Question about Quercetin-Rosemary, BBS, Tender, anyone?

Hi Joan,

Thanks for the empathy about not having a husband when dealing with bc and I know in my heart you are right. I guess when I was first diagnosed I thought, now why did I go and leave that man when I could have been supported through this ordeal? It was a pity party....and not something I'm proud of but then again, looking our mortality in the face is a humbling experience. Thanks too, for your compliment on my pretty little cavalier spaniel - actually she doesn't look like a cocker in person; my avatar is just a very slenderizing and elegant photo of her taken about 3 years ago. She's a bit on the chubby side now, like her mistress:) One of the other older spaniel girls I adopted is a bc survivor - that's how I got her. After having a couple of litters, they found her tumor and she was immediately treated and retired!

Thanks to all of you for sharing so much research on CLA...the only milk I use is goat milk for cereal. One would think these goats are grass fed? I drink Meyenberg low fat that I can usually only find at stores like Whole Foods. Delicious if you haven't tried it!

I began taking CLA because of the building evidence it was a potent anti-inflammatory agent and it was missing in my diet.

I read some initial work, including that the NIH was studying CLA's potential to prevent or limit asthma, heart disease, rheumatoid arthritis, multiple sclerosis, cancer and other diseases whose roots were based in an underlying inflammation response.

I'm allergic to milk, and I stopped eating read meat about 20 years ago. About 10 years into this kind of diet, I read the first reports about CLA. On taking 3 g a day, I was surprised at the initial effect--I experienced a lack of craving that had been very persistent and led me to want to eat frequently (and continuously). It satisfied a need I hadn't been able to identify.

Since that time a great deal of research has been done on the effects of CLA. The best source of CLA is still high-fat dairy--the kind most women eliminate from their diet just when it would provide the greatest benefit--at the onset of puberty.  This is the time that the mammary glands are developing and CLA may have a protective effect against developing the bc that finally shows up in our lives much later.

In considering the rapid increase in the rate of bc over the last 40 years, it is co-incidental with:

1) more women going to work indoors where sun exposure becomes extremely limited and/or sunscreen is applied daily (and then we make much less Vit D);

2) a tremendous escalation of the amount of trans-fat & high fructose corn syrup added to packaged foods (trans-fats increase inflammation & HFCS increases blood sugar);

3) a switch to eating many times more cheese and other dairy products--but of the low-fat variety (whole milk and whole milk cheese used to be a staple in the 50's but in moderation) which nearly eliminates the CLA in our diet.

CLA is also found in red meat if the animal is grass-fed. Our agricultural system is now raising most beef animals on a high grain diet. This is not a natural diet for cows and many suffer side effects that are treated routinely with antibiotics and other chemicals, ending up in the meat. Organ meats from these animals, especially the liver, concentrate these chemicals.

As Saluki found, there are a lot of publications on CLA and most of them are finding mixed CLA isomers to be beneficial. I have a brief excerpt from one paper that I thought would be helpful to our discussion:

Numerous beneficial effects are attributed to CLA, as in slowing down or even preventing tumor development. CLA decreases body fat storage in animal models [1] and promotes cardiovascular protection against atheroesclerosis [2]. A growing bulk of evidence shows that CLA, mainly as cis-9, trans-11, 18:2 n-6 derivatives, consistently produced antitumor effects, thus reducing the incidence, progression, number of metastases and tumor burden in rats and in murine models of mammary gland, colon, forestomach, skin and prostate tumorigenesis [3]. The evidence became so convincing that the National Academy of Science advised in 1996 that "Conjugated linoleic acid (CLA) is the only fatty acid shown unequivocally to inhibit carcinogenesis in experimental animals" [4]. Beside CLA, other polyunsaturated fatty acids (PUFA) belonging to the essential fatty acid (EFA) n-3 family, whose main source are fish and seafood, are generally believed to act as antipromoters for several cancers. 

Thanks Kris,

What about CLA in pill form?  Is that a synthetic type of CLA?  I read that the type of CLA used in the study was CLA tonalin.  I don't know how true that is, it could be just a marketing ploy.

At least I won't fear some high fat diary anymore in my diet.  I just bought a 4% organic cottage cheese and I was hesitant to eat it.  I thought I was buying the low fat one. 

WebMD has an article on it:

http://www.webmd.com/diet/news/20040520/cla-weight-loss 

Kris--Stupid question, I guess, but why CAN'T you do it?

Sorry!

