself from them.  Look around you and you can see how your mood is doing if your living space is orderly or disheveled.  The state of your personal living space is a reflection of your internal mood and mental health status.   Sometimes, we can improve our moods and elevate ourselves from depression inversely by deliberately rearranging our living space and making it orderly.  Adding sounds to your environment that pleasure you like moving water, wind chimes, soft music that doesn't startle you - preferably not in a minor key unless you are feeling that way, then move to music in a major key.   These help elevate the mind to a more peaceful place.  Alcohol in moderation? - I don't know.  I believe people often seek alcohol to assist in relaxation.  Once it has done that without overdoing, I think that is the time to stop and switch to another beverage.  We cannot control all things that come our way, but our minds and bodies are connected so helping free the mind from stress should surely assist the body toward better health.       

Believer0711

I know it doesn't really help to do the blame game, but for me, I feel it is normal/expected to blame everything I did (or didn't) in my past. Stress, alcohol, overindulgence, high cholesterol, high blood sugar, genes, whatever. How could I not? Because nobody can really tell what caused BC, my concern after surgery/chemo/radiation, is to make sure it doesn't recur because of the same habits in my past. My goal now is to live a healthier lifestyle, because research has shown that it does slightly reduce the risks of recurrence. Alcohol, for example, is a way to relax, but it has so much potential for destruction. And I believe a lot of us know that.

tooyoungtohavebc

but it tastes so good

abbadoodles

A thought crossed my mind last night when reading over some of these posts and that was that men, who, I believe, tend to drink far more than women (maybe I'm wrong on this) even accounting for body composition, have much lower rates of bc than women do.  Is it strictly related to hormones, body fat, ???  Something to ponder.

BTW, I think there has been more of a cause and effect established between smoking and lung cancer, while the same is not true for alcohol consumption and bc, only a statistical correlation. 

Hey, if we all gave up drinking, how much weight do you think we'd lose collectively?  There's incentive for you. LOL

Tina

paige-allyson

Actually the info out there on this topic is not just correlational, alcohol has been identified as a causal factor in a variety of cancers. You are right that although there is and association between alcohol and cancer is not as strong as the one that exists between tobacco and cancer. Nevertheless it is quite real and has been well understood for some time.

http://info.cancerresearchuk.org/healthyliving/alcohol/howdoweknow/#Breast

paige-allyson

Tina- re: the weight....ummm....a lot . In the little N=1 study I have going here about 22 pounds so far. I should be quite the one-breasted goddess on the beach this summer. LOL. Allyson

Cynthia1962

I'm still don't agree that stress causes cancer whether directly or indirectly.  I know some extremely anxious people in their senior years who don't have cancer of any kind.  Studies that examined the cancer rates in people exposed to stressful events (having their child die or get cancer, being in a concentration camp, etc) didn't find cancer rates higher than the general population.  All these people couldn't have positively interpreted their experiences 100% of the time so they were able to avoid cancer. 

Don't get me wrong...I don't think constant stress is good for the body.  I just don't think it's as bad as some want us to believe.  Life has always been stressful.  Was there ever a time or age when humans weren't fighting to survive?  I know we're told that early humans only experienced the flight or fight response occasionally, but we modern humans experience it constantly and that's why it's so harmful.  Proof, please?  I personally think that not knowing where your next meal will come from, or if you'll be some animals dinner, or how many of your infants will die, or what you'll do if your fire goes out, etc. would make life pretty much constantly stressful.  If our bodies weren't designed to handle the stress, humans would have died out a long time ago.  

I want to prevent a recurrence, too, but I want something that's truly going to work and not just make me feel more in control.  I wish we had more facts and less quasi-science, feel good recommendations.  It's ridiculous that in the almost 40 years since my husband's mother died of breast cancer in her 40's that we still don't know what causes the disease.  That's just wrong!

