Is anyone else an atheist with BC besides me?

Truth

One of my favourite things about Canada (number one is healthcare) is that we have no idea for the most part who has what if any beliefs. I have no idea if our Prime Minister has a religion. Our NDP leader wears a turban and we know he is Sikh but he doesn't talk about it. I think religion here is seen to be personal.

Wrenn, more importantly, I think it is seen to be irrelevant. Just how it should be.

I agree about teaching children. How are children understanding transubstantiation? Or any of it really.

DivineMrsM, Ooh, I love that!

I was raised Catholic, went to Catholic school. Guilt is a big tool for them. I'm still afraid of nuns! A lot of these types of religion are a political machines intent on brain washing.

Haha! I was even raised Catholic and never heard the word transubstantiation used to describe the transformation of the Eucharist!

Which leads me to a similar question like you had, wrenn. How do people go about telling their young children what Immaculate Conception means? I mean, there are many Catholic Schools that use that phrase such as “Our Lady of the Immaculate Conception Elementary." Don't kids first have to first know the basics of how conception occurs? At what age does that start and then does it segue right into Mary’s virginity and how wonderful that is? Teaching lots of sexual hang ups right out of the gate.

One good thing about Catholicism: without it, we'd never have had Tom Lehrer's Vatican Rag.

https://youtu.be/pvhYqeGp_Do

First you get down on your knees,
Fiddle with your rosaries,
Bow your head with great respect,
And genuflect, genuflect, genuflect!

Do whatever steps you want if
You have cleared them with the Pontiff.
Everybody say his own
Kyrie eleison,
Doin' the Vatican Rag.

Get in line in that processional,
Step into that small confessional.
There the guy who's got religion'll
Tell you if your sin's original.
If it is, try playin' it safer,
Drink the wine and chew the wafer,
Two, four, six, eight,
Time to transubstantiate!

So get down upon your knees,
Fiddle with your rosaries,
Bow your head with great respect,
And genuflect, genuflect, genuflect!

Make a cross on your abdomen,
When in Rome do like a Roman;
Ave Maria,
Gee, it's good to see ya.
Gettin' ecstatic an' sorta dramatic an'
Doin' the Vatican Rag!

Source: Musixmatch

Songwriters: Tom Thomas Lehrer

Alice - the Vatican rag brings back memories - Oh am old!!!

Even more fun with Catholic beliefs, the Immaculate Conception doesn't refer to Jesus' conception, it refers to Mary's. Mary's parents were both barren. They prayed for a child, and god sent Mary. Since she was conceived without sex, she was born without the stain of original sin. This made her a worthy vessel for Jesus.

But all of this is nonsense, since as a good Jewish woman, she would have had a ketubah that would have specified how frequently her husband would be obligated to "please" her in bed.

Miriandra, that's not what I was taught the Immaculate Conception means. We were taught that Mary was and remained a virgin, no penis in vagina necessary to conceive Jesus, i.e., Immaculate Conception = virgin birth. God planted the seed in her, not Joseph. She also didn't die. The skies parted and she was raised up into the heavens by God to live with God eternally, i.e., the Assumption.

Therein lies more complication. Not all Catholics were taught the same thing. If you google Catholic Assumption, you will get different takes on its meaning. But back in the 1960s when I was fully immersed in the Catholicism of my parents attending Sunday church and Catholic school, those were the things that we were taught.

I also assumed the Bible stories were literal, that someone lived inside a huge fish and that someone actually turned into a pillar of salt, ect. No one ever told me differently, not a priest, a nun, a youth group leader, a lay person. Years later, I read numerous books where people said, well, our priest said the Bible was not to be taken literally. So wtf?

"Sep 10, 2021 03:01AM saltmarsh wrote:

I am absolutely jealous of people who have faith. It nearly always makes everything so much simpler, and nicer. And sometimes fun!"

I have had that same thought many times throughout the years. that people who had strong religious beliefs didn't have to THINK so hard to figure things out - they just went by what their religion told them. they had it easier, not having to consider many sides to an issue, their religion told them in black and white terms what was good or bad.

Miriandra - Yes, Immaculate Conception is not the same thing as virgin birth. Immaculate conception refers to the doctrine, that Mary, from the moment of her own conception, was not tainted by original sin, as she was already pre-determined to give birth to Christ. the discrepancy is that "original sin" is often viewed as meaning sex, so there is some question as to whether it meant that Mary was also conceived without sex. The church does not believe that mary was also the product of a virgin birth, but that when she was conceived, god prevented her soul from having the stain of original sin. Because, of course, Jesus could not be born from a womb that was tainted by sin.

My take on it is that it is all about different interpretations of words like sin and grace, and even virgin. I had read once that the word "virgin" was often used to mean young woman, and that it is very possible that the misinterpretation of a scripture was behind the whole 'virgin birth' thing.

More evidence that it's all relative and made up. xD

Since Mary's parents were described as "barren", I'd assume that meant they tried sex at least a few times before resorting to prayer. But obviously dogmatics have discussed it back and forth over the centuries.

Ketubahs also likely have regional flavors. My friend loves to share that her ketubah includes the conjugal clause. She's done loads of research into medieval and renaissance Jewish traditions, and drafted it with their rabbi based on surviving extant examples. Modern Orthodox ketubas are certainly different, since they're legal documents for rabbinical courts, and modern marriages have different needs than those from 400-500 years ago.

Trishyla, yes, I agree that religious dogma is made up stories. I have heard so much from the nuns in catholic school, about how you MUST believe, and how you should never doubt, I found it very oppressive. I was being taught to not think, and that goes against my nature.