In Favor of Feminism: Share Your Views

Years ago, my Mom asked my Dad why we never celebrated his parents' anniversary. He said it was because they were married in March and he was born in August. That happened in 1910. The rest of the story came out more gradually. After the shotgun wedding, Grandpa disappeared, and didn't come back to town for I think a couple years. But instead of going back to Grandma, he was living with another woman. Eventually, either one of his sisters or Grandma's mother confronted him about his responsibilities to his little son, and the young couple got back together, and had a daughter and later on, another daughter. This much was known to some degree by the whole family. Then one day in the late 60s, when my first aunt was in her mid-fifties, an old man came into the greenhouse where she worked and told her he was her father. He said he wanted her to have some money. She told him to get lost. So he went to see my grandparents - and Grandma's secret that she'd kept for over half a century came out. She'd assumed Grandpa had left for good, so after a while, she took up with someone else, and got pregnant. She told her mother, who I think she was living with (along with her young son), and it was her mother who basically dragged Grandpa back to his wife, and quick reconciliations happened, enough that he never knew daughter #1 was not his. Jump forward to that day in the late 60s, and Grandma calling my parents to please come over because all hell was breaking loose. Somehow everything got sorted out, my aunt assured Grandpa he was the only father that mattered to her, biological father was told to go away (probably not too far, because his brother was married to Grandpa's older sister!), Grandpa moved upstairs to a different bedroom, and life went on. Grandma and Grandpa were married about 73 years when she died, and he died the next year, both in their 90s. I didn't even find out about any of it until about 15 years ago when my Mom told me, because OMG, my Dad's family scandal!!! Sheesh.

My mother's tearful response when I told her I was living with my husband before we married: "What will I tell my friends?" It was by phone. She hung up on me. Ever since then I never voluntarily told her news. Tried to minimize her gloating.

On the other side of unintended pregnancies, I always wondered if my mother's hysterectomy when she was in her mid-30s was medically necessary or her method of birth control. She was a doctor with other doctor friends. Never asked her. Truth's not her strong suit.

We have recently discovered Garfunkel and Oates. They have a hilarious song about "God's Loophole". Warning - very NSFW!!

Garfunkel And Oates - The Loophole

It's a sad commentary on what girls are willing to do to maintain the attention of boys who really don't deserve it.

I read some of the posts about Catholic teachings about sex and had to chime in. I was raised catholic (now a proud secular humanist) and I went to catholic schools, taught by the nuns. They also taught sex ed, so I was completely uneducated about sex.

One year there was a story in the news, I'm not sure why, about a 12 year old girl who was pregnant. The nun said that the girl was a "sinner" and that god put a baby in her to shame her - to show everyone that she had sinned. Well, that put a scare in me - I was also a "sinner". I sometimes told lies, I fought with my siblings, I disobeyed my parents, little stuff like that. BUT - god could put a baby in me, to show the world how bad I was???? I was terrified. AND - wait, didn't "god" put a baby in Mary? was she also a sinner? but that was supposed to be a good thing, because the baby was jesus? It was so confusing.

Also the someone a page back mentioned the Eucharist. To clear this up - the eucharist, the wafer called the "host" did not REPRESENT the body of jesus. during the mass, the host BECOMES the actual body of jesus. when the priest offers it to you, he says "the body of christ" and you reply "Amen." Amen meaning, yes, I accept that you have magically turned this wafer thing into a piece of the flesh of jesus. This was drummed into our poor little heads during religion class. people who thought the host represented the flesh of jesus were not true believers.

THAT was the thing that turned me - well, one of the things. there was also how in the 60's they changed he rules about a lot of things. But that eucharist turning into actual flesh (and wine into blood, but kids didn't get wine) I remember having a moment of disbelief. And that turned into questioning everything they ever taught me.

Back to the feminism topic - the school was connected to a church, a rectory and a convent. We had a tour once, and I discovered that priests lived somewhat lavish lifestyles. they had women who cooked and cleaned for them, and they ate fancy meals in a nice dining room with good plates and silver. And yes, the women in the church would often bring gifts of food. priests could drink and smoke, and could drive cars. Nuns, however, lived in dreary, plain rooms, and were responsible for their own cooking, cleaning, as well as cleaning the church. their meals were plain, they had none of the amenities the priests had. They spent most of their time praying for the souls in purgatory and doing chores. nuns lived lives of poverty and sacrifice. I have no doubt that nuns were raped by priests - and then blamed for it.