Beesie

Cynthia, I wasn't suggesting that stress causes cancer or that everyone who experiences extreme stress is at higher risk of cancer.  I simply believe that stress may be another one of the hundreds (thousands?) of triggers.  As I said in my earlier post, I think each of us has a unique combination of triggers - genetic, physical (but not genetic) and environmental - that may have caused and then activated our cancers.  For many people, stress may not be a factor.  But I think for some of us, it is.  Similarly, for some people, alcohol may be one of the triggers whereas for others, it may not be.

mtbmom

Well, this is an interesting and fun thread!  I too have a couple of glasses of wine each week.  I never drank when young, and have always eaten organic and natural foods. Never smoked, never did drugs.  I have also exercised regularly for over 37yrs, and I still get bc!  Somehow, I can't believe my one vice (a nice glass of Pinot 3-4 times per week) put me here!  I do enjoy a good wine, just like some enjoy good chocolate or a great steak (red meat supposedly was a large contributor to bc as well, if I recall).  I don't do chocolate or eat read meat very often (maybe once every 2 mos).  Can't a girl have just one vice without getting kicked in the boobs?!!!!

Little-G

mtbmom..

Yes, we can!  I think if we took all of us, and picked apart what we ate, drank, did in our everyday life, no matter what sort of life you are living, I bet we would find some sort of carcinogen lurking about.  I am with you, and will continue to enjoy my glass of red.  It's a crazy world out there!  Once I close the gate on my

driveway...I like to keep it out there!  :-)

g

erickcarpenter

My wife's medical oncologist quoted a study showing that a single glass of wine could increase the chance of reoccurence by somwhere around 40% or better. (Been awhile, but the number actually spooked me). My wife chose to quit booze all together. Her choice, not mine. But she felt that if it had that much of an impact on her immune system, she would forgoe the booze. It is a personal choice, do what your intuition tells you.

Anonymous

As I read through these posts, it occurs to me that, for "normal" (non-alcoholic) breast cancer survivors whose tumors were estrogen positive, this issue is similar to the soy question. Although the jury is still out on soy products and the degree to which they simulate estrogen, thus contributing to the development of BC, some of us has been advised by our oncs, or have chosen on our own, to eliminate soy from our diets. Many eschew soy absolutely and altogether, while others of us eat it in moderation. I happen to be one of the moderate partakers....because I love tofu. I know, however, that some might think this "risky" behavior. Oh well. I'm about enjoying life and not living in fear. It seems to me that those of you, knowing that some studies show a direct correlation between alcohol and BC, choose to enjoy it anyway, in moderation, just as I enjoy tofu (well, maybe not just like that !).

Life is short. If you truly enjoy a behavior that can't be shown to be directly harmful (and very moderate drinking for non-alcoholic women may just fall into that category), I say go for it! If, however, your drinking leads to life problems or you find that you always drink more than you'd like or intend to, it sounds like a behavior you might want to eradicate.

JMHO......

~Marin

jdash

i have doubts about the alcohol theory because i have many friends who indulged as much or more than me and do not have bc

it may have some correlation i lost my first husband who got dx5 months after we married (he passed away 5 yrs later after a long stressful battle)  so there is the stress factor

tofu i thought was good to prevent cancer and i loved it so i ate it alot thru the years......  and also roasted soy beans when i was in college(we thought we were being so healthy! )

i think that it will be something much more greater than any of us know when they finally figure it out

paige-allyson

jdash- I have the same situation with women I know- high alcohol intake, no bc. However, we cn't (shouldn't) base our conclusions on this kind of "research" in our immediate social circles- it doesn't work. Please refer to my previous posts- especially the "stats lesson" and the links to articles.

I know it must have be hard/incredibly stresful to go through your first husband being dx so soon in your marriage. We had just been married a month when I was dx with bc- coming up on our first anniversary next month.

It is a shame about the soy- I consumed soy about as heavily as I consumed alcohol, thinking, like you, that it was good for me. Oh well...I am always interested in new discoveries about the causes and cures of bc and cancer in general. My most recent interest is on the use of ketogenic diets (short term) to treat advanced cancer including bc- another member here brought this area of research to my attention- those interested can google it- ketogenic diet and cancer.

wallycat

Upon my dx, I also posted a similar question about eliminating wine, etc....and several gals were 15 years out and still consumed wine (some 2 glasses nightly).

I have a twin sister...we both had a wilder 20's in terms of drinking.  When I met my DH, I really settled down...sure, occasionally, I'd consume more than I needed to, but over all, I'd have wine with dinner.... usually 2 glasses.  My twin sister has only recently stopped alcohol, but she too cut way back to 1 drink/day or so....(hers is religious reasons).

 I have the dx and my sister (thankfully) is cancer free...plus she JUST stopped taking birth control pills when she hit 50.

