What are you taking?

aliciamaris · July 2007

I follow edge's recommendations (Constantine Kaniklidis of breastcancerevidencewatch) from when he used to post (I miss him...).

I take:

1000 mgs calcium in 2 doses
200mcg selenium
2000mgs curcumin, in 2 doses
400mgs of DIM in 2 doses
400mcgs folic acid
300mgs grapeseed extract
green tea extract (can't remember how much - 2 caps)
1000iu D3
20mgs melatonin at night

along with tamoxifen. I'm considering adding reishi mushrooms and ginseng. Also considering adding flax seed back in after reading Constantine's most recent overview.

my onc thinks I'm nuts...

Alicia

Rosemary44 · July 2007

"Also, I though magnesium helped with calcium absorption? But it can also be a cancer causing agent????"

Yes, it does help with absorption and does a lot of other good things, but I never read anything about it being a cancer causing agent. It's in a variety of foods and so far considered healthy.

alanpvegas · July 2007

CoQ10 is a good one for breast cancer patients. The research from Denmark showed that 90mg helped the breast cancer patients, in-fact none died. However two patients increased their dosage to 300 and 390mg respectively and had tumor regression to the point it could no longer be found. If anyone is interested I can provide more info.

Maitake D-Fraction is one you can take with almost any chemo. The Memorial Sloan Kettering cancer center allows it for all chemotherapy types and radiation therapy. This is one they feel very safe with allowing their patients to use. (btw, www.maitake.com is the company / product you should use...best product of them all).

Antioxidants have gotten a bad rap, but there is little evidence behind it (it was based on an old article in a poorly created lab study by injecting animals with more antioxidants than a human could ever take per day). In-fact, antioxidants are showing they HELP prolong survival time and help with chemotherapy. If anyone is interested I can provide more info on this also.

-- This is not medical advice, I'm only providing what I've researched via the internet and medical journals/publications --

Rosemary44 · July 2007

I didn't know antioxidants had a bad rap. I'm happy to hear they cleared that up. Sure, I'm interested in antioxidant research since you have it handy.

Anonymous · July 2007

Rosemary, perhaps alanp was referring to them having a bad rap when used in conjunction with chemo.

Rosemary44 · July 2007

Shirley,

It does sound that way, now that I read his post again. I wonder if they are changing their mind about supplementing antioxidants with chemo? It sounds like they would interfere with chemo, but we'll have to wait to see the research. Probably more research on mice so it will be useless to us anyway. Those mice are lucky critters.

Oh ho, and I wanted to add, I just found D3 without any soy in the pill. Made by Bluebonnet. My search has ended.

MREanes · July 2007

Alanp,

Do you know if it is OK to take CoQ10 with chemo? I'm on Abraxane, Avastin and Zometa.

Prior to chemo, I had been taking CoQ10 since 2001 to help my heart. I am a male and was diagnosed with bc in May 05. Now have bone mets. It's hard to say if the CoQ10 had any impact on my bc.

I am taking astragalus, maitake extract and flax seed powder.

I am a little confused about the flax seed powder. I was told that the flax seed powder flushed estrogen out of the system. I am HR+ so I don't want to continue if I am adding fuel to the fire.

Thanks for your help,
Mike

Rosemary44 · July 2007

Mike,

I don't know about coQ 10 and chemo personally but I've read where other ladies here said they did take it during chemo.

About the flax, they do 98% of their research on mice so we don't know if it works in the same way on humans.

Here's a recent research paper on flax:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez...Pubmed_RVDocSum

There's a few more to read there also. Whenever I read these papers I notice that they give the mice 10% of their diet in flax. I don't think the 2 or 3 tbls of flax daily will come close to 10% that the mice are getting.
Rosemary

BlindedByScience · July 2007

Folkers is the author to search on in PubMed for the C0Q10 studies. He gave this supplement to stage IV bc patients (I think it was 6 patients) along with other supplements. He believes it was the C0Q10 that was helpful, but the data only shows benefit from the entire treatment.

