Cleavage

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  • Desny
    Desny Member Posts: 371
    edited April 2008

    Hi,

    I was wondering if anyone else had this.  I had IDC/IDCS and had to have a mastectomy of my left breast last May.  All went well but I was surprised to see my chest after the operation.  The surgeon made a gathering of some skin and made a cleavage.  I have always been small chested a and with age and weight finally a  (b cup)  I don't mind the cleavage but want to have a surgeon fix some of the gathering since it does seem to gather in a circle and make an area that looks like a whole.  Grrrrr! 

    I can't be the only one, what did you do???  Thanks

    IDC/IDCS dx 5/1/07  no nodes, mastectomy, 6 months CMF chemo

    Arimidex

  • geebung
    geebung Member Posts: 1,851
    edited April 2008

    Hi Desny,

    I have a similar result from my left mastectomy last April for DCIS. I asked my surgeon to do a skin saving mastectomy as I couldn't decide about reconstruction so I thought I should leave my options open. As a result, I have a slight cleavage effect. I have now decided against recon because I have LE and I don't want to upset any more lymph nodes with further surgery. I am sure your surgeon could do a 'tidy up' on the gathering. I have heard of quite a few women having this done.

    gb 

  • Desny
    Desny Member Posts: 371
    edited April 2008

    Thanks geebung for your comments. 

    I am okay with asking the surgeon to do a tidy up for me.  I am sorry for your situation.  Its amazing what we learn to live with.  Take care

    Desny

  • LUVmy2girlZ
    LUVmy2girlZ Member Posts: 2,394
    edited April 2008

    Desny ~

    I too had a (left) mastectomy - followed by rads Undecided ( If your having reconstuction ? ) ------

    I was told by my PS that he leaves a gathering of skin ( as gb said, skin sparing mastectomy) then they start the fills so the skin won't be anymore stretched that it has to, then once he does the "switch out" he said he will "tighten any loose areas" He said, its better to have x-tra skin...as once its removed there is no getting it back.....

    If not, I am sure you can have the skin tightened

  • otter
    otter Member Posts: 6,099
    edited April 2008

    desny,

    I'm wondering if, like the others have said, your surgeon left that extra tissue on purpose.  My onco surgeon had a reputation for being very skilled at skin-sparing mastectomies.  She also frequently worked with a reconstructive surgeon to do mast with immediate recon. It was clear from our discussions that she thought I was a good candidate for breast-conserving surgery (lumpectomy/rads).  When I said I wanted a mast, she seemed disappointed.  Then I said I didn't want recon, either.

    So the last thing I said to her in pre-op before they wheeled me into the OR was to please leave me with a flat, smooth scar.  I did not want any extra tissue left there "just in case."  She understood.  My scar has no cleavage and no whorls--it's just a smooth, flat line from my breastbone to my armpit.

    OTOH, yours can undoubtedly be fixed if you want it flatter.

     otter

  • Desny
    Desny Member Posts: 371
    edited April 2008

    Hi and thanks Otter,

    I actually went to a plastic surgeon today.  Yes, it seems that i didn't realize what the breast surgeon did - he left my options open if I wanted reconstruction.  I was so overwhelmed at the time of having my mastectomy that I could not make up my mind.  So said no to reconstruction. 

    I now have made up my mind - I still don't want it.  The plastic surgeon and I discussed how he could tidy it up to my liking.  He was very helpful and understood what was bothing me.  I thank you for responding.  I hope you are doing well and that chemo is going well.

    Dear Luvmy2girls, your post really helped me with my meeting today.  My doctor asked me again why I didn't want to do reconstruction.  I do not want an implant and the others are too much of a process to go through.  I am 58 and fine with my chest and just want the areas in question cleaned up.  When I look down, from my vantage point, I see a whole and its bothersome to me.  He will also take off the (dogears) under by arm. 

    Thank you both for your comments and support. 

  • kerry32
    kerry32 Member Posts: 125
    edited April 2008

    Desny,  did the PS give you any idea of what's involved in the clean up - such as daystay or in the office, down time - etc?  I think i'll be in the same boat but i'm only 8 weeks out...so maybe it will get better in time.

