The Brand New Respectful Presidential Campaign Thread

I didn't mean to imply that no money would be involved, only that the money wouldn't be given directly to individuals in cash. Obama has talked about retraining displaced workers in Green jobs, such as building and installing solar panels for houses, which cuts down on energy costs, which cuts down on dependence of foreign oil. I see this as an investment in future savings on many levels. There is a program called Liheap where low income people get help paying for their heating bills. Imagine if that money was invested into giving the low income people who were displaced when their jobs moved overseas the training to do that. Then they wouldn't need the money from Liheap and if there was a program rather than giving help for heat, but giving help to reduce the cost of heat through the solar panels eventually there wouldn't be a need for Liheap.

RM-- your ancestors were white so they did have the advantage of not being the same race as the slaves which were brought over here. It was legal for your ancestors to go to school, own land, work for pay, vote etc. Those are all of the advantages your ancestors black counterparts didn't have. Indentured servitude and slavery are apples and oranges. You can say how bad it was and I'm sure it wasn't easy-- but you're comparing a stubbed toe to gangrene.  I suppose if all you've ever had is stubbed toes,you might not realize gangrene is so bad and you might even think your stubbed toes are the same thing-- after all, you recovered from that stubbed toe, why shouldn't the person with gangrene also get over it.

Yes, some african americans have come here willingly-- but that doesn't account for this country's history of slavery and of Jim Crow. Yes,this is a country of immigrants who with the exception of slaves, 99% came here willingly.

For shirley :

Longer Versions of Problematic Rev. Wright's Sermons Reveal Context Missed in Looped Clips

Date: Tuesday, March 25, 2008
By: Sherrel Wheeler Stewart, BlackAmericaWeb.com

Longer portions of sermons that contain sound bites from embattled Rev. Jeremiah Wright flashed across the country in recent weeks and labeled as racist and anti-American by some have surfaced, revealing a broader message in the commentary of Barack Obama's pastor and retiring minister at Chicago's Trinity United Church of Christ.

Nationally noted political columnist Roland Martin and Eric Deggans, a nationally recognized media columnist at the St. Petersburg Times, wrote about the full context of the sermons in recent blogs.

"I saw a lot of people did news stories and commentaries, based on the reporting by ABC and Fox but did not have their own copies," Deggans told BlackAmericaWeb.com. "They took what was reported and built on it. Some missed the boat."

In his blog, Martin said he wanted to see for himself the full sermon Wright preached shortly after 9/11 entitled "The Day of Jerusalem's Fall."

"The point that I have always made as a journalist is that our job is to seek the truth, and not the partial truth," Martin said in his blog. "And let me be clear: Where I believe he was wrong and not justified in what he said based upon the facts, I will say so. But where the facts support his argument, that will also be said."

Longer portions of Wright's sermons, posted now on YouTube, show that Wright's sermon that included the phrase "God damn America" talked about how the "U.S. has failed a majority of its citizens of African decent." The same sermon talked about the suffering of Native Americans and Japanese in America.

The video clip that included the phrase "America's chickens are coming to roost" was part of a sermon "faith footnote" where Wright said he was quoting Iraq Ambassador Edward Peck, who made the statement on a television news interview, referring to a statement from Malcolm X in the 1960s. Wright's sermon came just days after the 9/11 tragedy as he admonished parishioners to take a "self examination" of their relationship with God.

While the sermon sound bites have sparked criticism and prompted Obama to respond with a nationally televised speech on race, Wright's reputation in some theological communities and churches has not been deflated.

Tuesday through Thursday, Wright will preach a revival at Bible-Based Fellowship of Temple Terrace, near Tampa, Florida, And on Saturday, he will be honored by the Brite Divinity School in Fort Worth, Texas, during the State of the Black Church Summit and Awards Banquet.

"Those who criticize Rev. Wright have not listened to the full message he preaches," the Rev. Arthur T. Jones, a Tampa minister who has been mentored by Wright for more than 25 years, told BlackAmericaWeb.com. "All he is doing is speaking the truth. But when you hear only sound bites strung together, you don't get the full context. Rev. Wright still is loved and respected, and maybe even more so now."

Jones pastors Bible-Based Fellowship Church where he said Wright preached a revival in the fall. "The reception for Rev. Wright was phenomenal," Jones said. "He comes to us every year."

