Anyone change their dietary habits?

Misty3 · May 2008

Misty3 · May 2008

I have been reading about diet and it's effect on BC. Has anyone changed their diets ( less fat ), increased vegtables or added supplements? Much has been written on the use of Omega 3, flaxseed and soy to name a few. I would be interested in hearing your thoughts on this subject.

Peaches70 · May 2008

Soy is a no-no. The others are good for you anyway.

leaf · May 2008

I am on tamoxifen, so I avoid soy protein (soybean oil/lecithin is OK from what I hear). I've greatly increased my flax intake (up from zero consumption). I have been pretty good at my fruits and veggies since many years pre-breast issues.

In this study, 30% of newly diagnosed bc patients changed their diet as described. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18390235

This paper opines that high risk women do not get clear recomendations about soy.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16183354

This paper opined that soy + tamoxifen may not be safe.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17640169

Kimber · May 2008

I stopped eating soy, which was a MAJOR part of my diet. (I miss it....)

A friend of mine who is a vegetarian still got breast cancer.....

Misty3 · May 2008

What about alcohol consumption and caffiene

leaf · May 2008

I haven't changed my alcohol and caffeine consumption, but it was extremely low to begin with.

Here's some opinions of experts on this website:

http://www.breastcancer.org/tips/nutrition/ask_expert/2005_01/question_06.jsp

http://www.breastcancer.org/tips/nutrition/ask_expert/2005_01/question_07.jsp

http://www.breastcancer.org/tips/nutrition/new_research/20070230.jsp

Misty3 · May 2008

Thanks leaf. You are an amazing source of information.

I have been reading a lot lately--mostly related to nutrition and improving overall health. There are many studies looking at nutrition and cancer prevention including soy ( ongoing NCI study )

I also found many websites devoted to "juicing" and raw foods as a means of health promotion. I think it is my way of trying to do something in a situation where there is really not much to do but wait. It certainly cannot hurt.

Anonymous · May 2008

Misty--I always ate a pretty healthy diet and exercised anyway, but now I've joined Weight Watchers so am even more conscious now of both. I try to eat a LOT of fruits and veggies, lo-fat dairy, lean meats (chicken, turkey, fish, pork tenderloin--NO red meat), high fiber, whole grains, and try to stay away from my favorite things--sweets (cookies, cakes, etc). My caffeine and alcohol was also very low to begin with, so not really an issue. I figure a healthy lifestyle can only help with prevention of bc, colon ca (which I'm also high risk for), and many other health issues, so I'm trying to do what I can with exercise and diet.

RoseDew1951 · May 2008

Misty, since being diagnosed with LCIS in left breast 12/07, I decided to do what I can to decrease my odds of getting BC. More fiber, more veggies and fruits, much less fat (no more than 35 grams daily), not much red meat (maybe once every two weeks) which has manifested into me losing 14 pounds without dieting. I've gone from a size 10 to a size 6 which truly amazes me. I take a daily multivitamin, one tsp of freshly ground flaxseed added to my steel cut oatmeal (daily), more active lifestyle, and definitely less alcohol. I saw a cancer nutritionist who recommended no more than 1-2 glasses of wine per week which I am following. I miss having wine with dinners, but a small sacrifice to pay. If drinking alcohol, have at least 400 mgs of folic acid in your multivitamin. I do not eat soy products, but am sure there are small amounts consumed in certain foods I do eat. I am not taking tamoxifen or evista as the potential sides effects totally outweigh the small benefit I may receive. Since my diagnosis I feel I have a heightened awareness of my health and while I visit these boards frequently, I don't dwell on my situation. I definitely believe in positive attitude combined with sensible lifestyle choices will help in the long run. Cancer may still raise its ugly head, but I'm doing what I can to keep it at bay. Good luck to you!

Anonymous · May 2008

Rose--I'm just wondering why you would have such a small benefit from either tamoxifen or evista? It has been shown that they both cut the risk of invasive bc between 40 and 50%; perhaps you have other medical conditions that prevent you from taking either of them? While they do have some serious risks (blood clots or endometrial cancer), they are very rare, reportedly less than 1%.

