Bottle 'o Tamoxifen

Springtime

Melatonin did not work for me, had to opposite effect. L-Tryptophan is an amino acid that stimulates your body to make it's own Melatonin, and this works for both my husband and me. We use BlueBonnet variety, you can get it on Amazon.com

Scottiemom11

Lovinglsliv. . . I have taken melatonin for years and have increased from 3mg to 5 mg to help me sleep.

ajbenefield. . .I have to avoid certain foods at night in order to sleep. Anything spicy or heavy increases my dry hot flashes. I have to eat b light bland foods for dinner or I don't sleep.

Scottie

hsant

Wendy, wishing you the best with respect to your bone scans.

I was prescribed Tamoxifen for ten years. My onc. Will change the meds when I reach menopause. It's to my understanding that 20mg is the standard dose

Occovegirl

Hi Ladies I have been on Tamoxifen since November I did not have any hotflashs at first now I have them a lot and night sweats. I also did get chills sometimes. But that subsided. Now I have missed periods has anyone else experienced this? Muscle cramps come and go also. I just figure I would rather live thru the side effects than have another cancer.

TeamKim

Hi ladies -- So reassuring to read that others are experiencing some of the same SEs that I have, even after two years of Tamoxifen. I have had nearly constant pain in my right hip and along my right shin for about three months. At first Tylenol and Motrin helped, along with doTerra Deep Blue rub, but it has worsened, and at times the OTC meds don't help. Pain is bad enough to wake me up or prevent sleep.

Today, out of the blue, my left hip and knee started hurting, along with my left thigh muscle. This afternoon, I was really hobbled by the pain -- felt like I aged overnight into an arthritic old woman.

I have some Norco left over from my surgery in 2013, so I think I will take that tonight to see if I can get a good night's sleep.

I am not scheduled to see my onco until April, when I get my Zometa infusion (which could also be contributing to these SEs). Is there any point in calling in the SEs? Is there a treatment that helps with the pain? Although I am post-menopause, I had osteopenia prior to BC, hence the Zometa and the Tamo rather than AI. I would hate to have to go off Tamo after only 2 year. So far I have been trying to tough it out, but now quality of life is affected.... Your thoughts would be so appreciated

MomOfTwins98

OccoveGril - Have had a very similar situation to you - I've really never had hot flashes (started Tamox on Nov 30) but had bad chills - the chills seem to be ending during the night and just now starting to feel warm...cant say they are hot flashes and Im not sweating but very warm. I had 4 periods from Nov 30 to Jan 13 and now nothing at all - had found cysts on right ovary during an MRI for something else so that was watched but went away. I get the pain but it subsides and still, no period. Then had rectal bleeding and ended up with Colonoscopy (I;m 49) and upper endoscopy - all good with colon, thankfully! So, the SE seem to change and come and go. As one writer here wrote, if I get a SE I wait a week or so and it usually goes away and goes on to something else. I have my MO appt on Monday so will go over all this with him. I developed an edema in breast after radiation now too so working with a lymphedema specialist PT. Then had a scare with small lump in other breast on Friday - was in yesterday for ultrasound and Mammo on that side...clear! Every step is difficult but one day at a time!!

lala1

Occovegirl and TeamKim--I found great relief from bone and muscle pain with turmeric and ginger. They were suggested by my holistic doc and really did the trick. I went from hobbling around like a 90 year old arthritic woman and waking up in the middle of the night to walk around (that was all that would help the pain) to going to a gym and working out every day. My MO puts everyone on Osteo BiFlex which didn't touch my pain. He now suggests turmeric and ginger as an alternative after seeing how well they helped me. I also told my dad about them because he suffers from degenerative knee pain. Said he was up almost every night walking around trying to ease the pain and now he sleeps through the night. IMO, can't hurt to try!!

letmywifelive

Hi lala1,

How were you preparing turmeric and ginger for eating and in what quantity ? My wife is on tamoxifen and suffers from frequent hip and leg pain. Seeking for any relief.

