the definitve calcium supp??!! HELP

mjcs7

Ladies, I am sure this has been covered before but bear with me, please. Does anyone know what the best source of vit D and calcium is? Iam ER/PR positive, looked at my vit D and noticed it has soybean oil base. Is this bad? I also have mets to my bones so I know I need something...just don't want to have a cuppboard full of bottles with the wrong stuff. If anyone has researched this issue, I would greatly appreciate your sharing the knowkedge!

I am reading about controversy concerning where the calcium is from, if it is toxic, can we absorb it....whew. I need help.

MJ

apium

My doctor told me calcium citrate is best.  I take the liquid form that is rather tasty.  I take Carlson's cod liver oil and get some vit D there and I also supplement with Vit D3 which is rec.  I just had my onc test my vit D levels and they are still on the low side after supplementing with 5000 units of vit D for 2 months.

My vitamin D levels must have been extremely low.  Wonder if this contributed to my cancer?  I also have bone mets, her2+. 

saluki

MJ and Apium -Maybe this will help.

I think this will clarify things for you a bit.  I was taking 1200 mg to 1500 mg daily but when my blood showed high calcium levels I backed off to 500 mg daily.  My blood calcium went back to normal levels and remained there. So, that has worked for me but I also get a good amount from diet.  Coincidentally at the same time I read that Dr Andrew Weil was revising his recommendations.

Here is Dr Weil's article followed by the Harvard Health letter.  I'm sure Dr Weil is refering to Walter Willett who is nationally recognized as a leader in this field.

_____________________
Q     
Tums for Calcium?
I have been told I should not be taking Tums as a source of calcium. Why not?
A    
Answer (Published 10/30/2006)

Tums provide calcium as calcium carbonate (chalk), which is not always easily absorbed by the body. I recommend using calcium citrate, a form that is better absorbed.

Because Tums are less expensive than calcium supplements, you may prefer to risk the absorption problem in order to keep your costs down. This is less of a concern for younger people. But as you age, the amount of acid in the stomach decreases, and acid is necessary for absorption of calcium carbonate. You'll need to take three Tums tablets per day to get 600 mg of elemental calcium.

As you may know, I recently revised my calcium recommendation downward. I made the change after reviewing two large studies conducted by the Harvard School of Public Health, which showed that calcium doesn't actually reduce the risk of osteoporosis as we once thought. I now suggest that women supplement with only 500 to 700 mg of calcium citrate in two divided doses taken with meals, for a total daily intake of 1,000-1,200 mg from all sources. You may want to reduce your supplemental calcium if you ingest high amounts of dietary calcium, such as dairy products such as milk, cheese, cottage cheese and yogurt along with other calcium fortified foods like tofu, soy milk and orange juice. In the past, I recommended supplementing with 1,200 mg daily in divided doses and 1,500 mg for postmenopausal women who were not on hormone replacement therapy.

Men need even less calcium. I now recommend 500 mg from all dietary sources and suggest that men avoid taking any supplemental calcium. High intake of this mineral is associated with an increased risk of prostate cancer. One of the Harvard studies found that men who drank two glasses of milk a day (that translates to about 1,000-1,200 mg of calcium) had twice the incidence of developing advanced prostate cancer.

The lower amounts of calcium I now recommend should be sufficient to protect bones. However, the lifestyle measures listed below can also help prevent bone loss as you get older (after age 30 both men and women begin losing bone mass slowly; this accelerates for women after menopause):

    * Exercise regularly. Make sure to engage in both weight-bearing exercise (walking, jogging or anything else you can do on your feet) and strength training for muscles.
    * Be sure to get adequate vitamin D. I now recommend 1,000 IU of vitamin D3 daily. The ultraviolet B rays of the sun trigger your skin to make vitamin D (provided you're not wearing sunscreen). We don't get much D in our diets, so if you don't get regular sun exposure, it is necessary to supplement with this vitamin.
    * Get adequate daily vitamin K (120 mcg for men, 90 mcg for women). Low intake has been linked to low bone density. You get vitamin K in broccoli, Brussels sprouts, dark green lettuce, collard greens and kale.
    * Watch your protein intake. Too much can promote calcium loss from bones.
    * Take supplemental vitamin A only in the form of beta carotene, as part of a mixed carotenoid product. Preformed vitamin A (identified on vitamin labels as "retinol" or "vitamin A palmitate") can weaken bones.
    * Cut back on caffeine and sodas: too much of either can promote calcium excretion.