  • jeanette51
    jeanette51 Member Posts: 32
    edited April 2008

    I was also wondering what is involved in getting rid of the dogears...the nurse practitioner at my surgeon's office said they like to wait a year or so before doing anything with them.  I am only six weeks out from my surgery.  I really would hate to have to go back in for a hospital stay....any others have them removed as an outpatient?

  • Desny
    Desny Member Posts: 371
    edited April 2008

    Hi Kerri and Jeanette51,

    Yes, the surgeon said that he would sedate me and in total it would take about an hour.  This is outpatient at his surgical suite.  Recovery and healing about two weeks.  I had my mast. May 1 /07, so am about a year out.  I am really glad that I can have something done with this.  They took allot of pictures and he held the amount of skin on the dogears that he would take off so I still would have full range to excercise.  I think I will be doing it sometime in June.

    Good luck to you both. 

  • msphil
    msphil Member Posts: 1,536
    edited April 2008

    Hello sweetie, I opted for reconstruction, started the process, filling, and then my body rejected it, had removed and sorry I started the reconstruction, am pleased with prothesis. msphil

  • Desny
    Desny Member Posts: 371
    edited May 2008

    I have an update on the surgery that I want to have to correct the whole and take away the dogears.  I am the middleman in the process of doctor (sp) and our insurance company.  Seems the insurance is saying is it cosmetic surgery and doctor is with me in saying it is corrective since I had no input about the skin spearing aspect of the mastectomy.  Grrrr - I can't get an answer on if the insurance will approve the procedure and what they may pay.  I really feel stuck.  The insurance would pay for reconstruction (80% of what they deam reasonible).  I have been down this road before.  I had one hell of a bill after the surgery because the payments were

    not even close to what I was billed.  I am still waiting to hear their decision on that one.  I guess I won't be able to do this "tidy up" eventhough it was caused by my having breast cancer and having a mastectomy.  God I hate this!  Sorry you all have to listen to me grip, what a bummer! 

  • Erica3681
    Erica3681 Member Posts: 1,916
    edited May 2008

    That is completely ridiculous! Maybe you should just ask your surgeon to call it reconstruction!! Has the doctor intervened directly with the ins. co.? Please urge him to--hopefully, that will do the trick.

  • Desny
    Desny Member Posts: 371
    edited May 2008

    Erica, thank you for your support. 

    My doctor did send a letter of necessity because this is the result of bc and having a mastectomy.  The result, extra skin and dogears is the result and what is left.  It is a gray area with the insurance company.

    I spoke with both insurance company and sp office at the end of the day today.  Both agree that I am left with this.  I have to call them again on Thursday for an answer. 

    If I don't get a positive answer,  I will ask the sp to call it reconstruction.  I will keep you posted.  Thank you again for your support.

    Shirley

    It is ridiculous and I sure do feel very helpless in this situation. 

  • kerry32
    kerry32 Member Posts: 125
    edited May 2008

    wow that's awful you should have to deal with the insurance at all about this.  i am thinking i'll need a tidy up surgery too.  I have sunken in scars, with the cleavage thing and the lumps under my arms.  maybe it will flatten out somewhat with time ....

  • Binney4
    Binney4 Member Posts: 8,609
    edited May 2008

    Hi, Shirley,

    You can win this, but unfortunately the insurance company can make you work for it. If you don't already have information packets from your insurance, call and ask them to send you complete info for filing both an appeal and a grievance. You'll need a calm and organized statement (outline form helps - you want it clear and easy to reference) stating the problem, the steps you've already taken, the exact action you want the insurance company to take, and all the reasons why they should do that. You also need as much supporting documentation as you can find: anything to do with reconstruction, skin-sparring techniques, usual ps protocol, etc. (assume they're as dumb as stumps and find information on EVERY aspect). Also include a copy of the complete 1998 Women's Health and Cancer Treatment Act (or whatever it's called) that provides for recon or other surgery. Highlight the crucial parts, but include the whole of each document. Also, attach letters from as many of your doctors/therapists/NPs/PAs as you can convince to support you. On your outline, note each document and letter where it's appropriate. THEN take the entire stack of papers, in order and neatly labeled, and HAVE YOUR DOCTOR FAX IT. If you fax or mail it they're not obliged to read the attachments, but if your doc faxes it they must read it all, every page. Kiss Good for them! They'll learn something! And one of the things they'll likely learn is not to mess with you again. Win-win!

