The Brand New Respectful Presidential Campaign Thread
Comments
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Felicia,
Illegal immigrants mean that they cut in front of people who were going through the legal process to get here, like me for example. We have a country with laws now and we are asking people to respect them. Imagine you are waiting for a long time in line for something that is of outmost importance for you, and then you see someone stepping in front of the line getting it. Should we encourage this type of behavior ? There are 100 thousands of people who would like to become permanent residents. In fact there was a lottery for people who already had jobs here to become permanent residents. The maximum was 65K but on Jan 1st 100K applied, majority of these people were already in US employed. So almost half of them will have to go back or try their luck next year if their time did not run out.
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inna,
I prefer Clinton's approach in terms of mandating insurance - it's the one way to ensure that those who are insured don't end up paying the medical costs for those who are not. But, having said that, my issue is not so much with Obama's plan itself but with the way that he has misrepresented his plan.
Obama has been emphatic in saying that his plan provides 100% coverage. Amy, you can choose to interpret Obama's plan however you want, but the fact is that his words have been clear, with no interpretation necessary. And what Obama has said is simply not the way it's going to be. Obama's plan has a glaring inconsistency that all of us here are able to see, and yet somehow he doesn't see it or acknowledge it. To me, that raises questions about how much thought he put into the development of his healthcare plan. It raises questions about his judgement. It raises questions about his truthfulness. And it can't help but make me wonder if he's also rounding the edges of the truth in some of his other statements about other policy areas, such as Iraq. When Obama gets elected (and I believe he will be elected), what happens when those who voted for him, believing his words that he will implement universal healthcare, realize that his plan allows millions of people to opt out of coverage? Will they feel that they were lied to?
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Securing our borders is more important than ever after the thousands that were killed on 9/11. It would be so easy to come through our open border. Or, whe could just stick our heads in the sand and think this could never happen here again.
Shirley
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Below is an explanation of what happens if someone in MA does not enroll in health insurance from the Boston Globe. One thing to consider is that 90% of MA residents already had health insurance before this mandate - it is just 10% of the population that need to change their behavior. The Connector referred to is a new commission to administer the policy. They offer insurance with premiums on a sliding scale from as little as $0. As I said previously, we really need another year to see how it all shakes out - there still are a lot of unknowns.
"What if I still don't enroll?
There's where the individual mandate comes in. Beginning with the 2007 state income tax return, those who refuse to enroll in a health insurance plan will lose their personal exemption, worth roughly $200 a year. And beginning on January 1, 2008, uninsured people will be subject to penalties of roughly $150 a month. That's tough, but it's necessary to change the behavior of people who are used to going without insurance, either because they are healthy or are accustomed to relying on the Uncompensated Care Pool to pay for their care.
However, there is a way out of the mandate. The board of the Connector can make exceptions if it finds that an individual's circumstances make coverage unaffordable. And people can appeal to the Connector on their own if they think they can't afford the policies."
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Securing our borders is more important than ever after the thousands that were killed on 9/11. It would be so easy to come through our open border. Or, whe could just stick our heads in the sand and think this could never happen here again.
I can't say how much I disagree with this premise. Securing our borders is a fallacy. If we look at the size of the USA it's impossible to build a structure that will actually keep people out of the country. Why are we only building such a fence over the mexican border and not over the vastly larger canadian border? The only answer I can come up with is that we care more about not having mexicans enter the country than canadians.
Does anyone know just how many of the 9/11 hijackers were here illegally? I don't have the facts on that, but I do know that terrorists aren't stupid and even having a secure mexican border wouldn't prevent them from coming in. If we look at the 19/20 hijackers and take that as a percentage of the supposed number of illegal immigrants it doesn't even register as a percentage and if we were using the number in statitics it would be so far under the number for statistical significance the number wouldn't register.
I'd rather see the funds used to help the american people rather than thrown away at a misconception.
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Because most illegals come over the Mexican border..I'm not sure any of the 9/11 terrorists were here illegally - weren't some on student visas or other such things?
Not that any kind of fence would stop anyone no matter where it is...there's a huge number coming into FL too.
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I believe you are correct, Marissa. I don't think any of the hijackers were here illegally, they were all on visas.
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I found out the student visas of the terrorists had expired...which means there's a problem with following up the legal immigrants we let in - there's a big problem with people starting out legally and just never leaving and then it's illegal..trust me we get a ton of cases where I work of illegals that were here legally to start and then their papers expired...and then they die here and we can't get a real name or contact their family because they've been hiding out..which wouldn't have happened if the US followed up the paperwork...
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Also..I know a lot of people that come from Mexico - not illegally but are coming here for 6 months..working and going home for 6 months where they live like kings...I'm sure the desperate people that really need $ don't feel they have time for visas...so they just sneak in and hope they don't get caught....when I took a terrorist course in grad school... most terrorists were not here illegally - they weren't hiding out in the same fashion as illegals..they were trying to assimilate our life and blend in...