NCI has a problem with these studies because the patients were not identified in the first study and cannot be linked as individuals in the second study. There are other design flaws in the study, too, that make them cautious about the results. The NCI commentary can be found here:

http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/pdq/cam/coenzymeQ10/Patient/page2/print

K. Folkers has made his career on studying COQ10. He has published quite a lot and is rather like the Linus Pauling of Vitamin C--it's his focus.

BC patients apparently test low in COQ10, as they often do for Vitamin D, folic acid and other necessary compounds for immune function and health. My personal view is to take COQ10 despite the lack of rigor in Folker's papers. This is based priimarily on the idea that cancer cells turn off their mitochondria (the aerobic 'power houses' of the cells) in favor of generating energy anaerobically. This second method of power generation is what kicks in when you exercise for long enough to have muscle aches the next day. It generates large quantities of lactic acid. But the real significance of turning off the mitochondria lies in the fact that these little guys in all of our cells have the power to tell the cell when to die. Mitochondria can signal apoptosis. By turning them off, the cancer can remain immortal. It's one more control mechanism gone awry.

It was thought that in cancer cells the mitochondria were mutated or otherwise broken. But the CoQ10 supplements, along with the other supporting supplements, may reawaken them.

Take a look at his papers. He is quite an advocate for this supplement.

MREanes · July 2007

Rosemary and BBS,

Thanks for your help!

Mike

Jinx · July 2007

I started taking Co Q10 about 6 months prior to my cancer dx. I was researching cholesterol and found that cholesterol drugs lowered Co Q10 in the body. Told my husband since he takes Lipitor. After researching it I decided it would be helpful to me as well.

I also take cranberry pills & green tea pills in hopes of killing cancer cells that might be in the body. Folic acid and calcium with Vit D, and Vit D throughout day.

Omega 3 fish oil. I found out that Omega 6 in fish oil caps is not good - Omega 6 causes inflamation and cancer loves inflammation in the body. And take a multi vit each day.

aliciamaris · July 2007

How much CoQ10 are people taking?

Alicia

Carmelle · July 2007

I take vitamin D3 2000iu
melatonin 9mg nightly
drink pot organic green tea daily since dx
dark chocolate and red wine.
my stomahc hates pills so I had to cut out some supplements.
Michelle

Rosemary44 · July 2007

We have to watch the folic acid now. It might cause colon polyps. Wait long enough for another research paper and it will kill colon polyps. But for today, we shouldn't supplement cause there's enough foods fortified with it.

I take 100 mgs of coQ10 which might be on the low side. But I can't find any real research telling us what amount to take.

Rosemary44 · July 2007

Kris,

Thanks for the paper. I was just reading the possible side effects:

No serious side effects have been reported from the use of coenzyme Q10. The most common side effects include the following:

Insomnia (being unable to fall sleep or stay asleep).
Higher than normal levels of liver enzymes.
Rashes.
Nausea.
Pain in the upper part of the abdomen.
Dizziness.
Feeling sensitive to light.
Feeling irritable.
Headache.
Heartburn.
Feeling very tired.

We'll have to watch for liver enzymes going up.

BlindedByScience · July 2007

Alicia, I'm taking 600 mg of CoQ10 daily.

I think it's also important to pay attention to what people are not taking--I avoid red meat & pork, but will eat small amounts of organic chicken. I have added salmon to my diet and try to eat it 3 X weekly. I avoid partially hydrogenated fats in everything I bring into my kitchen. Eating out--well, I'm pretty sure it all has transfats, but I don't eat out frequently. I'm allergic to milk & milk products, so I don't eat those, but I'm not sure I'd recommend them to anyone else either. Milk contains natural growth hormones as well as those that farmers inject into the cows. Growth hormones make babies grow big and may stimulate small cancers to grow big, too.

Some of the other things I recommend strongly are 30 min a day --or more-- of walking. Preferably outside in the sunshine. Exercise reduces our blood sugar levels and may also reduce the amount of another growth factor that we make when we stimulate insulin production. Exercise seems to have the biggest impact on our outcomes and far more benefit than anything we've identified to eat or not eat with the possible exception of Vitamin D and calcium.