Is being allergic anything like being lactose intolerant, which I am?Because LI people can still use cultured milk products successfully.(Have you tried it?A crumb of goat cheese...?)

Dont mean to be a pest, but it WOULD be sooo nice if you could!

When I learned about lactose intelerance, I understood why I've always hated milk(Bleah!)

I use almond milk in my cereal, or oat ,or grain milk.By Pacific something?They're GOOD!

He is probably referring to the recent research on high doses of antioxidants actually interfering with chemo and radiation.  We tend to get very excited about revving up our immune systems without thinking about the fact that autoimmune diseases come from revved up immune systems.  There are people who blithely take megadoses of antioxidants, thinking they are doing themselves a favor.  The thing is, whatever your opinion on Western medicine or woowoo medicine, nobody is regulating these supplements.  There is no way for you to know if what is supposed to be in there is really in there.  And the spelling of these things as "complimentary"--I wish they were!  There are people spending large sums of not very available money for these items, thinking they can prevent cancer or a recurrence.  So far no one has found a supplement that can prevent or cure cancer.  As long as you go into this with that awareness and the idea that you are doing what you think is right for you, then that's fine.  But if it's magical thinking then you may be magically disappointed.  Psychologically alot of it is a control issue and that's very understandable.  Breast cancer is a freaking uncontrollable situation. 

Ok, in the spirit of dueling abstracts, I'll counter your Greek study with this Singapore study. The Greek study is based on sick people accurately recounting a lifetime of eating (lung cancer patients vs orthopedic patients (control group)) vs the Singapore study done on a human cell line. I couldn't get the whole paper, but if you have access to the Greek study, did they do any blood tests to gather data? My guess is that neither is going to be definitive on the issue:

 Forum Nutr. 2007;60:146-57.

Dietary quercetin inhibits proliferation of lung carcinoma cells.

Hung H.

Laboratory of Molecular Endocrinology, Division of Cellular and Molecular Research, National Cancer Centre, Singapore, Singapore. cmrhth@nccs.com.sg

Regular consumption of fruits and vegetables is strongly associated with reduced risk of developing chronic diseases. It is estimated that one third of all cancer deaths in the USA could be avoided through appropriate dietary modification. Several studies have indicated that fruits, vegetables and whole grains contain significant amounts of bioactive phytochemicals that have antiproliferative and antineoplastic properties. The bioactive phytochemicals may help protect cellular systems from oxidative damage as well as reduce the risk of chronic diseases. Quercetin and other related flavonoids have been shown to inhibit carcinogen-induced tumors in rodents. In humans, the total average intake of quercetin and kaempferol is estimated at 20 mg/day and consumption of quercetin from onions and apples was inversely correlated with lung cancer risk. In this study, we report that quercetin-inhibited A549 lung carcinoma cell proliferation was associated with activation of the extracellular signal-regulated kinase (ERK). Inhibition of MEK1/2 but not PI3 kinase, p38 kinase or JNK abolished quercetin-induced apoptosis suggesting MEK-ERK activation was required to trigger apoptosis.

PMID: 17684411 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

So homemade apple pie was a good idea? 

I get hungry reading this thread!

I cooked my birthday dinner Tuesday...DH made the pasta

midnight spaghetti (olive oil, pepericino, parsley, and fresh garlic warmed in a pan---spaghetti turned in the pan when drained.)

wild blue fish poached in milk and peprika

wild sea scallops wrapped in bacon and a dab of steak sauce baked.

string beans steamed, cooled, dressed with olive oil, lemon juice and sea salt

then...pears with goat cheese.

Pinot griegio

then....my mom's homemade vanilla cake from my grandmom's cookbook.

I think that covers this topic well.

...and ... fresh CLA (cheese) and quercetin (apple) goes very well with red wine!

As for the numbers game ... 59 on the 27th!  I sent my 500th message to Joan to wish her a happy birthday on the 26th! 

Still happy with the magnesium pidolate!  thanks again ladies!  My family visit would not have been the same without it! 

Hi Rosemary...

Thanks...and yes, we're visiting the family over Thanksgiving.  The blue fish was delicious. 

Hope that your cold is better...a little red wine might help?  We bought air purifiers to wear around our neck for the airplane.  They've been effective....I've used it ever since my boys moved to the west coast.  I'd arrive for a visit with a sinus problem and a cold almost every time .... but not since I bought the air purifier.  It's probably worth it to consider when we go in any large crowds....not that I want to become another Howard Hughes!!! god forbid!

We leave today to return to home.  I'll catch up with things over the next week.