Is anyone else an atheist with BC besides me?

Miriandra

DivineMrsM

My son lived with his girlfriend about five years. They went their separate ways at the beginning of the year but parted as friends. She was a big part of my life all that time and I really liked her, still do. Last week, ds told me that she'd recently been diagnosed with multiple sclerosis. I feel tremendous sadness at the news. I want to send her a card and went to the Hallmark store today, to the “encouragement" “support" and “thinking of you" section. They had a big selection but as I began reading them, I was dismayed to realize that 50% or more used God and/or prayer in the written sentiment. This eliminated a large portion of the cards for me as the religious references were not something I wanted to buy or send to her. Grrr. I read every card, finally settling on one that would do. I guess God must sell, or they wouldn't have so many religious cards.

AliceBastable

All the god references on cards, tee shirts, journal covers, bumper stickers, you name it, strike me as distastefully and disgustingly performative. Look how Christian I am! I'm a better person than anyone else! 🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮

Back to FB to post Dear Satan prayers on all the spam from JEEEsus pages. It's my new hobby. "Dear Satan 👹, please gather these christian scammers and spammers into your hands and hold them to your fiery 🔥 loving bosom forever and ever. Amen ❤️👹❤️"

wrenn

In Canada talking about religious beliefs would be like talking about BMs. Just crass. We don't know if any politicians have any beliefs and I find it jarring to read U.S. politicians (even the "normal" ones) mentioning jesus. Like AliceB I see it as "distastefully and disgustingly performative. Look how Christian I am! I'm a better person than anyone else!"

My son's funeral was in a United Church since it was convenient for a large crowd and the minister came to visit me before hand and we laughed about my atheism. She invited my son's gospel choir to perform for the service (son was also an atheist but loved singing in the gospel choir).

It's interesting how talk of any other magical thinking like witchcraft, paganism or things equally as out there as christianity especially catholic rituals (transubstantiation anyone!!!!) are shunned.

ThreeTree

Wrenn - Interesting your comment about how in Canada no one talks about their religious beliefs publicly, like some do here in the US. My mother grew up as an Anglican/Episcopalian in Washington, DC, and that's how it was for her and how she always explained it to me, i.e. religious beliefs are personal and private and not something you broadcast and get "showy" about. She referred to any of the showy "and waving" type people as "Holy Rollers". My father was raised a Catholic in Washington, DC and he too was of the belief that religion is a private matter that is to be both respected and not showy in any way. He never went to church as an adult, but he always maintained the private and respectful notion about religion. They told me once about how when my father was stationed on Whidbey Island during the Korean War, here in the Puget Sound area, they went to hear a church choir, because they liked choral music, had been in a glee club together in their youth, and were looking for some "culture" that they didn't seem to find real prevalent on the west coast - wink. They were then shocked out of their seats when they attended the concert and started to observe how various members of the choir would step out periodically and tell the audience how they'd been "saved", "found Jesus", etc. I believe it is called "giving your testimonial" in some religious groups, and the whole idea is to tell the world all about your religiosity.

My parents never got over it, and off and on while I was growing up they would share that experience and re-tell it with incredulity. I also have childhood friends who were raised as Catholics and they would never engage in any of that sort of behavior and are equally put off by it. I think it is just some "sects" and certain groups that are into all that. Traditional Anglican/Episcopalians down here, and the Catholics I've known throughout my life, are absolutely not into that stuff, but there are some "renegades" it seems in all congregations and denominations these days. Weird.

wrenn

I think my post sounded like a generalized observation about Canada vs. the US. and religion. I think maybe in America many people are more vocal about a lot of things so maybe it just stands out more when it is religious. Maybe we are repressed. :-)

We don't cry talk here either. If you are overcome and happen to cry in public it is quiet and you stop talking. We wait until we are less verklempt to start speaking. It might be the hollywood influence there where it was ok to show everything and we are more British (worrying about the queen right now). :-(

I think those living close to the borders might be more "americanized". I grew up a couple of miles from Detroit and all of our TV and radio stations were American. When I moved to BC I was told I had an American accent.

