Need advice on dating issues

nowheregirl

As some of you may know, I'm a divorcee and have been single for over 3 years since I broke up with my ex b/f. Being too busy and having to work too long hours don't bring any opportunities to me to meet a new guy. So I decided to try online dating and joined one of the major dating services a couple of months ago.

I've met some guys who looked nice. Oddly none of them are Japanese. I'm not in love with any... yet, just enjoying to exchange emails on the regular basis. We're currently somewhere between just acquaintances and friends. Well... with two of them, somewhere between friends and close friends. But the closer we become, the guiltier I feel because I haven't told them anything about this stinky disease. I know that if they left me just because I had cancer, then they shouldn't be the ones that I would need in my life. But it still seems so hard for me to "come out". I'm afraid I will lose them even before we get to know better.

Actually it's not cancer that makes it too hard. It's the fact that my breasts are lopsided, that there's NO sensation at all but lots scars in my bad breast, that I've completely lost my libido ever since I started taking Tamoxifen and the Lupron shot. BC is such a cruel disease.
How can I tell them I'm kind of retired from being a woman?

When and how should I tell them? One of them is planning a holiday to Japan sometime in November and he wants to spend a day or two with me. One of them lives in Japan and may drop by sometime during his summer vacation. I know it would be fair to tell them soon but I don't want to spend the rest of my life alone. Any advice woulld be highly appreciated.

Hugs,

Jorf

Fumi,

I can't tell you anything about introducing an illness or a scarred, uneven chest to someone but....

First of all - it sure doesn't sound like you're retired from being a woman. As the saying goes, "The greatest cure for low libido in women is a new partner."

Second, this whole dating thing, especially on line, has completely changed people's expectations of the early part of a relationship. Used to be that people would meet somehow or another and get to know each other and sometimes there would be a "spark" on first glance and sometimes the "spark" would grow. There wasn't a "rule" that you had to have sex by the third date.

You haven't even met these guys. I don't think you owe them to tell them that you've had a disease before you know whether or not you even like the guy, he likes you, and there's any chance in the world - despite the breast - that you would want to bare your body to him. There's no rule that everything has to be said before you you even meet.

I have a good friend who married a man she meet on line. (I actually officiated at their wedding!) She had a 2 date rule - never base your long-lasting opinion on someone until after the second date. She also suggests not getting involved in long, drawn out e-mail, telephone communications. Meet as soon as you can. It sounds like good advice.

I meet my husband (16 years ago yesterday) via a personal ad. We did 2 letters and maybe as many phone calls before we met. There wasn't a ton of spark (at least on my side) but it grew.

Anyway, I guess I'm saying to try to "normalize" the on-line dating thing as much as is possible...and to give yourself a break.

Do let us know what happens!

Jorf

Fitztwins

Oh honey. First you don't have to bring it up for a while.

When I met my husband (yes I was divorced too), we both had secrets in our closets. Mine was 20K in debt (thank you ex-husband) and his was herpes.

When he told me about the herpes I could have cut and run. This is something that would bother some folks. But I didn't neither did he. It showed that we both have character and compassion to look beyond.

I would have missed a great guy if I let that stand in my way.

What I am saying is, when you met one of these men, tell them when you are ready. If they cut and run, they are not worth it! Most men dont care. The ones who do, you don't want anyways.

The libio will get better with time. You have to get active again.

Good luck!!

Janis

Sierra

Hi Fumi:

Pretty Lady
I do understand your feelings

butwould not tell them
at this point/up to you

E mail me if you want further details

Janet: Good for you!


Wishing you the best

You deserve it!

Hugs )

Go for this..
meet them and have a lovely time

PuppyFive

{{Dear Sister}}


{{Fumi}} You will "KNOW"
Love, Puppy

djd

Fumi,

I DON'T think that being a BC survivor is something you are required to disclose as a courtesy! It's just one part of your history that has shaped your personality and outlook on life.