Wright's planned appearance in Fort Worth has stirred a bit of controversy. The board of trustees at Texas Christian University, the campus on which Brite Divinity is located, asked that the event be moved off campus.

"The executive committee of TCU's Board of Trustees today voted, and Brite Divinity School leadership agreed, to move the Divinity School's Black Church Summit events off campus in light of security issues noted by campus police and the Fort Worth Police Department. The Divinity School will announce the new location of the event," read a statement posted on the TCU website.

"Luther King, chairman of the board, agreed that while the university should be a place where controversial opinions are freely expressed, the safety and security of students, faculty and staff are the primary concern of the board," the statement read.
 
A new location had not been announced for the summit on Sunday evening. Brite Divinity School, however, posted a statement on website reiterating its mission and confirming its plans to continue with the summit and recognition of Wright.
 
"In the 1950s, at the dawn of the civil rights movement, Brite professors Harold and Alberta Lunger and Brite student Vada Felder -- the first African-American to graduate from Brite -- provided hospitality to the Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. in a Fort Worth, Texas, not yet ready to welcome him," Brite Dean Nancy J. Ramsay and Brite Trustee Eugene Brice wrote in a statement posted Sunday on the school's website.
 
"Dr. Wright's career and contributions provide an excellent model of ministry and profound theological vision that ensure the ongoing legacy of the historic black church tradition. He served as pastor of Trinity United Church of Christ in Chicago from 1972-2008. During this period, Trinity UCC grew from 87 adults to over 8700 members. Today, this south Chicago congregation provides numerous ministries ranging from Food Share programs, dance and math tutorials for youth and small groups that benefit families and individuals. The congregation tithes its annual revenues to support other congregations, denominational missions, and agencies supporting mission work in Liberia, Haiti, Ethiopia, Nigeria, Ghana, Brazil, and South Africa," the statement read.

"Trinity has also birthed four new congregations of the UCC -- two in Atlanta, Georgia, one in Gary, Indiana, and one in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. ... Like the Rev. Dr. Jeremiah Wright, Brite trusts in a God whose love and justice are never divided," according to the statement. In this spirit of Christian witness, Brite Divinity School honors and celebrates a tradition of dialogue, diversity, and finding common ground."

Wright also has been recognized by politicians as a leader. In 1998, when then President Bill Clinton invited religious leaders from across the country to the White House to meet with him, Wright was among the attendees. Last week, a photo surfaced of former President Clinton and Wright.

The campaign of Sen. Hillary Clinton responded by criticizing Obama's campaign for "peddling photos" of former President Clinton and

Obama and Clinton are in virtual dead heat for the Democratic nomination for president. Obama had carried a lead over Clinton before the controversy over his pastor's statements surfaced. The most recent Gallup Poll released on Saturday shows that Obama has regained a slight edge.

"Obama's campaign clearly suffered in recent days from negative press, mostly centering on his association with the controversial Rev. Jeremiah Wright. Perhaps as a result, Clinton moved into the lead in Gallup's Wednesday release, covering March 16-18 polling. But Obama has now edged back ahead of Clinton due to a strong showing for him in Friday night's polling, perhaps in response to the endorsement he received from well-respected New Mexico Gov. Bill Richardson, a former rival for the nomination," according to a Gallup Poll release.

The poll of likely Democratic voters showed that 48 percent favored Obama and 45 percent favored Clinton. Neither Obama, nor Clinton would defeat Republican nominee John MCain, according to Gallup. McCain holds just a two percentage point edge over both -- 46 percent to 44 percent over Obama and 47 percent to 45 percent over Clinton.

Jones, the Tampa minister and friend of Rev. Wright, said the controversy over the minister's statements have nothing to do with Wright.

"This is an attempt to poison the minds of the public," Jones said. "For once, we have man who can galvanize the support of blacks, whites, Hispanics and other races to bring unity. That's a direct challenge to the white male domination we have seen in politics in this country for years. And there are those who don't want it to change."

I am pretty sure by now most everyone has listened to or read Wright's sermons

Paulette, you give the people on this thread more credit than I do, and I sincerely hope that you are right.