sorry. got off topic again *sigh

ThreeTree

Wrenn - I used to have a Canadian friend from up your way (Powell River), and she and I used to enjoy talking about some of the Canadian/American differences. I remember one thing she told me was about the American phrase, "big ole", as in, "I got me a big ole truck" or "We got a big ole turkey for everyone at Thanksgiving". She said no one in Canada would be caught dead saying "big ole". Well, actually that's fairly regional her in the US and many Americans would also not be caught dead saying "big ole". So much is regional and we just never think of that and apply a lot of language and culture to a whole country when we hear it. I'll bet people in places like PE Island and Nova Scotia have different accents and figures of speech, etc. than those in BC. Just some thoughts.

I lost track of that friend years ago, so don't know whatever happened to her. She was real nice.

I too am sad about the queen situation. Everyone knew it would happen, but as always when it really does happen, it hits you. She was queen my whole life. Even though I'm an American, she and Philip were constants in the lives of people of my generation - real "fixtures" if you will. It will be different to have a world without either one of them.

wrenn

Threetree, When I moved to BC I could identify anyone from Michigan. "We" had a different accent than my neighbour from Tennessee. My then mother in law (California) thought my son (British Columbia raised) sounded British. We can also tell when someone is from eastern Canada. Love the accents from there. Most of America doesn't seem to have accents to me.

I am not a royal watcher but the queen was pretty cool. Sad day.

ThreeTree

Wrenn, I love accents in general. They say someone is really from "somewhere". I hear many Canadians speak and I would never know that they weren't Americans except for that "oot and aboot" sort of thing that pops up. I had a friend whose family was from Ottawa and they sounded a bit different than what I hear from BC. My friend's sister would put on an "Ottawa Valley" accent for us from time to time and it was amusing to hear her do that. I also had a social work professor who had been raised in Victoria and she sounded a little different. Many people thought she sounded British. I thought it was "closer" to British than our American accents, but not at all truly "British".

I know what you mean about most Americans all sounding the same. I think travel and TV and radio, etc. have caused a sort of "universal" accent that most people have. My mother and her family had what used to be known as a distinct "DC" accent (similar in Maryland) and she just gradually lost it after years of being on the west coast. I spoke with someone some years back about that accent and they said that that old Washington, DC accent is gone now and that nobody has it. From what I hear on TV from people from that area, it is indeed pretty much gone. It's actually kind of sad. I don't think I want every English speaker to sound the same.

I too am not particularly a royal watcher, but this is really something. I think I would have liked Queen Elizabeth if I'd ever known her. Can't wrap my head around all the "King Charles III is saying ..." that I'm starting to hear and read now. So weird.

Well, all of this has absolutely nothing to do with being an atheist or not, so I'm probably cluttering up this thread with unwanted banter. I suppose there is the connection that the queen was head of the Anglican Church, and apparently a believer - but again, one who would never be showy, tacky, and gauche about whatever her beliefs were.

AliceBastable

I'd have to disagree with you about Catholics, ThreeTree. I'm married to one, and this city is heavily Catholic. They may not be Holy Roller performative (my Mom said the same as yours did!), but they just assume the whole world is Catholic. They don't ask about your neighborhood, but your parish. If you tell them you don't go to church, the look in their eyes is like something shorted out. I had a co-worker try to lecture me for eating meat on a Friday. I reminded her I'm not Catholic, and she got that shorted-out look. Then she got an attitude, like how dare I not be Catholic! Even the less active Catholics are still clueless about anyone else's religion, or lack of it. My son stopped going to church with my husband as soon as he graduated from high school. Several years later, he started attending an Episcopal church, for social reasons and for some of their social issue programs. Hubs and I have gone to their social gatherings, and they're so low-key that their Christmas program for families was completely secular. If not for Covid, it might have been a compromise thing to do. I may be a nontheist, but I'm also a secular Christian, as in, I like the music and SOME of the atmosphere and it's the cultural background for me.

I always thought it was interesting that England has a state religion and the U.S. doesn't, but based on behavior about religion, no one would guess which one was which.