Anonymous · July 2007

I am taking 100 mg of CoQ10. I think that's a pretty low dose. My problem is -- not all CoQ10 is created equal. Which brands do you use?
Shirley

BlindedByScience · July 2007

Right now my COQ10 is from NOW Foods, but Life Extension claims to have one that is better absorbed. I don't have any evidence that one brand is better than anyother, but I'd certainly like to hear if anyone else knows of a difference.

saluki · July 2007

BBS--The Jarrow Formulas, Q-absorb Co-Q10, 100 mg, I used to take claimed the same thing.

I'm taking Healthy Origins now as the price was much better and although I know Jarrow is a very good company I'm not sure it was worth the price difference.

http://www.iherb.com/ProductDetails.aspx?c=1&pid=7884&at=0

BlindedByScience · July 2007

That's exactly what I'm doing--following the best price on iHerb. I just finished the Jarrow formula and went to buy more of what was on sale.

Rosemary44 posted the possible side effects of taking too much C0Q10, but I can't say that I have too many of them--and they can be ascribed to other causes, too. The only thing that I might pin on my dose of C0Q10 is occasional heart-burnish symptoms after taking my handful of supplements, although it isn't very strong.

Anonymous · July 2007

This is what I take. Any comments would be welcome.
Shirley

http://www.vitacost.com/NSI-CoQ10-Japanese-Natural-Pharmaceutical-Grade-100-mg-240-Capsules

saluki · July 2007

Quote:

I rattle when I walk-LOL. I am 40 yo, triple +, on Arimidex, Fosamax and Herceptin, with a resulting bad case of insomnia. I worked with a naturopath for my particular situation. I feel great after fine tuning my supplements!

SUPPLEMENTS (all daily by mouth)

For insomnia (a lot, but better than the ativan I used to take every night):
Melatonin 10mg-20mg
Valerian extract 250 mg
50 mg Benadryl
GABA 500mg

The rest:
Green tea extract 1,000mg
Selenium 200mcg
Flax oil 2,000mg
Fish oil 2,000mg
Folic acid 400 mcg
1-2 tbsp ground flax seeds
Curcumin 1,000mg
Multi-vitamin
1 oz. concentrated pomegranate juice
Glucosamine MSM 3,000mg
Grape seed extract 300 mg
Calcium citrate powder 1,500mg
Selenium 200mcg
Co-Enz Q 100mg
1 tablespoon probiotics
Liver support (artichoke and sarsaparilla extract)900 mg- because my liver enzymes have been creeping up since starting Arimidex. Will see in a few weeks if liver support is helping.

Also I added: 3-5 hours a week of hiking (Dr. Susan Love's latest book describes 3-5 hours of moderate exercise, walking, etc., as reducing recurrence rate by 6%)

I hadn't been following this thread closely as the past few months I've been in my own little world. So I just noticed
this post.

I was taking a homeopathic sleep aid with Valerian. I discontinued it when I learned that Valerian Root can elevate liver enzymes.

Here are some more medications and herbs that can also effect LFT's.

Taking liver-taxing drugs calls for periodic testing

RICHARD HARKNESS: AS PRESCRIBED - April 05, 2005

Q: My doctor wants to prescribe a cholesterol-lowering medication that requires periodic tests of my liver. Can you tell me what tests she's talking about and why they're needed?

A: The liver's job is to break down drugs for elimination by the body. In some cases, the drug or some of its breakdown products can damage this organ.

The tests your doctor mentioned are likely those that measure the levels of ALT and AST (liver enzymes) and bilirubin in your blood.

Normal levels indicate your liver is healthy.

When liver cells are damaged, these enzymes leak into the blood, resulting in higher levels. Bilirubin also can climb higher. The yellow discoloration of jaundice is caused by high bilirubin levels.

Minimal elevations of liver enzymes may not be serious. The presence of significantly higher levels, however, especially when accompanied by high bilirubin levels, is a red flag.

The good news is that drug-induced liver toxicity is relatively uncommon. The bad news is that when liver toxicity does occur, it can be sudden and serious.

