It's Not Supposed to Happen Like This

LisaSDCA
LisaSDCA Member Posts: 2,230
It's Not Supposed to Happen Like This

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  • LisaSDCA
    LisaSDCA Member Posts: 2,230
    edited October 2007

    In January I was diagnosed with IDC, StageII, Grade 3, Triple Neg. BRCA-1+ breast cancer, 2cm. and .65 cm, right breast. I went ahead and had the lumpectomies and SNB because I didn't want to postpone chemo by having the mastectomies then (and I wanted immediate reconstruction). We got clean margins and all three nodes were clear both by frozen section and histologic exam (celebrations all'round).

    I asked for the full-force chemo and got TACx6. Got through that with the usual adventures. Near the end of it, I was having recurrent hip and lumbar pain so had a bone scan that showed no evidence of bony metastasis (more celebrations). I know that with triple negs. metastasis is more likely to soft tissue anyway, but still it was a relief.

    After recovering for a reasonable time and getting my blood levels back up, I had my bilat. mastectomies and immediate DIEP & SIEA reconstruction last month. My recovery has been proceeding well. Two weeks after the procedure, I was presented with an "all clear" on the pathology for all tissue removed. Champagne for everyone!

    I finally felt cancer free. I felt hit by a truck, but I felt like it was from here that the real moving forward began. I could tell that they had done a lot of removal of breast tissue into the axillary area, because I came out of surgery completely numb in both armpits, rear deltoid areas, and the sensation on the inside of my upper arms is just beginning to return. I have some excess puffiness on the right side (that will go during stage II recon.) that is very tender and irritates me. Of course, I tend to massage that area and generally try to get the discomfort to go away. Then I found a lump.

    Now, I've had bilats. I'm not supposed to have to have mammograms any more. I don't have breast tissue, right? No more worries! No more self-exams! But here's this lump. It's half way between my axilla and my breast and it feels exactly like a hard lymph node. It's the size and shape of an elongated kidney bean.

    Now, I know these are new breasts made from abdominal tissue. There can be fat necrosis. I feel various textures all over. But this is the size, shape and location for a lymph node and I know anatomy pretty well. What is it doing there and why is it misbehaving? What am I to do? If I see my breast surgeon who did my lumpectomies, he's going to want to take it out (surgeons do surgery, after all). If I see my plastic surgeon (in LA, and I'm not sure I can even get up there right now) I have no idea what he will want to do. I know that sometimes lymph nodes, in the process of doing their given jobs, get swollen and tender (lymphadenopathy, we call it). If that is all this one is doing, why go in there (risking major lymphedema) and mess with it? If indeed it is a recurrence, I'd rather have a PET scan and look to see just exactly where I stand. I belong to a cheap HMO and have had no scans whatsoever, pre- or post- chemo, except for the aforementioned bone scan. Not even a MUGA.

    This is not supposed to happen three months out of chemo, not quite one month from bilateral mastectomies. But I know I have an aggressive tumor. My sister's metastasized to her brain, bone and liver within nine months, so I have to recognize it for what it is. OTOH, I am one determined, persistent woman.

    I have always been able to find answers to my questions along the way so far. I have found the information I have sought through research and the help of you women here. But I am at a loss now. What do I do? I don't want to do too much, be overly invasive. I mean we don't need to do a node resection for staging or anything - if it's in one, it's a recurrence, period. But I can't 'wait and see', either. There's a PARP study I could get into right quick.

    ARRRRGH.

    Lisa

  • Calico
    Calico Member Posts: 1,108
    edited October 2007

    Dear Lisa,

    I second your arrrrgh!!!

    However,

    it could be fat necrosis or sutures, you say it is half way between the axilla and the breast. Would that be the "line" where the breast starts?

    I have them too, I am horrified yet the PS says "don't worry".

    I do hear it is common to have a lumps after recon.

    The study you mentioned, could you get in with a "lump" or without? Doesn't matter?

    I'd say go join the study, if it means one thing then it is check ups or even scans (which your insurance doesn't seem to pay).

    Ask your onc about PET again, I do remember my onc saying that every cancer patient can get them now without major indication for progression.

