Too much fish oil and LDL

Anonymous · July 2007

Hi everyone....Thought that I'd pass along my PCP's advice when she was reviewing the list of my vitamins and supplements. I've always taken 2,000 mg fish oil/day and have excellent cholesterol levels. She observed, however, that my LDL could be even better if I cut the fish oil to 1,000 mg/day. Apparently, studies are showing that too much fish oil can raise LDL. Just thought I'd pass that along.

Marin

cp418 · July 2007

Thanks FitChik - I am takng the same amount of fish oil daily thinking it was a good thing. My recent cholesterol was 200 but I had a high HDL. Now I'll cut back. Joann

Anonymous · July 2007

Hmmmm...my LDL was 86. I want to get my HDL up. I suppose that would take eating right and exercising.

I take about the same amount of fish oil that you take. My friend's husband takes, I thing, about 3000 mg per cardiologist's suggestion. I'll have to ask her to make sure I'm right.

Calico · July 2007

If I think correctly here, a high HDL is good and it can bring your total cholesterol above 200 because they add all the cholesterol values....so it is important to look at each one rather than the whole number by itself....which in this case isn't so bad.

I would be happy if my HDL still was 84 like it was two years ago. I was down to 61 last year (due to Femara?)but that was still great.
As long as the LDL is close to 100 or even less...that's awesome.
So I take an LDL of 89 anytime...puts your heart attack risk way down.

Triglycerides can be high even with cholesterol being normal....important to watch those too and a lot of docs "prescribe" Fish oil for these...

God Bless

BlindedByScience · July 2007

Fitchik--is your doc saying fish oil, specifically, raises LDL? I'd think that if someone wants to cut fat in their diet, the first place would be in salad dressings, fried foods or in the use of other less-desirable fats (trans-fats, palm kernel oil, coconut oil and corn, soy, safflower, canola oils) to be able to keep fish oil, CLA, olive oil and flaxseed oil levels as the majority of added fat in their diet.

But I'd be very interested to know if fish oil is a problem, rather than just overall total fat in the diet...

Rosemary44 · July 2007

Back in '89 it did in this study for men:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez...Pubmed_RVDocSum

That was when only men were being studied. I'm sure they have a balanced representation since then, but I can't find a more recent study.

roseg · July 2007

How many mg is the 1-g they mention in that study? I failed weights and measures.

I see my "Flax, Fish and Borage Oil" only has 400mg of fish oil.

I really hadn't been after cholesterol benefits, I just think it improves my skin.

Rosemary44 · July 2007

Rose,

1 gram = 1000mgs. I'm taking fish oil for some reason and it can't be for memory. I don't have high cholesterol, so why am I taking it? I'll have to think this over.

JoanofArdmore · July 2007

Fascinating, Marin!
I have recently cut my fish oil to 1 capsule(1,000 mg), during a spell of IBS.My IBS responds badly to fatty diet..

On this subject, (and very EWWWW-worthy), I've been noticing this summer that when I get too warm, I .."stink".I smell entirely different than myself.
I cant place the source of the smell-it doesnt seem to be my sweat.(I'm constantly smelling my 'pits, my scalp.)

I just admired a birthday card with a picture of a laughing Golden Retreiver saying "You're getting old, but you dont have that old-person smell yet!"

Do you think this is old-person smell?
Do you think it could be a bi-product of too much fish oil?(At noon I take a cod-liver oil small cap, for my vision)
I dont have a fishy smell.
Sorry to be gross.
j

Jaybird627 · July 2007

Joan, I'm sure you don't have "old person smell" just yet! Well, maybe you do - do you smell 'musty'? Because, to me, that is 'old person smell'!

I hope you figure out the source of your odor!

Jaybird

JoanofArdmore · July 2007

Thanks, Honey!
Nooooo, I dont smell musty.
And Janice, you know more than I do, because I really dont know WHAT old-person smell is.

I did notice that my urine smells that way today.I cant describe the smell-not sweet, not sour, not stinky, not as usual.
Is probably the damn femara.
When I hit menopause my urine melled weird.

NOT that I go around with damp panties(or depends).Only--maybe my body is changing..
Maybe it IS old-person smell in that it's being caused by lack of estrogen.

Oy.

Or maybe body changing because of too much fish oil?

Kitty_Cat · July 2007

Thanks for the tip Marin. I just had a cholesterol check yesterday along with my 3 month cancer blood test. I don't know what it is yet but I have been taking 2000 a day as well. Guess I better cut that to once a day to 1000 mg.

roseg · July 2007

I went back and looked at my capsules. While it's only 400mg of fish oil there are other items that bring the total to about 2,000 mg, ie 2-g (?)

Maybe every other day is the way to go?

The main "old person" smell that I notice, and I catch it when I visit my MIL in her seniors community is pretty gross. I'll mention it here but don't hold it against me. I think it builds up in this apartment building because they aren't big on opening the windows for fresh air - but it's kind of a poop-metamucil smell. The moral of the story being that you need to get some fresh air into your apartment sometimes -- even if you don't think you need to!

I warned you it was gross.