Congrats on the weight loss!

leaf · June 2008

RE: flaxseed dose: in this study on MICE, their experimental group started at 5% of their *diet* as flaxseed.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17720953

In this human study of men with prostate cancer, they used 3 tablespoonfulls of ground flax / day. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15134976

In other words, there is very little information, but 1 teaspoonfull/day may not be enough.

Misty3 · June 2008

I am wondering if there is a difference between the ground flax seed and the flaxseed oil. RoseDew grinds her own. I take the oil. Fish oil has been mentioned as a good supplement--probably overlaps with the flax omega's. Has anyone sorted this out or should I buy a book! lol!

Curious as to whether high risk breast clinics discuss nutrition and other lifestyle changes such as alcohol and caffiene? I will be consulting with a high risk NP at JHU--I really hope these things are discussed. Perhaps I will submit my questions ahead of time. The frustrating thing to me about LCIS is there is nothing to do--no treatment--no surgery--except Tamoxifen and I'm not too keen on that med but will probably take it ( I'm premenopausal ).

I'm in a LCIS funk today!

RoseDew1951 · June 2008

Dear AWB: The reason I've elected not to use tamoxifen or evista is because the 50% reduced risk equates to the following: the 50% decrease in risk is on the increased risk we with LCIS now have. For instance, the general population has a 12% of BC; with LCIS the risk is now 15% with a 1% increase per year for the next 5 years. The drugs will reduce your increased risk from 1% per year to .5% per year, or 2.5% reduction in 5 years. To me that is a negligible number. I'm not willing to add medication to my body for only a 2.5% reduction in risk. Without the drugs, my risk of developing BC will remain between 20-25% after 5 years, which means I have a 75% to 80% chance of NOT getting cancer. Only time will tell as to if I should have reconsidered. Obviously, there are as many thoughts on this topic as there are people dealing with this condition, but I'm fine with close monitoring and mammos for now.

Thanks for the congrats on the weight loss! It's wonderful!

leaf · June 2008

My high risk institution did not discuss nutrition- but what can you expect-they said my risk was 10-60% but closer to 10%-the risk of the average woman.

As far as I know, there are no studies that look at flaxseed or flaxseed oil and look at high risk breast cancer incidence in humans. This article opines most flaxseed studies in humans have been of poor quality. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17761128

But this paper speculates that the lignan in flaxseed may have benefits - its not just the omega-3 fatty acid content. Most of the studies concerning cancer that I've read are *not* talking about its omega-3 content, but flaxseed lignan and phytoestrogens. I am not sure how much phytoestrogens are found in flax seed oil. That may depend on how the flaxseed oil is isolated.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17579892

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17649821

The Duke study I cited above used ground flaxseed. From what I've read,a good portion of whole (unground) flaxseed passes right through your body without getting absorbed.

Misty3 · June 2008

A risk of 10%-60%? That's quite a range! Too bad they cannot narrow that down a bit--for all of us. To me, a range like that means we have no idea if you'll get "it" or not. I need solid numbers which are not available for LCIS, unfortunately! There lies my struggle!

Everything I have read on flaxseed mentions the benefits of lignans and phytoestrogens as you said leaf. I have also read that the whole seeds are of no value and the best thing to do is grind and use immediately. For now, I will take recommended doses of flax seed and hope to discuss it in high risk clinic. I feel nutrition should be discussed in high risk situations as an easy and logical intervention to improve overall health and, maybe, decrease BC risk/reoccurrence.

leaf, thanks for the info on the studies--you are amazing with your wealth of resources and knowledge!

leaf · June 2008

I grind my flaxseed in a coffee grinder about every 2 weeks and store it in the refrigerator. This paper says ground or crushed have more lignans available. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16317125

According to The Mayo, the anti-breast stuff is in the flaxseed, not the oil. It also warns against raw flaxseed. "Raw flaxseed or flaxseed plant may increase blood levels of cyanide, a toxic chemical (this effect has not been reported when flaxseed supplements are taken at recommended doses)."http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/flaxseed/NS_patient-flaxseed

Hmmm- it looks like in the past some have been concerned about cyanogenic glycosides http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9598210

This article says the amount of cyanide produced is below human harm levels. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9598210

This article says 50g or less is OK for humans http://www.esc.rutgers.edu/ask_expert/Supplements.htm#flax

This paper mentions flaxseed for cancer patients, but doesn't mention any cyanide issues with flax. http://www.moffittcancercenter.com/CCJRoot/v9n3/pdf/236.pdf

I'll have to research this flax + cyanide thing a little more....