Early detection of a potential problem can prevent permanent liver damage.

Generally, abnormal liver test values return to normal when the offending agent is stopped or the dosage reduced. It may be possible to restart a stopped medication at a later time.

Unfortunately, the link between a drug and liver impairment may not surface until after the drug has been FDA-approved and in widespread use.

In fact, serious drug-induced liver injury is the leading reason drugs are withdrawn from the market. Examples include bromfenac (Duract), ticrynafen (Selecryn), benoxaprofen (Oraflex) and troglitizone (Rezulin).

Following is a representative list of drugs that call for liver function monitoring to help ensure safe use:

Acarbose (Precose), amiodarone (Cordarone), amprenavir (Agenerase), atorvastatin (Lipitor), azathioprine (Imuran), bosentan (Tracleer), carbamazepine (Tegretol), celecoxib (Celebrex), dapsone, diclofenac (Voltaren, Arthrotec), efavirenz (Sustiva), ethotoin (Peganone), ethosuximide (Zarontin), felbamate (Felbatol), fenofibrate (Tricor), fluconazole (Diflucan), flutamide (Eulexin), fluvastatin (Lescol), gemfibrozil (Lopid), gemtuzumab (Mylotarg), griseofulvin (Gris-PEG), imatinib (Gleevec), indinavir (Crixivan), isoniazid, isotretinoin (Accutane), itraconazole (Sporanox), ketoconazole (Nizoral), ketorolac (Toradol), lamivudine (Epivir), leflunomide (Arava), lovastatin (Mevacor), meloxicam (Mobic), methotrexate (Rheumatrex), methsuximide (Celontin), methyldopa (Aldomet), nabumetone (Relafen), nefazodone (Serzone), naproxen (Naprosyn, Aleve), nevirapine (Viramune), niacin (Niaspan), nitrofurantoin (Macrodantin), oxaprozin (Daypro), peginterferon alfa-2a (Pegasys), pemoline Cylert), pentamidine (Pentam), pioglitazone (Actos), piroxicam (Feldene), pravastatin (Pravachol), pyrazinamide (Tebrazid), ribavirin (Rebetol), ribavirin/interferon alfa 2b (Rebetron), rifampin (Rifadin), riluzole (Rilutek), rosiglitazone (Avandia), rosuvastatin (Crestor), ritonavir (Norvir), simvastatin (Zocor), sulindac (Clinoril), tacrine (Cognex), tamoxifen (Nolvadex), terbinafine (Lamisal), testosterone (AndroGel, Testim), tizanidine (Zanaflex), tolcapone (Tasmar), valproic acid (Depakote), Voriconazole (Vfend) and zileuton (Zyflo).

The over-the-counter pain-reliever acetaminophen can be toxic to the liver at higher-than-recommended doses.

Herbs and dietary supplements that can injure the liver include chaparral, comfrey, coltsfoot, germander, kava, pennyroyal oil, skullcap, valerian root, androstenedione and DHEA.

Combining these agents with each other or with alcohol amplifies the risk.

Signs of possible liver dysfunction should be reported immediately: fatigue, abdominal pain, nausea and vomiting, appetite loss, dark urine and jaundice.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
Richard Harkness is a consultant pharmacist who writes on health care topics. You can write him at 1224 King Henry Drive, Ocean Springs, MS 39564 or e-mail rharkn@aol.com.

Anonymous · July 2007

Quote:

I don't know that I can give you a value for copper to look for in a supplement--my doc didn't want my supplements to add any copper and my blood level was apparently OK.

From what I've read, we want more zinc than copper in our blood and we also want high magnesium levels. If you Google 'copper zinc cancer' you'll find that many cancers co-occur in people with high copper to zinc ratios.

Thanks, BBS. I seemed to have missed this response. But sometimes I can't remember where I've posted.

Not to seem TOO dumb, but I think what I'm getting in copper is 2 mg (is that how they measure it?).

I'm taking a B complex that has 800 mcg of folic acid. After reading what Rosemary has posted I'm thinking I should cut back. I believe the upper limit is 1000 mcg (is mcg right? Don't have the bottle here with me. I think I need a nap! ).

