Flax seeds?

Comments

  • apium
    apium Member Posts: 70
    edited December 2007

    I have been taking 2-3 tbs of flaxseeds daily and 1 tbs of flax oil daily.  I am now noticing quite a bit of vagina lubrication where I was very dry.  Have any of you taking flax noticed this?  Just wondering if this is normal?

  • lisametoo
    lisametoo Member Posts: 187
    edited January 2008
    Here's everything you ever wanted to know about the wonderful flax seed:  http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tname=foodspice&dbid=81
  • lisametoo
    lisametoo Member Posts: 187
    edited January 2008
    Here is more on flax and lignans taken from http://www.womenlivingnaturaly.com/  

    Flaxseed-Lignans

    Flaxseed contains several extraordinary properties that make them exceptional at warding off breast cancer.  Their most notable quality-they contain 100 times more cancer-fighting lignans than any other known edible plant! Just two to three tablespoons of ground flaxseeds a day can deter and arrest the growth of breast cancer in many different ways.

    8 WAYS THAT LIGNANS PROTECT

    1.  Helps lower the production of estrogen

    Estrogen has been directly linked to the growth of breast cancer.  The more estrogen a woman is exposed to over her lifetime, the higher her risk of breast cancer is.  Aromatase is an enzyme involved in the production of estrogen.  If this enzyme is blocked, the level of estrogen in the body will go down and so will the risk of breast cancer.  This is exactly how the anti-breast cancer drug Arimidex works.  Lignans block the aromatase enzyme too.  Researchers at the University of Totonto in a 2005 study reported that lignans inhibit the aromatase enzyme.

    2.  Blocks the estrogen receptor similar to Tamoxifen

    Lignans are considered a phytoestrogen or plant estrogen.  They act as very weak estrogens and may block the estrogen receptors in the breast from stronger cancer-stimulating estrogens in a similar way to the drug Tamoxifen.

    3.  Creates more of a "good" protective type of estrogen

    Estrogen is metabolized in the liver and broken down into three different metabolotes: 2-OH estrone, 4-OH estrone and 16-alpha OH estrone.  The 2-OH estrone is considered a "good" kind of estrogen because it does not stimulate the growth of breast cancer cells, whereas the 4-OH and 16-alpha OH estrone do-that's why they are considered "bad" types of estrogen.  Lignans influence how estrogen breaks down and help to create more of the "good" kind of estrogen and reduce the "bad".

    4.  Helps make breast tissue more resistant to the damaging effects of environmental toxins.

    Researchers have found that the architecture of the breast can vary.  The foods we eat have a direct effect on its structure.  Certain states are more susceptible to damage by toxins and carcinogens while others are more resistant.  When the breast tissue is in a well-differentiated condition, it is the most resistant to damage.  In a study conducted by V.E. Ward and Lillian Thompson at the University of Toronto, rats developed the most differentiated breast tissue when fed purified lignans.

    5.  Helps stop tumor cell growth

    In a study conducted at the University of Florida and published in 2002, two types of lignans found that flaxseeds called enterodio and enterolactone were found to inhibit the growth of both breast and colon cancer cells.

    6.  Helps lower chances of metastasis

    When tumors metastasize or spread to other areas of the body, the chances of surviving drastically fall.  Studies show that flaxseeds-high in dietary lignans-may substantially decreases the incidence of metastasis.  In a study published in the journal of Nutrition and Cancer 2002, rats fed a diet high in flaxseeds had an 82 percent lower incidence of spreading metastasis compared to the controls.

    7.  May block new blood vessel growth in tumors

    For tumors to grow larger, they must have new blood vessels growing into them to supply them with more oxygen and nutrients.  New blood vessel growth- also referred to as angiogenesis- is stimulated by a growth factor called vascular endotheal growth factor (VEGF).  Angiogenesis can be blocked if VEGF is inhibited-something the lignans in flaxseeds may do.  According to a study published in Cancer Letters in 2002, animals fed a supplement of 10 percent flaxseeds were found to have a significantly decreased level of VEGF.

