Spontaneous Remission

kkona3

Spontaneous Remission

kkona3

Hi.  I am a husband of a woman with breast cancer that has metasticized to her bones.  She was first diagnosed 5 years ago.  Since then, she had a lumpectomy, "chemo-lite (CMF?)," radiation, Tamoxifen, a liver resection, AC/Taxol, Arimidex, more radiation, Femara, Navelbine .........  The list goes on and on yet her disease continues to progress.

As most of you know, once you announce you (or a spouse) has breast cancer, everyone comes forward with "the cure" (an herb, a diet, a philosophy, an exercise, etc.) and/or the warning that modern Western Medicine has "the cure" but is making too much profit on treatment of breast cancer to provide "the cure."  Now, after ignoring all the "conspiracy theorists" and following the recommendations of all the surgeons, oncologists, and radiologists, I wonder if we made a mistake.  Is the body capable of healing itself better than the latest western medical interventions?  Can anyone show me a study that describes the survival rate of those who opted NOT to have any treatment for diagnosed breast cancer? 

I'm very afraid that we made a bad choice in putting our faith in western medicine and only the healthcare system benefited from it.  I'm hoping someone can show me a study because I'm feeling very guilty that my wife still has this cancer.

LouiseIndigo

Gosh please don't feel guilty because your wife is ill. I can only imagine how much your love and support mean to her. I spent enough time feeling very guilty just because i got the diagnosis and then because i was diagnosed so late.

It's the hardest thing in the world to go against medical advice. Conventional treatment really is the only real option that's "out there" -- i.e. we are not given alternative modes of treatment to choose. Going for an alternative that we find ourselves leaves us feeling subversive at best and dangerously reckless.

I have gone the conventional route in terms of chemo, surgery, radiation etc but what i have found to be hugely beneficial was to have consulted a nutritional therapist. I'm following a diet and supplement programme as prescribed by the therapist (alongside conventional treatment) that has turned my life around. My energy went from zero to ninety in 2 months. I was diagnosed with locally advanced cancer in May last year -- stage 3.

If you do a search for "integrated medicine" online you will find recognised cancer treatment centres across the USA which integrate complentary treatments with conventional. It's very common practice in Switzerland the Nordic countries which have among the best treatment outcomes in the world.

My best wishes to you and your wife

Louise

kkona3

Thanks for your response, Louise.  We have already been to nutritionists and integrative medicine centers.  We have altered our diets considerably, even to the point where some think we're nuts.  While this may have helped my wife have more energy, comfort, and even longevity, it hasn't provided the outcome that I expected.

Other acquaintances have even accused modern medicine of causing the continuation of her cancer.  I still believe in science and would like to see a study that compares those who chose no treatment or those who chose alternative medicines, to those who chose the protocols (with regards to longevity).

Does anyone have any statistics or know of any research?

Steve 

LouiseIndigo

Steve, I am sorry. I suppose i am hoping my own changed regime will have the same effect you expected for your wife.

In terms of comparative studies, the problem is they are not being done. There are small pockets of research being done on alternative treatments but they are miniscule when put beside the research and develpment that is conducted on things like the comparative study on tamoxifen and arimidex. Hence the alternatives can't be compared.

Neither governments nor companies seem to want to invest in anything other than conventional medicine. The fact that it has been found wanting only serves to pump more money in to hope to plug the holes rather than looking in any other direction. Conventional medicine scoffs at the alternatives -- and we "hope" that the alternatives we choose will do us some good.

I really wish i could be more helpful.

Louise

AnnNYC

Hi Steve,

All I have are anecdotal stories of two women I know who rejected all Western medical interventions for their breast cancer and chose nutritional therapies instead -- both died within 2 years.