    Sending you hugs. I share your fear. It never goes away like it seems. I was hoping to be at ease at 2 years but not so. To many sad things happening here and we are all in the same boat.

    Have it checked out, one way or another.

    Prayers coming your way.

    God Bless

  • TenderIsOurMight
    TenderIsOurMight Member Posts: 4,493
    edited March 2008



    No it's not suppose to happen like this!



    It may be reasonable just to go to your surgeon and ask him or her to biopsy it. Straight out. Get some of it under the microscope and have done with it. It's probably some reactive hyperplasia in the lymph node from all the surgeries. Remember, your SLN which is thought to be where the cancer first drains, was negative. But I know you know that.



    I'm sorry Lisa. It's a time of celebration and we all wish it to remain that way for you.



    Lots of Hugs,

    Tender



  • Member_of_the_Club
    Member_of_the_Club Member Posts: 3,646
    edited October 2007

    I think you are jumping to conclusions, which is only natural, but the odds are very strong that it isn't cancer. your breasts have been through a lot and the scar tissue can be tricky. If you go to your surgeon -- which you should do -- he will most likely do a needle biopsy and then you will know. I don't think you need another PET, you just need to know what this thing is. I'm betting it is b9.



    I had a lumpectomy and in the three years since I have found lumps and had biopsies and everything is fine. Its just one of those things that go with the territory.

  • PineHouse
    PineHouse Member Posts: 416
    edited October 2007

    Lisa,

    I think your case qualify for a PET/CT or biopsy.  You do have a palpable mass that need to be checked whether it's benign or not.  As a triple negative, BRCA1, we don't have time to "just wait & see".  Have you talked to & persuaded your onc. to order a scan?

    You mentioned that you can get into a PARP trial real quick.  But don't they require a confirmed breast cancer metastasis?  I am currently on PARP Inhibitor trial (the KUDOS one) for breast cancer, but they did want to see a biopsy result that says "mets from BREAST cancer".

    Please PM me if you want to talk some more about this.

    Hope it's nothing, but it's better to make sure that it's nothing.

  • LisaSDCA
    LisaSDCA Member Posts: 2,230
    edited October 2007

    Thank you all for the encouragement.

    You all are right - I need to get in and at least get a needle biopsy. I'd rather get a scan because it would be less invasive info, but there is a chance, even in a BRCA-1 triple neg., that it is just scar tissue that formed really fast in this lymphatic spot in this lymph-shape. Or just reactive hyperplasia like you said, Tender.

    The PARP study I mentioned would only be if it came back positive for a recurrence, PineHouse. I haven't talked to anyone, only left messages for surgeon, plastic surgeon and onc. today. I found it three or four days ago. Things have been pretty tense here in San Diego due to the fires all week. I'd really like to get this figured out before the weekend but it's just not going to happen.

    I think I'd feel a lot more positive, but my sister's tiny tumor was node negative, too. Frown 

    I hate this disease.

    Lisa

  • fd411
    fd411 Member Posts: 398
    edited October 2007

    Hi Lisa,

    I agree to definitely get this checked out. My treatment was; triple neg, TAC, lumpectomy (Stage IIIA), rads, mets 4 months later. But midway during rads I developed a new lump under my arm where I had positive nodes. I had a mammogram and an ultrasound. The ultrasound showed the lump to be clear and fluid filled. It turned out to be a seroma. It was so hard it felt like bone, but I knew it wasn't bone because that area used to be flat!

    I hope your fears are put to rest with benign results. 

    Ferne 

  • LisaSDCA
    LisaSDCA Member Posts: 2,230
    edited October 2007

    Oooh, yes - maybe an ultrasound would be a good first step. Thanks for your input, Ferne! A seroma would be a welcome diagnosis. Smile

    Lisa

  • bevnurse
    bevnurse Member Posts: 274
    edited October 2007

    Lisa,

     Push for a PET. I know Kaiser does them because my first onc had me get one for initial staging purposes.

     I am glad to hear you are doing ok with the fires. I am right near the Santiago fire and yes tense is a very good description of the atmosphere around here now.

