Ok I was never fast but this is pathetic.
Comments
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Lets say that even though I can chug along for a long time, I was never fast.. barely midpack in races. ( best 5k time was around 28 minutes)
But now !!! 2 weeks out of DD 4AC/4Taxol.. I did a 9 mile slug on the dreadmill and averaged 16 min/mile(3.75 mph). Doing 1 minute jog at 5 mph and 2 minute walk at 3 mph.. sometimes stretching the run a little longer. The heart rate goes really high ( it was already high before my dx) and I get winded.
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I feel almost fine except the lingering neuropathy on the balls of my feet which is jockeying for attention with my previous Neuroma which requires orthotics.
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Got my ticker checked with an echo the LVEF is at 64 % ( Muga had showed 67% before chemo but the doctor said that this measures were not point accurate ) and everything seems ok.
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There is also the 18 pound weight gain which I know is slowing me down and draining my energy..
But..
How is one to ramp back up ? How long did it take you ?
I also have a surgery coming up on February 14th(axil lymph node dissection, expander exchange and port removal) and want to crank up the training to lose some phat before i have to take it easy again after the surgery.
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Slow and steady, okay? Go too fast and you risk injury.
Nine miles on the treadmill? God, that would kill me, the boredom of it, even with the iPod or the TV.
I'm no runner, but a runner wannabe. So, I found a program at Shape magazine, I think, or on-line maybe, and use it as a guide. Doing jogging/walking intervals several times a week, and gradually decreasing the walking and bumping up the running. But only by a few minutes per week.
You've done training--I'm sure you'll work out a program for yourself. And mix it up--get back on the bike (I did spinning right after surgery, but had to go slow and light--got winded quickly. I was anemic and didn't know it!) or into the pool.
Congrats on getting back into it. Make sure you're getting adequate protein after for recovery, and take a day off between workouts--at least for now. Common sense stuff is hard, though, when you want to get back to what your normal was before all this crap interrupted your life!
Anne
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You're probably familiar with all of the walk-to-run programs around, especially the Cool Running "Couch-to-5K" one, so I should think that what you're already doing will do the trick and help you build up to speed. BUT, I will offer that, for me, it wasn't nearly as much about finding just the right training plan but, rather, all about letting time put me back where I wanted to be. I "ran" all the way through treatment, but was probably doing something like a 20-minute mile (I never checked)> It was enough for me to get on the treadmil and put one foot in front of the other everyday and keep it up for 45 minutes. After treatment, I can't say that I felt even close to truly energetic for at least 6-8 months, if not longer. Now, I look back and can't believe how exhausted I was!
Take it easy, girl, and just keep plugging away at it. You'll be so pleasantly surprised as you make progress. But if I were you, I'd take away either the clock or the distance counter and just determine that you'll walk/run for 2 hours, for eg., and then get off or that you'll do 10 miles and stop. It's never productive to beat yourself up. Don't most of us do enough of that?
~Marin
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Trigeek, I've been out of chemo since September 7 and ended rads day before Thanksgiving. All I can say is that I'm getting stronger all the time. You will be so surprised at how quickly you really will get your old self back. You are awesome to be covering the distance. You are doing more than most. Way to go! And you are getting stronger all the time.
One thing that was suggested was to increase my protein. It really helped. Great for muscle repair.
Keep doing what you are doing.
Debbie
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Thanks gals for all your input,
Anne, yes I am doing the walk/jog no way I could run the 9 miles.. not even 1 mile even at a slow pace and forgot to add that each treadmill has a tv on it and I did the 9 miler with a friend you know how gals could chat forever lol. I am a spinning instructor and am currently leading the classes, it is challenging to talk to the participants and do the spin class at the same time but I get off my bike once in a while and manage it.
Marin yes actually I always have been a walk/jogger on longer distances. As you know I was shooting for the inaugural Breast Cancer Marathon in Jacksonville on February 17th and have a group of 10 who were supposed to do the half mary with me - so I have been training with the slowest one making sure that she gets the distance in, after we do a 11 miler I will back off and do as you suggested makes more sense. BUT they scheduled my axillary node dissection,implant exchanges, port removal surgery on the 14th(what a valentines day present heh) so it seems like I might not be even going and hanging around the finish line (I am still working on it it is a 2.5 hour drive I think I should be fine, will ask my BS's and PS's permission if I promise to stay really stabledespite the drain situation)I WANT TO BE THERE !!!
Thanks Debbie, yes I have been focusing to increase my good protein intake (mostly free range chicken/eggs, fish, 3 oz steak 1-2 times week,legumes once a week)
What you all are saying makes sense in my brain however I have a stupid feeling in my heart that if I come back to my pre-dx speed/endurance I have beaten the c sh.t.. although in reality it has nothing to do with the bc ( since I had the bc when I was performing ok) but actually it is about beating the chemo poison out of my system.
