The Metabolic Approach in Conjunction with Standard of Care

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  • wavesofharmony
    wavesofharmony Member Posts: 106
    edited August 2021

    Esther,I too am taking VitazymXE that I source from Emerson Ecologics

  • santabarbarian
    santabarbarian Member Posts: 3,085
    edited August 2021

    My integrative oncologist had me doing interval training (hiking = natural intervals) 2-3 X per week, stretching (pilates or yoga) 2-3 x, walk every day, Omega 3 pre- and pro-biotics, many plant based antioxidants like quercetin, curcumin, ALA, Ubiquinol, Calcium D glucarate... a TON more... (for longer list see "Success stories" thread in TNBC forum, page 6). Melatonin, metformin. Sleep in cold room, pitch black.

    Diet was nearly vegan/ whole foods... Low meat, low dairy, one egg yolk max per week (whites ok). Super Greens powder, Whey protein isolate. Focused on filling my plate with anticancer vegan whole foods like alliums, cabbages, ginger, mushrooms, fermented foods, greens, colors, berries, nuts. Avocado & oils. Deep Sea fish. No booze sugar or 'white' foods. All nutrient dense. Quinoa/sweet potato as nutrient-dense carbs, during 'rebuild' after fasting. But otherwise, low carb/ edge of keto.

    I was not recommended to take enzymes.

    My only deficiency upon diagnosis was D-- and that was odd since I go outside for exercise AND drank milk with D. Is there an enzyme that unlocks D3? I am A blood. I used to eat meat but now eat almost no meat.

    I have loosened up now after crossing year 3 post Dx...kept up supplements for 2.5 years.... then tapered. Did vitamin C intermittently after treatment too. I still eat very well. I still work out 4-5 x per week, which is enjoyable. I intermittent fast now daily and do a fasting mimic 5 day 'fast' once every 3 months. These practices are sustainable as I like having no aches and pains and being more lean. Now I'll have a piece of cake or an alcoholic drink when I feel like one... but way less then before. .

  • wavesofharmony
    wavesofharmony Member Posts: 106
    edited August 2021

    santabarbian,

    It sounds like you have a great plan! When I initially worked with a Naturopathic Physician she had me on more of a vegetarian version of keto, with little meat or saturated fat and extremely low carbohydrate. Following this plan made my cancer worse and made me feel miserable. I was fatigued and nauseous all the time. When I added good quality meat and saturated fat back into my diet with a little higher carbohydrate, I started feeling so much better.

    I do resistance training 3 days a week, with that being a mixture of free weights, body weight, kettlebell, balance/stability and short bursts of high intensity. My cardio consists of vigorous walking (I make a point to get up every hour to move at least 10 minutes), hiking, and Spinning. We also fit in a Pilates Reformer session at least once a week. We are just now getting into some different mobility exercises using mobility sticks and Indian Clubs. Being physically active does a lot to stave off my tendencies toward depression. And feeling lean and strong is an emotional pick up.

    I like that you mentioned sleep because that is something that isn’t discussed much. We sleep in a colder room with blackout shades and an air purifier that adds white noise to block out any noise outside. No electronics in the bedroom. We also use a magnesium supplement called MetaRelax just before bed and I take a GABA supplement for better sleep quality.

    Ma halo

  • wrenn
    wrenn Member Posts: 2,707
    edited August 2021

    I was obsessive about following many of these recommendations to the point of having great anxiety. I was vegan and had green smoothies daily and took all the right supplements. It was very stressful actually and took up too much time thinking about it.

    I have toned it down and now just keep "health" in the back of my mind and have relaxed a lot. For over a year of doing intermittent fasting and eating well but only stuff I enjoy. I eat eggs daily, fish and occasionally have chicken (Longo says those over 65 need more protein and these are easy sources. I mostly avoid fake stuff. I have reversed my type 2 diabetes (internal medicine doc said I am "in remission") A1c is 5/6. I have halved my BP meds and could probably stop them. I lost 80 lbs and although I assume xrays would still show damage from osteoarthritis I have no pain.

    I listen to relaxing podcasts and meditate sometimes. I use the 'Breathe' app on my Apple Watch to periodically remind me to breathe deeply during the day. But the most significant thing I am finding is that I can't get anal about it all. I am 74 so I am not going to extend my life that much but love feeling comfortable.

    The only thing that hasn't improved is my neuropathy in hands, feet and legs. I guess that is here to stay.

  • moth
    moth Member Posts: 4,800
    edited August 2021

    I'm vegan and doing keto while vegan is technically possible but it's a pita and I'm just not convinced.

