Blood Draws

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Pharmmom
Pharmmom Member Posts: 300
edited June 2014 in Life After Breast Cancer
Blood Draws
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  • Pharmmom
    Pharmmom Member Posts: 300
    edited October 2007

    Correct me if I'm wrong here but this really had me annoyed this morning.  I went for bloodwork at the oncologist office.  I am on Zocor now and I had to have a test.  Since A/C and all the rest my veins are shot.  I had my last treatment in June 2003.  I had my mastectomy in Nov 2002.  After the third technician came over to me and could not get a vein anyplace (they finally got one and just barely got enough out for the test), they started telling me that I could let them use the mastectomy side arm since it has been 5 years????  I told them that is not what I heard.  I said I was told never ever use that arm for sticks or draws.  They said we'd be in and out quick.  I said you can't use that arm unless the oncologist tells you its ok.  Well he was not in.  We didnt use that arm.  I think they just were getting aggravated so they wanted the easy way out.  I doubt they would have had much better luck in that arm anyway.  I said can you tell me that I wont get Lymphedema if you do this?  They didnt answer that one.  I put a call in to the oncs machine and left him a message and later I'm calling the surgeon to get the straight dope on this 5 years now its ok stuff.  Have you ever encountered this?  Am I wrong? 

    Barb

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  • badboob67
    badboob67 Member Posts: 2,780
    edited October 2007

    Barb,

    They nurses are ABSOLUTELY WRONG! I have LE in my right arm. You can develop it ANYTIME. I have never heard of the "five years out" thing. I know lots of women with diagnosed lymphedema have trouble with doctors and nurses not understanding the condition. You need to continue to protect your mast side from injuries, blood draws, blood pressure cuffs, and even pulse monitors. If you are traveling by plane, you should wear a compression garment. Many women have had LE show up for the first time after a plane ride.

    I think you should complain LOUDLY and OFTEN about this treatment. Unfortunately, many have found they have to educate the doctors about LE when they should be the ones educating us. Please visit the LE section here and read some of Binney's recommendations. She also lists a number of websites where you can get information. I would print out some of the information and keep it with you to share with these dingbats next time that want to put YOU at risk because THEY don't want to work harder.  GRRRRRRRRRRR!

    Diane 

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  • Binney4
    Binney4 Member Posts: 8,609
    edited October 2007

    Good for you, Barb!

    The problem is our medical education system. According to one legitimate survey, our doctors recieve an average of 15 minutes of lymphdema instruction in their entire medical school training. Good heavens! Our nurses' training programs generally teach that you should avoid using an arm where lymph nodes were taken, but the "5 year rule" (or we've also heard of a "6 month rule") is pure hokem. Our risk exists for the rest of our lives. Many of the women on the lymphedema (LE) board here have been out of treatment for 8, 12, even 18 years before developing LE. Nasty surprise!

    So the bottom line is this: insist that they honor your "no sticks, no BP" rule just because YOU say so, not because your onc or surgeon says so. This is your arm, your life, your on-going distress and disability (not to mention time and expense) if you develop LE. There are Position Papers on several LE subjects, including Risk Reduction, at the National Lymphedema Network web site:

    http://www.lymphnet.org

    Copy some off for all your healthcare providers  too! Wink

    You might also want to browse through the articles at LymphNotes, www.lymphnotes.com

    And LymphedemaPeople,

    www.lymphedemapeople.com 

    Lymphedema: breast cancer's dirty little secret. Frown

    So glad you're in on the secret and able to advocate for yourself!

    Onward!

    Binney 

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  • Pharmmom
    Pharmmom Member Posts: 300
    edited October 2007
    Wait til you hear this!  I call up the surgeon and he says, no you had a modified radical mastectomy with many lymph nodes removed.  There is no 5 year rule.  You never get a blood draw on that arm.  Then I get a message on my answering machine from the nurse at the oncs office saying its ok for them to draw blood. ??????????  So I call the nurse back and left a message on her machine saying I had spoken to the surgeon and the answer was no absolutely not.  It was a modified radical mastectomy and possibly if it had been a lumpectomy they "might" be able to do it but not in my case.  I also said I will be going with the surgeons decision (and mine) so I'll drink lots of water and we will forge ahead in December when I have to go through this all over again.  IDIOTS.  I knew it was because they were having a hard time I just frigging knew it.  Yell Barb
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  • lvtwoqlt
    lvtwoqlt Member Posts: 6,162
    edited October 2007

    Binney has given good advice. thanks to Binney, I am speaking up for myself in the doctor's offices.

