Is anyone else an atheist with BC besides me?

ananda8

Fiddleman

Dear SoCalLisa. I'm a latecomer to this topic who is facing a possible recurrence of Stage II IBC. Incidentally, I am a male. I am a lapsed Catholic and former Unitarian Universalist who is now a skeptical agnostic. In my mind that means I just don't know, and I'm OK with that. I've always feared the process of dying more than the actual event, but now I'm not so sure. Almost every organized religion claims to have THE exclusive way to a human envisioned paradise. Who (if any) is right? I certainly don't believe in divine intervention in human affairs. I don't deny "miracles" but I don't believe they are caused by a deity. I think the reason we call them that is we have no scientific understanding of how they may occur...yet. And we may never really know since we experience what we call reality with only our 5 (6?) senses. With quantum physics' particle entanglement and spooky-action-at-a-distance now proven, who know what the multiverse is capable of. So I'll accept prayers, good vibes, blessings, healing thoughts etc. any time from any source (just don't ask me to actively participate.) If you'll indulge me, I'd like to post a selection from Blood Sweat and Tears version of "And When I Die":

My troubles are many, they're as deep as a well
I can swear there ain't no heaven but I pray there ain't no hell
Swear there ain't no heaven and pray there ain't no hell,
But I'll never know by living, only my dying will tell,
Only my dying will tell, yeah, only my dying will tell
And when I die and when I'm gone,
There'll be one child born and a world to carry on, to carry on

Another favorite is "Fruitcakes" by Jimmy Buffett:

Where's the church, who took the steeple
Religion's in the hands of some crazy-ass people
Television preachers with bad hair and dimples
The god's honest truth is, it's not that simple
It's the Buddhist in you, it's the Pagan in me
It's the Muslim in him, she's Catholic ain't she?
It's the born again look, it's the WASP and the Jew
Tell me what's goin on, I ain't gotta clue

I guess I'm not sure what my point is to this post except that I, like all other humans, am confronting my eventual demise, so I'm going to try wringing every drop out of what remains of my health and life and know that at least my molecules will reincarnate in some other iteration of life.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy. Hamlet

ananda8

Fiddleman, So well said.  Thank you.

Wren44

Welcome Fiddleman. Great choice of songs!

SoCalLisa

welcome fiddleman

.our many thoughts about things we will probably never know..I do know that there are many ways to do things and to think through another filter. We lived in Madrid for 4years and we adapted pretty well even when Franco was the dictator.

A good book is " Magic, Science and Religion " by Malinowski. It was required reading at my University.

Anyhow. Glad you can find a spot for inquiring minds

😊

Traveltext

Welcome Fiddleman. This is an interesting thread that explores all angles to atheism.

Great songs.

When I heard the second verse of Donovan's 'The Universal Soldier" as a young man, I thought he perfectly well put religions in perspective.

He's a Catholic a Hindu an Atheist a Jain
A Buddhist and a Baptist and a Jew
And he knows he shouldn't kill
And he knows he always will
Kill you for me my friend and me for you

Fiddleman

Wow SoCalLisa. Living under Franco must have taken spectacles the size of "Coke bottle bottoms" to put it in a different perspective. What a trip THAT must have been. Thanks for the book referral. It sounds like it's right up my alley. Right now I'm slogging through "The Voyage of the Beagle" and hope to get to his Galapagos description before I get there myself in Oct. HA! I bought the "Origin" also, but that's for later…much later!

Fiddleman

Hi Traveltext. Yup. In the day that was one of my "go-to" songs, especially as I was of draft age during Viet Nam. I'm thinking of doing a play list of songs that impacted my life and may include that among them. Now may I also suggest Iris Dement's "Let the Mystery Be"? I wont post the lyrics, but here's a YouTube link (sorry for the commercial)

Yet another is Gordon Boks "Turning Toward the Morning

Thinkers of the world, unite! You have nothing to lose but your preconceptions.

Fiddleman

Thank you ananda8. I've been thinking about this a long time. Glad they are appreciated

Fiddleman

Thanks Wren44. I've posted YouTube links to a couple of others. Obviously, music is important to me.

magiclight

Thanks for bringing music into my morning and with it some new thoughts to process.

Fiddleman

My pleasure, magiclight. While I play a waiting game I'm trying to focus on how I can help others. Glad you like the selections.

Traveltext

Good one Fiddleman. Communicating with bc people is pretty cool and takes the pressure off people at home. The thing about bc folks is that they just”get it”.

JWoo

SoCalLisa- were you at TJ? My dad was stationed there and we lived there for 4 years with Franco, 78-81, right when things really started to heat up (for us) with the Basque revolution. I still consider Madrid my home city.