     Good luck and I will be praying for a B9 result,

    Bev 

  • LisaSDCA
    LisaSDCA Member Posts: 2,230
    edited October 2007

    Thanks Bev - It's good to know I shouldn't have to open a vein to get one. Good luck with the fire. I hope the improved weather helps them control it soon.

    Lisa

  • pod1257
    pod1257 Member Posts: 262
    edited October 2007

    Lisa,

    So sorry for your trouble. I had a hard, lima bean size lump discovered 7/07 after having bilateral IGAP in 3/07. My surgeon was very concerned and did an immediate fine needle biopsy. I was terrified. Turned out it WAS fat necrosis along with a little inflammation. As I understand it, fat necrosis is fairly common after flap surgery and if b9, usually gets smaller in 2-3mths. When I had my follow-up  9/07, the lump was gone.

    Here's hoping this is fat necrosis also.

    Take care,

    Julie

  • LisaSDCA
    LisaSDCA Member Posts: 2,230
    edited October 2007

    Julie, thank you for your very heartening story. Hope springs eternal! My surgeon had nothing available until Nov. 16th, so he is seeing me Saturday morning at 8am. Is he a great guy or what?!? Kiss

    Lisa

  • BethNY
    BethNY Member Posts: 2,710
    edited March 2008

    Lisa definitely take a deep breath.  The odds are, that this isn't cancer.  Your breast surgeon should do an UltraSound, and then a biopsy.  This will rule out right away if it is fat necrosis which can be common in Flap reconstruction.  In some cases the necrosis needs to be removed, but if it is not painful, usually your surgeon will tell you to leave it.

    Definitely start with your Breast Surgeon, and let us know.

  • LisaSDCA
    LisaSDCA Member Posts: 2,230
    edited October 2007

    Thank you, Beth. I will ask for an ultrasound first. I would really like to avoid any unecessary punctures or biopsies in the area. This is a surgeon I like and feel I can talk to - he did my initial biopsy, my lumpectomies and port placement and removal, but not my mastectomies. Those were done up in LA because that is where the microsurgeon was who could do the DIEP/SIEAs. So this will be his first time seeing the surgical site/reconstruction. In fact this will be his first time seeing any DIEP/SIEA in the flesh, as they don't do them here in San Diego. But he certainly knows my axilla, as he did my SNB, 0/3.

    I'm just bending my thoughts toward good things on Saturday.

    Lisa

  • Pharmmom
    Pharmmom Member Posts: 300
    edited October 2007

    I had the tram flap and this sounds familiar.  Try and relax I have this feeling its not cancer.  Will keep a good thought for you.  You can get these lumps with the flaps.  Try and be calm.  I know its hard. 

    Hugs,

    Barb 

  • TenderIsOurMight
    TenderIsOurMight Member Posts: 4,493
    edited March 2008



    You sound like you are in wonderful hands, Lisa. Any surgeon who is willing to come in on a Saturday morning to help out another human has one leg up on much needed insight in medicine. Plus as you say, this is a surgeon you like. I vote for fat necrosis too, now that it's been mentioned.



    Many surgeons now have ultrasound machines in their offices. This has come to be as surgeons have elected to take on more of the diagnostic role in breast lumps. They should be specially certified in breast ultrasound, and there are several ways in surgeonland to do so. Without this training, you should stick with a radiologist, and it never hurts to get a radiologist's opinion of a breast surgeons pictures.



    The advantage to this is you can go in, the trained surgeon scans, and does the biopsy then and there. Who knows, perhaps you'll be lucky enough to have this available on Saturday.



    Regardless, all of us here are pulling for you big time. Come on back and post today if the tension gets to high. We'll be right here.



    Tender









  • jacqniel
    jacqniel Member Posts: 720
    edited October 2007

    Lisa, you are not invited to our party - now go home!  Never did I dream I would see your name over here!  I am so sorry you have to have this worry.  But things aren't ever as we choose.

    No answers to your questions, other than to second the good advice your received above. Get that ultra sound, and if needed, a biopsy.  It is aways best to be armed with knowledge.

    Hugs to you, dear cruise sister.  My prayers are with you!

