Soy again. The whole nasty story:

Rosemary44

This is not the first time where I've read that the way we process soy leaves a lot to be desired.Asians process it in a totally different manner that leaves most of the nutrients in there.


Whole Soy Story: The Dark Side of America's Favorite Health Food

http://www.mothering.com/10-0-0/html/10-6-0/soy-story.shtml

Rosemary44

A new link to the story:

http://www.mothering.com/articles/growing_child/food/soy_story.html

NPat

Rosemary,
The article was interesting! My onc says our food is killing us... along with the fertilizer, insecticide, hormones, plastics... He also said that no politician will touch the story because of the financial strings attached to use of these products.
Pat

Rosemary44

Pat,

Your onc is so right. I don't even know why we have the EPA anymore. What does that agency do besides allowing a host of poisons to infect our fish and meat?

Every time I see the safe handling warnings, I laugh, we can't touch this stuff but it's ok to eat it.

Well I want the head of the EPA over for dinner. My menu will include all of the known poisons in the item being served, in small print, of course.

Mena

Hi ladies -- Very interesting reading. I don't know about you guys, but I am forbidden ANY soy products due to my er+ status/mets. Soy mimics estrogen in the body and my onc does not want me to ingest it in any form. Have any of you had similar instructions from your oncs?

filmfestgirl

It's not just soy that has phytoestrogens; flaxseed, grains, fruit, nuts, and seeds are all on the list too. Avoiding all of these would lead to a very unbalanced diet. Everything in moderation -- stay away from the supplements, and don't overdo any one food.


Here's another article on the topic:

Phytoestrogens May Not Prevent Breast Cancer

http://my.webmd.com/content/article/81/96999.htm

Rosemary44

A side note:



Yes, flaxseed has lignans which are a phytoestrogen but the researchers are saying they work in the same manner as tomoxifen does, as a blocker:



"Lignans are a type of natural plant chemical. This chemical is located within the cell of the flaxseed. When you eat ground flax, the digestive process works on the lignans to convert them into potent, hormone-like substances. These are known as phytoestrogenic (phyto=plants) compounds.



Research has indicated that those people who eat a diet high in lignans have a low incidence of breast, colon and prostrate cancers. Scientists are concluding that the chemical release of these phytoestrogenic compounds are able to block the action of hormone sensitive cancers."



If anyone is looking for a safer way to get omega 3, they sell flaxseed cereals and flaxseed oil with or without the lignans.



The flaxseed muffin study:



http://www.barleans.com/literature/117-slowtumorgrowth.html

saluki

Thanks Rosemary,
A very informative article. I never paid much attention to the processing aspect of soy products. I don't touch phyto-estrogens. And yes I've gotten that warning from all my docs.----They didn't have to tell me that one.
About year before my dx of breast cancer I was taking a soy supplement that was touted by that actress that played Martha Stewart. She said it helped with perimenipause symptoms.
Well from te time I started taking it my breasts started to actually hurt. They hurt until I discontinued it months later. Shortly afterwards I felt the lump and after delay the BC dx. Careful of what I put in this mouth. You bet!

Actually about 15 yrs earlier, I took a womens multivitamin from
a well repected company in the nutritional world.
But I did not dissect every component as I do now and it contained something called Vitex (aka chaste tree). Well
supposedly this helps with PMS, menopausal symptoms etc.
by stimulating and normalizing pituitary function. Well
damm it- although it may tell the body to make less estrogen
it also increases progesterone. I'm ER/PR+. Certainly didn't need that hiding in my multi. I was lucky that go around. Just fibroadenomas and cysts which were taken out.
But here 14 years later and the bc dx. I scour everything
that may effect the hormones- even the b vitamins. And although I can't control what I don't know, and have yet to find out; I'm greatful for articles like this that help me make more knowledgable decisions and give a bit of control back to my life.

