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  • moth
    moth Member Posts: 4,800
    edited May 2021

    Teaturtler, welcome to the board & sorry you find yourself here.

    I think the closest staging is 3C because I think that's any T + 3 lymph nodes but yeah, I can see why they don't want to really stage it.

    So the thing is that strictly speaking, metastatic means "escaped the original tumor site" BUT in common parlance here metastatic is Stage 4 - distant organ. Distant lymph nodes is controversial. I recently saw oncologists on twitter debating what constituted distant = how far from axilla did it have to be & some arguing that all lymph mets regardless of location should be 3C & treated with curative intent (as opposed to stage 4 which is not treated with curative intent)

    Also not sure if you know this already but when no primary is found, that's called 'occult' cancer. Might help if you're doing literature searches to look for that term. Not hugely common but not uncommon either - we have members with occult disease here & my aunt had it.

    I hope you are able to find support here! The monthly chemo thread perhaps? & we have a couple triple neg threads (for Stage 4 & otherwise) and there's also the general hanging out in Mel's living room thread which is open to stage 4 & non stage 4 https://community.breastcancer.org/forum/163/topic...


  • GlobalGal
    GlobalGal Member Posts: 63
    edited May 2021

    Dear Teaturtler,

    I am another round peg who does not fit into a square hole.

    Like you, I have breast cancer that is not in my breasts. It was discovered by accident when I had my thyroid removed for papillary thyroid cancer—along with 3 central neck lymph nodes, which turned out to contain breast cancer (possibly lobular). HER 2 status was unclear as there wasn't enough node tissue to run FISH testing.

    Despite extensive testing/scans, no primary was ever found, but because of the neck location, it was considered metastatic Stage 4.

    Recent PET scan and mammogram were clear. Genetic testing revealed no mutations. There was no breast surgery because there was nothing to cut out and no radiation because there was nothing to radiate. Treatment at this time consists of Anastrozole.

    I just celebrated my second cancer-versary.

    Wishing you good luck, Teaturtler!!



  • KBL
    KBL Member Posts: 2,521
    edited May 2021

    Teaturtler, I do have metastatic to my whole spine, skull, hips, femurs and stomach but also another occult, never found in my breast. I’m sorry. I know it’s totally confusing. I’ve actually had mets for eight years, diagnosed for two. I hope you can get some answers.

  • Positive2strong
    Positive2strong Member Posts: 316
    edited June 2021

    to everyone

    Hello, recently I had extreme pain in my right leg. It is now to the point I could not walk. I went to a spine doctor as I thought I had sciatica. The mri showed a mass 1 to 2 cm lumbar 1.

    Today I took a ct scan, tomorrow a pet scan.

    Is anyone have the same ER PR her that I do or have any of you experienced this

  • KBL
    KBL Member Posts: 2,521
    edited June 2021

    Hi, Positive. You can go to the bone mets thread and read up on bone mets. I have ER+ bone and bone marrow mets from my skull to my knees. I hope your scans come out okay. Please keep us posted.

  • BlueGirlRedState
    BlueGirlRedState Member Posts: 1,031
    edited June 2021

    Positive - Sending you hugs and hoping scans are clean. I am ER+ , PR seems be be not listed/unknown, HER- . Also PDL-1, and AR. Have not experienced bone pain, but am wondering if some pain in lower back right rib is from radiation and recent pleural efusion; or maybe going for months with limited use of R-arm and sleeping weird do to lymphedema; or maybe not doing much stretching, strength building for many months, even though I do do a lot of walking/hiking.

  • Positive2strong
    Positive2strong Member Posts: 316
    edited June 2021

    Everyone,

    I have read on here thatgetting a second opinion is a good idea.. I’m just diagnosed with Stage 4 . All week I have done scans, liver biopsy etc.

    Why is the second opinion important and did any of you get a second opinion.

    Linda

  • exbrnxgrl
    exbrnxgrl Member Posts: 12,424
    edited June 2021

    Hey Linda,

    It’s me, again. I guess ten years at stage IV gives me a bit of amateur cred 😉. I had a second opinion twice. In my case it was self pay (I belong to Kaiser) but it was worth it to have a completely fresh set of eyes look at the situation and make a tx recommendation. I had my second opinions at Stanford and my initial visit involved a thorough work up, in addition to records from Kaiser. It made my treatment decisions very clear when both Kaiser and Stanford proposed the same tx plan. There was so much info coming at me in those early days and I had an unusual complication that required hospitalization so it really made me feel secure and confident in the tax plan. Like you, this was at a time when I was beginning to learn about the very complicated world of bc. Take care.