    The heat is interesting. We have a hot tub but I hardly ever use it - it's my dh's thing. He uses it daily. I really should start.

    re vitamin D - I have to supplement. Canada just is a bit too far north to really get good UV synthesis, even though I've been walking with the dogs daily for years and years. When I was diagnosed with osteopenia after stage I treatment it was super low. I've been on 2000IU daily for years now and it's still hovering in the lower end of acceptable range.

    afaik, green tea and exercise are the only proven interventions for reducing risk of recurrence in triple neg. Didn't work for me but I'm still trying them in case it slows my mets.

    I gotta say exercise is a whole different thing when you're on chemo for 18 mos straight. The fatigue is insane & each treatment (i'm on chemo every 21 days, immuotherapy every 14 days right now) destroys so many good cells that it's hard to recover in between treatments. I feel like I'm working hard just to stay in the same place.

    I read about a study being done in Germany about fasting for chemo. It's for gyne cancers not breast but I liked reading through it because it had details in the supplementals about the food and the protocol. I don't know. I get very faint and cranky when I don't eat. I hated it when I had to do fasting blood work for my clinical trial - & that was only not eating when I got up lol.


  • Esther01
    Esther01 Member Posts: 294
    edited August 2021

    Thank you for that study, moth! I'm sorry about the insane fatigue. I get cranky too when I have to fast for labs. Anecdotally speaking, I have friends who swear by fasting the day before and 12 hours after their chemo that it reduces their side effects, but I am amazed they can go that long without eating. I wonder if it's a water fast or more? I have been meaning to thank you, moth. You always take the time to reach out to the new ladies here who are newly diagnosed and terrified as we were at that moment. You have such a kind heart. I"m glad you have dogs to walk. We have always had german shepherds but not right now. I really miss having dogs.

    I am going to look into the sauna. I'm at risk for lymphedema (11 nodes and now radiation damage). I wonder if it would be safe for me to heat up my arm. We're in California, so I guess I could drive out to Palm Springs and bake in the shade for an hour or two :)

    Wrenn, I love your healthy attitude. Have you ever tried EDTA chelation to see if it will improve the neuropathy? Increases microcirculation and comes with health benefits, including for heart disease, diabetes, stroke/dementia prevention. (I'm laughing because yes, this is anecdotal from my IMD. My new friend moth, I'll find you a study over the weekend. You and Waves might already have seen some good ones. I really enjoy researching :)

    Speaking of, I better run. Heading to my weekly chelation to detox from another week of radiation damage to my poor tissues.

    Blessings,

    Esther



  • NorCalS
    NorCalS Member Posts: 288
    edited August 2021

    Here’s an article I read before starting my AC chemo in 2019.

    https://osher.ucsf.edu/patient-care/integrative-medicine-resources/cancer-and-nutrition/faq/cancer-and-fasting-calorie-restriction

    This article and others (I couldn’t find the study done in Europe - it may be the one Moth referred to in above post), motivated me to fast before and after my infusions. I fasted 48 hours before infusion and 24 hours after. It greatly helped with preventing nausea and vomiting. I think it was much easier to fast during AC because the drugs affected my tastebuds so that everything tasted like chemicals. I fasted before taxol, but had an olive with the premed because I was told to have food with it.

    I have continued with the 24 hour fast once a week for over 2 years now. I finish dinner early and break my fast the next day with a late lunch

  • Esther01
    Esther01 Member Posts: 294
    edited August 2021

    Santabarbarian,

    You mentioned doing HBOT throughout radiation. May I ask, how did your skin hold up? Did it help reduce other side effects like fatigue? I am thinking of asking my IMD this week if she would advise it for me. I am a bit scared of what's to come because I feel some burning in my armpit after three weeks in, and still have four more weeks to go. I do run around with a wedge holding my arm out like the little teapot.

    I just read about HBOT in Dr. Stengler and Dr. Anderson's book, Cancer Outside the Box (2018). It reads, "A number of scientific reviews have outlined the ways in which HBOT is not only beneficial in cancer therapy but also in helping to control side effects of standard therapies." They don't mention during which specific treatments and I haven't read the studies footnoted yet because I'm trying to assemble a file cabinet so I can feel like I accomplished something today.

    Have a good Sunday,

    Esther

  • wavesofharmony
    wavesofharmony Member Posts: 106
    edited August 2021

    in our family we love fitness challenges, so this year we joined a challenge called Run the Year. The idea is to accumulate 2021 miles during the year. We are not runners but walking and cycling are also acceptable ways to accumulate the miles. Over the weekend our team achieved the 2021 mile goal. We knew we were close so we opted to go for a nice hike at a local metro park. We ended up doing a little over 3 miles on trails rated as moderate to difficult. It was very soul soothing to be out in nature being active. Now that our team has accumulated the 2021 miles, we will both continue to individually log miles to see how far we can go and how close we can get to 2021. I have 988 miles to go!