Andrew Weil, M.D.
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 What you need to know about calcium

Harvard Health Letter, April 2003

Calcium is billed as the bone-building nutrient. But some experts argue that we should pay more attention to exercise and vitamin D.

Starting on your 51st birthday, current government guidelines say you’re supposed to consume 1,200 milligrams (mg) of calcium daily. At about that age, both men and women begin to experience osteoporosis, a decline in the density of bones that makes them weaker and more likely to break. In essence, your bone becomes more porous, and calcium supposedly fills in the holes.

But calcium is currently at the center of one of nutrition’s most contentious debates. The critics say there’s little evidence that high intake has more than a marginal effect on bone density and fracture prevention. They say exercise and vitamin D are neglected and more important for bone health. They also argue that dairy foods are a bad overall influence on many people’s diets because of the saturated fat, calories, and other factors. Professor Walter Willett, chair of the nutrition department at the Harvard School of Public Health and a member of the Health Letter’s editorial board, is one of the leading lights in the critical camp.

Naturally, the proponents see the evidence quite differently — and they set the government recommendations, so they’re hardly a fringe group. They say dozens of studies have shown that high calcium intake builds up bone and prevents fractures. And they cite calcium’s other possible benefits, such as modest protection against colon cancer.

So what should you do? For women, 1,200–1,500 mg of calcium daily doesn’t seem to have any drawbacks. For men, though, it may. Studies have shown a possible connection between calcium and prostate cancer. Great Britain set its daily calcium recommendation at 700 mg, which Professor Willett believes is probably closer to the amount that men should be consuming.

Perhaps the most important thing you can do is change how you think about calcium. High intake is not the surefire ticket to bone health that it has been made out to be.

If you’re still worried about getting enough calcium, supplements are inexpensive and free of the saturated fat and added calories that you’d get from dairy products. If you’re going to consume dairy products, pick low-fat and skim varieties.
Food sources

Most of the calcium in the American diet comes from dairy products. Not only do they contain a lot of the mineral, but it’s in a form that’s easy to digest and absorb. An 8-ounce serving of plain yogurt provides about 400 mg of calcium; an 8-ounce glass of milk, 300 mg; and a slice of cheddar cheese, 200 mg.

Vegetables are another food source, although figuring out how much calcium you’re actually getting is tricky. If a vegetable contains oxalic or phytic acid, then the calcium may be poorly absorbed because of the acids. For example, a cup of frozen spinach contains almost as much calcium as a cup of milk, but only a tenth as much is absorbed because of the oxalic acid.

Calcium fortification of everything from orange juice to waffles is making it easier to get a great deal of calcium through diet alone. Breakfast cereals have been fortified for a long time; three-quarters of a cup of the breakfast cereal whole-grain Total contains 1,000 mg. For a list of the calcium content of selected foods, visit our Web site at www.health.harvard.edu/health.
Supplements and vitamin pills

Calcium supplements usually come in 500- to 600-mg tablets. You don’t absorb large doses of calcium as efficiently as you do small ones. Thus, much of a 1,000-mg tablet is going to waste, although unabsorbed calcium in the gut may have benefits. Taking a regular-size pill with calcium-fortified orange juice might also be a waste.

The calcium in most supplements is either in the form of calcium carbonate or calcium citrate. Research shows that they are absorbed equally well with meals, but calcium carbonate is harder to digest than calcium citrate. People are usually advised to take calcium carbonate with or soon after a meal. Calcium citrate can be taken at any time.

Most multivitamin pills contain a relatively small amount of calcium — about 100–200 mg.
Problems with supplements

Acid rebound. Calcium carbonate may cause acid rebound: the stomach overcompensates for the high dose of calcium carbonate, which is alkaline, by churning out more acid. For that reason, people with a history of stomach ulcers are advised that they may not tolerate it and may have to switch to calcium citrate.