But what do I know? I've had the occasional friendship with men over the last few years, but no romantic relationship post-BC. I don't hesitate to talk about my BC history, but it's hard to imagine the scenario of me telling or showing a new guy the non-reconstructed mastectomy side of my chest. The word "gnarly" comes to mind

Now that I think about it, I guess I've just given up on romance.

I wish I had an answer for you, my friend. But I think you will know when it feels right. You don't owe anyone an explanation until you are ready.

hugs,

roseg

I think I'd wait and see how it goes.
As many have said, they've probably got their own skeletons in the closet as well.

I think your libido will perk up if you're interested in somebody. However certain body parts may be a bit rusty. If you think it might come to anything intimate I'd be sure and have some lubricant around -- although on a first meet like this it's hard to tell.

It's hard to me to know about these intimacy things. I came of age in the 1970s and things were different -- think Pat Benatar and "another notch on the lipstick case."

Maria_C_

The only thing I can say is
don't stress with what has not happening already
neither is about to happen now.
Breathe in, breathe out and go with the flow,
you haven't met them in person yet... so...
Yes, we understand what can come to mind but,
each thing at its time; like others said,
I'm sure when time is right for you, you will know it
whether if that will be tomorrow, or in days, or months...
then is not an obligation that you open all "your book"
if you're just starting to met people ...
everyone has "secrets"
and some certainly are not to be shared with people
that we do not know or do not feel comfortable with.

Best of luck!!!
.

nowheregirl

Thanks for your wisdom everyone. I really appreciate your taking time to give me advice.

Believe me, I have never ever hesitated talking about my cancer ordeal. I have always been so open about it or anything else. I still would talk about it as if it was a bad cold or something like that if it was not someone who I met on the dating site or who I knew I'd fall in love with. What makes it so hard is that the dating service is offer you an opportunity to meet the right person. It's totally different than when you meet new people elsewhere. When you meet strangers, do you always expect them to be your soulmate? I know you don't neither do I.

On the dating site, everyone expects to come across the right person because that's the way it's expected to work. It's like choosing the right thing from the showcase. You would pay a lot of attention to avoid the likelihood of getting a defective thing. I'm not saying here that I am defective. What I mean is that I hide secrets in my closet because I want someone to be caught in a trap and am waiting until it's too late to get out of there, which makes me feel so very guilty. Obviously this part of me wants to be honest. I'm just not used to not being open. But another part of me does whisper into my ears that I shouldn't be too honest and open otherwise I'll miss out on the opportunities.

Maybe not being able to meet them in person (because they don't live in Japan or lives so far away from my place) makes it harder to see when the right time is. I'll just have to sit back and relax for a while and see how this pans out.

I just didn't know it'd be this hard to have secrets. *sigh*


Thanks again for all your inputs.

Hugs,

jdash

Fumi
I posted the same thing months ago- i am widowed and i am divorced and i had dbl mast with reconstruction last yr
i was so worried when i started dating on how and when i would tell someone i had bc i met a guy and i didnt say anything to him for probably the first four dates we really hit it off and after that it just seemed like something i needed to do- well he didnt run and we are still dating 3 months later and i have never been happier i didnt think life could ever get this good again!!
i knew if i ever got involved again it would have to be with someone very special and i met that "special" guy and guess what??- he thinks he is the lucky one please dont let this disease ever define you - we are still the same women we were before - just because our bodies may look a bit different we have grown in some many ways - we have learned the precious gift of life and have sooo much to give in a relationship - maybe more than before our dx!!!
never stop believing it will happen and one day i promise it will - when its the right person all the things we worry so much about seem to work themselves out - it did for me : )))
julia

soccermom

This is exactly what I came on to post about today, so I will just join in here.
I am having my first date in about an hour with an on-line match, and I haven't dated at all since my ordeal with bc and my 2nd husband walking out on me in the middle of the whole thing. Dx 10/03 and he walked 7/04...
sooo I had a lot of healing to do. NOw I feel ready, but I was seriously considering the same issues..like feeling guilty for not saying anything...
thinking if I put it out there before we meet that will weed out the jerks like my ex right away! I mean I'm so paranoid I almost want to do a full background check on them, so its only fair that I disclose too.
this is very confusing. Would love to hear from someone who did it that way..ie put it out there before meeting, and find out what happened.
My reconstruction is pretty natural so I can "pass" with clothes on and without clothes in dim light, esp once I finish touching up the nipple ith a little tatooing (skin graft).
BUt I don't want to go thru what I went thru before..loosing a man because of bc, and worse yet, wasting time with one who will freak out about it!!