Only a little quibble Rosemary- about Dr Weil. He has been
very cautionary about soy and is very middle of the road
only recommending a serving a day. (I don't know if that has always been his stance.

Got to run---Time for the Cowboys. I route for the cowboys when the eagles aren't playing-- Happy thanksgiving!

Rosemary44

Saluki,



The year before I was dx'd I ate soy like there was no tomorrow. I even drank soy milk. I was going on this healthy eating kick. No meat, no toxic fish, only drinking filtered water, and later after joining this group, I found out about the soy warnings and now about how its being processed. It's a wonder I'm still alive.



I wish I had an Onc that warned me about anything. I feel sorry for his other patients. I know better and look up everything. He's only good for monitoring.

Rosemary44

A story on point:



Rocket fuel chemical found in organic milk in Maryland



http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=541&e=13&u=/ap/20041201/ap_on_he_me/perchlorate_contamination

rrlover

If not soy then what? As a newly dx member I am trying to change my diet. If animal proteins, dairy products and soy are ruled out, does that leave only beans and vege's that provide the protein we need?
Jane H

Rosemary44

Jane,

Does your grocery story sell chickens without the injected hormones? Sanderson Farms doesn't inject. I look for organic meat, but so far I can't find any being sold near where I live.

This is not easy to do, but I'm just trying to limit my intake of injected foods where I can.

I'm sure no one told you to stay away from vitamin B1, (thiamin) at least till they remove your tumor. Look at the side panels of cereals and pasta, some are heavily fortified with it. Good luck to you.

Rosemary

Rosemary44

Soy again in the news,

http://www.newswise.com/articles/view/518664/?sc=rsmn

Soy Component Associated with Abnormal Ovary and Egg Development in Mice.
////
And they're just finding this out?????

RobinTN

Rosemary
may I ask you a ? you seem so knowledable about vitamins.
If the cancer is triple positive does this effect hormone growth if taking vitamin b6?My husband has found a sublingual b6 that is supposed to increase energy.and wanted to know your thoughts.I have an appoint with my onc thursday and will ask him also but want to be prepared with info before then.
Thank you in advance for taking the time to answer my ?

Rosemary44

B6 seems to be good for us:

http://www.news.harvard.edu/gazette/2005/05.05/11-cancer.html

B1 was researched to be the vitamin that enhanced the growth of tumors.

inspiewriter

Well, I've been taking a lot of B-6 my entire adult life--it is very good at reducing water retention. The B vitamins work better when taken with other B's-- what is this about B-1 enhancing tumor growth?

Rosemary44

Robin,

You have to go over to the vitamin thread, the B1 story is posted there. I find if I miss taking my B6, my hand begins to hurt in a strange way. It must be doing something good.

Rosemary44

KFC uses soybean oil. I didn't know that.

http://www.kfc.com/about/pressreleases/103006.asp

mkl48

Rosemary,

According to information on this site soybean oil is not a problem. read through the Oct ,05 conference on CAM and supplements.Beth

juliebb

I didn't know how harmful soy was until I went on a hunch after giving my daughter soy infant formula for an entire year. I wanted to strangle her pediatrician. He said there is controversy but that they still go by the American Academy of Pediatrics, which still say ok to soy.

Rosemary44

I went on a search for soyless formula. There isn't any. It seems that all formulas might have some soy in there. I found one that is proud to say their formula has less then 1% soy in it. Why does it have to have any soy in there? It's a total outrage. The small amount is not harmful, so they say. I'm not convinced.

On another note, this is what goes on when they process soybean oil:

"Conventionally processed soybean oils use hexane solvents to extract the oils, so the oil is free of protein. This harsh process then requires the oil to be flashed with fire to burn off the hexane solvents. High temperatures can change the structure of the fatty acids whereas they function differently or are not recognized by the human body. Plus, hexane residue remains in the finished product. Hexane is a known toxin and we believe it has no place in a baby's diet -- even if only a residue."

