This Candidate for President?

I would hope he is talking about the huge amount of money spent in the last few months of life on people who are dying.  End of life treatment is where the huge majority of medical spending goes.

I have been in so many situations where the family says "do everything you can for Mom/Dad" and they mean machines, expensive testing and treatment as well as hospitilization, when in fact, they are actually extending the Dying, not extending Life.

In this day and age,  we are capable of extending life far beyond when a person is LIVING--just existing, only because WE CAN.

I certainly believe in preventive medicine, and treating chronic as well as acute conditions.  I do take issue with some of the end of life decisions, in fact, if some of these families had to pay for the treatment instead of Medicare (you and I), I have to wonder how many tests they would agree to.

Dotti I couldn't read any further after what you wrote.  I started to read Maryilyn's post, by I had this huge lump in my throat and now the tears are trying to come.  You are scaring me!  Do you know what doctors could do if what you are suggesting ever happens?

My daughter's stepmother-in-law has terminal breast cancer.  However, she is still fighting.  I don't know how often she gets chemo.  I do know that her doctors are amazed that's she's still alive.  Several months ago the surgeon almost suggested to give up and call hospice.  She's had some surgeries and the last time the surgeon went in to "repair" some things her tumors had multiplied. 

This woman looks horrible...lost so much weight.  But she was out shopping at Penny's the other day with the other stepdaughter-in-law and made it to our granddaughter's b'day party.

She wants to live as long as she can.  She has a brand new grandbaby who she hasn't seen yet (will at Christmas).  We have NO idea how long she'll be alive.  But thinking about the medical community and government shutting off her funds is like euthanasia. God forbid. 

Shirley

Oh Shirley, this happened to my mom too, when she was old & in a nursing home.They asked me, as her POA, to agree to a surgery inserting a feeding tube.

They said she was doing "Incomplete swallowing" (some of it was being aspirated.She HAD 3 pneumonas.)

The surgeon told me once her lungs clear up, yes a therapist would "reteach her how to swallow"

and everything would be fine.

My mother was "only" 86, but had Parkinson's for 20 years.Not in such great shape.

It sounded a very sensible and thereputic answer to the problem.

I WASNT told that a feeding VIA a tube takes HOURS.The patient is essentially bedridden and getting feedings most of the day&night.

They also didnt tell me that patients in their 89s are not good candidates for anesthesia & should only be anestithised for life-threatening reasons.

My mother awoke after her surgery, spoke to me, (and told me to drive carefully).

That was the last time I saw her.

She went to sleep and never woke up again.

She lived 3 months in an essential coma, never regaining consciousness (and getting steady feedings).

I realize now THIS was rationing of medical care!

Because my mom was on Medicare, and was a frequent flyer to the hospital for pneumonia...(which was fine with her!IV antibiotics, lots of meals on trays, fun with nurses..)THEY saw fit to call for surgery to try to end the simple pleasure of an occasional trip to hospital.

One way or another.

My advice--DONT AGREE TO THE SURGERY!!

Joan, I've been wondering where ARE YA!  LOL  I LUV YA GIRL!

Thanks for you kind words about my mom.  I'll talk to my brother about it.  I know she would not be happy with a feeding tube.  However, he says she has that "scared" look.  I believe she's scared top die.

End of life decisions are so very hard.  It's a personal decision.  Many people do not want to live without qol, but there's others who do.

Again, there's no easy answers.

As far as cancer, we just do not know what causes many of them.  It's not simple.  We know too many people who have done so many things right, but still got the damned disease.  And that's not only bc.

Have you really listened to ads for meds lately...all the SEs.  It'll scare the crap outta ya.  And then we have health care professionals warning us about supplements.  I feel we have to use our own discretion.  I'm on meds and I hate that I have to put anything else bad in my system.  I wanna preach, but I'm not!

Shirley

Shirley, I love ya too, Sista!

I'm still around, but my computer is so half-dead that it takes too long to make it post most of the time.Because, you know--I gotta spend all my time riding the elevator with WoodenDog.

I managed to fire a few off today(we had a rain-day).I've been missing you guys.

I'm a month off femara.Still pretty badly crippled, still senile.But the dizziness is improving.I planned to simply quit AI, but just heard from Edge who says he would feel more comfortable knowing I was on SOME sort of ht.I cant have Faslodex.But I can get Tamx, I guess.Edge says 5 mg!Surely THAT cant make my edema that awful?

I wont ask my onc for the  tiny dosage--i will cut the 20 mg pills.(Lots of practice)

Edge says 5 mg confers just as much protection as 20 mg.

My onc doesnt have time for me any more.I'm a woman who will be in remission 5 years in July.He has an office bulging with active chemo patients.

I'd better go.I am probably burning my dinner.

Love you! j

Shirley, please know that I wasn't talking about your MIL, good for her, it's wonderful she's able to get out and enjoy her family.

I am so sorry about your mother.  there are all sorts of feeding tubes and one is a tiny one that can be inserted thru the nose to the stomach and requires NO surgery or anesthesia.  it can be used to give suppliments instead of the hyperalimentation I think was being discussed above

. Suppliments are good to get in increased protein and carbs needed for energy and healing.  Hyperal is usually thru a tube inserted in the abdomen directly into the stomach and does require a long time to  administer.  A nasogastric tube is for intermittent feedings for suppliments, including vitamins and such as well as liquid feedings.  Your brother can still feed her and get regular food down her.