HHeeelllpp!

nosurrender

I just love Julia's story!

Fumi and Soccermom, there is no reason to tell a date about your bc before you meet him - or even on the first date. You wouldn't tell them about other medical problems on a first date would you?

Don't feel like you are hiding something because you are not. It is a very personal ordeal that you went through and when you are ready and feel that you can trust this person with something so personal, then the time is right.

I have had both experiences.

The first man I dated after cancer knew all along. He didn't make a big issue of it because he was a cancer survivor also.

Then I dated another man who I was upfront with beforhand and he acted like he had some insider knowledge about me that made him think he could take advantage of me. I was totally turned off.

This winter, right before I was re-dx'd I went on another date and didn't say a word. It was so liberating. I felt like a cancer free person- like the old person I used to be. And I didn't feel exposed like I had when I had told a man beforehand.

But then I got re-dx'd and let the romance fizzle out. We never got past the second date but I was not about to tell him that not only had I had cancer once, but I had it again! Too much info too soon.

There ARE men out there who see us for who we are and treasure us as women. We just have to find them and the only way to do that is to separate the men from the boys.

It isn't easy, but your heart is on the line. THAT needs protecting more than any scars or lack of hair does.

TAKE CARE OF YOU FIRST. Let yourself see how wonderful you really are inside and then the cancer doesn't seem like such a looming presence. Because it isn't. When compared to the person you have become it can't come close.

Good luck!!

Larry44

I've struggled with the same kind of issue for a long time. I have a lower leg neuropathy since I was 16, I’m 62 now, which makes me walk strangely. I subscribed to dating services several times and had really negative reactions from several of the women I met. I talked to my psychologist about it and he advised that I did not need to disclose this disease during the phone call during which the date was arranged. However, it is readily apparent when you meet me, I’m now using two canes to walk. My solution to the dilemma was to stop dating, I haven’t had a date in over 20 years, and I’ve never been married.

I suppose that the current technology of meeting people through internet sites would work better for me than the dating services did as one could get to know the other person somewhat through email and instant messages before meeting. I could foresee several exchanges and then, if it seemed like we really clicked, tell her about my neuropathy before we met the first time. If I did go on a date with a woman now, I would feel no need to tell her about my breast cancer, or my prostate cancer, during the first few dates.

I would not expect a woman to disclose her entire medical history during the first few dates. I’ve never dated a woman who told me that she had breast cancer but I really think that if I liked her it would not make a difference. However, if she waited a long time, say 6 months to a year to tell me I would seriously question how close she was to me.

wakebrat7

Hi:

I would say that you should wait until you meet these people and then, if a relationship develops and it looks like it is going somewhere, then tell them the truth.

I don't think you should have to tell anybody your business if they are just online friends. You do not owe anybody anything. It does not mean your not honest. It just means that you have a right to tell who you think deserves to know.

I have a lop-sided boob, I look a mess, but you know what, I met a wonderful man after my treatment, and he loves me for me.

Do not trip on anything right now. Just be happy and be patient. I'm tell you, if you meet the right one, your sex drive will come back. I didn't think mine would and its better than ever.

Good luck,
Lillie

Shirlann

Hi dear precious Fumi,

I have a friend who is with EHarmony.com and she is older, really older, about 70. She just wrote that she had survived breast cancer and was unable to have "regular sex" because she had such severe vaginitis. Well, she was inundated with men who were diabetic or prostate cancer survivors and she honestly felt they were thrilled to meet someone that "their" performance would not affect.

