I found this interesting although not peer reviewed yet. Doing my best to remain neutral here because truth is with a novel virus it is going to take time to get the correct answers. Even with vaccines it seems we are still not quite there.

COVID SCIENCE-mRNA vaccines trigger backup immune response; some cancer drugs may help (msn.com)

KBL - To be clear, I'm willing to hear you out, but you are going to ignore me. I've never asked you to be silent.

SerenityStat, just to answer your question, I will not be ignoring you. I will continue to read, and I would even read a new thread. I just want it to be separate. This topic has consumed this thread, which isn’t fair to many.

Serenity - there is indeed a hypothesis, or train of thought, that vaccinating during a pandemic is the worst time to do so for the very reason that it pushes viruses to mutate. I said that this was a plausible possibility. Blaming variants on the unvaxxinated is a witch hunt. Blaming the continued pandemic on the unvaxxed is wrong and thoughtless. You assume that this virus could have ever been wiped out. That assumption is coming to light as more doubtful all the time and a stupid goal to boot. At the very start of this John Ioannidis said viruses do what they do and we know this from all the collected history of human viruses. He said, we can flatten curves but if we think we can save those who are going to die, we are mistaken. By spreading the deaths out over a longer period of time, by taking drastic measures we may congratulate ourselves on what looks like a lower death count, only we will spread it over a longer period of time. When the dust settles, those who were going to die will be dead. Fast, slow, with or without untold societal and economic damage inflicted by arrogant governments and panicked populations, virus is gonna virus. Because his view was not what the politicos wanted to hear or wanted the public to hear, he was removed from the scene. But he is turning out to be right. That lone voice of a small man in a weird suit. He called it. Do what you want, people are going to die, that is how life on this planet works, sorry to say. Have a world war or civil war over the measures you take, set friends into foes, relatives into strangers, the virus doesn't care, it's going to do what it's going to do. 

I acknowledge that  people here have better reasons than most to be vaccinated. Immune compromised is a huge factor in personal risk assessment. But most have lost sight of the truth that to the majority of  people who get covid, it will be a non-event. We  are acting like we are all going to get covid and all going to die from it. That is utterly not even close to being true.   People here are at a higher risk. Get the vax. It makes sense. But for the love of god, having taken the shot that is supposed to save you, that you took to protect your own life, either live like you are protected , mask and distance if you want.  But quit with the howling that you are entitled to feel safe and everyone else should abort the life they had in 2019 to provide you your fictional safety. No they should not. You are not, for any reason aside from the wholesale death of our kids, entitled to even believe you are justified in demanding that sacrifice from your neighbours. That entitlement is rooted in all sorts of false assumptions: we can stop this virus, we're all going to die, the world would be better if the unvaxxed would just catch covid and drop dead, as long as they do it in ditches and seedy hotels and don't go to the hospital where we treat only people who meet a virtue standard and have the social brownie points of caring about others. Blah. 

Discussion is good. Grand. Imperative! But at this point, ALL of us from ALL perspectives could be wrong! Me included. I am willing to see if I am wrong, if I live that long. But at this point none of us know. A little humility would go a long way. 

viruses mutate only when there is transmission between hosts.

Remember viruses cannot replicate on their own (which means that depending on which biological definition of life you use, viruses may or may not be alive). They need to infiltrate a host and use the host's cell to insert their genetic material and only then they can replicate.

So the way to stop viruses mutating is to stop transmission - through masking, social distancing, staying home when sick and getting vaccinated.

(I think some people might be confusing antibiotic resistance in bacteria and how bacteria mutate to evade drugs .... bacteria and viruses are totally different and have different evolutionary mechanisms)

And yes, variants appeared before vaccination and will continue to appear as long as there is transmission

From an earlier post re:pandemic of Covid - "This vaccine- or- not divide is no longer a medical issue. It is a moral / mental health issue." WRONG. This a medical issue, period. If people would stop characterizing it as politics, religion, cults, patriotism, ideology, intuition, whatever and focus on medical/clinical studies we could all get along....better, anyway. False narratives maybe be the Fourth Horseman.

BTW, vaccine or not has take over a place to rant about our cancer (so we can save relationships with friends and family and doctors). Can you take this to a vaccine forum, please?

I, too, agree with Alice (and Beesie, Serenity and many others).

I’ve been following this discussion and find it both interesting and frustrating. I’m guilty of many of the attitudes that seem to trouble runor so much but I have a GD who is too young to be vaccinated and too beloved to be put at risk unnecessarily (so it’s not all about my narcissism). While I’m not convinced that anyone’s opinion will be changed, it does seem that many on BCO appreciate having a place to rant and vent about this issue.

How about a new thread - Fight Club: To vax or not to vax . Any volunteers???