SoCalLisa

Jwoo I don't know what TJ means. My husband was at JUSMAAG in Madrid and was a liaison with the Spanish Navy. We lived in Puerto de Hierro. 1972-1976. Franco died In November 1975. Juan Carlos was crowned King. Two of our boys attended Spanish schools. We loved our time there.🇪🇸🇺🇸

JWoo

Torrejon Air Base in Madrid. We lived in Royal Oaks, which is now a fancy condo development. I've encountered so many people from TJ that I take it for granted that everyone will know what I mean sorry!

My goal is to make it back before my 50th bday, and enjoy it from an adult's perspective. I feel so lucky that I got to experience travel as a dependent.

santabarbarian

Good thread idea!

I am an atheist, who sees a great deal of magnificence right here on earth... Like, there is a kind of squid that, at the end of it's life, turns into a puddle of goo and then re-forms into a new baby squid. Really! Or the butterflies that have a multi-generational migration cycle. Or how a flock of birds never runs into one another. Who needs an afterlife when we have life in all its incredible beauty and mystery?

I have only missed "religion" one time, and that was the death of my brother when I was a teen, many years ago, when it would have been handy to have a set of rituals that we could auto-pilot through, which we did not have. But I have not missed the God part.

All four of my grandparents and both parents and my sister: also atheists. I was even kicked out of Sunday school (which I only attended because my friends all were and I did not want to miss out) for questioning the logic and believability of Bible stories: "I don't think a person could survive being eaten by a whale..."

On the other hand my parents had a lot of emphasis on character, the golden rule, honesty, hardworking-ness, empathy, and other values. I have never felt unmoored or unspiritual.

I have a very dear friend of 40 years who is quite religious. Obviously she knows I am an atheist; I know she is deeply religious. There is zero issue between us as friends, because we both go on the quality of the person and the depth of the friendship, which has nothing to do with beliefs and everything to do with support, humor, loyalty, and actions here and now.

Re BC, I have never felt "why me?" Rather I have felt, "why not me?" I feel like my life has been exceptionally lucky, regardless of what happens to me re BC, and that the world we are in is the miracle.

SoCalLisa

Jwoo, I spent half the time at TJ. Hospital, commissary, BX, and I got my Masters there.My third son was born there. We had friends who lived at Royal Oaks. We loved the restaurant Tejas Verdes small world 😊

ananda8

Things are moving slowly in a positive direction.

magiclight

Ananda8: I heard a recent discussion that part of this change may be because young people see their church leaders reviling the LGBT community and families denouncing their LGBT children. Young people see the effects these negative attitudes have on lives and thus walk away from churches who have those attitudes. What is most needed is for understanding, acceptance, and love.

Regarding the Orlando killing of 49 people, most of whom were part of the LGBTQ community, James Martin SJ author wrote "In response, millions in this country grieved and voiced their support for the LGBT community. But I was concerned about what I did not hear. Although many church leaders expressed sorrow and horror, only a handful of the more than 250 Catholic bishops used the words gay or LGBT."

CDC focus on mental health among the LGBTQ community

Wren44

I loved the woman who lost her child in Thousand Oaks. "I don't want your thoughts and prayers; I want gun control."

AliceBastable

Wren44, that was a haunting moment when she said that.

And may I say, I'm happy to see this topic active again.

ananda8

magiclight

It is now that time of year when all things Christmas are in full swing and I've come to realize it is more about style, sales, and décor than substance. So, I am OK with the commercialism, enjoy a good Black Friday sale, a Cyber Monday sale, all the other pre-and post Christmas (Holiday) sales and gladly partake in the holiday parties. At one time I was averse to all the focus on what is slightly a religious season, but I've come to view it like I view Halloween. I don't believe in ghosts and goblins, but I love the festivities, the decorations, the candy and the parties. Let the parties begin and I'll leave my opinions at the host/hostess door. Gotta cut this short I've got some Cyber Monday sale items in my cart.

ananda8

I love the winter solstice more than Christmas or New Years which seem like made up holidays.  

AliceBastable

I'm a nontheist, but I also sort of consider myself a Secular Christian, as a cultural identity. I enjoy the holidays without believing in any of it. Keep the religious part out of tax-funded places and I'm good. I was pleasantly surprised last year when I attended a Christmas dinner at my son's Episcopal Church - the Christmas songs were all secular, and even the brief, vague blessing before the meal was inclusive of all or no beliefs. Apparently they keep the religious aspect for the actual church services. They seemed to get it better than many public institutions.

ananda8

The Episcopal church in America is the same as the Anglican church in Great Brittan. In Brittan, 16% of Anglican Priests are unsure about god and 2% admit to being atheists.  I guess they don't let the details bother them.

magiclight

Ananda...love the image you posted and agree about winter solstice. The little lights I use inside my house bring me feelings of both hibernation and peace on the winter solstice and beyond.

ananda8

It's all in the fine print. 

illimae

ananda, love it!

Warned DH to watch out for Festivus for the rest of us this year as tamoxifen rage has given me many grievances to air, lol (Seinfeld reference for anyone who might not know)