ThreeTree

Alice - Interesting about your experience with Catholics compared to mine. I've had Catholic friends all my life and they've never pushed the religion at all. I also work for a small family business and they are Catholic, but it's only ever mentioned in passing, and then if they have a family funeral, it's held at a Catholic church, but other than that, there's no mention of religion at all.

I do have an extended family member who is what I guess you would call a "conservative Catholic" - won't vote for anyone who isn't anti-abortion, etc.; and even she and her family don't expect others to necessarily be the same. They seem to appreciate it when anybody goes to any church, because they just feel it is important. I've just never had any Catholics that I know "in my face" about it.

Re the fish on Friday: I thought Vatican II did away with that requirement. My mother told me that many Episcopalians also observed the fish on Friday tradition, and as a child we always had fish on Friday and my mother told me that while it was also an Episcopalian thing (as she was), she did it primarily for my non-practicing Catholic father. By the time I was in high school, that family tradition had pretty much vanished and neither one of my parents seemed to care or give it any thought. I think it was my mother who told me that Vatican II got rid of the fish on Friday thing, so your co-worker might not have been up on the latest.

I've attended Episcopalian services off and on and my two daughters used to love going for social reasons, especially. I don't know that either one of them is really deeply religious. They used to enjoy a high school camp they went to every summer, but they did tell me that there were the others there to "watch out for", meaning "evangelical Episcopalians" (a contradiction in terms in my book), aside from the traditional ones. When I did attend services sometimes, I would sometimes meet people who told me they were "recovering Catholics" and that they found the Episcopal Church very close to what they knew as Catholics, but not so severe. I know some call the Episcopal view of doing things "Catholic lite".

Yes, I think many people here sort of presume that we too have a state religion - at least general Christianity. Like you too, I do feel pretty much like a secular Christian, and agree that the culture and the way I was raised is all part of that. It's just part of who I am. I love Christmas music and church music in general. I even like a lot of the ritual of the services. I just don't think my idea of a higher being is quite the same as that of mainstream religion, and I can totally understand why some don't believe at all. It's too bad that a certain group of so called "Christians" have co-opted the term Christian. If I say I am Christian, I mean it in the sense that I am of western European descent and share in that culture and it's traditions. It's my background and a big part of my identity, but I don't mean "Christian" the way so many Bible thumpers and hand waivers do. It's a shame what they've done to the term.

wrenn

I was baptized and then "confirmed" (after classes) Catholic. I was named after my father's aunt who was a nun. My uncle was a priest. I then started to read about religions and became a confirmed atheist. I actually am surprised/curious when people believe in any god or see them as anything other than symbolic. I don't really care what helps them get through a day as long as they leave me out of it and don't preach it. :-)

Catholicism actually did harm in my world. One example was my first marriage ended partly due to me being a virgin still 8 months after getting married at nearly 22 yers of age and "going steady" for over 4 years. My father found out and said "I always knew you were a good girl". How effed up is that?

I find the rituals creepy.

AliceBastable

Wrenn, That's just sick - and so very Catholic. ThreeTree, my lecturing Catholic co-worker was one of those anti-Vatican II, holier than any modern pope types. I'm sure whatever she yelled during sex was in Latin, and then three weeks of daily confession after, if she could find a priest to meet her standards.

There seems to be a tradition in my family of marrying Catholics without converting. Both of Dad's sisters did it, and my maternal grandmother was Catholic, but not my grandfather. She got the boys for Sundays and he got my Mom.

DivineMrsM

I was raised Catholic and found it confusing. In my 20s I became a born again Christian and got a lot out of it. But by middle age when the blinders fell off my eyes, I could never unsee what started becoming crystal clear: the patriarchy in religions. Interestingly, the book “Dance of the Dissident Daughter" by Sue Monk Kidd fell into my hands; I had no idea what the book was even about when I began reading it, but she went through similar insights and the book was so helpful to me.

Christians are too often closed minded and don't consider that others experience spirituality in different ways. Roseanne Cash, Johnny's daughter, wrote beautifully of how art in its many forms and music are “more trustworthy expressions of God than religion." Too many Christians I know won't even listen to another point of view. Women seem especially conditioned and seem to take delight in being “good little girls" even as adults, always prioritizing the opinions of men and allowing men to call the shots. In other words, submission.