*********

I was so unhappy with my consult at this major university. I thought I would be able to get all sorts of answers there. (I have LCIS + ALH.) I got a Nurse Practitioner (who was actually a former nurse practitioner for my present GP!), and had my questions written down. I started with 'what is my risk for breast cancer?"

She replied 'We use the Gail model here', and I knew this was going to be an unhappy consult because the NIH site specifically excludes LCIS from their calculations. http://www.cancer.gov/bcrisktool/

There is another breast cancer calculator, which gives me the highest risk I have ever seen (I got like 80-85%), but **it has not been compared to populations and has not been peer reviewed**. This means that calculations concerning LCIS have **NOT** been compared to populations with LCIS to see if they are valid, and his method has **NOT** been reviewed by breast cancer statistic specialists. So **DON'T HAVE A HEART ATTACK WHEN YOU SEE YOUR RESULTS**. http://www.halls.md/breast/risk.htm

But then I found this article, which points out that all the breast cancer risk calculators are essentially only slightly better than the roll of a dice when it comes to predicting breast cancer for an INVIDIVUAL woman. http://jnci.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/reprint/98/23/1673.pdf (That's even IF the Gail model held for LCIS.)

I was hoping for some education at this appointment. After the nurse practioner left, I had a breast surgeon come in. She said my risk for breast cancer was somewhere between 10 and 60%, (to get to anything more accurate they'd have to look at journal papers - which obviously I have), but they opined my risk was 'close to 10%' (I presume because I was and am on tamoxifen.)

This paper cites about a 0.7% per year risk ongoing for LCIS. http://www.breastcancer.org/symptoms/diagnosis/new_research/111005.jsp (which means over 10 years you might have a 0.7 x 10 = 7% risk, over 40 years a 7x4 = 28% risk.)

And the Port paper http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17206485 of about 250 LCIS women over 6 years also showed about that number too.

Misty3 · June 2008

That's very frustrating leaf. It's disheartening to go to an expert when right off the bat, you realize you are more informed than the expert.

I think you have a good handle on your risk. I have read consistantly, a risk of 0.5% to 1%/year. The real need is for more research to determine which of these lobular neoplasia will go on to become invasive bc and why? There is just so much that is not known.

I always try to remember that most women with LCIS will not go on to develope invasive bc. This is more comforting to me than numbers that can sometimes be meaningless to an individual woman.

leaf · June 2008

Yes, its frustrating. Their LCIS protocol is for yearly mammos and biannual clinical exams. Tamoxifen is offered. If BRCA positive, then surgery is considered.

My GP knew how uncertain breast cancer models are, though....

****

Back to flax

Here is says flax proponents say 1 tablespoonful / day

http://www.breastcancer.org/risk/everyone/question/flaxseed.jsp

It sounds like there is some controversy. http://mailman1.u.washington.edu/pipermail/phnutr-l/1999-March/002812.html

This opinion from someone at Cornell (2002) is cautious about flaxseed, and cautions with pregnancy and lactation. http://envirocancer.cornell.edu/FactSheet/Diet/fs1.phyto.cfm

This Pubmed abstract found some cadmium issues with some flaxseed, and problems in rodent pregnancy / lactation.http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17398067

I do get organic flax seed. Don't know if that makes a difference....

amberyba · June 2008

Rose, you are an inspiration...I'm going to try the things you are implementing....but I have given into old habits with the radiation treatments being in progress, "TIRED and stupid", reasons.