I was never talking about you taking personal responsibility for crimes of the past. I was talking about social responsibility for inequity in society that resulted from those crimes of the past. New Jersey recently passed a controversial resolution to apologize for slavery. I thought it was a dumb idea, as did many of the residents, because anyone alive today has nothing to apologize since slavery was outlawed almost 150 years earlier. A black woman who was interviewed said, "They're doing it to make themselves feel better. If they really wanted to apologize why not put some more funds into the poor schools."

Education, job training,  and investing in the future (like with solar panels) will pay eventually save the tax payer's and government money.

Shirley- here are some examples of Falwell's racism words quoted.

Jerry Falwell:

I do not believe the homosexual community deserves minority status. One's misbehavior does not qualify him or her for minority status. Blacks, Hispanics, women, etc. are God-ordained minorities who do indeed deserve minority status.

Falwell once announced that the long-awaited "antichrist" would be a Jewish man. He criticized the children's TV show Teletubbies because he believed Tinky Winky be homosexual. In 1997, when Ellen DeGeneres came out as a gay figure, Falwell called her "Ellen Degenerate" and demanded that sponsors yank their advertising from her eponymous sitcom. He claimed that Lilith Fair, the female rock-and-roll collective tour, was named after a demon.

"AIDS", he said, "is not just God's punishment for homosexuals; it is God's punishment for the society that tolerates homosexuals." Falwell also opposed the concept of public schools: "I hope I live to see the day when, as in the early days of our country, we won't have any public schools. The churches will have taken them over again and Christians will be running them. What a happy day that will be!"

Two days after September 11, Falwell fingered those he felt were responsible. "I know that I'll hear from them for this. But, throwing God out successfully with the help of the federal court system, throwing God out of the public square, out of the schools. The abortionists have got to bear some burden for this because God will not be mocked. And when we destroy 40 million little innocent babies, we make God mad. I really believe that the pagans, and the abortionists, and the feminists, and the gays and the lesbians who are actively trying to make that an alternative lifestyle, the ACLU, People for the American Way -- all of them who have tried to secularize America -- I point the finger in their face and say you helped this happen".

When George W. Bush took office as President in 2001 and established a White House Office of Faith-Based and Community Initiatives, Falwell said it was a great idea, so long as Muslim groups were disqualified from receiving the money because, according to Falwell, their faith teaches hate. "Islam should be out the door before they knock", he said. The following year, Falwell noted that "Muhammad was a terrorist. I read enough by both Muslims and non-Muslims, [to decide] that he was a violent man, a man of war". He later half-apologized, saying, "I intended no disrespect to any sincere, law-abiding Muslim."

Decades before the forces that now make up the Christian right declared their culture war, Falwell was a rabid segregationist who railed against the civil rights movement from the pulpit of the abandoned backwater bottling plant he converted into Thomas Road Baptist Church. This opening episode of Falwell's life, studiously overlooked by his friends, naïvely unacknowledged by many of his chroniclers, and puzzlingly and glaringly omitted in the obituaries of the Washington Post and New York Times, is essential to understanding his historical significance in galvanizing the Christian right. Indeed, it was race--not abortion or the attendant suite of so-called "values" issues--that propelled Falwell and his evangelical allies into political activism.

As with his positions on abortion and homosexuality, the basso profondo preacher's own words on race stand as vivid documents of his legacy. Falwell launched on the warpath against civil rights four years after the Supreme Court's Brown v. Board of Education decision to desegregate public schools with a sermon titled "Segregation or Integration: Which?"

"If Chief Justice Warren and his associates had known God's word and had desired to do the Lord's will, I am quite confident that the 1954 decision would never have been made," Falwell boomed from above his congregation in Lynchburg. "The facilities should be separate. When God has drawn a line of distinction, we should not attempt to cross that line." [Nation]

"I listen to feminists and all these radical gals... These women just need a man in the house. That's all they need. Most of the feminists need a man to tell them what time of day it is and to lead them home. And they blew it and they're mad at all men. Feminists hate men. They're sexist. They hate men; that's their problem."

"I do not believe that God answers the prayer of any unredeemed Gentile or Jew"

Falwell had called the gay-positive Metropolitan Community Churches:

"brute beasts...[and] a vile and Satanic system [that will] one day be utterly annihilated and there will be a celebration in heaven."

