Roesemary--We have no right whatsoever to decide which heads of government we don't like and proceed to destroy a nation--one far older than ours, and one which started far fewer wars than ours. 

There are dictators all over the world, killing their citizens as I write (you can read about them every day in any reputable newspaper), and we don't go in and take them out; but then a number of them are in African countries which offer little in the way of natural resources that Americans can use--oil being primary.  And we have on many occasions supported nations headed by dictators who murdered their citizens--many in South American as well as Saddam in the late 80's and early 90's, with money, weapons, and diplomatic cover.  In fact, it was our tacit support of Saddam in his war against Iran, where the Iranians say 1,000,000 of their people were killed, that gave Saddam the idea he could invade Kuwait with impunity. We also supported the Taliban with weapons and money (in case you've forgotten) when it was of benefit to us.  We were well aware of the treatment of women by the Taliban but we were  involved in a cold war with Russia and looked the other way.  So Bush's Iraq war had nothing to do with us trying to save the Iraqi people from  a dictator. FDR, speaking of one of our coddled dictators, called him an SOB but added he's our SOB.  Trust me, the Iraqis are not happy that we destroyed their nation.  But then they're the ones who lost the innocent lives.  

Shirley--glad to see you're still around.  I was wondering what had happened to you.   

Hanna, welcome to Politicis 101, or perhaps it's 102 since we're now discussing the general election.  Why trouble?  I thought your comment about the dog (and parrot) was funny.

Rosemary--ah, but you were suggesting initially that Bush went into Iraq to get rid of a dictator.  He didn't and we didn't, as is obvious from all the other dictators that are out there, and many with our support.  I hate it when the our government pretends to do bad things for good reasons.  Same reason, I suppose, why I started this thread.  Can't stand listening to "Obama the Beautiful" while watching the hopes of so many who feel like me fall apart.

I didn't hear what Jesse Jackson said about Obama and I'm sorry it was full of vulgarities, as then the vulgarities become the news and not the sentiments behind the words. But he was expressing the feelings of so many on the left (although I realize now that there are few of us left) as they watch Obama throw liberalism under the bus.  It's getting mighty crowded under there.

But to that same point.  Shouldn't a lot of you who lean right be delighted with Obama now. He's doing this for your guys, certainly not for the likes of me. Many of the positions he took are to the right of Hillary Clinton and everyone else who ran for the Democratic nomination.  For example, Hillary voted against Bush on FISA.  And it will be impossible for him to move back to the left if he gets elected.  He would be caricatured by everyone, so even if you don't like him you'll be getting a government far more to the right than you had expected.  And isn't that what it's all about for those of you on the right.  Curious why you're not celebrating more.

New slogan for Obama:

 "As for his changes in position, maybe that's the "change" he was talking about all along?"

I don't think the Republicans who post will like the name Hillary's former supporters (and now waiting for a viable third party candidate) have given Obama, but it's:

                                                          BUSH 3
 

Rosemary, you said, "Who knows what he'll do next?"  I agree that no one knows if he has any core values, particularly after threatening to filibuster FISA and then voting with Bush, but my point, with respect to your above question, is this.  Now that Obama has put out two totally different views, the right view being the last, for him to go back to the left is almost impossible, even for him.

Can you imagine if, after getting elected, he suggests that the free distribution of guns is not a good idea, or that the government shouldn't support religious groups, or that the death penalty is wrong, after his sharp move to the right.  Even those who refuse to acknowledge his swing at the moment, afraid they might give away some of his votes, would find it impossible not to comment if he did it again.  And he would also be looking at the next election, so would never go back to his original left stance.  We know now that being president is what drives him, not a core set of values that he wants implemented. So, you folks on the right are the winners in this.  Of course, you prefer McCain, but think of poor me, I get "right" whichever way the election goes.

About Jesse, even Al Sharpton is giving him hell, but I wonder what Sharpton is saying in private?  I remember clearly during the Clarence Thomas hearings that a majority of African Americans wanted Clarence on the Supreme Court and Anita Hill was accused by many of trying to ruin his chances.  And in the end, he was appointed and has been a great enemy to everything liberal, and in particular to black causes. Thomas only got into Yale because of Affirmative Action (he had, as I remember, a 500 on his law boards, when a high 700 is average).  Yet he came out against Affirmative Action for others in the African American community.  And this is similar to what Barack Obama is doing now.  He believes there's nothing too negative he can say and lose their votes, so he throws them under the bus (which is now the size of the Concorde).  