Constipation. Calcium supplements can have a mild binding effect but by themselves don’t usually cause serious constipation. But if you’re taking another supplement or medication that binds the stool, the addition of calcium supplements could cause a problem.

Too much calcium. Although it doesn’t happen often, some people have taken so much calcium that it causes hypercalcemia, an above-normal level of calcium in the blood. Hypercalcemia may cause nausea, vomiting, confusion, and other neurological symptoms.

Drug interactions. Large doses of calcium interfere with the absorption of a variety of drugs. You should avoid consuming large amounts of calcium — either in food or as a supplement — within 2–4 hours of taking a tetracycline or quinolone antibiotic. After taking alendronate (Fosamax), risedronate (Actonel), or another one of the bisphosphonate drugs for osteoporosis, you should wait at least 30 minutes before consuming a large amount of calcium. People taking calcium-channel blockers or beta blockers should discuss taking calcium with their doctors because it can reduce the effectiveness of these drugs.
Reading the labels

The Nutrition Facts label on food says % DV, which stands for percent Daily Value. The Daily Value for a nutrient is set by FDA regulations. It’s a single number and not the same as the Recommended Dietary Allowances (RDAs), which come from the Institute of Medicine and often vary with age and sex.

Currently, the Daily Value for calcium is 1,000 mg — the RDA for people ages 31 to 50 — not the 1,200 mg RDA for older adults. So, obviously, if you see a nutrition label that says, for example, a serving contains 20% of the DV, it contains 200 mg of calcium, not 240 mg.

The Supplement Facts label on supplements and vitamin pills is also based on the FDA’s Daily Values, not the RDAs. Although the calcium in those pills comes in several forms (calcium carbonate, calcium citrate, dicalcium phosphate), the amount of milligrams listed on the label is the amount of calcium you’re getting, not the larger compound.

Other ways to keep your bones strong
The DOs...

Exercise. Weight-bearing exercise includes any activity that pits you against gravity: not just lifting weights, but walking, climbing stairs, even dancing. It’s tremendously important to bone health and preventing fractures. Your muscles get stronger and more coordinated, which helps prevent falls. There’s also a direct effect on bone. Working muscle stimulates bone into becoming stronger. If you want to lower your risk of osteoporosis, a short, brisk walk every day might better serve the purpose than a big calcium pill.

Vitamin D. Getting enough vitamin D may be the most important variable in preventing osteoporosis. Vitamin D’s main function in the body is to aid calcium absorption. An analysis of data from the Nurses’ Health Study found that study participants who consume 500 IU of vitamin D daily are 37% less likely to have broken a hip than women who consume 140 IU. (IU stands for International Units, a measure of biological activity.) Neither total calcium nor milk consumption was associated with a lower risk for hip fracture.

The current FDA recommendation (the Daily Value) is 400 IU daily. Studies have shown that up to 50% of older Americans don’t get enough vitamin D. There are several reasons for this. The vitamin’s biologically active form is metabolized when the skin is exposed to the ultraviolet radiation in sunlight. Theoretically, sun exposure can give you all the vitamin D you need. But north of about 40 degrees latitude — the latitude of Philadelphia, Indianapolis, and Denver — the winter sunlight is too weak to produce significant amounts of vitamin D. Even in sunnier climes and times of year, older people tend to spend a lot of time indoors. Moreover, older skin is less effective in making the vitamin even when it’s exposed to sunlight. Sunscreens are another problem: they filter out much of the ultraviolet radiation that produces vitamin D.

Theoretically, you could make up for a shortage of sunshine-generated vitamin D with diet. The problem is that precious few foods contain the vitamin. For practical purposes, it’s limited to several types of saltwater fish. So decades ago, health officials in many northern countries decided to fortify foods with vitamin D. In the United States, milk — but not other dairy foods — was chosen. An 8-ounce glass of milk is supposed to contain 100 IU, although surveys have shown that the actual amount can be a great deal less.