She was truly astonished, her replies tripled. So while this current group is sorta already set to meet you, if you decide to, go ahead and just say what you feel right now and talk about the BC, if this current group doesn't fill the bill so to speak, and you might be stunned. Women aren't the only ones who get cancer.

Anyway, anyone as beautiful as you are, both inside and out, will have no problems with finding a wonderful man to spend your life with.

Hugs, Shirl

kater

So I'm still wondering where there is speed dating for 49 and plus!

nosurrender

I have a good friend who met her husband on E-Harmony.
And I know someone else who met her husband on Match.
The only people I have ever met online are already married!

kater

someone mentioned herpes...i just read that herpes might be helping ovarian cancer victims as part of a vaccine....so you never know about the silver lining in problems!

iodine

I'm with Jorf, the online dating thing with all the information given out about each other long before you meet is backward to me.

What do people have to talk about when you DO meet?

I like what she had to say about meeting and seeing if you like each other enough to meet again.

gwenn

I think what you are feeling is very normal. I would say that you should share your history when your ready to. Don't feel presured into it. Somewhere out there is some amazing man who is going to sweep you off your feet and not care at all about your "health Issues". This person you'll meet is going to look at these issues as events and incidents that make you strong and make you who you are today.

Diana_B

Hi Fumi,



Breast cancer is a very deep experience, YOUR deep experience, that I imagine has touched you in profound ways. I think if you "disclose" to someone you don't know well, as if it's just a fact instead of an experience, you'll do yourself a disservice. You're not a profile or a set of characteristics, you're a person whose mind, heart and body have undergone something. I wouldn't share it unless the moment is right for you, not him (and you'd only be guessing about him anyway). I would say too: is he worthy of this communication?



Men can be so surprising and varied as well. A few years ago I was talking to this very sweet guy who wanted a woman he thought was "out of his league". Then she got ill and so he felt he had an "in". It might sound a bit offensive but it wasn't - he said it with such a boyish sense of adventure, and he had such humility about himself.



My boyfriend and I met before my diagnosis, but started going out after. The thing is, he's not squeamish, and that's really key. I find people who've dealt with things in their own life tend not to be as squeamish.



Last but not least, I remember another male friend told me that he would take his cue from me about the mastectomy - that he could tolerate it if I could tolerate it.



So, just a few more thoughts to add to the discussion.



Best regards and best of luck,

Darya

Anonymous

I just got to reading this Fumi and wanted to tell you that you are not retired from being a woman!!  Far from it!!  You just haven't had someone stimulate your brain or body! The right guy will come along and if the desire is in the heart and mind the body will follow. 

I was afraid of that since I dated and had zip feelings and then I met someone special and couldn't believe that I had not lost that Lovin' Feelin' ...

KPM

Me, too; me,too; me too!  I went through BC and a divorce in the same year, reconstruction a year after Dx (10 months ago).  I've met a few men on the online dating sites and struggled with the "when to tell" issue.  The first two, I told during our first in person date -- it's such a part of my history and who I am now, it came up quite naturally.  Both bailed soon after --of course they don't say it's the cancer history, but you can tell.  But I felt guilty about keeping it to myself too long, what to do?  A few weeks ago, I met a man online and we really clicked.  We met for dinner and it was great, went to a sports event a few days later and it was even better.  That night, I told him.  He was a little rocked and I wasn't sure what would happen, but it was more out of concern for me than for himself.  We've gone out now several more times and talked about it again last night -- he now sees it as I do -- just something that happened to me, not who I am.  Of course, he hasn't seen the results yet, but I have feeling that will be okay, too.  Bottom line -- tell when you think it's right, let the losers who aren't interested in you once they know go (with gratitude you've been spared them) and believe that there are real men out there who are capable of seeing beyond your medical reality.  Oh, and listen to the ladies on this board who say you're not retired from womanhood.  Your libido may be napping, but trust me, it's not dead.  The right guy can wake her up...!  Good luck, sister.

nowheregirl

Sorry for buming up such an old post of mine but just thought I would give you some update.