Wrenn, your dad was happy you were a virgin even months after being married, but how well did that go over with your husband?

On the topic of accents in the U.S., generally those in southern states speak with a drawl. I live in east central Ohio and the drawl starts becoming apparent in southern Ohio where my brother lives. He has a noticeable twang which I personally like. Southerners often speak more slowly than Northerners. In Tennessee, I got a kick out of hearing the word “buffet" pronounced boo-fay, and theater was said thhee-ATE-er. The descriptive phrase “big ole" falls into the regional colloquialism category, A person would use that in a humorous way where I live but further south it may be said more sincerely. With my close proximity to Pittsburgh, I sometimes use the word “yinz" when talking to two or more friends, as in “What are yinz watching?" I'd never use the word in more formal settings.

AliceBastable

I grew up in Illinois, about 30 miles northeast of St. Louis, Missouri. I always thought we sounded accentless, and that was borne out by my time in the Air Force - the young women from military families that had moved frequently sounded very much like people I grew up with. But then I noticed on my phone message that I sounded like the Howells from Gilligan's Island, kind of Long Island Lockjaw! Someone I grew up with left a phone message for me one day and she sounded exactly like I did - a very flat voice with a non-southern drawl. I don't notice it in people from nearby towns. For Illinois, the southern-ish accent started much farther south, about 100 miles. I've been stuck in Missouri for several years, and the southern accent (of the yee-haw variety) starts just a county or so south of St. Louis. The difference might be the large German immigrant population in Illinois in the 19th century.

Miriandra

I'm Memphis, TN born and raised. My accent is usually pretty subtle aside from "y'all" and "darlin'", but there are certainly times when it comes to the fore.

"When Your Southern Accent Really Comes Out"

spookiesmom2

I’m originally from Cincinnati, a place full of Kentucky and German accents. Plus a bunch of others. I have relatives in Ky and Tennessee that I sometimes can’t understand their accents are so thick. But if they slow down a bit, I can understand Southernese.

I had a bit of a drawl, but after almost 40 years here, it’s gone. I miss it.

wrenn

I'm half Scottish and Irish Canadian. I have to have closed captioning for Scottish movies.

Miriandra

Wrenn, have you seen the video short about the voice activated elevator in Scotland? It's brilliant!

Scottish Elevator Sketch

mara51506

My first post here. I am an atheist myself, there is not one faith I believe in myself. I have faith that things in my life will work out they way they are supposed to. I don't mind if other people show faith in front of me either as saying prayers may help others through difficult times.

Hi Wrenn and everyone.

wrenn

Miriandra, That was hilarious. I sent it to my sister. Glad I am not the only one struggling with Scottish.

Waving to Mara. Welcome to the heathen thread. I read your posts in Mel's living room and so glad you are still (mostly) all posting.

mara51506

Thanks wrenn, happy to see you too!

ThreeTree

Mirandra - The Scottish elevator clip is really funny! I needed something like that today. Re accents, my mother grew up in Washington, DC then moved to the west coast not long after she got married. When I was pretty young, she too would say "y'all". She would holler out the window at us, "Ya'll ready for dinner?" and things like that. She gradually lost that and it just became, "you all", which I actually picked up and say myself. The DC locals and Marylanders had a lot of southernisms in their speech and culture. "Oh, Lordy!" was another one of their sayings that my mother gradually dropped and it became just "Oh, Lord!" when she was incredulous about something.

Wrenn - Are you getting all that fire smoke that's down here, up your way? It's giving me a headache and sore eyes. Supposed to clear out in the next day or two I think.

Re the religion topic of this thread, I had an interesting experience over the last couple of days. I have said here before that I'm not actually an atheist, but somewhere between "believer" and agnostic. However, I've never liked people pushing religion, being showy about it, etc. I also mentioned before that I have an extended family member who is what would be called a "conservative Catholic" - very devout. We don't agree on politics, etc., but we just "don't go there" with each other. There are so many other things that bind us together and that we enjoy about each other that we just don't get into politics and religion much, if ever, when we talk.