We had to attend a childbirth education course in order for me to be able to deliver my DS at a Catholic hospital. The course was conducted by a nun who used a pink, blue and white knitted uterus to illustrate the delivery of a baby doll. My DH who was a product of Catholic education asked sotto voce how a nun who had never been pregnant could even begin to describe a labor pain let alone the labor process. The couple next to us heard him and nearly wet themselves laughing. Fortunately, she did not but it was a telling point. I was a repeat C-section but was not permitted to waive the course so it ws not of much use to me.

The parish priest we had was from a very wealthy family and did not take the vow of poverty. The rectory was lavishly decorated, he drove a big Cadillac and was known to play the ponies. My GM was the church organist so I had to be careful because he did not practice the sanctity of privacy in the confessionals and once asked if I had considered becoming a nun. When I answered, hell, no, he left his berth and opened the door to my section and read me the riot act. I had been in the convent on many occasions and it looked more like a shelter for the homeless than a living place for women who dedicated their lives to the parish, the church, the school and their congregation. They wore patched robes while he wore very expensive vestments and suits.

I saw in the news that horrible Cardinal Burke has Covid. Karma, baby, after he preached against vaccines. What a prick.

Miriandra

They are incredible! That song should be the feminist anthem, but I think most of us would trip over our tongues trying to get the lyrics out!

Here's some good news! The new Chief Ranger of Grand Canyon National Park is a woman.

https://www.nps.gov/grca/learn/news/chief-of-visit...

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Olma, Thank you for that article. I like to read the stories told by Afghan women themselves to get a true picture of what is going on. So sad for them. It is really heartbreaking but we do need to hear from them to educate ourselves.

in a thread about feminism, all I can say is if you don't believe that women worldwide deserve basic human rights despite any “cultural differences", then I am not sure if w really believe in feminism or the existence of a “patriarchy “.

I am not accusing or putting words in anyone's mouth here. Merely making a statement of my beliefs and I hope to have this be my last word on the topic of the human rights ofAfghani women.

Yes, I totally get what you are saying about feminism but again, when ones concerns are simply survival and the survival of ones children, the western concept of feminism is meaningless regardless of ones beliefs. The effects of culture and religion on a poor uneducated population* have been grossly underestimated in Afghanistan today and for hundreds of years. The failure to understand this and work within the context of their culture is why the country has never been conquered and why women remain in the position they do.

I am not saying this is good or bad only that it is a reality for a country I owe so much to. I think it is also important to understand that the women who, rightfully, are now terrified of losing what they’ve gained are still a minority. Again this is unfortunate but it is reality. If there is to be any hope for Afghanistan and it’s people, it has to be in the context of their culture not ours. Remember if you are worried that 50% of your children will die by age 5, or that you can’t feed those who survive, education and equality for women is not at the top of your to do list. Change will never come unless we stop trying to push that change through the lens of western culture and values. We may not like it that way but trying to change things in Afghanistan needs to come from the Afghan people, not the outside. We simply cannot project our ideals and values on a country whose culture, customs, and traditions are unimaginable to many in the west. Hasn’t worked in the past, doesn’t work in the present.

Afghan- an adjective describing people or things from Afghanistan . Afghani- a unit of currency in Afghanistan

Please don’t get me wrong. I do not support the oppression and backwardness that the Taliban is almost certain to bring. But understanding the reality of Afghanistan, past and present, is something that westerners consistently fail to do.

* A huge portion of the population, male and female, were illiterate when I lived there. The estimates were as high as 90%. Scribes sat on the streets near courts or other official buildings and offered their reading/writing services to the public. Now, that was quite a long time ago but I doubt things have improved much given the chaos that has existed over the years.

Perhaps taking in Afghan refugees can help bring about change for Afghanistan from Afghan people on the outside.

I know of 2 refugees in Montreal who came as children. Both are women who went on to become doctors.