One thing I did at first is to

cut sugars.

flaxseed ground and sometimes the oil supplement.

eat extra broccoli, lots of fresh veges.garlic,

whole grains (organic ww or wg bread)

hardly any beef,

continue with green tea,

cut wine,

add walnuts (omega 3),

fresh carrot juice...

protein source: yougurt, eggs, poultry (tyson brand no hormones or antibiotics), occasional salmon,

artichokes occasionally when I can tolerate them (to help Liver)

Misty3 · June 2008

leaf, Forgive me if you have told me before but have you opted to take Tamoxifen? If so, do you tolerate it well? pm me if too personal or ignore--I'm just very curious about Tamoxifen now that it has become a near reality.

Thanks for the flax seed info--I just bought some organic whole seeds to grind--tastes very good in yogurt. I'm kind of bummed that this is so controversial. I knew soy was something to avoid but not flax seed. Sounds like a little is ok.

kimbly · June 2008

I take a multi vitamin, caltrate and extra vitamin D everyday. I don't eat much soy at all, never did really except for the occassional piece of tofu in my miso soup or edaname yum. I have cut down on the red meat and have switched to mostly whole grain. I have not added flaxseed but may do that, just sprinkle some on my morning cereal. I generally cut down on any processed foods meaning the cookies and chip type snacks my kids love. I never was much of alcohol drinker. I drink maybe 2 cups of black tea in the morning and the occassional cup of coffee. I never was an overconsumer of those though so no huge difference. Mostly I just really think about what I put in my mouth more than ever.

Oh of course add more fruits and veg!

beastybabe · June 2008

Hi Ladies

I too have heard that flaxseed is supposed to be good, but I heard that it was to be refined virgin compressed flaxseed oil, about 2-5 tablespoons and half a cup of cottage cheese, the mixture of flaxseed and cottage cheese are supposed to be really beneficial I read about it in a book called "Outsmart Your Cancer" by tanya Pieter.

I too have changed my diet, i eat alot more veges and fruit and take mineral supplements. If any of you ladies are interested there is a good informative book on foods that help with cancer, its called

"Foods that Fight Cancer - Preventing and Treating Cancer through Diet"

by Richard Beliveau(Phd) & Denis Gingras (Phd)

ISBN 978 1 74175 0102

Im doing intervenous Vitamin C and am taking melatonin and an Iron supplement and also selenium. Only started taking this stuff this week so if anyone is interested I can keep you up dated as to how I get on.

I would also like to know more about tamoxifin and soy....do you mean that soya milk is a no no if your taking tam or do you mean soy products?????????

leaf · June 2008

Misty- I do take tamoxifen. (I have LCIS and ALH.) I have not been able to get anyone to be interested in even a baseline breast MRI. But I do have other medical issues to deal with.

My side effects on tamoxifen have been warm flashes (started about 2 months after starting tamoxifen in July 2006.) They have not been very bothersome. I have other issues now that affect my body temperature, so I have multiple reasons to have temperature regulation issues (including being on the verge of being postmenopausal.) But most of mine have been being too cold, not too hot, though summer has not arrived here yet. I do layer clothing.

I had 2 benign endometrial polyps: 1 a year prior to starting tamoxifen (so certainly cannot be blamed on tamoxifen), and another in March 2008. I had 2 benign breast biopsies in Feb 2007, one was scar tissue from my excision, and the other ductal hyperplasia (not atypical).

I have had no other issues with tamoxifen.

Misty3 · June 2008

leaf, Because of your diagnosis and high risk status, you should qualify for an MRI ( this is what I was told by my surgeon ) and your insurance should pay. I'm curious why they would not do one--I know that ACS guidelines state not enough info for doing LCIS MRI's but do state MRI's are appropriate for risk >25%.

leaf · June 2008

Beasty babe- I think that soy **may** be helpful if you are not taking tamoxifen. **I don't know if soy interferes with other anti- breast cancer medications, such as AIs.***

This recent Mayo abstract says soy supplements were not helpful with hot flashes. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18427355

And this abstract supports that it may be helpful to prevent tumor growth. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17145841

******

I avoid soy because I am taking tamoxifen. This is a controversial stance, but I would rather be on the 'safer' side in case there is an effect.