Thanks

Wendy3

Letmywifelive tumeric is amazing and has taken all my pain away. I make two things with it. I seep on low heat for an hour sliced fresh tumeric with ginger until really bright yellow. Then take it off the heat add a little honey and black pepper ( the pepper make us absorb it better) let cool and mix into soda water , tastes like ginger ale . Or you can heat almond or cashew milk with grated tumeric and a little honey or algave syrup some cinnamon and star anis and drink warm. Good luck

lala1

letmywifelive---or you can be like me and take it in capsule form because I hate to cook or even make teas!! No seriously...per my holistic doc, I take Gaia turmeric (he likes this because it's natural made and local sourced out of NC) and any decent brand of ginger. I take one capsule of each once a day. He told me to start with this dose, take for one month. If pain doesn't decrease, up to two capsule twice a day. If pain doesn't decrease then they probably just won't work for you. My pain went from about an 8-9 on a scale of 1-10 to mostly a 1 with a few times it goes to a 2. This was just from one capsule of each! They are both 550mg capsules.

etnasgrl

I finished up rads on February 15th. I met with my MO on February 17th. During that appointment, he gave me a prescription for Tamoxifen, however he told me to not begin taking it until 2 weeks have passed.
I'm assuming to give my body a little break and heal up some from rads.
So, that means according to him, I should start Tamoxifen on March 2. My period is supposed to start on February 28th. (I've stayed pretty much every 28 days throughout this whole ordeal.)

Will it matter if I start during my period because I'm sure I'll be on my period on March 2nd or should I wait until my period is finished? Does it even matter?
And have any of you waiting a week or so between rads and starting Tamoxifen? Or do you go straight from rads or chemo to Tamoxifen?

hsant

Etnasgrl, I can promise you that it will not matter if you start during your period. If you're concerned about this, call your doctor

etnasgrl

Thanks hsant, I did ask him about it and he told me that it didn't matter. It's not that I don't trust his answer, I do, (obviously, or he wouldn't be my MO!), but I like hearing other women's opinions on this and see how things worked for them.

MomOfTwins98

Hi

I was started in radiation and Tamoxifen in the same week! Started radiation on 11/23/15 and Tamoxifen 11/30/15 so no break for me. Since starting both of those, I had my period on December 1 for a couple days, one day period (yup, weird, only one day) on December 24 and then another on January 13 for a few days - that's it - have not had one since. Feel crampy but nothing so far. Started Turmeric tonight as I am not feeling well and hope it will help - seems to only have good benefits and spoke to the dietician at our Cancer Center - she said it is safe so no worries. May also try Magnesium but, if Turmeric helps, prefer to stay natural

TeamKim

Thanks Lala and Wendy -- I will give the Tumeric & Ginger a try. Be well, everybody

hsant

Etnasgrl, I apologize for sounding harsh. That was not my intention at all! Cancer is scary. Meds that go along with it can be scary, too. I find that my docs will talk me down from the ledge when I get overwhelmed, which is why I made that recommendation. Tamo has been around for over 30 years. It's one of the tried and true meds for estrogen related breast cancer. IMO, unless one has a (rare) debilitating SE, I'm a big believer in this drug

Occovegirl

Hi momoftwins98

Thank you for letting me know of your side effects also. I feel the same way some times side effects come and go .I just scheduled an appt with a gyno just to keep an eye on everything. I am so glad all of your tests came back with great news. It's great to know I am not alone and many women are fighting the same battles. I am 46 ans was diagnosed at 45.

Occovegirl

Thank you Lala I will definitely look I to trying it. How do you take it in food or just with water?

jbokland

I talked to my MO and said I was seriously consideringquitting tamoxifen. I can live like I'm 80 for the next 10 years!! We agreed to give me a two week break and look at alternative drugs. I've been off Tamoxifen for 3 days and I feel so much better!!!

One of the drugs she mentioned is Feraston. Apparently quite costly and often denied by insurance.

Whatever drug I end up with..ill probably just swap one side effect for another.

etnasgrl

hsant.....no worries, you weren't harsh, you gave me good advice! I guess I'm just trying to gather as much info and opinions on Tamoxifen before I start it.
You're SO right...cancer is scary and so are the meds/treatments. Since this is something my MO told me he would like to see me take for 10 years, I want to feel as prepared as possible. For some reason, Tamoxifen's side effects scare me.....I guess because I've heard so many horror stories. (But....I need to learn to ignore the horror stories. I was told them about various tests and treatments that I had, but nothing horrible happened to me.)