And further to Obama's ego, he went to a joint fund raiser for Clinton yesterday and forgot to mention her. I guess the applause went to his head.  He actually had to return, stop the band (I assume after being reminded that he was also there for Hillary) and make his request.   

'  

Shirley, I don't think it took Jesse Jr. anything more than ambition.  He's close to Obama and no doubt looking for a high position in Obama's administration.  I don't approve of the words Jackson Sr. used, but I do agree with what he said.  I wish he'd had the guts to say it on camera, instead of off.  But then he might have been thrown under a real bus!  I'm kidding (don't want to start any Hillary-Vince Foster rumors). 

Speaking of kidding, I thought McCain's comment about sending cigarettes to Iran was funny.  Hopefully, everyone else did as well.  He has a sense of humor, if a bit black. 

Rosemary, I suppose it could happen--fingers crossed--that he'll go left again.  But I don't think, contrary to you, that he's left or right.  It would have been impossible for him to get such a quick start in Chicago if he had been on the right. And I suspect he looked over the country carefully before deciding where he would begin his political career and which party to pick.  I also think it will be very difficult for him to turn his positions around if he wins; and if he wins, he'll want to run again in four years so he won't stray from the same positions that he perceives won him the election.

Shokk--you give me hope.  But if they don't permit a roll call Hillary is a non-starter. But her supporters are still as strong as ever.  I get emails every day with plans for getting Hillary the nomination.  I think they're all kidding themselves, but perhaps not.  I don't hate conservatives; I just don't agree with them on just about anything.  I suspect this is the first time in my lifetime that I have something in common with conservatives--our mutual dislike of Obama.  The irony, of course, is that we dislike him for different reasons.  For you, he's too left; and for me, he's too right; and for all of us, he's a phony. 

I'm not a believer but I think it's nice if those who believe pray for me; it means they're thinking of me, and that's always welcome.  So thanks. 

For those of you who, like me, are still furious at the gender bias displayed during the Democratic Primary, here is an email I received from Women Count, an organization started recently as a result of what happened to Hillary Clinton.  Here is their website:

info@womencountpac.com 

Here is the email I just received.  You might want to contribute to their survey:

The Democratic National Committee and Senator Obama just announced they are seeking broad input for the Party platform. As promised, WomenCount will make sure they hear us loud and clear. The first step is hearing from you about which issue we should tackle first.  

   << Make sure your voice is heard by taking the survey.

Our agenda is simple – accountability.  With your help, we will gather the largest, most passionate, most vocal and potent coalition of women (and men) of all generations and backgrounds who care about the issues that have risen out of the energy and emotion of this election.

   

 

   << Help us grow the movement by forwarding this message to friends and family.

 

 
Everyone -- no matter who they supported in the primary or who they vote for in November -- should care equally about these matters. Our plan is to organize the movement so that it can be mobilized instantly to promote our shared political agenda. Think of WomenCount as the new MoveOn for women.

Michael DeBakey 

I haven't heard anything today about the death of Dr. Michael DeBakey (the great heart surgeon); I suppose because Tony Snow died on the same day.  DeBakey was one of the true geniuses of our time, but what really fascinated me is that he was 99, and the article I read said he's survived by two sisters and a brother.  He was the eldest of five children.  Good genes I guess, but I gather he never smoked or drank and lived on salads, weighing the same when he died as when he graduated from high school. Anyway, just wanted to record that I admired this man very much for all he did for all of us.

I have to disappear for a bit. The lesion on my breast was not as minor as I thought.  Apparently, it's an atypical post-radiation vascular lesion, but I have to have it re-excised to be absolutely sure.  I remember my radiologist telling me such things are very very rare and I responded--as I usually do--that no matter how rare someone gets them!  Anyway, I have to return to New York, where I have my insurance and doctors and where there's a devoted crew of Hillary suppoters to hold my hand through the next six weeks until the convention.  Like Hillary, this thread will rise again.  

Until then, Go Hillary!