Vitamin K. Your bones also need vitamin K, which is found in green, leafy vegetables.

... and the DON’Ts

Caffeine. If you’ve got a four-or-more cups-a-day coffee habit, cut back for the sake of your bones. High levels of caffeine may stimulate calcium excretion.

Protein. High levels of protein, especially animal protein, alter blood chemistry so calcium leaches out of your bones. But there is no cutoff here, just a general word of caution.

Vitamin A. Several studies have shown a correlation between high vitamin A intake and fracture risk. Some experts say it’s time to stop fortifying milk and breakfast cereal with vitamin A, because the population is getting older and the prevalence of osteoporosis is increasing. Meanwhile, you should avoid multivitamins that contain 10,000 IU of vitamin A, which is twice the recommended daily intake of 5,000 IU — and many experts think that’s too much. Bear in mind that the beta carotene in carrots and other vegetables is not a problem. It is far less biologically active than retinol, the form of vitamin A in many vitamin pills and fortified foods.

Tips for increasing your vitamin D intake

Eat more swordfish, bluefish, salmon, mackerel, or sardines. But swordfish and some species of mackerel are on the list of fish with high mercury levels, so don’t go overboard.

Take a calcium supplement that includes vitamin D. Many brands combine calcium with 200–400 IU of vitamin D.

Take a multivitamin. Multivitamins are a safety net for many nutrients that might otherwise fall through the cracks. Most brands contain 400 IU of vitamin D.

Spend more time outdoors. This is a balancing act, because you don’t want to risk skin cancer in pursuit of more vitamin D production.

apium

Thank you saluki for sharing the info.  Good info.

mjcs7

Saluki,

THANK YOU X A MILLIOIN!! I need to know how to proceed and this information is very helpful.

MJ

Anonymous

Susie, as usual, YOU ARE A GENIUS!  Oh, and an angel.

I have a list of foods with calcium, but this also helps MUCHO!  And, now I'm gonna copy it and then forget what the heck I did with it.  Oh, I know....put it on fridge (if I can find room..have pics of grandbabies, my babies, animals etc. on it).

Shirley

Anonymous

Hmmmm...have an idea.  I could take a pic of my fridge with all the pics on it, enlarge it a bit, and hang it on the fridge and it would take up less space than "magneting" all the pics on it. 

cats_love_me

If your going to be taking all your recommend calcium, it can cause constipation.  Depending if you are on a chemo, or anti-nasea meds, some cause constipation as well, so for some it could be a double whammy and cause you problems.   

If you take your calcium w/   magnesium, that solves the constipation issue,  due to the calcium.  I will warn you.  Don't just jump in w. the recommended amount of magnesium all at once, as it can cause diarea. The recommended amount of magnesium is 400mg/day.  Magnesium is also great for the muscles in getting them to relax. 

 So, slowly introduce your magnesium.  Start with 100 or 200 mg a day for a few days, before bringing your dosage up to the 400mg along w/ your calcium. 

Don't forget about the advice about taking your suppliment, or calcium rick foods scattered thru out the day.  As you body can only absorb so much at a time. 

Connie 

msannie57

apium--Doesn't cod liver oil have lots of Vitamin A in it?  I don't know about that particular brand--are you taking that rather than fish oil?  Just curious--I was always threatened with cod liver oil as a child!

Rosemary44

Remember ...I'm just the messenger:

Chocolate linked to weaker bones

http://www.foodproductiondaily.com/news/ng.asp?n=82549-osteoporosis-flavonols

Anonymous

Rosemary, I just want to tell these "researchers" to SHUT UP ALREADY!!!!!!!  I'm not eating chocolate everyday cuz I don't have any.  But darn!

Shirley

Anonymous

Rosemary, I just want to tell these "researchers" to SHUT UP ALREADY!!!!!!!  I'm not eating chocolate everyday cuz I don't have any.  But darn!

Shirley

Blundin2005

Rosemary.....OMG!....say it isn't true! 

I'll re read this again when I'm calmer....

No...they can't take away my chocolate!!! .... and yet the FDA approved cloned animals for the food supply!!!  This world is going to hell in a hand basket I tell you.