Anonymous · July 2007

My doctor just said that though my numbers were good, she felt that the LDL could be even better if I halved the fish oil. It seems that they look at the RATIO of HDL to LDL and have a preferred balance that indicates ideal.

Marin

Anonymous · July 2007

My ratio is 2.2 with limits of 0.0 to 3.2. Now, I can't imagine that they wouldn't be happy if your limit was above 3.2.

While I was on chemo (not on fish oil) my LDL went down to 48! My pcp said that was the lowest number he had seen in his practice. Well, I'm sure the chemo messed around with those numbers. My onc said they didn't do cholesterol during chemo (I don't think oncs EVER do cholesterol).

My fishy oil has 400 mg of EPA, 200 mg of DHA and 140 mg of other Omega 3s.

Anonymous · July 2007

Joan, I just lost my post to you. Darn that makes me mad! Not that it was of any value.

My aunt used to tell me she smelled like an old person..that old people stink as they got older. I used to laugh at her. AND she told me she could smell cancer. I told her to get away from me (this was before bc). My uncle who she took care of had lung cancer from asbestos. After he died she said she couldn't get the smell out of her house. I never smelled anything. LOL

A couple of weeks ago while visiting my daughter over the weekend my urine was soooooo strong. I don't know if it was caused by me not drinking enough fluids and/or from sweating. I sweat easily..not prespire. While giving the kids a bath one night I was sweating profusely. Even WHEN I go shopping for clothing I sweat so badly that I'm wiping my forehead. I hate sweating especially when I'm trying to get ready to go somewhere. The hair is wet and the makeup is running.
Shirley

JoanofArdmore · July 2007

Shirley, me too, sweat easily.I HAAAAAATE summer, loooooove cold weather.
And my peculiar smell..old person smell?It doesnt come out when I do all this copious sweating.I'm thinking it is a systematic body change, from having 9 for an estrogen value.And that it's just IN me.

I just joined a thread where the sister was having odor hallucinations.She smelled leaves burning.
I said I know that smelling burning is a sign of brain tumor, and also of schitzophrenia.
But when I had it, ages ago, my doc told me I had neither--what I had was an inflamed sinus membrane.
The thread-poser has one too!

And so knowing this, I'm thinking maybe my weird smell is another sinus manifestation.My sinus is like a huge ball of mercury.Head heavy,the mercury rises higher & higher when it's hot& humid.
So sometimes I can smell nothing, sometimes I can smell individual spices in my cooking.Depends on the whim of the "mercury."
Maybe I'm turning into a dog.(beeeeeatch!)

Rose, when my mother broke her hip, she did pt in a nursing home.My daughter pointed out to me that it smelled like....slather.

Could slather be my problem? (I just licked my hand and smelled it.) Nope!

No metimucil-poopy around here.
The condo I'm presently moving from has 1!!!! bathroom.
I am SO sensitive about it.
I'm sort of overfussy about smells anyway.Dont like food smells in the bedroom.Always close the bedroom doors on Thanksgiving...
I also burn Nag Champa incense it the (windowless) one bathroom evey time I poop.Otherwise how could you live?
I also squeegie my tiles daily, because I hate the smell of mildew.
So it's not a moldy old person smell from my house.

I would ask one of my daughters to smell me but...how much can you ask of them??

My mother always smelled like herself when old..

The mystery continues.

Anonymous · July 2007

Joan, I'm sorry, but I'm laughing AT you. LOLOLOLOLO You should be on a stage..you know, a comedian! I know you are serious, but think of it. You'd have the place falling over with belly laughs. I love the way you describe the smelly stuff.

My aunt could smell stuff no one else could smell. My smeller isn't too good lately except when my urine was strong! Boy, it musta been strong for me to smell it!

I can just see it now...dear daughter, would you please smell me..no here and here and over here..LOLO
Shirley

Oh, and btw, I sweat in the winter too. And I sweat with the AC waaaay down when I'm cleaning. And I get all red faced. But the red face is only when I work. LOL Work? What's that?

JoanofArdmore · July 2007

Shirley, you go right ahead and laugh at me.That's what I'm for. The only reason I wasnt voted Class Clown in HS was that only boys won this "honor" in the 50s.
Plus I get weirder the older I get.I might even have been almost normal in those days.

Laughter is the most fun free thing I can think of, as well as the best medicine.

Nan72 · July 2007

Thanks fit chick, I recently started on Fish oil at my cardiologist suggestion for high ldl. I am glad to hear I can cut back on the dosage some as the fish oil taste was repeating on me( not a pleasent thing:) She also said I could take red yeast rice supplement and or cQ10.

JoanofArdmore · July 2007

Nan, red yeast rice and or coQ10 instead of fishoil?

Here's a good hint:Keeping fish oil caps very cold (in fridge) helps with the repeating.
I read this at some doctor's site, maybe Dr Weil.

There is also a brand of fish oil, called Fisol, by Nature's Way, I think, which is enteric-coated, or mint-flavored in the capsules.Something special.
They made it to prevent against "fishy burps".