A third friend of mine had ovarian cancer which she treated aggressively with surgery and chemotherapy.  She was pronounced "NED" (no evidence of disease).  During chemotherapy she became committed to macrobiotic diet (said her sense of taste changed so much that everything she used to love had become disgusting -- her ethnicity was Italian and she had always loved cooking and eating sausages, red sauce, meat lasagne, etc.).  As a "recovering from chemo" gift, I organized all our friends to chip in to buy her a week at a macrobiotic cooking school/country retreat which she loved.  She continued this diet to the end of her life.  Unfortunately, she had recurrence -- distant mets of her original ovarian cancer showed up about 2 years after end of first chemo.  She died about 8 months after recurrence was seen.

Mind you -- I don't think her recurrence was CAUSED by her macrobiotic diet -- not at all.  It's just that I don't think it was sufficient to prevent recurrence.

About the 2 women with breast cancer that I mentioned first: it's anecdotal evidence that 2 women who tried to achieve remission by avoiding Western medicine and following other regimens did not succeed.

Doctors can't design studies to study this in the U.S., because it would be considered unethical to withhold conventional treatments.

But a fair number of U.S. doctors look to alternative medicine as "adjunctive treatment."  They don't think you should forego surgery, chemo, or indicated adjuvant such as estrogen blockers or herceptin.  But they will study whether women who have the above PLUS some alternative treatment (nutritional regimen or aromatherapy or reiki or relaxation training or herbal supplements...) do better than women who only have "conventional" treatment.

I don't think you should feel guilty.  Bottom line: I have two friends who declined Western Medicine in favor of a "cure" -- and who died of breast cancer within 2 years of diagnosis.

AnnNYC

Steve,

A paper was published in British Medical Journal in 1962 describing 250 cases of untreated breast cancer seen at Middlesex Hospital in England between 1805 and 1933.  There was no spontaneous remission in any of the cases.

Natural History of Untreated Breast Cancer (1805-1933)

H. J. G. Bloom, W. W. Richardson, and E. J. Harries

Br Med J. 1962 July 28; 2(5299): 213-221.

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1925646

I know this is not the same thing as a study of alternative treatments, but it does tell you the natural history of untreated breast cancer -- which, in my opinion and experience, is what happens if you forgo conventional treatment, even if you are trying some alternative treatment.

Jellydonut

Steve,

I'm wondering if the friends accusing conventional medicine doctors of continuing the growth of your wife's cancer actually have cancer themselves?

Cancer is a compilation of at least 200 diseases.  It's enormously complicated and that is precisely why we're still without a cure.

Until the time comes that we're fully into the genetics of cancer (and that's about 10 - 15 years away), the doctors can only treat with what's available, hence the reason your wife (and millions of other women) are given so many drugs/treatments.  Feeling guilty about something you have no control over is only making you feel much worse.  The doctors don't have control over the outcome either.

Take two women with the same diagnoses and were given the same drugs/treatments and one can survive, while the other doesn't.  The doctors cannot explain why this happens.  

Of course we're all angry about this but convential medicine is all we have. Not one of us on these boards has any idea of what lies ahead.  We can only live each day and hope there will be a tomorrow. 

I'm terribly sorry your wife is in this situation and sorry for you too, that you're feeling guilty, but alternative medicine does not have the answer to cancer either. 

I too, hope for spontaneous remission for your wife.

Blessings to you and your wife. 

Shirlann

Steve, I am sorry, but there is no "conspiracy" to not cure cancer.  Believe me if it could be cured with anything other than what we are doing, it would be.  There is no plot to withhold treatment.

In some cases, these people are selling you something to try or use.  They are the rats, trying to tell people they can be cured if they turn their back on hundreds of studies and testing and use XYZ that THEY are happy to sell you.

Certainly, changing your diet to include more good things will surely help and many other life style changes can help.  But most of us here believe that this should be done in ADDITION to recommended treatment.

It would be totally impossible for the whole world of medicine to be in on a "plot".  Think about it.  It is silly. 