    8.  Lengthens the menstrual cycle

    With each menstrual period a surge of estradiol, the strongest and most abundant type of natural estrogen and the one most associated with an increased risk of breast cancer, is released.  The more menstrual periods a woman has over her lifetime, the more estradiol she produces, and the higher her risk of breast cancer.  If a woman's period, for example, is lengthened from 28 days to over 32 days, the number of periods she will have over her lifetime will be lower and so will her risk of breast cancer.  A 1993 study conducted at the University of Rochester found that lignans consumption prolonged the luteal phase of ovulation causing the menstrual cycle to lengthen.

    MANY ANTI-CANCER EFFECTS THAT ADD UP

    All of these anti-cancer effects of lignans add up to big protection.  Numerous studies show that women with high lignan levels have low incidences of breast cancer, and those with low lignans levels have a high rate of breast cancer.  For example, a study published in 2002 in the journal Cancer Epidemiology, Biomarkers, and Prevention tested the urine of women for lignans-an indication of how much they consume.  They found that women with breast cancer on the average had substantially lower levels of lignans than healthy women.  In another study published in 2001, Finnish women with high serum enterolactone, a type of lignan, had significantly lower incidences of breast cancer.

    LOWERING YOUR RISK SIMPLY AND NATURALLY

    Every women is at risk for breast cancer.  Fortunately, it is a disease where the odds of developing it can be dramatically reduced simply and naturally.  Consuming plenty of lignans every day by eating two to three tablespoons of ground flaxseeds-or even more simply-by taking flaxseed in capsule form, can provide substantial protection.  And if you have breast cancer, lignans may help you successfully fight your disease and live a long, healthy life.  All women can benefit from the simple addition of lignans to their diet.  Why wait to be diagnosed with breast cancer to begin?

  • lisametoo
    lisametoo Member Posts: 187
    edited January 2008
    Here is more on flax and lignans taken from http://www.womenlivingnaturaly.com/  

    Flaxseed-Lignans

    Flaxseed contains several extraordinary properties that make them exceptional at warding off breast cancer.  Their most notable quality-they contain 100 times more cancer-fighting lignans than any other known edible plant! Just two to three tablespoons of ground flaxseeds a day can deter and arrest the growth of breast cancer in many different ways.

    8 WAYS THAT LIGNANS PROTECT

    1.  Helps lower the production of estrogen

    Estrogen has been directly linked to the growth of breast cancer.  The more estrogen a woman is exposed to over her lifetime, the higher her risk of breast cancer is.  Aromatase is an enzyme involved in the production of estrogen.  If this enzyme is blocked, the level of estrogen in the body will go down and so will the risk of breast cancer.  This is exactly how the anti-breast cancer drug Arimidex works.  Lignans block the aromatase enzyme too.  Researchers at the University of Totonto in a 2005 study reported that lignans inhibit the aromatase enzyme.

    2.  Blocks the estrogen receptor similar to Tamoxifen

    Lignans are considered a phytoestrogen or plant estrogen.  They act as very weak estrogens and may block the estrogen receptors in the breast from stronger cancer-stimulating estrogens in a similar way to the drug Tamoxifen.

    3.  Creates more of a "good" protective type of estrogen

    Estrogen is metabolized in the liver and broken down into three different metabolotes: 2-OH estrone, 4-OH estrone and 16-alpha OH estrone.  The 2-OH estrone is considered a "good" kind of estrogen because it does not stimulate the growth of breast cancer cells, whereas the 4-OH and 16-alpha OH estrone do-that's why they are considered "bad" types of estrogen.  Lignans influence how estrogen breaks down and help to create more of the "good" kind of estrogen and reduce the "bad".

    4.  Helps make breast tissue more resistant to the damaging effects of environmental toxins.

    Researchers have found that the architecture of the breast can vary.  The foods we eat have a direct effect on its structure.  Certain states are more susceptible to damage by toxins and carcinogens while others are more resistant.  When the breast tissue is in a well-differentiated condition, it is the most resistant to damage.  In a study conducted by V.E. Ward and Lillian Thompson at the University of Toronto, rats developed the most differentiated breast tissue when fed purified lignans.