It's been almost half a year since I joined that dating site. Obvisouly I have lost contact with most of guys I met there. But believe it or not, those two I mentioned in my first post are still in touch. One of them is originally from Canada but have lived here in Japan for 5 years now and he has a permanent residency status although we have only talked in the emails. (But we have exchanged our home addies!)

The other guy is an Aussie living in Ozland. He has been on holidays since two weeks ago and guess what? It's my country that he is visiting! He is now taking a tour to the southern part of Japan and will drop by here next Sunday. Yep we will be meeting in the flesh! Of course I haven't told him anything about my cancer ordeal and actually am getting rather nervous than excited. He has only seen a picture of myself that was taken before I got this disease, which means that he doesn't know I have become a giant Zilla! I feel like I am seeing him just to be a disappointment to him. But anyhow, I won't make up an excuse to stand him up. I will try to be optimistic and enjoy meeting with him. Please keep your fingers crossed for me!

Hugs,

Fumi

Anonymous

Fumi...That is excellent news!!! I'm wondering if you think that you look so radically different from that earlier pic that you might want to "warn" the guy though, mainly to avoid receiving a startled reaction and immediately assuming that it was due to your being unattractive to him (rather than he's just really surprised)? Now that I have some online dating experience, I'm hearing that one of the things everyone (men and women) dislike is feeling deceived by photos or 'little white lies' about issues such as age and looks. Apparently, it's pretty common too....like men will claim to be tall or athletic or good-looking and end up, in person, to be 5'2", pot-bellied and bald (not that WE, here at bc.org, have anything against BALD!! ). And lots of women, from what I'm hearing from the guys, claim to be small, slim and young and end up being big-boned, overweight and in their late 40s (as opposed to the '30-ish' they claim). So, perhaps you should just write a little disclaimer to your expected suitor and advise him that you now look 'healthier' and 'more feminine' than in your earlier picture? That way, he knows that you'll look a bit different and you can feel completely comfortable looking like your genuinely healthy, feminine self!

Whatever you do, Fumi, I know that it will be fine and he'll love you like we do! I say go get a spa treatment, buy some new shoes and have yourself a rockin' time!!! And be sure to report back, okay?!

~Marin

snowyday

Hello Fumi:  Your doing great at least your trying and talking to men I just dumped the guy I was seeing when I found out I didn't even give him a chance to help and wouldn't let him visit after numerous requests.  I just wanted and still want to consentrate on myself not a partner and all the issues that brings with it. 

So you are doing great compared to me.  You know what, when he sees you he might not be surprised at all, but if your really nervous about him seeing you, you might as well give him warning.  I'm not sure I'd like a surprise like that, it could make him really awkward so what the heck be honest and let the chips fall where they may. If he truly likes you it won't matter. Good luck

nowheregirl

Thanks for the advice, Marin and Pearl. Yeah it stinks when people deliberately lie about what they look like etc. Apparently this Aussie guy likes to take pictures and have sent me several of himself, like the one in which he was being silly holding a packet of Timtam biscuit in his arms. I guess he has been honest so have I except that I haven't told him about BC. I only sent one old picture of myself because I didn't have any other at that time. Just recently I took some pictures when Donna (djd) was here and sent one that we took in one of those silly photo booths. The problem is that I look too younger and nicer in it than I actually am. I warned and told him that I wouldn't look as nice and that I am just a boring old chick. Fortunately he didn't seem to care, just said that I had been most interesting and fun to talk to. Maybe he has a weird taste in gals or wasn't wearing glasses when he saw the pix!

        

Hugs,

Fumi

Anonymous

Now Fumi...listen up, girlfriend....the advice was NOT to denigrate and put yourself down! You are a beautiful woman with delicate features and the twinkliest eyes I've ever seen (yes, I did look at all of those pictures of you and djd!) and you MUST begin to see that!!! It's the truth! It's the reality! And that's all I was suggesting you share, in the event that there was a HUGE difference between pic & reality. As for the BC, well that's none of his business altogether. Anyway, girl, you'd better put on your own glasses and, for freakin' sake, give yourself a break!!!!