Like someone quoted from a book:
'Cancer is a strange disease as after the treatment you feel worse than when you started it'
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My 1st run post chemo (3 weeks or so) was devastating! I couldn't run for 30 seconds - and I'd tried to stay very active through chemo. The lingering fatigue I think took me almost a year to be rid of. I did get my energy back - but it was slow and steady - I did a 10 km race 1 month after rads and finished in the same time as before breast cancer - sloooooooooooooowwwwwww as usual - about 67 minutes.
Since then - with my running friends, I've done several half marathons - love them - 2 Around the Bay's (30k) and 1 full marathon. I'm 52 - and I'm fitter now then I've been in my adult life. I still struggle to maintain the same weight - when I took off some time after the marathon - and struggled to get back to running regularly, I put on 15 pounds....but now I'm back to running regularly - and absolutely love it!
Keep it up - slow and steady.
One thing I do find is my balance is a little unsteady - I've had more falls in the past years - ice, uneven pavement etc.
Janet
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Wow- 9 miles- you're way ahead of me. I am still doing walk/run only a couple of times a week- I finished chemo on 10/6/07 and rads on 12/18/07- feeling better everyday but still tire more easily than before. I am thrilled just to be getting back to running. I am very similar to you in not being superfast- my best half marathon time was 2:10.
My focus right now is on enjoying my workouts and having them be something that contributes to me feeling good. Also being careful not to overdo it since I had a knee injury last yeat that was very stubborn about healing- now seems good and I want to keep it that way.
Prior to my dx I had been in a long period of striving for...whatever, my degree, workout goals, etc., sacrificing the present for the future all too often. I'm done with that. I am also reconsidering whether long distance running is right for me as far as health/immune system issues. I read recently (sorry -forget where) that intense exercise up to a certain point (time spent) is an immune booster, but beyond a certain point lowers immune function. Wish I could recall the details better. Then again there are a number of examples of people with cancer/HIV who do marathons and triathalon who don't seem any the worse for it. As far as the speed issue. My experience is losing weight helps with that and once you've built up a base adding some speedwork- I've always been a fan of fartlek/telephone poles versus track workouts- esp. with some music added in- just writing this puts me in a good mood remembering good times of running/rocking out!
I say let's have fun out there! Allyson
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Speaking of fartleks, I'm 5 months post chemo and rads done 2.5 months ago, and last night I did speed workout with my running buddies for the first time since this joy ride began.
I held my own for the most part over 5 miles of speed on hills and doing indian style running with some rests in between. And I felt really good. In the end, I did sort of peter out a bit.
Running has become more consistent and I definitely feel stronger everyday. I did an 8.3 mile run earlier this week. Planning to do 10 on Saturday. I'm running 5 days a week. Again, I offer this up as a gauge.
I do find myself ready for bed by 9 pm. I don't have the endurance over the course of the day that I used to. Multi-tasking at work is still an effort. I have to write everything down that I'm thinking of doing next. But along with my physical strength, it is getting better.
Debbie
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I'm at the beginning of my cancer trek and in my mind have been comparing it to a marathon. It was good to find your posts about chemo and running and how you felt. Running has always been my outlet and have missed it immensely since my surgery in Jan. Saturday will be my first day back after 3 and a half weeks. So much for being ready for Boston. I find out today what the rest of the plan will be. Glad I found you.
laurel
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Hey Laurel, did you register for Boston? I'm sure you can get a deferral. I'm in the Boston area. Great marathon.
Debbie
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sure did. I signed up back the end of sept or begin of oct. Who knew// There are 4 of us going. Two cheer leaders and two runners. Might have to mix that up a bit though. I went to see the oncologist today and will be doing 4 ac cycles every two weeks then 4 taxol cycles every two and then 6 weeks of rads. He has been the only one encouraging me to go to boston but says not to have high expectations of a time. The experience is my only desire not the time at this point.
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Wow I am impressed Laureal a Boston qualifier ! Since you have competed in marathons the chemo side effects might be familiar if you have really pushed it at any race.
My post chemo side effects were very similar to post Ironman feelings -- all body systems crying out , every possible GI problem,flulike body ache.. inability to sleep(steroids) .. throwing up. So I guess when the chemo truck hit me I was able to deal with it pretty good mentally knowing that my body is capable of recovering from it eventually with time.
Janet your post is giving me hope !
Allyson I agree with your view, I am a lot slower than all of you gals but like to participate in long distance IM triathlons. Well being that slow means that I am working out A LOT of hours to get the miles in ! I also wondered what I exposed my body to during those 15-20 hours training weeks ( along with maintaining a full time job, 2 teenage girls and a husband) from now on 1/2 Ironman triathlons will be my limit. ( unless I somehow win the Kona- Hawaii lottery.. then I will train for that one for sure)
But the good news is my last chemo was on 1/11 and see how my workouts are getting better ( heart rate going down ) about 2.5 weeks out of chemo ,so there is light at the end of the tunnel ! If only I can stop eating junk !!! I still have about 15-20 pounds to shed off ( weight gain since diagnosis), and I would like to do that before going on to tamox.