Gentle hugs, Shirlann  

kkona3

In answer to your question, the biggest opponent of our approach to my wife's treatment comes from my best friend, an internist whose wife also has breast cancer.  After she had a lumpectomy, she refused all other treatment by physicians and is pursuing a metaphysical treatment.  In a recent discussion with my doctor friend, he suggested that I seriously consider the "Macrobiotic Diet" as prescribed by the Gerson Institute as the treatment for my wife.  My friend's wife refuses to go back to have a radiologist or oncologist review her status with respect to the disease.

kkona3

Dear AnnNYC,

Thank you for that link.  I've spent quite a bit of time reading the text.  I feel that if nothing else, my wife has already lived twice as long since diagnosis as those who went untreated.  I am feeling much happier about our decisions to undergo conventional therapies.

Steve 

kkona3

Shirlann,

My usual response to the "conspiracy theory" is "What about the insurance companies?  They are the ones as interested in a cure for cancer as the patient is!  They are funding all the expense in treatment.  They have no interest in continuing therapies that don't work."  I believe you are correct.

Steve 

AnnNYC

Steve,

You're welcome -- I'm glad it has made you feel better.

One of the women I mentioned above -- who chose alternative over conventional treatment for breast cancer, and died -- had been a close friend of my boyfriend.  When I was dx'd he said: "I need you to be here.  Promise me you'll do everything the doctors say they can do for you -- if you want to go to wheat-grass-juice camp, you can always do that AFTER you finish the doctors' treatments!"

And that's what I'd tell anybody else.

Good point about the insurance companies!

FloridaLady

Steve,

Have you asked her doctor what she should expect from latest treatment?  I have read that most chemo's are only good for six months (at most) and than your cancer will out smart it and change enough for the chemo not to be able to find it.(I have experience this after 7 diff. chemos)  If you are not getting response after the second tx with new meds, than likely this drug will not help with long term use.  I have been told by clinics that doctors will treat as long as you want them too. (Yes! Its about money) Chemo with mets not responding is to consider only to extend life 4 to 6 months. She needs to get some facts on what her treatment means to her long term.

The way I approached my alternative supplements was this...

I would stop some of my supplement for 2 days before tx and 3 after.  If I did not get good response by the 2nd month I did all my supplements I wanted.  The chemo was just making me sicker for no reason.  I feet great through chemo and after and I don't regret doing my supplements. After 26 chemo in 16 months my blood work is perfect and I have no fatigue. (no thanks to modern medicine) I still have some cancer in breast area after 2 years of non-stop treatment.  I they are telling me anything else we do is just experimenting on a out come.  This from two of the top cancer centers.  (If you ask the hard question you get the hard answers.)

Don't give up hope I her.  You never know if something new is right around the corner.

Living in hope,

Flalady

kyrani99

It is not a cure for cancer that the biomedical-pharmaceutical industry are hiding but the truth about cancer.

It is possible to deliberately effect spontaneous cancer remission when you realize that the body is not a machine but purpose-driven. Ideas that are upheld with confidence lead to bodily reactivity. Identify the ideas and realize they are false and the body will do the job. I am living proof of that.

exbrnxgrl

I am sorry that your wife finds herself in this situation. Spontaneous remission? Yes, you hear stories. Individuals post anecdotes. Head to head studies, research ? Not really. Clearly, making healthy changes to diet and lifestyle is a good thing, but will it guarantee remission or no further progression? Sadly, the answer is no. The reality is that neither conventional nor alternative medicine has the magic bullet.

I was dx'ed with bone mets a mere 6 weeks after my surgery. I never got the chance to start chemo. I went on Arimidex (now on Femara), had radiation to my femur and 16 Aredia infusions. I have had no progression in over 4 years. Do I think that I'm "living proof" of the efficacy of this treatment path? No! I have a very indolent cancer and I am very, very lucky. Best of luck to your wife, and no guilt on anyone's part, please 😊.

BarredOwl

Not to discourage discussion if of interest, and FYI only, original post was in 2008, and original poster has not replied or logged on since 2008.

exbrnxgrl

barred owl,

Thanks for pointing that out. I usually look at dates, but clearly did not have enough coffee this morning 😉. I'm going to delete my post, because although I believe it's a valuable discussion, it best served by being on an active thread