My DH's ex-wife was an alcoholic for 10+ years......she has been clean and sober for many years now...no breast cancer.

I did read a pubmed study that seemed to negate alcohol consumption with a folate supplement, and I always took a b-complex to ensure protection.  GO FIGURE.

Life is a crap-shoot.

My onco and surgeon both said they don't care if I drink or not (moderation).

When I was seeing patients, I would always ask them..."if you make these changes and find out they had no effect, how would you feel?"  now I do the same for myself.

HeatherBLocklear

Hi all,

The most recent studies suggest a possible link between BC and heavy alcohol consumption in younger women (before age 30). There seems to be little or no correlation between moderate drinking and BC in more mature females. Finally, there appears to be no link at all between alcohol and triple negative BC.

We can keep looking for reasons to blame ourselves for BC, but I believe that in most cases it's simply, as my breast surgeon put it, "the luck of the draw."

Hugs to all,

Annie

RobinWendy

My oncs asked me about alchohol consumption and I answered that in a given week, I may have 4-5 glasses of wine (no more hard liquor for me... it makes me sick).  Both oncs said that they did not think it was a big problem (one is the head of breast oncology of a major cancer institute, the other a bc specialist at Sloan-Kettering.  So, I try to make sure I do not go above that amount.  That works for me.

Robin

paige-allyson

Annie- I understand the same thing with the triple negative- alcohol consumption doesn't seem to figure in much. Er+ is a different matter. In my own case it's not about blaming myself- that would be foolish at this point- it's about the decisions I make going forward.

Robin Wendy- It seems like there is less concern for women who drink fewer than 6 drinks per week- so your oncs advice seems pretty reasonable. I was a heavier drinker and had a highly er+ breast cancer so I choose not to drink based on the current research. Marin in a post a few back makes I think a good comparison between the choice to use alcohol in moderation and the choice to eat soy products- for moderate drinkers it's more about your comfort level since the evidence of it being a problem is not so strong- hence your doctor's being okay with it.

bear1206

Hi to all.   How do you deal with family members who make you feel guilty about having a drink.   I feel like everyone is judging me.   I was diaganosed in December 2006, 45 years old, ER/PR+, HER2+, Stage I.   I went through lumpectomy, chemo, radiation, herceptin and now I am on armidex for 5 years.  I enjoy having a few drinks on the weekends.   My oncologist and surgeon said it isn't a problem.   Everyone thinks I am suppose to be back to normal and be happy.  Also, my house burnt down April 30, 2007.  I will never go back to being normal and when someone looks at me for having a drink I just want to scream at them.   Help!

Marilyn 

lisa39

Marilyn,

That's a tough one.  If someone actually says something to you, you might tell them that your onc. and surgeon say it's fine to have a few drinks.  The 'looks' are a bit harder.  You can tell what they're thinking but unless they come right out and say it, you might come across as paranoid if you start trying to justify it.

Either way, it's lousy.  People love to judge. 

VBG

Hi Ladies,

While I too enjoy my glass of wine...haven't had any since my bi-lat, I am more concerened about the toxic environment we are all exposed to everyday via toxic chemicals we use in our homes everyday.  I have eliminated all the chemicals in my home and have also found a way to eliminate pesticides,chemicals and bacteria from my foods.  What I eat and breath each day is of more concern to me than my glass of wine. 

check out this website for more info on how to live chemical free:

www.tersano.com

I do not think any of us will ever know why we got cancer but my focus is definitley on my environment as this is one way I can hope to protect the rest of my family from any risk.

All the best,

Valerie

rrs

I'm a wine drinker and worry more about the effect it has on my liver than breast cancer.  But, I think worry and stress affects the body a lot.  Talking about crap-shoot...I have three high school friends who were early drinkers and still are (two of them heavy drinkers), all three had no children and had breast implants.  None have developed breast cancer by age 55.  I mention breast implants just because it is interesting rather than cancer related - they had them and I didn't. 

I think the causes of BC vary and may be a combination of things but do belive that environmental toxins play a big role.  

spacebrit

Hi...My husband loves Black Swan.  It's from Australia and has a multitude of red flavors.  He gets it from Von's Pavillion for about $5.00 a bottle and they usually run a special if you buy 5 or 6.  Happy sipping.