    Jacque 

  • LisaSDCA
    LisaSDCA Member Posts: 2,230
    edited October 2007

    Thank you, Tender and dear ChemoCruise Sister, Jacque, for your caring words. I should be in bed asleep so that I am bright-eyed for my appointment in the morning. At least I am not up late because of anxiety - I had a later evening out than I had planned and a late, late dinner. Good distraction, but mostly I am feeling more optimistic. I did let one of my power-prayer friends in on my concern and that helped. I have generally not told anyone except my sister and the friend who is driving me there - and you bc.org sisters, of course - because there is nothing to tell yet. And I hope there won't be.

    A spot of good news - before I got in my bath today, I felt for my lump standing up. Always before, I located it in the typical breast exam position - lying down, arm over head. In the mirror, it seems to be lower down (ain't gravity
    great?!?) and more likely to be part of the new breast. That doesn't mean it's not underlying lymph tissue, as the axillary lymph nodes come down nearly the whole lateral border of the breast, but I am optimistic. Laughing

    Also, Tender, I am meeting my surgeon at his office at the main hospital. There should be someone in radiology/ultrasound even on a Saturday. He just needs to write up the order. That's the advantage of going to the main hospital - they have a 24/7 lab and pharmacy, too.

    I'm going to go take an Ativan and crawl in. Thank you all again for your positive vibes. I'll let you know when I know.

    Lisa

  • LisaSDCA
    LisaSDCA Member Posts: 2,230
    edited October 2007

    Hello friends -

    I'm home!

    I'm relieved!

    Dr. R. first had to admire my new DIEP/SIEA reconstructions, but then he said "You must be here because you have some concerns." Uhm, yeah,

    So, I showed him my lump (only about 1" away from the incision he had made for my SNB in Feb.) and expressed that while I was hoping it was nothing, its size and location had me concerned. He agreed, and had me shift position a couple of times so he could better feel the borders. He examined the left axilla, too.

    The upshot of it was that he feels 99% sure it is fat necrosis. In one position, he can feel that the ends of the lump extend into a small 'ledge' which he feels represents the terminal border of where they added tissue during reconstruction and this is frequently an area of less-than-ideal blood supply. He recommends doing nothing, looking at it again in a month and if it is giving me trouble, revaluating it for a needle biopsy at that time. He feels that would be overkill at this time, and likely won't be needed AT ALL!

    Also, I asked for a copy of my full path. report from the mastectomies. Turns out they did take out another node on the right and even one on the left (inadvertently, as we were going to leave those alone) in their zeal to remove all breat tissue. Full report was clear of any atypia or malignancy.

    So, I am feeling good, feeling healthy, ready to have my cranky axillary nerves chill out, ready to heal up and move on.

    Thank you all for letting me come over here and have my small panic attack. You were very gracious. I am not one of the Stage II'ers who avoids the mets board. I like to come and read of new treatments kicking cancer-bootay! My sister and dad had mets, it's not some mystery place to me. I could join you next week, who knows. Just not this week, 'kay?Wink

    Lisa

  • LuAnnH
    LuAnnH Member Posts: 8,847
    edited October 2007

    Lisa,

    Glad to hear they think it is not much of anything!

  • TenderIsOurMight
    TenderIsOurMight Member Posts: 4,493
    edited March 2008





    Oh, yes, glad to hear this too, Lisa. Does that mean you'll change your signature to 0/4 nodes or 0/5 nodes? Great!



    I hope our friends here don't mind our visits. Once I saw a comment that early's didn't like to get to know the ladies here as we were afraid (actually something about like it's catchable). I felt sad.



    I came over and introduced myself in a thread months ago. I also wish to know women and men here, and here their stories. It deepens my "true grit", widens my determination to minimize my whine, and frankly, I find quite some mentors here.



    I thank you for your tolerance, mentorship and support.



    Tender

  • LisaSDCA
    LisaSDCA Member Posts: 2,230
    edited October 2007

    Yes, Tender - already did that. I'm happy for every one of those negative suckers. If we're going to go in and yank 'em around, I'll take credit for them. Of course, this now puts me in the unenviable position of so many others that I now have NO arm for BP cuffs, IVs, or blood draws. Undecided

    Lisa

  • jacqniel
    jacqniel Member Posts: 720
    edited October 2007

    Happy Dance For Lisa!  Praise God!  Jacque

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