    5.  Helps stop tumor cell growth

    In a study conducted at the University of Florida and published in 2002, two types of lignans found that flaxseeds called enterodio and enterolactone were found to inhibit the growth of both breast and colon cancer cells.

    6.  Helps lower chances of metastasis

    When tumors metastasize or spread to other areas of the body, the chances of surviving drastically fall.  Studies show that flaxseeds-high in dietary lignans-may substantially decreases the incidence of metastasis.  In a study published in the journal of Nutrition and Cancer 2002, rats fed a diet high in flaxseeds had an 82 percent lower incidence of spreading metastasis compared to the controls.

    7.  May block new blood vessel growth in tumors

    For tumors to grow larger, they must have new blood vessels growing into them to supply them with more oxygen and nutrients.  New blood vessel growth- also referred to as angiogenesis- is stimulated by a growth factor called vascular endotheal growth factor (VEGF).  Angiogenesis can be blocked if VEGF is inhibited-something the lignans in flaxseeds may do.  According to a study published in Cancer Letters in 2002, animals fed a supplement of 10 percent flaxseeds were found to have a significantly decreased level of VEGF.

    8.  Lengthens the menstrual cycle

    With each menstrual period a surge of estradiol, the strongest and most abundant type of natural estrogen and the one most associated with an increased risk of breast cancer, is released.  The more menstrual periods a woman has over her lifetime, the more estradiol she produces, and the higher her risk of breast cancer.  If a woman's period, for example, is lengthened from 28 days to over 32 days, the number of periods she will have over her lifetime will be lower and so will her risk of breast cancer.  A 1993 study conducted at the University of Rochester found that lignans consumption prolonged the luteal phase of ovulation causing the menstrual cycle to lengthen.

    MANY ANTI-CANCER EFFECTS THAT ADD UP

    All of these anti-cancer effects of lignans add up to big protection.  Numerous studies show that women with high lignan levels have low incidences of breast cancer, and those with low lignans levels have a high rate of breast cancer.  For example, a study published in 2002 in the journal Cancer Epidemiology, Biomarkers, and Prevention tested the urine of women for lignans-an indication of how much they consume.  They found that women with breast cancer on the average had substantially lower levels of lignans than healthy women.  In another study published in 2001, Finnish women with high serum enterolactone, a type of lignan, had significantly lower incidences of breast cancer.

    LOWERING YOUR RISK SIMPLY AND NATURALLY

    Every women is at risk for breast cancer.  Fortunately, it is a disease where the odds of developing it can be dramatically reduced simply and naturally.  Consuming plenty of lignans every day by eating two to three tablespoons of ground flaxseeds-or even more simply-by taking flaxseed in capsule form, can provide substantial protection.  And if you have breast cancer, lignans may help you successfully fight your disease and live a long, healthy life.  All women can benefit from the simple addition of lignans to their diet.  Why wait to be diagnosed with breast cancer to begin?

  • genesis
    genesis Member Posts: 124
    edited January 2008

    Lisa, you are a BLESSING.....thank you for plugging away with GREAT information!!!!!!

    Genesis

  • TenderIsOurMight
    TenderIsOurMight Member Posts: 4,493
    edited March 2008



    American Cancer Society



    Can Phytoestrogens Reduce Breast Cancer Risk and Treat Menopause?



    Atlanta 2007/09/12 -A new review says phytoestrogens may have both a protective role and a stimulatory role in breast cancer cell growth depending on several factors, including at what age they’re consumed and whether they’re consumed as food or as supplement.



    The report appears in the September/October 2007 issue of CA: A Cancer Journal for Clinicians, a peer-reviewed journal of the American Cancer Society.



    "Interest in phytoestrogens gained momentum from epidemiologic studies suggesting that women from countries with high consumption of soy, which has significant levels of phytoestrogens, have less risk of breast cancer. In addition to their potential role in reducing the risk of breast cancer, phytoestrogens have also begun to be used by many women with a history of breast cancer in the belief that they are a safer way to treat menopausal symptoms, which are more common among breast cancer survivors.