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So wouldn't it go to prove-- if indeed most illegal aliens come in through mexico that they won't say-- guess we can't come through here--- let's try canada-- if we're talking about the types of folks who are terrorists. Otherwise, it's mostly just people who are coming to try to make a better life for their families, to work to send money home etc.--- I get concerned when people use the small percentages of terrorists and lump them in with the people who are here illegally out of sheer desperation.
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How would they get to Canada? Too hard..although some great whites migrate up..they could hitch a ride
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Again-- I'm talking about Mexicans and not terrorists? How would they get to the US? You've heard about how cubans risk their lives and often die trying to get to the US by water?
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Ralph Nader???? Does this guy hate the democrats that much? I hope people won't forget 2000 because in part, Nader is responsible for GWB's anointment.
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Yes..Cuba is not far from FL..Mexico is far from Canada so that's why I was guessing aliens from Mexico only enter from Mexico and not from Canada.
Maybe I'm just confused by what you were saying..
My mom's friend was driving north somewhere and they drove over the Canadian border and didn't even know it!
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Just my random thought --
being a New Yorker and having been here on 9/11/01, inhaled the dust for months, living in downtown area where I had to show ID to get to my home after leaving work --
among the thousands killed at the WTC were a number of "illegal aliens" -- people who wash dishes and wait on tables and tote barges and lift bales...
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But there's an awful lot of coast in california em. I was just saying that people who want to get here bad enough will find away and some die in their quest for what they think will be a better life.
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Ann, I think it's awful that's happening with the 9/11 first responders and the others who were and will be effected by the debris?
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Yes it's sad....
I remember my class had some secret report about asbestos in the air after 9/11 but everyone was denying it...
Marisa
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If I remember correctly, some of the 911 terrorists entered the US via the Canadian border. I also remember that other terrorists attempted to enter through the Canadian border after 911, and were unsuccessful.
The Mexican border fence will not keep anyone from entering the US. If you live in California that is quite evident. In Southern California there was a border patrol crossing on the 405 freeway south of San Clemente. Since they built a border fence out into the ocean south of San Diego, this border check crossing is not even open much of the time. Yet they still have signs warning of adults and children crossing the highway on foot! If people from the south want to get into the US they will find a way, no matter how high or how long a fence is.
I am convinced that without the "illegal" migration of people from the south (I don't say Mexicans because many Central Americans use this route into the US), our vegetables would rot in the fields, our beds and laundry would remain unmade and dirty, and we would be washing our own restaurant dishes if we ate out! I live in Santa Cruz County, and what I have seen is an amazing change in the jobs that Mexicans and Central Americans do who migrate here, legal or otherwise.
Most of the time, the medical assistance who takes my blood pressure etc. before I see the doc is a Spanish speaker. Same goes for dental hygienists and some hospital workers. The Spanish speakers have moved out of the restaurant dishwashing and some even own their own little taco bar or burrito taqueria. This group of people are going to college. I met some of the young women and men at UCSC whose parents were "illegal" but their offspring were citizens. These college students were working sometimes fulltime as well as taking a full load and involving themselves in volunteer activities. They were sending most of their salaries to their family and thus helping support them and improving their lives.
In California we "whites" are now the majority minority. I don't mind because I see other minorities working hard to have the American Dream that this country has been defined by for so long. These are people who work hard, have strong family values, and believe that communities are important. I like having people like that in my community. I would have no problem living next to them. I often go to a town close to us because it is the only place this side of the mountains that has a Target. The majority of shoppers are Spanish speakers. Mom, Dad & children are there shopping together. This is what I remember California was like in the 1950s when I was a child. Then white families lived the same as other cultures do now. I believe we need to come up with some other way to control influx of populations over our borders besides building huge fences. How ugly we Americans can be--both here and when we go abroad!
grace -
As far as healthcare plans--why not require companies to use those tax cuts they are receiving to fund decent healthcare plans for their employees and family members?
The days of going to work for the "family" company and staying 30 years are past. Companies making cuts often start with health insurance first. Small companies and small businesses can't afford to provide health insurance. These businesses need access to group plans that can provide low cost healthcare to people in similar types of work. And some businesses such as day care providers in their homes often have only 1 or 2 employees working part or full time. They can't afford to provide healthcare to their employees. That is my daughter's problem--she works in a home day care provider. My SIL works for a small construction business, and that owner only provides healthcare to the employee, and he only pays 1/2 the amt & SIL pays the other half. In order to pay that, and add his wife & daughter so they have insurance, my SIL pays over $800 per month. To me that is outrageous.
There should be a way for construction workers to sign up under a group plan.