I get so ABSOLUTELY confused!
Shirley

Rosemary44 · July 2007

Slowly but surely, one by one, they're taking away our vitamins. They'll work on every vitamin and mineral out there till we're left with only drugs.

About folic acid, they're thinking that 400 mcg is enough because a lot of foods are already fortified with it and some, of course, have it naturally.

http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/Data/SR18/nutrlist/sr18w435.pdf

BlindedByScience · July 2007

The only multivitamin tablet I know of without copper (besides the mega-supplement from Life Extension) is from Allergy Research. It's called Multi-Vi-Min.

You can find the ingredient list here:

http://www.springboard4health.com/store/more_arg_multi-vi-min.html

It comes with or without copper, so be sure to get the formulation you want. It has 60 mcg Folic Acid and 40 mcg Selenium (200 mcg is looking like too much these days).

Anonymous · July 2007

Hmmmm...a friend of mine who has fibromyalsia went to her rheumy the other day. He tested her for Vit D. They said she was low. So they're giving here the D2. However, they also told her to take folic acid and not to go above 1000mcg. Also told her to take Selenium and I do believe they said not to go above 400 mcg. I wonder why this recommendation. She's taking a multi already.

BlindedByScience · July 2007

Who knows what the eventual consensus will be, but 200 mcg selenium has recently been said to increase the risk of diabetes, type 2; and folic acid in large amounts may increase the risk of colon polyps which lead to colon cancer.

If you eat the recommended daily servings of fruit & veggies, a multivitamin is probably good coverage. Many things, vitamins & supplements alike, when tested as single agents against cancer cells in culture or mice, will show anticancer effects. It may be that for long-term health, getting these compounds in food, along with all the other compounds that the plants make, keeps other side effects in check. We will probably not have a clear answer in this lifetime! I am scaling back and modifying and adding to my supplements as new information comes out.

I believe (so far) that Vitamin D plus calcium & magnesium, C0Q10, a complete multivitamin (w/o copper), fish oil & other omega-3 fatty acids, plus some mushroom extracts, curcumin, DIM and resveratrol are worth taking.

saluki · July 2007

Pretty much what I take except for the DIM which Is next to my
bed and I continually stare at---wondering------should I?

Susie

Anonymous · July 2007

Geez, BBS, if I tell my friend all of this she'll just get more confused. She does take a multi. However, I am inclined to go with what you and many others are saying. Too much can be a bad thing.

Quote:

I believe (so far) that Vitamin D plus calcium & magnesium, C0Q10, a complete multivitamin (w/o copper), fish oil & other omega-3 fatty acids, plus some mushroom extracts, curcumin, DIM and resveratrol are worth taking.

I'm taking the cal, mag, D3, fish oil, and some curcumin (but need to order it because I got the wrong kind). I also take a small amount of grapeseed extract. I see you are taking resveratrol. Is that better? I'm taking green tea because I haven't started drinking it yet. I started a B complex but saw it had 800 mcg of folic acid. I just started that so no harm done. I won't take it anymore. But, what about those who drink A LOT! I've read they need folic acid. I'm speaking about my DH. Would it be safe to give it to him. I don't want to kill him (just yet . What kind of vitamin A is safe since it can be bad for our bones if we get too much (right?). I stopped taking a multi.

I suppose I need to redo all my supplements. Oh me. Oh my.

saluki · July 2007

Shirley -I do take a B complex but I am leary of thiamine and wound up going with one that limits it to 25mg (couldn't find one with less, and I augment my B12 and B6 anyway. My complex also keeps the folic acid to 400mcg.

I'm a little more leary of the multi and used to use LEF without Copper but it was an amazing amount of capsules to take
(I found the powder hard on the stomach) in a day and they were always revamping the ingredients which I found really disconcerting.

Other than thiamine, I am also very leary of the amount of vitamin A, esp considering my history of fractures and Accutane. If the source is not Beta carotene I won't take it.

Very confusing,--isn't it?

So it almost necessitates making your own multi vitamin.

What are you taking?

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