    In their review, Christine Duffy, M.D. and Kimberly Perez, M.D. of Brown University and Ann Partridge of Harvard University say interpreting research studies of phytoestrogen intake and breast cancer risk has been hampered by differences in dietary measurement, lack of standardization of supplemental sources, differences in metabolism among individuals, and the retrospective nature of most of the research in this area. The authors say data regarding the role of phytoestrogens in breast cancer prevention is conflicting, but that it suggests early exposure in childhood or early adolescence may have a protective effect. They add that there is very little human data on the role of phytoestrogens in preventing breast cancer recurrence, but the few studies conducted do not support a protective role. In fact, some animal data suggests the phytoestrogen genistein could interfere with the inhibitive effects of tamoxifen on breast cancer cell growth.



    Animal studies and lab studies of breast cancer cells suggest the timing of exposure to phytoestrogens may be a key component in determining its effects, with animal data consistent with a protective effect of soy when consumed before puberty. This is consistent with epidemiologic studies in Asian countries where women have exposure early in life. Still, the authors say caution is warranted in interpreting those results, most of which were conducted in Asian countries. Genetic differences in phytoestrogen metabolism and estrogen exposure make extrapolation to non-Asian populations questionable.



    Meanwhile, the authors say there is no compelling evidence that phytoestrogens help menopausal symptoms, and given potential concerns for stimulating breast cancer cell growth, it should not be recommended for use to treat these symptoms in post-menopausal women. In particular, they say, women taking tamoxifen should be cautioned against the use of soy supplements and purified products.



    The authors say while data are insufficient to conclude that supplements are less beneficial (or more harmful) than dietary intake of phytoestrogens, research does suggest that processed products may have detrimental effects compared with soy flour and tofu, the sources most commonly consumed in Asian countries with low incidence of breast cancer. They say the consumption of high-dose isoflavone supplements by women at high risk or by breast cancer survivors cannot be recommended.



    The authors say several federally funded trials are currently being conducted to try to address some of the unanswered questions regarding phytoestrogens and breast cancer. Until then, consuming naturally occurring soy products such as tofu or soy flour as part of a balanced diet low in saturated fats and high in fruits and vegetables is likely safe and perhaps even beneficial. Women should also be aware of emerging evidence that suggests avoiding weight gain after a breast cancer diagnosis may help prevent recurrence."



    Article: "Implications of Phytoestrogen Intake for Breast Cancer" CA Cancer J Clin 2007;57:260-277.

    3 Tablespoons of Flax is quite a bit, imo. I like the nutty taste of the seed, but alas gave it up until more is clear. If you're getting the SE you mention in your post, it's enought to stimulate those vaginal estrogen cells, so one might wonder what other estrogen tissue/cells it may be stimulating too.
    All the best to you,T.





  • lisametoo
    lisametoo Member Posts: 187
    edited January 2008

    http://www.grouppekurosawa.com/nutrition.htm

    I doesn't get any clearer than this on Lignans. 

  • Rosemary44
    Rosemary44 Member Posts: 2,660
    edited January 2008

    Well, one human study was done on women preparing to have  surgery to remove their tumor.  The study lasted for approximately 37 days, and eating flax helped either reduce the size of the tumor, or stopped its growth.  Maybe it did both.  But not as much as tamoxifen would have done during the same time period.

    What we need to know is what are the outcomes of long term use for us while taking an AI?  I've read, in one study, that eating flax and taking tamox went hand in hand.  They work in synergy together. Now that I think about it more, the tamox and flax study could have been on rodents also.   So where are the long term human studies for us on AI's?  Mice don't count.

  • lisametoo
    lisametoo Member Posts: 187
    edited January 2008

    Dear Rosemary,

    I've tried my best to find the human trials.  Do you realize why human trials with natural substances are difficult to find?  Flax seeds are cheap!  They are not patentable.  There is NO money in it for the drug companies.  They WILL NOT finance a study unless they can convert the natural ingredient into a drug with similar results.   Flax seeds and oil have been used in human health for over 5000 years.  They are mentioned in the bible several times.  The anecedotal evidence is so over-whelming that it should be a no-brainer to include them in your protocol. Here is the human trial study on the metabolism in flax compared to soy:  http://biblioteca.sp.san.gva.es/biblioteca/publicaciones/MATERIAL/METABUSQUEDAS/MUJER/14749240.PDF

    I am ever-diligent in my searching.  Please let me know what I can find for you.  I devote about 4-5 hours per day.  I'm not ready to let my Mom go without a fight!