Anyway, thanks for taking the time to apologize, but really, it's okay!

lala1

Occovegirl--I just take my capsules in the morning with breakfast along with almost all my other supplements. I also take magnesium (400mg) that I split am and pm so I take my multivitamin at night with the magnesium. Everything else is morning. I'm more likely to remember morning (although I set the alarm on my fitbit for 8pm every night to help me remember that dose) so the important things like turmeric, ginger and Tamoxifen are morning.

etnasgrl--I have a recently diagnosed friend who is supposed to take tamoxifen but is refusing because she heard so many stories from me about it. I explained to her that you really only hear the bad things. She could be someone who has no SEs or very mild ones. You just need to start and see what happens. The great thing is there are thousands of women here just waiting to offer advice on how to get through it. I had strong SEs that started around month 3. I asked for advice here and then went to a holistic doctor and now I have a pretty normal life. There isn't anything I can't do because of Tamoxifen SEs. I struggle more with the effects of the mastectomy because my strength on that side is still somewhat limited. But Tamoxifen is manageable for most.

Scsa

I started tamoxifen about a month ago. So far, no SE. When did people start noticing SE if they have any? Thanks!!

Trvler

I had chills and hot flashes before I started Tamoxifen. I was in chemopause.

lala1

My SEs started around the 3rd month. For me, it was just muscle and joint pain. At a year, I had some nausea and dizziness. And I kept catching colds that first winter on it. Now I use saline rinse and probiotics along with my turmeric and ginger and I feel really good.

loriekg

etnasgirl...I started Tamoxifen 9 1/2 weeks after chemo (5 weeks after BMX). Side effects are manageable...I do feel 80 when I get up out of bed in the morning, but after a little bit I'm okay. I've been taking it for 7 months now and the hot flashes/chills are much better than they were last summer!

Marietje

Please pay attention to the possibilty that curcumin can inhibit tamoxifen. That is why the SE's disappear. Curcumin and tamox use the same breakdown-path in the liver,

Many 'holistic' stuff can counterplay regular medicine, so take care!

Marietje

2012 Feb;67(2):124-30.

Effects of curcumin on the pharmacokinetics of tamoxifen and its active metabolite, 4-hydroxytamoxifen, in rats: possible role of CYP3A4 and P-glycoprotein inhibition by curcumin.

Cho YA1, Lee W, Choi JS.

Author information

Abstract

The effects of curcumin, a natural anti-cancer compound, on the bioavailability and pharmacokinetics of tamoxifen and its metabolite, 4-hydroxytamoxifen, were investigated in rats. Tamoxifen and curcumin interact with cytochrom P450 (CYP) enzymes and P-glycoprotein, and the increase in the use of health supplements may result in curcumin being taken concomitantly with tamoxifen as a combination therapy to treat or prevent cancer. A single dose of tamoxifen was administered orally (9 mg x kg(-1)) with or without curcumin (0.5, 2.5 and 10 mg x kg(-1)) and intravenously (2mg x kg(-1)) with or without curcumin (2.5 and 10 mg x kg(-1)) to rats. The effects of curcumin on P-glycoprotein (P-gp) and CYP3A4 activity were also evaluated. Curcumin inhibited CYP3A4 activity with 50% inhibition concentration (IC50) values of 2.7 microM. In addition, curcumin significantly (P < 0.01 at 10 microM) enhanced the cellular accumulation of rhodamine-123 in MCF-7/ADR cells overexpressing P-gp in a concentration-dependent manner. This result suggested that curcumin significantly inhibited P-gp activity. Compared to the oral control group (given tamoxifen alone), the area under the plasma concentration-time curve (AUC(0-infinity)) and the peak plasma concentration (C(max)) of tamoxifen were significantly (P < 0.05 for 2.5 mg x kg(-1); P < 0.01 for 10 mg x kg(-1)) increased by 33.1-64.0% and 38.9-70.6%, respectively, by curcumin. Consequently, the absolute bioavailability of tamoxifen in the presence of curcumin (2.5 and 10 mg x kg(-1)) was 27.2-33.5%, which was significantly enhanced (P < 0.05 for 2.5 mg x kg(-1); P < 0.01 for 10 mg x kg(-1)) compared to that in the oral control group (20.4%). Moreover, the relative bioavailability of tamoxifen was 1.12- to 1.64-fold greater than that in the control group. Furthermore, concurrent use of curcumin significantly decreased (P < 0.05 for 10 mg x kg(-1)) the metabolite-parent AUC ratio (MR), implying that curcumin may inhibit the CYP-mediated metabolism of tamoxifen to its active metabolite, 4-hydroxytamoxifen. The enhanced bioavailability of tamoxifen by curcumin may be mainly due to inhibition of the CYP3A4-mediated metabolism of tamoxifen in the small intestine and/or in the liver and to inhibition of the P-gp efflux transporter in the small intestine rather than to reduction of renal elimination of tamoxifen, suggesting that curcumin may reduce the first-pass metabolism of tamoxifen in the small intestine and/or in the liver by inhibition of P-gp or CYP3A4 subfamily.