1 min jog/ 2 min walk
1/28 - 3 mile avhr/maxhr-168/189
1/30 - 3 mile 42:00 min 14 min/mile avhr/maxhr - 153/181
1/31 - 2.85 41:00 min 14:24 min/mile avhr/max-142/185Ohh and I cancelled the axillary node dissection surgery and will only be getting the expander replacement on February 14. So hoping my recovery from that one will be easier, still no workouts for 6 weeks to keep the 'new girls' secure in their own homes before the rads hit them.
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Laurel, I did the Mt Washington Road Race in NH the day after chemo #2 (AC) and the Komen Boston 3-day (60 miler) at a fast walking pace (no running allowed) (we were among the top ten first to arrive at each pit stop) a week after chemo 5 (taxotere).
You can do Boston. Let me know (bomber410@yahoo.com). I'll come cheer you on. I've done it a few times. And what a trip to say you did it. Who cares about the time.
You go girl!
Debbie
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Bomber410-- now your username is making sense !!! YOU ARE AN ANIMAL !!!
Laurel keep us posted on how things are going .
Aylin
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So glad I found this conversation! I'm newly diagnosed (IDC, <2 cm, stage??, nodes??, ER+/PR+, HER2-), and haven't started treatment yet. (Lumpectomy and SLNB scheduled for Feb. 26, will find out more about about chemo recommendations soon.)
I love to run, am reasonably competitive at the master's level, and find running a huge source of comfort and just plain enjoyment. I'm hoping that I'll at least be able to jog slowly - or maybe just walk real fast? - through much of whatever my treatment turns out to be. I'm worried, though, not just about the immediate effects of treatment, but the longterm impact on my cardiac function and ability to run even semi-competitively.
I know (I'm not a complete running lunatic!) that the important thing is to beat this disease, not to beat my PRs (not so likely anyhow, at 46). Still, I think that everyone who's diagnosed goes through a kind of mourning/loss process, and in my case, some of that involves my running plans and ambitions.
Which I know sounds really, really weird to anyone who's not a runner...and why it was so cool to find other folks talking about fartleks and speed workouts and Boston and Around the Bay.
So - all the best to all of you!!
Linda
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Linda, I'm glad you found us but sorry about why. I know others will chyme in but running, and near the end of chemo, walking/running, was a real source of empowerment and having a sense of control. Make no mistake, if chemo is involved, it will take some wind out of your sails. But going into this with your fitness level will help in big ways. Advice I was given was to make sure I was out and doing every day, especially when I didn't want to be. Running buddies can do a lot to help.
Where are you located?
Debbie
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I definitely found that excercising during chemo helped minimize side effects and contributed to me getting through it with no weight gain. Bomber/debbie I am so impressed that you could keep going to the degree that you did. After the first 4 or so weeks it was mainly fast walking for me. I absolutely share the experience of exercise giving me a sense of control and empowerment. Between surgery and chemo I was able to do some bike rides that were part of me getting back on track feeling like I was strong and overall pretty healthy. Now that I am starting to recover from treatment the exercise continues to be important- it's encouraging to see that week by week my stamina is improving and I'm enjoying workouts more versus dragging myself through them. Allyson
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Debbie, Allyson (and others) - thanks so much for your words of encouragement. Debbie, I'm located in the Detroit area. One of the things that's bumming me out - but that may in the end be a blessing in disguise - is that last year was kinda a bust for me, running-wise...I started out inconsistent (some good races, some lousy races), then was hobbled by a hamstring injury followed by plantar fasciitis, then had an insane work schedule through the fall. So, just as I was getting back in shape and setting goals for 2008 (like running a fast half marathon in the spring and seeking out more cross country races) - BAM!
The reason I say "blessing in disguise" is that dealing with injury last year taught me about backing off, being gentler with myself, and just taking pleasure in whatever my body allows me to do. I know that's the approach I'll need to carry with me through treatment.
(But in the meantime, it's still fun to push myself a little. I did my regular Tuesday night group run - 8 miles - with three other women last night. We started out easy for the first 3, then picked it up for the next 3, then picked it up a little more when we spotted the slowest of the guys within catching distance, then finished with a 6:55 last mile. All of this while jumping over puddles and feeling the sting of freezing rain on our faces: exhilarating.)
As the chemo slows me down, I'm hoping to read all kinds of great reports from those of you who're through treatment and speeding up again!
Linda
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hmmm...let's see if I've finally figured out how to generate my diagnosis on the signature line.