This 2007 abstract says soy + tamoxifen may be good. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17295235

As does this, by the same lead author. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17234721

This study opined that low dose soy + tamoxifen may promote tumor growth in mice, but high dose soy may not. Since we don't have a good idea what low and high dose are, I wanted to err on the possibly safer side. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15705886

And in this study there didn't seem to be a difference. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12750262

In this study, soy negated the tamoxifen effect. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11980635

I think you can learn good things from books, but books are not peer reviewed. Some journals are peer reviewed and some are not. I don't know which are and which are not, or who is an authority and who is not.

Lots of unknowns.

beastybabe · June 2008

thanks leaf

As you say its hard to know who to believe and what will work and what wont,,

When you consider that im just starting my journey with cancer i find that Im confused alot with all the information that is out there and some things i wonder why I havnt been told about by my doctor....I don't know its such a mine field and I am running around scared most of the time.

I feel like a rabbit or opossum that has been caught in headlights

Misty3 · June 2008

Beastybabe, Just want to say hi and I hope you find the information you need here.

I can understand--the feeling of being scared all the time. You are not alone on that one. Glad you're here.

aquariusgi · November 2008

Hello,

I have to admit that my outlook on the issue was better after I had my lump removed than it is now...I thought I would everything possible to fight off any chance of BC (recently diagnosed with LCIS ERpos and have had 2 biopsies). I cut out all red meat except for holidays, eat salmon instead of red meat (2 times a week), at least organic meat and dairy. I make fruit (with cranberries) shakes in the morning with organic peanut butter (for protien) and milk, protien powder with whey (heard whey is good for BC patients, it promotes muscule growth), omega 3+6+9 oil. You can tweak it to taste. It holds me over til lunch. I try to incorporate more veggies, but they're not my favorite. Eating out is stressful cuz I'm never sure of what I should get. I just order the salmon instead of burgers or steak (lesser or 2 evils). I no longer drink any alcohol. I still drink coffee (haven't heard anything bad about it). Oddly enough I work out less now than I did before. I feel consumed with appointments and catching with the rest of my life.....But working out 4-5 solid hours a week is recommended. I have read the leaner the better. More muscule less fatty tissue which contributes to the production of estrogen. I'm tryingto stick with this regiment despite a questionable MRI. I have a follow up ultrasound tomorrow. And I'm starting to crack! I've done a lot of research on my own so I could taylor a diet that will fit my needs. I believe I get what I need from it. It could stand stand some changes. This site has a lot of good information under lowering your risk and diet.

Anonymous · November 2008

aquarius---I also have cut way back on the red meat, try to eat a lot of fruits and veggies and more fish, and try to exercise more. I would be very careful with the whey powder, as far as I know it contains soy, and that is not good for people at risk for bc.

Anne

vivre · November 2008

Beastybabe, the iron is a nono. Women should only add iron supplements if pregnant or nursing. It has been shown to feed tumors..

Aquarius girl(me too!) don't get disheartened. This diet thing is really important. My tumor shrunk by 2 cm before surgery, and I am convinced it is because I lived on veggies and oatmeal, no meat or dairy for the whole 5 weeks before surgery.

I too opted out of hormnone therapy because they gave me only a very small advantage statistically and seemed like it was just a trade off to other problems. People can be skinny or vegetarian and still not have healthy diets. Too much rice, tofu, sugar and grains that vegetarians tend to eat are not necessarily healthy if they are a mainstay of ones diet. Most vegetarians I know eat way to many grains. You will know if your diet is healthy by the way you feel. If we are eating properly, we will feel energetic, fight off colds easily, sleep well and feel mentally alert. Good food is the best medicine. Early this week, I had a cold coming on. I increased my Vt C supplement from 1000 to 2000 per day. The cold was gone in two days! I feel better now than I did before BC-by a long shot!. I know it is because I have totally changed my diet, exercise daily, and have made a committment to enjoy life.

Anyone change their dietary habits?

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