Nan72 · July 2007

Hi Joan,
Thanks for the tips on keeping the capsules in the frig. I read that it makes them work better when kept cold also.
The mint flavored ones do sound better than fish tasting oil though don't you think? lol
She said together or seperate , my sister just does the red yeast rice supplement. My onco said that since I am taking Femara he suggests only the fish oil as studies on reaction to the Femara on the other items have been done yet. One of the side effects of Femara is that it can make your cholestrol level rise.
I aslo eat oatmeal daily and walk every day.

JoanofArdmore · July 2007

Thanks, Nan!
I'm in my 4th year of femara.I used to have "normal" cholesterol readings, made good because my HDH was so high?
Thanks to Femara, my LDL has kicked up, and my whole value is raised.(Of course good HDH is down.)

I have been taking fish oil, started red yeast rice, and take coQ 10 to ameliorate the damage adriemycin did my heart.

But friends are suspicious, now, of RYR.Because their liver values have raised slightly while on it.
Always something.

Althea started a thread in Alternative about Apple Cider Vinegar, a great old Vermont cure.
I have given up one fish oil cap, and one red yeast rice in favor of 2 tablespoons of ACV twice daily.Thinking ACV has GOT to be Ok for the liver!
If interested, Althea has given a link to the write-up on apple cider vinegar. Which is a cure for high cholesterol as well as other things!

Nan72 · July 2007

Thanks Joan I will have to take a look at the Cider Vinegar information.
Have a wonderful evening

rrs · July 2007

This is good information AND terribly funny! Thank you for making my morning. I thought flax seed was not good for ER+ This is so confusing.

Re: OPS (old person smell) -- I agree with Rose about people not opening their windows. Houses full of mold, moth balls and dust. Also, I think sometimes a bath might help matters. I am committed to not having OPS or OPHS (old person house smell).

Joan - you are so funny. You don't smell. Seems like people who smell aren't the least bit conscious of it.

Rosemary44 · July 2007

"I thought flax seed was not good for ER+ This is so confusing."

It's good for mice with BC, ER+ and - . I can say no more.

biondi · July 2007

HI LADIES, I HAD A CHOLESTEROL OF 299, AND I AM THIN AND DON"T EAT MUCH FAT. THIS WAS SEVERAL YEARS AGO. I WAS TOLD THAT A PERSON'S BODY MAKES 75% OF THEIR CHOLESTEROL, AND THE OTHER 25% WAS CONTROLLED BY DIET. SO I STARTED ON EXERCISE PROGRAM, EVERY DAY, AND IN 6 MO. IT WAS DOWN TO 216. THE ONLY THING I CHANGED IN MY DIET, WAS TO ONLY USE OLIVE OIL AND LEMON OR VINIGAR FOR DRESSINGS. EXERCISE ALONE, SEEMS TO KEEP MINE DOWN, I TAKE SPECTRUM FISH OIL TABS TOO.
ABOUT SMELLS: WHEN I WAS ON FEMARA, MY URINE HAD A STRANGE, STRONG ODOR, SO I DRANK LOTS OF WATER, AND ADDED A LITTLE PURE CRANBERRY JUICE TO IT. AND THE ODOR STOPPED.

WHEN I WAS STUDYING "CRIME SCENE CLEANUP" FOR A CLASS I WAS DOING, WHEN ALL ELSE FAILED, THE CREW USED LISTERINE IN THE BATHROOM TO GET RID OF "DEAD BODY/BLOOD SMELLS". THAT'S WHAT I USE NOW, AND MY BATHROOM SMELLS GREAT. JUST PUT SOME ON A SPONGE, AND GO OVER SURFACES..

saluki · July 2007

Quote:

Thanks, Nan!
I'm in my 4th year of femara.I used to have "normal" cholesterol readings, made good because my HDH was so high?
Thanks to Femara, my LDL has kicked up, and my whole value is raised.(Of course good HDH is down.)

I have been taking fish oil, started red yeast rice, and take coQ 10 to ameliorate the damage adriemycin did my heart.

But friends are suspicious, now, of RYR.Because their liver values have raised slightly while on it.
Always something.

Joan, If you are taking red yeast rice remember to get enough co enzyme Q 10 since red rice yast depletes it.

Also remember you are essentially taking Mevacor. So, all the side effects of Mercks drug to some degree would apply to Red Rice yeast as well especially the liver toxicity.

Desert Star had a great red Rice thread but, as all information on these boards it quickly disappeared to the hinterlands forever to be lost. There are only so many times you can refind what was lost---a pity.

Susie

Karenfrew · July 2007

All of this is sometimes sooo confusing and overwhelming. Right now i am taking the fish oil once a day, 1000mgs. My onc recmmended twice a day ( for the joint pain in conjunction with glucoasmine & calcium with Vit D
WHo knows what to believe or to do?

Kathy

Rosemary44 · July 2007

Kathy,

If you don't have a high LDL level, fish oil is very beneficial so don't worry about taking it. I'm impressed with your Onc for telling you what to take. But I don't see magnesium on your list. Are you taking it with the calcium?

Too much fish oil and LDL

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