I am well aware of what medicine can do, and what Some professionals will continue to do even when no longer wanted or needed.

I fought the docs for several weeks to leave my mom alone after she was gone, except for the machines keeping her lungs moving and meds to keep her heart beating.  Even after I refused to let them test her for anything and demanded she be left alone, according to HER wishes before she became so ill, they continued. 

Even the threat of legal action was no deterrant to those who wanted to do what they could do, just because they could do it, not because it would improve my mom's condition -- it was a teaching hospital, and I worked at University hospital, so I knew what they were doing.  Gotta let the young ones learn and besides, they more sub specialties in on a case, the more money can be made.

Besides, Medicare was paying for all those things my mom didn't want.  Gotta make a buck somewhere.  This was many years ago, before Medicare was even beginning to be monitored.

So--I have not only a living will, refusing all nourishment that I cannot take on my own, and any further treatment except hydration and pain meds, but a medical power of atty. for my family to legally prevent my wishes from being ignored. 

My dh faced a similiar problem when his mom developed nonalcoholic liver problems.  Baylor was beginning to do liver transplants, but wouldn't take Medicare.  My MIL was mid 70" and sick beyond belief and needed hospice.  Unfortunatly, they had some money saved and talked her into private pay for a liver transplant.  The oldest one ever done to that date.  She should have been denied and the liver gone to a person who could survive the treatmet.

She stayed in ICU for 7 months!!!  Never even knew her son or husband after the surgery.  Her daily  fees were $10,000.  they had already paid 150,000 just for the transplant.

The day they moved her from ICU to a nursing home, she died.  After all that time, it was a blessing to her dear husband who had gone into a major depression and we were as worried about him as her. 

So-I know of what I speak when it comes to end of life decisions regarding what level of care can be provided to prolong death.

I don't think I will ever fear that docs will use euthanasia on me. 

My take on the preventive care vs. care for the very sick is this:  I believe there are many who cannot fully accept the fact that you cannot prevent all disease.  We are all going to die sooner or later of one thing or another and we are all probably going to need lots of care as we approach the ends of our lives. 

Here's one example:  If I had not ever had bc and if I don't die from it eventually, I would probably die a long, slow, miserable death from senile dementia at a very old age.  Almost all of my grandparents and great grandparents died at near or over 100 but had totally lost their marbles in their late 80's or 90's. 

I suppose it is possible that people could be healthy up to the day they die and then just drop dead, costing society nothing.  It does happen, after all.  But it isn't likely.

Tina

Tender that depends on how it's interpretted-- according to what friends and family who are doctors have told me. In some cases "first do no harm" might mean to NOT do a medical intervention. That's why a lot of docs will provide enough pain medication to OD on for the terminally ill since in most states assisted suicide isn't legal.  You never said which candidate this was. Was I right about Ron Paul? He's a medical doctor, OBGYN I believe.

I misunderstood your point but do now. Would you mind PMing me who the candidate is? I'm curious.

Am I really dumb OR something?  My take on that is to PREVENT a disease (kill the snake) rather than just treating it (the snakebite).  Sorta like Dr. Love would want to do....PREVENT breast cancer so we wouldn't have to TREAT it.

Look, ladies, I'm on 61 going on 62 in May.  I think dementia is almost here.  Should I be put out of my misery? 

Dotti, I am sorry about your mom.  I do believe what the doctors did in your case was wrong.  However, with your MIL's case that's a hard one.  The ultimate end of her situation was horrible.  However, she had the right to do what she did.  I'm not saying the medical establishment was right. If they did not they should have explained all the consequences if the surgery failed.  And I'm sure you or no other family member could make that decision for her.  Her age may have been a major factor in why she never recovered.  And if this was the first person who had this transplant at her age perhaps now they do refuse older folks.

It's a hard one.  Who do we treat, and who do we REFUSE to treat?

Age versus youth?  This is a very slippery slope.

BTW, my brother was there for my mom's swallow tests.  The problem is she needs someone to remind her to tuck her chin.  If she does that she's does pretty well...and she must swallow the food in her mouth before taking another bite, AND she MUST NOT be given a straw.  And of course in a nursing home they "forget."

Yes, I know about the "feeding tube" that goes down the nose.  My uncle had one.  My aunt had to feed him that way because he had so much radiation that for some time he couldn't not swallow his food. 

Again, this is another very difficult issue.

Shirley

Just spit it out and tell us who the candidate is. I'm pretty sure he isn't checking breastcancer.org. so he will enver know. Thanks.

The most significant contibutions to longer life span have been through public health intiatives - not through drugs or surgery.

Public health intiatives like clean water, sewage systems, food inspections, etc.

The cheapest single thing you can do for the health of a person is good nutrition for their mother while they are in utero.  The second cheapest thing you can do is provide high quality food for the next 10 years.

Dottie is right, too often medicine is involved in prolonging dying.  We are not talking about people having chemo and going on with their lives (like most of us here), but people who are on respirators and feeding tubes with no chance of getting off.   If they still want to live it is one thing, but they rarely have the consciousness to have the choice.  In my experience those with knowledge of extended intensive care have no desire to live it themselves.

I think Huckabee is an idiot, but even a stopped clock is right twice a day.