labelle

What you just posted says curcumin enhances the bioavailability of tamoxifen. That would be a good thing!

MomOfTwins98

That's very odd as I spoke at length to the dietician that is excellent at our cancer center as I question EVERYTHING with its relationship to Tamoxifen. She was very clear that Turmeric has no effect on Tamoxifen..I even repeated my question to her. She did say that she prefer I not take the pill form (supplement) of Turmeric but rather use the spice itself so I am doing that. She felt that the pill is not absorbed as well. She did say to always take the Turmeric with black pepper and a fat of some sort for best absorption. She has me take my other supplements at least two hours before or two hours after Tamoxifen as they can interfere so I take Tamoxifen at night (5pm) and Calcium/D in the morning (about 7am). I also asked about Magnesium - at first, a couple months ago, she suggested I avoid it and try to get it from food but i asked again as I am/was having SE and she said to give it a try but no more than 300mg/day and see how I do with it. Think she is worried about diarrhea as a SE there.

As I've found on this journey, ask 10 health care people a question and perhaps get 10 different answers. I have tried to sort through it all and take what I feel to be the best information. Its certainly not an exact science and I've read so many studies on various topics that completely contradict one another. It can be hard to sort through - guess we all just have to continue to do our best. As I told my MO when I was first diagnosed, I didn't have a single risk factor and led a very healthy and active lifestyle. His answer was "most people dont have any risk factors" - go figure

labelle

Another article from PubMed-this one is a bit easier to wade through.

Curcumin induces cell death and restores tamoxifen sensitivity in the antiestrogen-resistant breast cancer cell lines MCF-7/LCC2 and MCF-7/LCC9.

Jiang M1, Huang O, Zhang X, Xie Z, Shen A, Liu H, Geng M, Shen K.

Author information

Abstract

Curcumin, a principal component of turmeric (Curcuma longa), has potential therapeutic activities against breast cancer through multiple signaling pathways. Increasing evidence indicates that curcumin reverses chemo-resistance and sensitizes cancer cells to chemotherapy and targeted therapy in breast cancer. To date, few studies have explored its potential antiproliferation effects and resistance reversal in antiestrogen-resistant breast cancer. In this study, we therefore investigated the efficacy of curcumin alone and in combination with tamoxifen in the established antiestrogen-resistant breast cancer cell lines MCF-7/LCC2 and MCF-7/LCC9. We discovered that curcumin treatment displayed anti-proliferative and pro-apoptotic activities and induced cell cycle arrest at G2/M phase. Of note, the combination of curcumin and tamoxifen resulted in a synergistic survival inhibition in MCF-7/LCC2 and MCF-7/LCC9 cells. Moreover, we found that curcumin targeted multiple signals involved in growth maintenance and resistance acquisition in endocrine resistant cells. In our cell models, curcumin could suppress expression of pro-growth and anti-apoptosis molecules, induce inactivation of NF-κB, Src and Akt/mTOR pathways and downregulate the key epigenetic modifier EZH2. The above findings suggested that curcumin alone and combinations of curcumin with endocrine therapy may be of therapeutic benefit for endocrine-resistant breast cancer.

PMID:

23299550

[PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

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