"Now, further evidence that the creators of the series intend for Tinky Winky to be a gay role model have surfaced. He is purple -- the gay-pride color; and his antenna is shaped like a triangle -- the gay-pride symbol."

Two days after 9-11, in an exchange with Pat Robertson on the 700 Club program, he is reported as having commented on the attacks on the World Trade Center and Pentagon:

"I agree totally with you that the Lord has protected us so wonderfully these 225 years. And since 1812, this is the first time that we've been attacked on our soil and by far the worst results. And I fear, as Donald Rumsfeld, the Secretary of Defense, said yesterday, that this is only the beginning. And with biological warfare available to these monsters -- the Husseins, the Bin Ladens, the Arafats -- what we saw on Tuesday, as terrible as it is, could be miniscule if, in fact -- if, in fact -- God continues to lift the curtain and allow the enemies of America to give us probably what we deserve.....And I know that I'll hear from them for this. But, throwing God out successfully with the help of the federal court system, throwing God out of the public square, out of the schools. The abortionists have got to bear some burden for this because God will not be mocked. And when we destroy 40 million little innocent babies, we make God mad. I really believe that the Pagans, and the abortionists, and the feminists, and the gays and the lesbians who are actively trying to make that an alternative lifestyle, the ACLU, People for the American Way, all of them who have tried to secularize America, I point the finger in their face and say: you helped this happen."

Additionally, Jerry Falwell was a criminal.

1) October 1987: The Federal Election Commission fines Falwell $6,000 for transferring $6.7 million in funds intended for his ministry to political committees.

2)February 1993: The Internal Revenue Service determines that funds from Falwell's Old Time Gospel Hour program were illegally funneled to a political action committee. The IRS forced Falwell to pay $50,000 and retroactively revoked the Old Time Gospel Hour's tax-exempt status for 1986-87.

3) 1994-1995: Falwell is criticized for using his "Old Time Gospel Hour" to hawk a scurrilous video called "The Clinton Chronicles" that makes a number of unsubstantiated charges against President Bill Clinton-among them that he is a drug addict and that he arranged the murders of political enemies in Arkansas. Despite claims he had no ties to the project, evidence surfaced that Falwell helped bankroll the venture with $200,000 paid to a group called Citizens for Honest Government (CHG). CHG's Pat Matrisciana later admitted that Falwell and he staged an infomercial interview promoting the video in which a silhouetted reporter said his life was in danger for investigating Clinton. (Matrisciana himself posed as the reporter.)  "That was Jerry's idea to do that," Matrisciana recalled. "He thought that would be dramatic."

Four years after the Supreme Court's Brown vs. Board of Education outlawing segregated public schools, Falwell gave a speech titled, "Segregation or Integration."

His message was unmistakably clear:

"If Chief Justice Warren and his associates had known God's word and had desired to do the Lord's will, I am quite confident that the 1954 decision would never have been made. The facilities should be separate. When God has drawn the line of distinction, we should not attempt to cross that line."

"The true Negro does not want integration... he realizes his potential is far better among his own race."

Shirley, when you criticize Wright over and over again for the same 20 second sound bite and post new articles on that, are you also not moving on?

I believe that we've all moved on from a racist society towards a better one-- but that we are not there yet.  When Obama gave his historic speech, he started off, "We the people, in order to form a more perfect union..." the key being more.  People who believe as Wright does speak harmful words, as did Jerry Falwell and others who marginalize a segment of the population.

Most of the teens who are racist, whether white or black have learned that from their families to think that way, as are most of the people who are antigay. If a minister is preaching hate and not love, that's wrong, in my opinion.

You have positive things to say about Falwell and I believe that to some people, including you, he was a kind man. If I were only to look at the horrendous quotes me made, I would not think so and more than if people listened to the sound bite of Wright, they would think he was a kind man. If you stop posting negative things about Wright, I'll stop responding to them. You can go on thinking Wright is pure evil, but if you go on posting about it I'm going to respond to it.

I do not think you are racist even though you have some bias.

An interesting tidbit about whites adopting blacks, the push is now to disallow that, because agencies believe that blacks lose their cultural identity when this happens. In some states it was even outlawed, which I think is ridiculous, it's much better for a child to have a home than not have one.