    On to the next challenge!image

  • santabarbarian
    santabarbarian Member Posts: 3,085
    edited August 2021

    My skin did not hold up. (It might have been worse without it?) I looked napalmed. Not painful, but awful looking. But it did heal incredibly quickly with 3 sessions of HBOT -- it was all better in about a week. I had 6 weeks of rads, and my skin held up till last ~10 days of it.

    There's a product called domeboro... an astringent recommended by my RO.... that was relieving to my sore skin.

    I had proton rads so that might be different.

    HBOT is wonderful for fatigue. My main chemo SE was being very anemic. Every time you leave HBOT you feel normal-- oxygenated-- and that is a great boost. I would also fall asleep during the treatment and wake refreshed. Last my HBOT therapist was a HEALER. You know the medical people who are unfailingly joyful, kind, personal. It always made me feel better just to see her.

  • Esther01
    Esther01 Member Posts: 294
    edited August 2021

    Thanks so much, Santabarbarian,

    That's really helpful. I am determined to get HBOT as soon as my IMD approves it for me. I'm glad you had such a good therapist. She sounds a lot like my IMD, whom I adore.

    Waves, congrats on that Fitness Challenge. What a gorgeous spot! 988 miles to go, wow!! You are inspiring me. We have an old, historic, antiquey town square nearby, and I decided to walk near it today. These homes were built in the late 1800s or early 1900s and the massive trees shading these old homes made the most wonderful sounds as the breeze blew through the trees. It was so quiet and peaceful. I needed that today!

    Blessings,

    Esther

  • wavesofharmony
    wavesofharmony Member Posts: 106
    edited August 2021

    Tuesday Thought…

    I don’t know who originated this quote but it is something I embrace:

    You’ll never change your life until you change something you do daily. The secret of your success is found in your daily routine.


    image

  • DebAL
    DebAL Member Posts: 877
    edited August 2021

    waves I agree 100%. Thank you for the reminder

  • Esther01
    Esther01 Member Posts: 294
    edited August 2021

    Thanks Waves, this is great! I'm going to save the link.

    Loved the plumeria, by the way. That's my favorite flower.

    Love,

    Esther

  • NorCalS
    NorCalS Member Posts: 288
    edited August 2021

    That is the first time I’ve heard about exercise oncology. I was advised by two oncologists, several oncology nurses, and TNBC suvivors to walk everyday during my chemo treatment. They thought it would help with my immune system. So, I walked almost everyday (except the day after infusions) for at least an hour. My partner and I woke up early and walked at a local school track (we wanted to be able to park a car near by in case something happened). I don’t know if it helped with my immune system since ANC was low throughout chemo, but it really helped me psychologically to just get outside. I was a runner before dx, but after dx I appreciate the walks and hikes much more. Again, I don’t know if it’s more psychological than physical, but I just feel better after a morningwalk.

  • Heidihill
    Heidihill Member Posts: 5,476
    edited August 2021

    Waves, that quote certainly rings true for me! I decided after my first chemo infusion (TAC) almost 14 years ago to exercise every day. I am still at it. Have only missed when I was in bed with some bug or taking a very long plane trip.

    I had Dr. Schmitz on my sights some time after I had 19 nodes removed in 2008 and started a progressive weight training program based on a European study. It was good to have her confirmation that I was on the right track in preventing lymphedema.

    I also started intermittent fasting way back when to try to starve cancer cells. I had an eating window of 7 to 8 hours for a year and did a low carb Mediterranean diet with the aim of reducing blood sugar levels. My onc also prescribed Metformin (although I am not a diabetic) which I took for just a month (it affected my exercise capacity). But he did say I should take it say around Christmas time when the temptation to eat too many cookies was overwhelming.

    These days I'm just trying to watch my weight and have expanded my eating window to 12 hours. I think I will try to train to run 10K because it's becoming more of a struggle to maintain that weight. I do believe maintaining a healthy weight, a decent fitness level and muscle mass helps keep cancer metabolically at bay, as well as a host of other diseases of aging.

  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Member Posts: 1,376
    edited August 2021

    Great thread, don’t know how I missed it. I will have more to say when I have a little more time, but let me just say, wrenn, the change in your A1C numbers is amazing! So good to see what’s possible with some lifestyle changes.

    I had started a little thread of my own to obsess over my rising glucose numbers. I STILL don’t have my A1C result from the home test I did and the lab at my cancer center could not do a test for me today. My A1C was 4.5 in 2018 when I last tested, no idea what it might be now but I doubt it’s going to be less than 5 again, I’ll be ecstatic if it’s still under 6. I have slacked on exercise and fasting compared to 2018 and let’s face it I am 3 yrs older. But I do have room to improve

    Anyway, congrats to all of you on your efforts! I’ll be back!