~Marin

Anonymous

Nonsense, Fumi! You're beautiful inside and out! The guy is lucky to meet you and I'm sure he'll realize it, too )



I hope you have a great time!

nosurrender

Fumi, I agree with Felicia! You are beautiful!!! And not only on the outside- but your heart is the most gorgeous thing!

I will tell you  two of my experiences...

One man I met online wanted me to meet him. I picked a nice neutral place that would be safe.... I was tempted to suggest the lobby of the police station but settled for an outdoor cafe.  My picture that he had seen was me with straight hair because it was taken in the winter and I blow out my hair in the winter. But this was a hot as blazes humid day so I let my hair dry naturally, which is really curly. However, that doesn't change how I look!

A man comes in and he walks right up to me and tells me he is the one I am supposed to be meeting. Fumi, he didn't look ANYTHING like the photo he had posted. In fact, I think he used the fake photos that new wallets have in them. This guy was nothing at all like I expected. But I thought I would be gracious and give him a chance and the first thing he said to me was, " So typical. You women always look SOOO different from the picture you post. You don't look like your profile at all!"

Back at ya bub! 

The second meeting was more serious. We had pmd for a long time before meeting. That can be a bad thing because you have nothing to talk about on your first date. All that getting to know you stuff is over and done with.

I really liked this guy and was anxious to meet him. When I met him at another neutral place he looked like his photo- a bit shorter than expected but that doesn't bother me. But his body language was so bizzar! Do you get the show Seinfeld in Japan? Remember the episode about "close talkers?" That is what he was. He moves up to about one inch from my face to talk! It was very uncomfortable!! And then to top it off he did this thing with his eyebrow. Everytime he made a point his eyebrow shot up so high I swear it disappeared into his hair line!

Finally it was time to have dinner and I am watching this eyebrow do its thing and he is leaning WAAAY too close to talk to me and I just said it-

I told him- "Look, we know each other through emails for almost a year now. You are freaking me out with your eyebrow and your close talking!"

He laughed! He then said "OOPS. That is a bad habit of mine when I get nervous. Thanks for mentioning it. I will try to calm down." And the eyebrow went back into place and we went on to have a great time.

So even though you get to know the person well before your first date and it takes away a lot of the getting to know you stuff- I was also comfortable enough to tell him how his body language was affecting me. He was used to  my sense of humor by then anyway.

The only thing he had a hard time with me about was my driving. He wasn't from NY and New Yorkers drive fast because if we don't we get run over. After driving for about ten minutes we reached a stop light and he told me I drive like "Mario Andretti with a bottle of Red Bull between my knees"

I thought that was pretty funny too.

The moral of my two encounters is- just have fun with it. Enjoy the moment and see what happens. Things could work out!

I know one couple who got married through eharmony and I have just been invited to another eharmony wedding.

You never know! Be yourself- because YOU are pretty darn terrific!!

Love,

g 

djd

Z,

I hate that you are having such doubts about yourself!  I had only seen the old picture of you and remember when I stepped out of baggage claim and instantly recognized you?   That's because "you" shine through the changes in hair length, waist size, laugh lines, etc.

The picture from our little photo booth adventure does NOT make you look younger than in person!

You know what I have marvelled about with everyone who asks me about meeting my "internet friend" in Japan?  It's that I felt like we had known eachother all of our lives.  Everything that I had learned about you from occasional emails was so "true" that I felt totally comfortable with you - even when we couldn't quite understand eachother

I will always chuckle fondly when I remember you asking me if I "had my whole family in that huge suitcase" and how you laughed everytime I pulled out my chapstick!  And how we were trying to topple eachother when we were bound in the Kimono outfits!

My point is this - you are who you are.  There is no one who is too good for you on this planet - period!   Just be yourself and find out if the Aussie guy is worth YOUR time, my friend!

xo,

Gaijin-illa