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Linda, Exhilarating is the word! I can just feel that sense that one is 'fleet of foot'. Keep it going. What I did do for my comeback is to aim for days out running and not beat myself up (too much) for lack of speed, but you will be dog tired.
At least for me, by staying consistent with getting out there, like Allyson says, each day you'll feel yourself getting stronger and stronger.
Just came back from a muddy, muddy, wet, wet trail run. And to add to the fun, I ran through a field covered in rain-soaked manure. Yum! But I hit enough other water holes to clean my shoes off before returning home. Yes, EXHILARATING!
Debbie
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Debbie and all-
This thread has been so good for me. Debbie- your post motivated me to get out the door for a walk/run in the mud and drizzle. I am so tired from a busy day yesterday that I have been dragging around the house all morning, really if you hadn't inspired me I wouldn't have gone out. It was so great to get out there even though it was "just" 20 minutes (I am accepting that at this point anything I do is pretty good and definitely better than nothing!). I feel better and actually less tired and more with it than I felt all morning.
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mornin girls,
Yesterday was a right off as far as running. Well I kinda did run from one appointment to another to another. Muga, cat scan and chemo school. Anyway today was going to be the day for hills. Only I have to get through 10 inches of knew fallen snow on the hills. I think it will be shovel the driveway again. I see an eliptical in my future....
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The elliptical has been great for me. Chemo school...that's a good name for it! I did my little 20 minute walk/run today. I'm curious to see how long it will take before I can run the whole thing and start adding on- no rush though- I am taking this S-L-O-W
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Hi girls,
I managed to get out for a run for an hour on friday and sunday and two on saturday. Feels good or for the most part it did. I can't wait for spring and to have all this snow gone and there won't be dodging puddles and ice. How can you tell I am a fair weather bird. That eliptical// Gets delivered on friday.. Tomorrow is my first cocktail of 8. I figure that will take me to mile 3 1/4. Just warming up. Take care everyone and happy trails
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Nice running Wetcoast. I got out for a few this weekend as well. 8.5 hills on the road on Saturday and 2 hours in the snowy woods on Sunday. I certainly don't have speed but the surroundings were just beautiful.
I'm tipping a glass of wine to you as I type.
Happy trails,
Debbie
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so far so good.I was at the clinic for about 2 hours and learned how to give myself the neupogen shot.(think it is going to be my dh)and got to about 3 1/4 miles or there abouts. Definitely needed my blankie to warm up though. Had to try a second vein but other than that everything went pretty good. Tonight I have a bit of headache and just really lazy. I am going to stick to the drug plan like glue. How was the second and third days after chemo for you? I think part of my headache is our poor old dog. We have called the vet to come and make a house call. Shadow has been our family companion for going on 17 years now and it is hard to say good bye. Oh well. 1 down 7 to go// definitely in a fog
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An absolutely gorgeous day for a run. Nothing but blue sky with low plus temps. I will take it anytime. I think I have been rather fortunate with my first round of chemo in that the nausea meds really worked and had just a couple of days where I was kinda achy. I hope that it doesn't mean it is not working! My dh is doing my neupogen shots each night and is so gentle. One of these days I'll take the plunge. ....Oh my gosh I am so warped ha ha. I hope everyone is fairing well hugs laurel
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I love the dark humor...it's the only way to go sometimes. Glad you are doing well with the chemo. The anti-nausea drugs worked great for me- I had essentially zero nausea during my whole tx. Did feel achy or generally crummy at times.
It is a sparkling winter day here. The sky is SO blue. No running but my daughter and I skated for an hour or so on our neighbor's pond. So much fun and a great work out.
Allyson
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Bomber did you do any running while under going your treatment and how did you find it. I used to just go out and run for how every long I wanted but now am doing 10 and 1's. I did go out for 3 hours 15 min on sat with the first 2 hours great but the last had trouble digging in. I still really want to do Boston and I know it won't be in my qualifing time. Was also curious how long do you have to run it before they say goodnight at the gates? Still got lots of snow down there? I did my second ac tx yesterday and will try to get out for an hour but am waiting for some sun. take care laurel
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Laurel, I did run while on chemo but then towards the end it became a walk/run. And now am back to running. I am up to 11 miles and working toward a 1/2 marathon mountain trail run in April 12.
For Boston, I think the cut off time is 6 hours. Since the race starts at 10:30, that means they close up the finish area at 4:45 pm.
Feel free to email me directly if you decide to come. There is a bus to the start that leaves from a nearby town - Topsfield. There are plenty of others but that's the one for my running club and you would be more than welcome. email bomber410@yahoo.com.
And if you come, I can meet you on top of Heartbreak or wherever and run in with you.
The snow comes and goes. It's been great for skiing, snowshoeing and snowmobiling.
You can do it!
Debbie
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