I'll be happy if anyone wants to start a new thread, so we won't hijack this. We even have a Covid branch!

The good news is that countries around the world are doing it so differently so organically: shutting borders like NZ/AUS for years, letting it rip through population in many poor countries, no-lockdown like Sweden, High vaxx, low vaxx, etc. so we will eventually have data which one was the better approach and what actually helped.

One interesting example is Iceland. It's a small highly vaccinated country and they had a huge surge recently, but they haven't had a single death since May.

Dear Members,

Due to the extreme contentious nature of the topic of vaccines, we are requesting that your conversation steer back to addressing members' other issues that also need attention. We appreciate your understanding and attention to this request.

The Mods

Okay. This topic will not go away, so please do as the moderators have asked twice now. Please, please start a new thread. I am not trying to silence anyone. It's going round and round and is just taking over this awesome thread to help others rant about something other than COVID. I have never once tried to change anyone's mind here. This is my last post about this, as I am going to respect the moderators. I AM NOT ANTI VAX. Stop labeling me. You do not know me.

What is so hard for you all to start a new thread?

Here is the perfect spot for it.

Forum: All things COVID-19 or coronavirus

We all need to be vaccinated unless exempt for medical reasons. It's the only way out of this mess. There's a long way to go before we have sufficient vaccines available for the entire world, rich and poor alike. The whole point is to achieve herd immunity. This is a difficult, maybe an impossible task, so why make it more difficult by refusing a vaccination when it's offered?

Am I selfish to expect others to get vaccinated to protect me? It's the way herd immunity works. It isn't selfish or wicked, it isn't my narcissistic sense of self worth talking here. I just want all of us to get out of this mess alive. Vaccination looks like the only way. I don't like it, but there it is.

Aprilgirl "I try to focus on now so I don't get too far on a "hamster wheel" of doom/what next." This is exactly how I feel. I'm not disregarding or ignoring what the future may hold for me; I'm just doing what I can, for now. MOSTLY - I'm staying in the now and limiting how much I research and agonize about what comes next

I'm sure it helps that my cancer is under control, for now - which gave me time to address other non- cancer- related health issues. Yay, more appointments!

NotAsCalmAsILook - your screen name says it all. Love it.

2 hours ago Moderators wrote:

Dear Members,

Due to the extreme contentious nature of the topic of vaccines, we are requesting that your conversation steer back to addressing members' other issues that also need attention. We appreciate your understanding and attention to this request.

The Mods

Thanks, Mods. Now if people will only LISTEN.

Why don't you just ask them to lock the thread? Geez. It's over, done, the last few posts ( an hour AGO) must have been been missed as they CLEARLY went back on topic as the moderators requested.

Quit complaining and get back to ranting. Thanks much.

I do not post very much. I do read. I know that the moderators have asked the Covid discussion to move elsewhere and that is fine. However, the moderators should know that for some of us, our breast cancer "experience" has been oh so much rougher because of Covid. I was diagnosed with metastatic cancer five years ago. I hope for a few (or many) more years, but I have been through nine treatments and only two have worked. When Covid was just being figured out and the hospitals were surging with patients, my oncology practice took those of us with low wbc caused by cancer drugs OFF of those drugs because they believed the risk of being hospitalized during the pandemic was greater than the benefit of the drugs. For me that meant going off a drug that was working and experiencing progression in my cancer. In addition, I feel robbed of time with my family and friends. I wonder when I will be able to volunteer in-person, travel, go out for an indoor anniversary dinner with my partner or even just meet new people easily and without Covid/vaccination worries. I worry that if I or anyone in my family is hospitalized, I won't be able to visit them because of Covid. Although vaccinated, I am not sure how well the vaccine worked for me because I am immune-compromised, so I also worry about dying alone on a ventilator in a hospital.

Prior to Covid, I had a fairly positive and cheerful attitude about all the side effects and significant limitations I experience from my cancer. Unfortunately, I have never been so sad, lonely or discouraged as I am right now. When I read angry but scientifically informed comments about the need for vaccination in this forum, it makes me feel so much better. I do not feel alone in my incredulity at the lack of gratitude people have for a life-saving, scientifically vetted and economy-restoring vaccine. No, vaccination is not perfect (95% effectiveness, not 100%), but clearly it helps a lot because the vast majority of people in the hospital right now are not vaccinated. There is so much more to say about the "science" of Covid, which of course will change over time as we learn more about different variants.

This comment is not a personal attack on anyone. It is simply how I feel and I appreciate that others feel differently. However, moderators, please know that for me at least, stage four breast cancer with Covid is completely different than stage four breast cancer without Covid. I am overwhelmed with sadness that my world has to be so small and so limited and that this probably won't change anytime soon. This is my lived experience of breast cancer. The political is personal.