But thanks....as always...for your attention in our best interests.

Rosemary44

I know, I know.  I was actually munching a piece of chocolate as I was reading the alert.  I always use a piece of chocolate for the fat content in it when I take D.   Does this mean no chocolate ice cream either? 

I saw that about cloned meats.  If anyone thinks the FDA is working for our good, this is proof positive who they're actually working for.  And they're proud of it.

Anonymous

"I saw that about cloned meats.  If anyone thinks the FDA is working for our good, this is proof positive who they're actually working for.  And they're proud of it."

Whoever thought the FDA is working for our good?  Hell, some of our imports are rejected because of pesticides and hormones.  And our country, a leading country, allows it's people to eat this crap?

And look at al the meds that are MORE harmful than originally thought.

The FDA is working for the "man."  The RICH man!

Shirley

I think we should start our own commune and grow our own fruits, veggies, cows, and so forth.  Hey, we could start our own country!

Blundin2005

Rosemary--It's not over until the fat lady sings...we have research to do on this.  I have no intention whatsoever to discontinue fondente gelato...period!

Shirley--good idea a new country...not as easy as it sounds considering the Boston Tea Party started in this manner, but WTH, stranger things have happened.   The commune idea played out in the 60's and I'm old enough to remember how to....garden, compost, recycle?  Not such a bad idea.  Our problems in the US were exponential when cocaine became the drug of choice on Wall Street....delusions of grandeur....they should have stayed with pot....at least they'd have been more interested in the quality of food issues....but no....they needed to run fast, jump high and be king of the mountain....at any cost.

Everything has a price.  

Anonymous

"Shirley--good idea a new country...not as easy as it sounds..."

We can dream, right?  LOL  Besides, I'm too old and certainly don't have the energy to start a new country.    Thus, I guess we'll have to work our arses off and try to find the best foods available.  Finding those foods also "has a price." 

Shirley

PS  Can we really trust the word "organic?" 

Rosemary44

Foods truly organic?  I doubt it.  Anytime you see the words "soy lecithin" there goes that organic term...  Right down the drain.  But we aren't suppose to know that. 

I just penned a letter this morning asking a company who makes "organic" ice cream about why they are using soy lecithin in the chocolate coating?  I'm sure I'll get a letter back with lots of words on paper, all saying nothing.  I won't miss the chocolate, look what's in it.

"Usually, an emulsifying agent such as soya lecithin is added, though a few manufacturers prefer to exclude this ingredient for purity reasons and to remain GMO-free (*Soya is a heavily genetically modified crop), sometimes at the cost of a perfectly smooth texture. Some manufacturers are now using PGPR, an artificial emulsifier derived from castor oil that allows them to reduce the amount of cocoa butter while maintaining the same mouthfeel."

*Tell me about it.  I don't mind lumpy chocolate.

Blundin2005

Hi .....

....it's about the chocolate

Rosemary--I told you I would look deep into this .... please take a peek here www.chcolatealchemy.com

We can make our own!  and they tell us how on this site.....we can leave the good things in?

A friend recently gave me a gift of Dolfin chocolate...a good friend.  

Best wishes to all....as always 

Rosemary44

Marilyn,

I don't know if we'd have to go that far, to make our own because  I can find dark chocolate on the net without soy but this is about our bones.  Bubbly had a good idea just drink a glass of milk with it. I can do that. 

Blundin2005

Thank Rosemary....and Bubbly.

The site was fun to read and tempting...but the prices for the equipment...OMG!...a little too rich for my blood.  Althoughhhhh, I didn't amortize the cost over time and compare it to the cost to buy chocolate.  I'm only half kidding here. 

Seriously though, I'm concerned for my bones in the long term.  My personal history of arthritis, hypo thyroid and now the AI for BC....well, I'll tell ya'....I'm very concerned.  I'll do my best and that's all I can do. 

I get the results of the labs back on Friday...cal, mag, D etc.  It was interesting too that the national health system did not cover the cost of the lab for D...I needed to pay...30 euros.