    Be sure to also file a grievance at the same time, stating exactly the anguish they are causing you with this delay and the impediment to adequate health care, recovery, and healing that they're causing. State that the action you wish to see is promp approval for the clean-up surgery they owe you.

    I know this is a lot of work, but it's got its satisfying aspects. When I hand my doc's nurses a thick stack of documents to fax for me I always think they're going to balk, but they hate insurance companies at least as much as I do, and they rub their hands together in glee and chuckle as they retire to their fax machine.

    Go get 'em!

    Binney 

  • Desny
    Desny Member Posts: 371
    edited May 2008

    Binney

    Wow, that was some powerful information and I thank you!  I will see what kind of answer I get and muster up the energy to fight back.  I am so tired of them not paying and controling my life.

    Again,  thank you for the info and support.

    Shirley

  • nagem
    nagem Member Posts: 353
    edited May 2008

    I had trouble with my insurance company as well, and I found 1) that there was an insurance ombudsman at my company who was willing to help me do the troubleshooting, and 2) that I just had to put one foot in front of the other in a mechanical and systematic way, and the insurance company capitulated. It took a long time and a lot of letters. But I ended up getting fully recompensed. You have to get into the mind-set that dealing with the insurance people is a job like any other, and you just take the steps and let them know you're not backing down. Good luck!

  • Desny
    Desny Member Posts: 371
    edited June 2008

    Hi Everyone,

    I have an update on my saga.  My insurance rejected my claim stating that the clean up of the mastectomy site is cosmetic.  Done, also thought that I should reconsider the clean up as in their opinion - if I do it, I wouldn't be able to have reconstruction down the road. 

    I guess they know better then me what I can live with?  Grrr! 

    I know they are wrong but will double check it with ps.  I now have asked for the dollar figure it will cost me out of pocket if I want this done. 

    I have a question.  I have a 1 year appointment with my surgeon who did the mastectomy.  I am greatful for his skill and know that he did a great job getting all matter out at the mastectomy but leaving that little whole at the skin spearing site has caused allot in my life.  Should I mention it to him?  I do not what to insult him but I think he needs to know that what he leaves effects the patient.

    One nurse said to me that they aren't concerned with the site - its the matter and cancer that they are going for.  Wrong or am I oversensitive because I have to live with it?

    Your thoughts and comments please. 

    Thanks,

    Shirley

  • Erica3681
    Erica3681 Member Posts: 1,916
    edited June 2008

    You are NOT oversensitive. While of course elimination of the cancer is the primary goal of breast surgeons, they should also be concerned with all the needs of their patients, which includes feeling as good as possible about the medical and cosmetic outcome of surgery. My surgeon is a highly respected doctor at a major medical center. Before surgery, I asked her to make the result of my bilaterals as "cosmetically pleasing" as possible. Even though I'd had prior lumpectomies on both sides, she managed to create thin, symmetrical incisions with no extra skin on my chest or under my arms. This made a big difference to me psychologically and in that sense aided my recovery. It sounds as if your surgeon was actually trying to give you a good result, but just not the result that you had in mind. If you bring it up in a nice way, hopefully he'll appreciate the feedback.

    I'm depressed that your insurance won't cover the cosmetic repair. Hopefully, out-of-pocket won't be too expensive.

    Barbara 

  • Desny
    Desny Member Posts: 371
    edited June 2008

    Thank you Barbara for you comments and support. 

    Yes, I think this whole thing set me into a mild depression while I was on vacation.  It is sad that insurance companies make it such a game of "wearing out patients emotionally" hoping they will not pursue it.     I am beginning to come realize that I will ultimately come to terms with what I will do to get the results I want.  I'm not sure yet if I will say anything to the surgeon at my check-up, he is from Italy and very shy.  This situation is still new to me and with no resolution yet, I don't want to complicate things more for myself emotionally at this time. 

    A very dear girlfriend who had breast cancer 19 years ago, asked me to show her my area of distress with the skin sparing mastectomy.  It was a "you show me yours and I'll show you mine thing" lol, She went first - just like I thought, no gathering of skin, no whole.  When I pushed aside my breast form and revealed my mastectomy site, she said, I don't blame you.  I'd want that fixed too. 

    So I will post again when I get this issue resolved.  In the meantime, thank you for your comments and support.

    Shirley

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