The other problem is that when a person retires, they lose the healthcare insurance unless they can afford to pay it themselves. How can a retired person pay $800-$1000 for health insurance? Even if a person saves through a 401K, one stay in the hospital can cost $50,000 and up. Many of those on the board have probably experienced this.
I am fortunate. I have lifetime benefits after retirement (up to $2 mil), and my dh is covered also. However, some employees hired after a certain date, their heathcare insurance ends when they retire.
I think the large corporations and businesses should fork over the tax cuts they receive from the government to help fund a group insurance plan. When I see the drug companies, oil companies, and insurance companies have profits of 7 and 8 figures, there is something wrong here!
grace -
Just to lighten things up--on a completely different note from SNL
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JdpPj6UMG6A
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hac-UHi56Xc
Whatever you think about Hukabee's policies he is one engaging character.
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Speaking of SNL-- I thought the guy they got to do Obama was awful. They didn't even pick a black guy. Was anyone else uncomfortable with what seemed to be dark make up to make the comedian appear black? I thought that kind of thing went out in the 20s.
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It wasn't my favorite- but I understand the decision.
SNL is an entertainment troupe and does the improvisations from within the group.
Its my understanding that the auditions are from within that group.
They were judged on who could most effectively portray the irritating habits of the candidates and not their race.
Apparently Keenan Thompson did not do the best in portraying those qualities although he is the only black cast member at this time.
Personally, I found his ears more distracting than the makeup.
By the way this cast member also portrays Ahmadinejad.
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Susie- SNL held open auditions and there are even some you-tube audition tapes-- anyway I remember when SNL used to be funny. The writers seem to have gotten stale during their strike-- although the Obama being media darling was worth a chuckle.
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Grace, it was a false rumor that any of the 9-11 terrorists entered the U.S. from Canada.
Here's what the 9-11 Commission had to say about the entry of the terrorists into the U.S.:
- "As we know from the sizable illegal traffic across our land borders, a terrorist could attempt to bypass legal procedures and enter the United States surreptitiously. None of the 9/11 attackers entered or tried to enter our country this way. So today we will focus on the hijackers' exploitation of legal entry systems."
- "The State Department is principally responsible for administering U.S. immigration laws outside of the United States. Consular officers, a branch of our diplomatic corps, issue several kinds of visas for visitors and for permanent immigrants...... Beginning in 1997, the 19 hijackers submitted 24 applications and received 23 visas."
- "The 19 hijackers entered the United States a total of 33 times. They arrived through ten different airports, though more than half came in through Miami, JFK, or Newark. A visitor with a tourist visa was usually admitted for a stay of six months. All but two of the hijackers were admitted for such stays. Hanjour had a student visa and was admitted for a stay of two years, and Suqami sought and was admitted for a stay of 20 days."
So all the terrorists entered the U.S. on legal visas, although the data presented to acquire the visa was not alway truthful and some violated the terms of the visa by changing their status while in the U.S. or overstaying their visa.
It is true that since 9-11 there have been a number of terrorists who have been caught trying to enter the U.S. via Canada.
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I found SNL not to be that funny last night. I don't think the "debate" was funny. BUT, I thought the Huckabee "interview" was really funny. It was hard to get him to leave after the "interview" although he said he'd bow out of the race with grace and honor. That was a funny script.
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I have always liked John McCain. I am one of those moderate republicans that the conservatives don't consider real republicans. I am for strong defense (my hubby is retired military) and am fiscally conservative (don't favor big government and want lower taxes). I am socially moderate as is John McCain. I am worried about universal health care and I don't want to see our health care suffer as it has in the UK (where my daughter lives) and Canada. We are the leader in health care and I want us to stay that way. However, I do not want cuts in money for research and want to see more people able to get health insurance. I have never like the Clintons as I don't trust them. I think that Obama is a nice guy but he worries me very much on national defense. I am afraid of his plan to pull out our troops and what will happen in the region when we are gone. I suspect he would withdraw the troops and we would be right back there with the problem worse than ever. When John McCain say he wants the troop in Iraq for 100 years. All he means is a small presence like we have in Korea, Bosnia, etc. It is the casualties that are important not whether we have troops there. John McCain was against the way Bush handled Iraq and put his career on the line in support of the surge (which is working) when all the other politicians were against it. The Democrats will not admit that the surge has been a success which is too bad because we owe it to our troops to honor them for the good job they have done. That my two cents worth on the subject.
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Liz, you've said everything that needs to be said (IMO).
Shirley
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You have my vote too Liz
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Thanks Beesie....that's what I knew to be true also
I got caught entering the US after I went to Niagara falls - I bought some chocolate and Border patrol didn't hear what I said so he got very angry and told me to open my trunk...but I bribed him with my chocolates and he let me back in
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