Well, yesterday I spoke to her on the phone and she told me how she is having a big medical procedure (angiogram) on Monday, because she has recently learned that her heart is in really bad shape. She is very scared, worried, anxious - you name it, we all know those feelings, and she asked me to please pray for her. Well, I'm not particularly a "prayer", but here I was with my SIL who is terrified and finds tremendous comfort in religion and the idea of praying for others. Didn't really know what to do or say. I didn't verbally respond to her request over the phone yesterday; didn't giver her a "yes" or "no" about whether I would pray for her or not, because I did not want to be a hypocrite or lie to her. However, overnight, I thought about how much it means to her, so this morning when I got up I added her initials (to keep anonymity) and a request that others pray for her on an Irish Jesuit website. (She and I are both of Irish Catholic descent, but I am also of English and Scottish descent.) I emailed her this morning about what I had done and told her that Carmelite nuns in Dublin and others at other places would now get this prayer request in her name, and that I hoped it would help her feel better about Monday. She told me it was one of the nicest emails she has received in a long time and thanked me profusely. She told me how she really thinks it is helping her face the fear of Monday.

Many of us have trouble with people saying they will pray for us, or asking us to pray for them, but I do realize how much the idea of asking for prayers and praying for others means to so many people. When I realized how much comfort this brings to my SIL, it made me think about how those who say they will "pray for us", etc. really are well intentioned, and it isn't meant to be rude. It can be a real dilemma if you are not a "big believer", but someone who is, asks you to participate in a religious activity. If her reaction and tremendous appreciation for what I did is any example, I guess I did the right thing, in spite of my own questioning of religion.

illimae

miriandra, the elevator skit was great! I saw a funny video of an Irish woman trying desperately to get Alexa to play a song too, so funny. I have an ear for accents and specific voices, so I often translate to my husband when watching UK mysteries or Derry girls, which is hilarious.

illimae

I remembered incorrectly, it was Scottish trouble with Alexa, not Irish.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=orD-e_W6Pic

wrenn

That was funny Illimae. thank you. My Alexa understands Irish accent I guess. She kept responding when I listened to it

wrenn

Threetree.It isn't too smokey where I am near the ocean but we do have grey dull skies so I think it is moving west. My daughter's cabin is under evacuation alert. I guess this is the new summers. I think we thought climate change eff3cts would be well in the future. oop

ThreeTree

Wrenn - You probably have a bit of a breeze there by the water. Our wind here today is about 0. That's frightening about your daughter's cabin. I hope they weren't staying there or hoping to this week.

The one thing I do like about all of this wildfire smoke is that it smells like a campfire; that part's kind of nice. I have an old childhood friend whose been living in Anchorage, AK now for decades, and she says they have always had this, but they are getting more now. She says it can totally ruin whole summers in Anchorage and has on many occasions. It just never clears out sometimes.

Yes, this has to be climate change. I've lived here my whole life and this has only become a phenomenon in the last few years.

Elderberry

The elevator sketch cracked me up. When my sister and I travelled on Brit Rail for two weeks back in 1992, I acted as translator when we were in "the North" most of the time it was not an issue for me. Has anyone seen the movie "Riff Raff" (1991) Robert Carlyle the and a host of other actors. It had subtitles. Much needed. Scots, Irish, regional English accents.

I am agnostic, or Pantheistic ---- don't really know what I am. Not conventional religions. I like rituals but only for the spectacle. I like the mass in Latin because it just sounds sort of magical, since I don't speak Latin. I like Gregorian chants.

wrenn: I am just shaking my head and choosing not to ask "how come" after all that time.

wrenn

I spoke too soon about our smokey skies. Even though it isn't hot here today I had to put on A/C to get rid of the smoke smell. My throat was hurting.

Elderberry for the "how come" question do you mean why I did it after 8 months? lol

My sister (a nurse) came over with a tampon and said if I didn't put it in she would and gave me 15 minutes. I also got a lecture about how selfish I was. I didn't use the tampon but "did it" that night. :-) Marriage ended soon after. He was catholic too so maybe I was no longer a good girl.

Have to say I made up for lost time since. Dragged anyone passing by in with my hooked cane and nailed them.