    Lisa

  • TenderIsOurMight
    TenderIsOurMight Member Posts: 4,493
    edited March 2008



    Lisa, I don't think that this is true, that the cheapness of natural phytoestrogens prohibit clinical trials on them. Here's a quote from my post above:



    "The authors say several federally funded trials are currently being conducted to try to address some of the unanswered questions regarding phytoestrogens and breast cancer."



    Taken from the journal "Cancer", October 2007, the authors list the four ongoing federal clinical trials on phytoestrogens, I believe all on soy, not flax. Researchers wish to see this back and forth about soy answered also, and they have put up money and time to do so. Presumably, flax would be studied next.



    On flax, the article in Cancer, October 2007 said too, take care if one's tumor reveals ER+ status until human studies are concluded.



    Let's try to keep open minds, and await the definitive controlled human soy trials which are ongoing. Some answers should come in the next year or so as I recall. We could always pull the full article and check on the date. In the meantime though, ER+ patients should be aware that current advice by breast cancer oncologists is to avoid soy and flax by and large.



    All the best,

    Tender

  • Rosemary44
    Rosemary44 Member Posts: 2,660
    edited January 2008

    Lisa,

    Thanks for the offer to do research.  Don't you wish we knew what we know today, before BC? 

    About the flax, it really is all according to what part of this process we are in.  If we're in the part where we're fighting and fending this disease off, then I'd be eating flax every morning.

    The part of this process for a lot of us is, we are hopefully ned, taking AI's that might be working, and don't know anything about what flax will do to us while taking an AI.  There's not even a whisper if we would be doing ourselves in, or doing ourselves good by eating flax daily.  Would it put our AI out of business for us, or does it enhance its performance, does it make the drug too strong, too weak?  We just don't know.

    For myself, I don't hesitate to eat anything with flax in it.  I just don't go out of my way to look for foods with flax in there till we know more.

  • lisametoo
    lisametoo Member Posts: 187
    edited January 2008

    Hi Rosemary,

    Here is an excellent site:  http://lpi.oregonstate.edu/infocenter/phytochemicals/lignans/  I would be happy to pose your question for you to Dr. Martin who is the scientist for grouppekurosawa.  He's a very busy man, and has replied to me before, so hopefully he will again.  I'll be posting as soon as I find out! 

    :0)Lisa

  • BlindedByScience
    BlindedByScience Member Posts: 314
    edited January 2008

    Here's one of the few human clinical trials I've seen using flaxseed. The number of participants is VERY SMALL, but the results were quite interesting--eating 25 g (3 tablespoons) of flaxseed daily reduced the Ki-67 and erb2 scores of the treatment group between the two test periods--at initial core biopsy and after tumor removal. This was a treatment length of approximately 4 weeks. The subject group were postmenopausal women. The entire article can be found at the link:

    Dietary Flaxseed Alters Tumor Biological Markers in Postmenopausal Breast Cancer  

    Purpose: Flaxseed, the richest source of mammalian lignan precursors, has previously been shown to reduce the growth of tumors in rats. This study examined, in a randomized double-blind placebo-controlled clinical trial, the effects of dietary flaxseed on tumor biological markers and urinary lignan excretion in postmenopausal patients with newly diagnosed breast cancer.


    Experimental Design: Patients were randomized to daily intake of either a 25 g flaxseed-containing muffin (n = 19) or a control (placebo) muffin (n = 13). At the time of diagnosis and again at definitive surgery, tumor tissue was analyzed for the rate of tumor cell proliferation (Ki-67 labeling index, primary end point), apoptosis, c-erbB2 expression, and estrogen and progesterone receptor levels. Twenty-four-hour urine samples were analyzed for lignans, and 3-day diet records were evaluated for macronutrient and caloric intake. Mean treatment times were 39 and 32 days in the placebo and flaxseed groups, respectively.