Nor does it belong in KFC chicken either.

jt0703

I too am ER/PR positive and afraid of soy, but almost everything product I look at has soy listed in the label. I know soybean oil is probably not the culprit, but like others I ask, what should we be eating? What should we stay away from and what kind of soy products are the enemy?

Rosemary44

I just don't know what type of soy is in all the processed foods out there. I know to stay away from soy protein and lecithin when I see it, but they might not list it that way. Some just say soy. Seeing soy in dark chocolate annoys me, but what can we do?

Here's a list of soy foods, the fermented kind are ok:

http://www.mercola.com/2004/aug/4/fermented_soy.htm

juliebb

Ever since the experience with my daughter I try to eat whole foods and no processed foods (also hotdogs only nitrate free). I have been able to find bread and cereal without soy in them....or also without hydrogenated oils. Mostly at Whole Foods market. Sometimes the soy is disguised on the label and called something else. My new thing is to learn more about raw foods. I read heating vegetables destroys the important enzymes in them. But you can heat it a little and retain the enzymes. I need to learn more about this. Looking for a five star rated raw food recipe book.

Rosemary44

Julie,

Have you given any thought to juicing? I gave up on trying to eat all the veggies that are recommended and just throw them all in a juicer instead. You can add back some of the pulp to the drink and it's pretty filling.

topztkru12345-2006Dec29

HEY ROSEMARY

I DO JUICING AND USE THE PALP FOR PESTOS OR SPREDS.
ABOUT RAW FOOD
I LIKE JUST VEGIS AND FRUITS, BUT IF YOU INTRESTING SOMETHING TO "COOK" TRY THIS LINK http://www.living-foods.com/
VERY GOOD RECIPES AND A LOT OF INFORMATION.

LIALIA

Coletrain

Here is a chill great food foodie and dining social network called FriendsEAT.com. They have Recipes, Restaurant listings, Blogs, forums and a great design. Pretty impressive sign. Should be interesting see what happens in the vertical space over next few months.

survivor2005

I think that information about soy need a lot of review. I found some time ago this scientific information:

http://homepage.mac.com/penagoscorzo/cancer/nutrition/

and http://www.medicinalfoodnews.com/vol09/issue2005/prostate

First link has abstracts of scientific research. Second link is good too.

Rosemary44

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/medicalnews.php?newsid=71231

Helferich has spent a decade evaluating the health effects of isoflavones, a class of plant estrogens present in high concentrations in soy. Much of his work has focused on a single isoflavone, genistein, which occurs in varying concentrations in soy products or ingredients such as tofu, soy protein isolates, soy flour and some estrogenic dietary supplements.

Genistein is of interest because it is the most active of the soy isoflavones, and because it activates estrogen receptors in cells, including some breast tumor cells.

Dozens of studies of the role of human and plant estrogens in breast cancer have yielded seemingly contradictory findings. Some found that feeding genistein to female rats prior to puberty reduced the number of chemically induced mammary tumors. Other studies showed that estradiol, a primary human estrogen, spurs the growth of existing estrogen-dependent breast tumors.

Helferich and colleagues demonstrated that - like estradiol - dietary genistein stimulates the growth of estrogen-responsive tumors. They also found that dietary genistein interferes with treatments, such as tamoxifen, that target estrogen receptors in breast tumors. (About 70 percent of women with breast cancer have estrogen-responsive tumors.)

More on tamoxifen and soy:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez...Pubmed_RVDocSum

Rosemary44

Soy again in the news and as usual it's bad news:

The opposite of their hypothesis proved true, they now report in the May Journal of Women's Health. High genistein levels correlated with poor cardiovascular health.

"There are a lot of women taking these things [isoflavone-rich products], without any direct evidence that they're beneficial," Pepine notes. The new study, he says, adds to a small but growing body of research suggesting there could be a down side to overindulging in them."

http://www.sciencenews.org/articles/20070623/food.asp

Meanwhile, we're stuck with it in all our processed foods.