  • Esther01
    Esther01 Member Posts: 294
    edited August 2021

    Thanks! I'm just getting to the "Power of Sauna" chapter in the Metabolic Approach to Cancer book by stage IV Ovarian Cancer survivor, Dr. Nasha Winters.

    My doctor uses an infrared sauna and highly recommends them. A fellow patient at my twice weekly 50gram IV Vitamin C appointments says she and her husband just bought an Infrared Sauna by Relax. Her husband is going through radiation for cancer just like me and she says they really love their sauna. They actually put it in their kitchen.

    Heidihill, I loved your post. You're amazing. What you have done is what the most experienced integrative oncologists note among most successful for "keeping cancer metabolically at bay." Right on! I need to bump up my exercise and focus more on building muscle mass. I hadn't even thought of that aspect with regard to avoiding lymphedema.

    Olma, I hope by now you got your A1C numbers back from your recent lab test. My IMD runs those numbers every few months. My MO never did.

    Blessings,
    Esther

  • AnnE16
    AnnE16 Member Posts: 241
    edited August 2021

    Hi Waves,

    Thanks for starting this thread! I am interested in trying HBOT at some point.I just got done with radiation again. Was your oncologist thinking HBOT would make the cancer spread more?

  • wavesofharmony
    wavesofharmony Member Posts: 106
    edited August 2021

    AnnE16,

    Welcome to the thread! At the time I was discussing HBOT with my medical oncologist my cancer was very active and spreading, so yes, he was concerned about the forced oxygen giving the cancer additional fuel. I understand the theory behind using HBOT to increase the oxygen environment because cancer prefers an anaerobic environment.

    I have recently been reading a great book called The Oxygen Advantage by Patrick McKeown. He discusses breathing patterns and how to make them more efficient. His observation is that most of us have spent our lives over breathing, which interrupts the balance between oxygen and carbon dioxide. I have started employing some of his simple tips and am finding some increase in endurance and better sleep.

    Again, we are glad to have you join the conversation!

  • Esther01
    Esther01 Member Posts: 294
    edited August 2021

    Hi Waves,

    On breathing, that sounds like another intriguing read. I have heard it makes a difference for us with cancer. I was told that under stress we take shallow upper chest breaths when we should really be taking deep diaphragmatic, belly-inflating breaths to oxygenate our cells since the cancerous cells prefer anaerobic metabolism over oxygen. Is that something he mentions? I've started diaphragmatic breathing during radiation since I'm motivated to have my heart out of the way of those DNA-damaging blasts but also noticed that type of breathing has a calming effect. I also read that deep breathing is helpful to the lymphatic system in the prevention of lymphedema. My PT prescribed it as one of my anti-lymphedema "exercises."

    I'm so happy that you are seeing an increase in your endurance and also in your quality of sleep. That's awesome!

    Hi AnnE, glad you've found our thread. I am only halfway through radiation but intend to start HBOT therapy ASAP. My doctor doesn't offer it but 100% approves.

    Santabarbarian has lots of experience with HBOT (I think she did HBOT prior, during and after rads) and hopefully will weigh in as well.

    Have a great day today. I'm scrambling to take my mom in for her labs before heading to radiation.

    Love,

    Esther


  • Heidihill
    Heidihill Member Posts: 5,476
    edited September 2021

    Breast Cancer Topic: How shifts in temperature prime immune response

    I posted this 10 years ago! I thought then I had to try to turn on those immune cells. As I posted elsewhere yesterday (Divine's infrared sauna discussion thread) I did take steps to heat myself up involving exercise. It's not so much a metabolic approach but an immune-response approach which has metabolic benefits. Lol. Whether it's heat or cold, when your body has to stabilize temperature you burn a lot more energy.

  • wavesofharmony
    wavesofharmony Member Posts: 106
    edited September 2021

    Heidihill,

    Thanks for sharing! Having a multi-pronged approach is a good plan for managing cancer

  • Esther01
    Esther01 Member Posts: 294
    edited September 2021

    That's wonderful, Heidihill. Impressive too, because it was harder to find solid information back then. I didn't see the infrared sauna thread. I'll have to check it out.

    Love,

    Esther

  • Esther01
    Esther01 Member Posts: 294
    edited September 2021

    Good article, Waves,

    I like that it mentioned, what do you do if you have already lost too much weight? At this point, I would love to gain a few pounds so I can do a one to three day water/fluids fast without sliding further down the scale. I know it would help my immune system immeasurably.

    Blessings,

    Esther

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