    I had bilat mast this past June and when I went to my gyn for my annual phys in July, I refused to let the nurse take my bp in my arms but gave her the option of taking it on my leg. She said she would ask the doctor about that, then she wanted to stick my finger for the 'routine' blood test. I told her that she could stick my toe, she said that she would ask the doctor about that. They never did take my bp or blood.

    Several weeks later I was in my GP office for a sinus infection and I told them about my no bp or needle sticks in either arm. The nurse was saying that she never heard of such a thing but the doctor was close by and heard my explaination and told the nurse that I was right and to take the bp on my leg.  The nurse then added it to my record.

    I am getting ready Friday for my flu shot at work from the local health dept and I am prepared for a battle to get the shot in my leg. I have printed off the information from lymphnet.org and am ready to show it to the nurses that do the shots.

    Sheila

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  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Member Posts: 1,376
    edited October 2007

    Binney has been a life saver.  I agree, print out the info Binney has shared.  If these caring nurses had bc themselves they'd think twice about getting stuck!  Oh, this just makes me sooooo angry.

    So far I have been extremely lucky.  No one has ever questioned me.  One time I forgot and let the doctor take my BP on my affected side.  That was my fault.

    I had neoadjuvant chemo before surgery.  Therefore, the lymph nodes were in tact.  However, my onc said by all means let no one stick me in the cancer side, nor take my bp on that side.  He was very young therefore, who knows, perhaps he was more educated about this.

    Shirley

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  • JoanofArdmore
    JoanofArdmore Member Posts: 1,012
    edited October 2007

    Barb, I refused a port for my first 2 chemos.(Then adrieamycin escaped a vein and it was no longer a choice.My onc ordered me to come for my 3 chemo port installed)

    But before that, my nurses would have me drink and drink, and also put a heat lamp on the hoped-for vein.Heat helps.

    No sticks on the bc side!I think more than anything it's the tourniquet, maybe setting us up for edema?Because no BPs in that arm, either.

    Good luck!

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  • badboob67
    badboob67 Member Posts: 2,780
    edited October 2007

    Barb,

    I am so glad your surgeon gave you the right answer! It is shocking to me that there is so little understanding about lymphedema. I have been fortunate in that most every nurse I have had contact with since my mastectomy has asked me which arm she could use for bp and the like.

    Just another note, though: please make sure it is written in your chart not to use the at-risk arm. I was shocked when I received my records from my previous onc/bs (just switched to a new one last month) and saw NO MENTION of the LE that HE diagnosed!!! I was referred for therapy by them!

    Diane 

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  • gracejon
    gracejon Member Posts: 972
    edited October 2007

    Just had surgery and this exact thing was a problem.  First with anesthesia and then with blood draws.  I do have lymphedema in axillary dissection arm and thankfully it has been under good control.  The gyn/onc questioned my need to be proactive with this arm since he told me that sentinel node biopsy does not require the same precautions.  I treated my reponse that "he is full of poop"  So much for that doc remaining my advocate.  They are not very well educated regarding the risks and one remains their own best advocate.  I had lymphedema in my lower extremeties prior to breast cancer and I firmly believe if it was taken seriously my risk could have been lessened in developing in my arm.  I do let my simple mastectomy arm used in B/P's and blood/IV draws.  The only thing left after that is my neck and that would scare me.

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  • AnneW
    AnneW Member Posts: 4,050
    edited October 2007

    I've been in a quandary about this now that I've gone through cancer on both sides.

    Fortunately, I lost only one node on the right side, whereas I lost 16 on the other. It's easy enough for the BP to be done in the lower leg. And I've got a decent ankle vein.

    Over time, I might let a good lab tech access my SNB side, but not yet. Even though there's less risk for LE with a SNB, I've seen it happen way too much.

    Anne

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  • Sierra
    Sierra Member Posts: 1,638
    edited October 2007





    NO way do they use the surgery arm

    on me..



    I just had bloodwork done

    and am not on TX

    but they have had a lot of trouble

    last time... so got the butterfly needle this

    time



    actually I got some v. good ideas from another

    forum.. on this..



    Best... they dont touch that arm of mine

    but they do try

    even for BP



    My surgeon told me a long time ago

    it is NOT to be used





    :)

    I wear a medical bracelet
    and also have some bright pink
    bracelets from Lymphadema Assn (for surgery)

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