    Results: Reductions in Ki-67 labeling index (34.2%; P = 0.001) and in c-erbB2 expression (71.0%; P = 0.003) and an increase in apoptosis (30.7%; P = 0.007) were observed in the flaxseed, but not in the placebo group. No significant differences in caloric and macronutrient intake were seen between groups and between pre- and posttreatment periods. A significant increase in mean urinary lignan excretion was observed in the flaxseed group (1,300%; P < 0.01) compared with placebo controls. The total intake of flaxseed was correlated with changes in c-erbB2 score (r = -0.373; P = 0.036) and apoptotic index (r = 0.495; P < 0.004).


    Conclusion: Dietary flaxseed has the potential to reduce tumor growth in patients with breast cancer.

  • Rosemary44
    Rosemary44 Member Posts: 2,660
    edited January 2008

    Lisa,

    I meant to ask you, is you Mom eating ginger?  There is science out there on ginger and ovarian cancer.  I always have an organic ginger in my refrig for juicing.  Make sure it doesn't come from China, even their organic is suspicious.   I'll wait to read what the Doctor has to say.

  • lisametoo
    lisametoo Member Posts: 187
    edited January 2008

    This is info. from another blog I belong to at grouppekurosawa

       http://grouppekurosawa.com/blog/2005/06/not-all-flaxseed-is-same    This is great information on flax and lignans. 

  • lisametoo
    lisametoo Member Posts: 187
    edited January 2008

    Dear Rosemary,

    My mother juices each day with: apples

                                                      oranges

                                                      red grapes

                                                      ginger root

                                                      carrots

                                                      celery

                                                      red beets

    She adds a super-green also.  She follows the Budwig Protocol mainly and takes 6 other cancer inhibiting supplements. 

    The protocol is incredibly specific.  It is on a spread sheet down to the hour.  She tests her saliva Ph every couple of days, so far we've just been able to get it up to a 7.  I believe one of the main reasons she still has clinical cancer is emotional and spiritual.  I'm trying to get her to use EFT to over-come past emotional issues.  For anyone who wants to try it go to www.tapping.com.  It's free, and you just follow along with a really cute British guy named Magnus.  Thanks for the inquiry about my Mom.  She's one heck of a lady.  The mold was broken with her for sure.  Lisa

  • althea
    althea Member Posts: 1,595
    edited January 2008

    I've been eating flaxseed for breakfast since last May.  I grind it fresh daily and mix it with yogurt.  As far as the benefits from lignans are concerned, I don't know how I could know that I am indeed benefitting. 

    I certainly have high hopes for receiving benefits.  I was disappointed just last week when my cholesterol test results came back.  One of my numbers was 220, somewhat higher than desirable.  It was 3 years since it was last tested, and it was about the same level then.  I'm regretting having the test done right after Christmas, but I wonder how much change could register in just a few days?  Improved cholesteral levels is supposed to be one of the benefits of eating flaxseed.  Unfortunately, there's not an alternative way of comparing what my level would have been without any flaxseed at all.  Maybe it would've been skyhigh without the flax.  

    The other benefit that I absolutely do know I receive is relief from constipation.  It had plagued me since starting tamoxifen in 11/2005.   I've been slacking on the flaxseed for the last week, and already I'm suffering.  I will definitely continue eating it for breakfast and hope the less measurable benefits are truly there. 

  • lisametoo
    lisametoo Member Posts: 187
    edited January 2008

    Dear Rosemary,

    Dr. Martin says that flax will work synergistically with AI's.  His credentials are pretty sound.  I would believe it. 

  • Rosemary44
    Rosemary44 Member Posts: 2,660
    edited January 2008

    Lisa,

    Well that's good to hear.  I won't have to worry about the flax I do eat.  Not that I did think about it much since I'm a believer in flax.  The flax industry is doing themselves a disservice.  They need to sponsor some human research and put the soy guys out of business. 

    Sounds like you're taking very good care of your Mom.  I wish her a healthier New Year.

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