  • SeeQ
    SeeQ Member Posts: 884
    edited June 2021

    Positive - I had a second opinion - covered by my insurance. This disease is clearly so serious, it seemed prudent to have confirmation of my tx plan and hear a different perspective. An unexpected benefit was that because that conversation was so much easier, it convinced me I needed to keep pushing for the switch to the originally recommended/referred MO (insurance issue that resolved with time). It's important for me to be able to have a comfortable conversation with him, and that was something I couldn't do with my 'interim' MO

  • KBL
    KBL Member Posts: 2,521
    edited June 2021

    I also had a second opinion. I think it's always wise to do so. This is your life, and you want to feel confident you're making the right decisions for you. I’m sorry you’ve become Stage IV.

  • B-A-P
    B-A-P Member Posts: 525
    edited June 2021

    Positive- I am considered ER+ , PR-, HEr2 - ( although i was 2+ on IHC so some would consider that HER2 Low but to my onc, i'm negative). However, My lymphnodes were ER/PR +.

    As for a second opinion, I always think it's a good idea. It's great to have another set of eyes on it and another perspective because your treatment plan is important, and it's important that you feel comfortable with what they are proposing. It is your life after all. Where I live , there isn't much of a second opinion I can get but I do see the head of Breast cancer. I do have a team and they have so far been great. I did get a second opinion from a surgeon because the one who had done my biopsy had blown me off previously, and when she discovered the DCIS, she blew it off as " no biggie, they'll laugh at me for sending you to the Cancer clinic. But I will send you anyway. Don't worry" As if being told at 30 that after 2 years of symptoms being brushed off , I was right to be concerned. Anyway, as the ball started to roll, she was just never around. SO I saw a different surgeon who I jived with so much better. She was amazing and I felt like I was heard. So a second opinion can also just introduce you to people that you feel are on your side and will work for you.

    That's just my two cents :)

  • Jumpship
    Jumpship Member Posts: 305
    edited June 2021

    Question about lung mets. No shortness of breath. I’ve had a pain behind my lung in my back since mastectomy. During massage she pressed on it and I started to cough for a while. Feels like a lump deep in the lung. Don’t want to borrow tomorrow’s troubles but what are signs of lung mets

  • Anotherone
    Anotherone Member Posts: 633
    edited June 2021

    lungs do not hav nervous receptors as far as I know so can not cause pain . What you describe sounds more like muscular/ tendonal/may be even lung lining thing.

    I had breathlessness and persistent dry cough for a bit more than a month before diagnosis

  • Sunshine99
    Sunshine99 Member Posts: 1,680
    edited June 2021

    Jumpship, I would definitely talk to your doctor. Even if it's just mentioned "for the record", your doc can monitor it and follow up with tests if it persists. I mention "stuff" to my MO, like I feel that I'm getting clumsier and she asks a few questions about headaches and/or vision changes and then she makes a note of it in my chart.

    For your peace of mind, you'd probably feel better mentioning it to your doc.

    Good luck! (((hugs)))

  • Jumpship
    Jumpship Member Posts: 305
    edited June 2021
  • LillyIsHere
    LillyIsHere Member Posts: 830
    edited July 2021

    Hi: I have a question regarding a swollen node/bump under the collarbone. I noticed 2-3 weeks ago that on one side under the collarbone I have a lump/swell/bump that can be felt. Feels like a small round bone sticking out, it is hard as a bone but it is new and not symmetrical with the other side. I am thin and can be felt easily. My question is how do cancerous lymph nodes feel like?

    I'm worried.... also tomorrow I am going for follow up US for the thyroid nodule.

  • helenlouise
    helenlouise Member Posts: 420
    edited August 2021

    Hi Lilly a lump on or near your collar bone should be seen by your doctor. Any lumps and bumps that are new or unusual should be investigated, once you have had a cancer diagnosis. There are lots of nodes in this area. It maybe nothing but best to have your doctor check it. Hopefully you mentioned it at your scan.best wishes to yiou

  • LillyIsHere
    LillyIsHere Member Posts: 830
    edited August 2021

    Thank you helenlouise. I do have scheduled my 6 month appointment in 2 weeks and I will mention to MO for sure but until then, I am wondering what is a feeling of a swollen lymph node on the chest. Hard, soft, rubery, feels like bone?

  • Simone80
    Simone80 Member Posts: 988
    edited August 2021

    Lillyishere, I had a distant superclavical lymph node that metastatic cancer. It was hard.

  • LillyIsHere
    LillyIsHere Member Posts: 830
    edited August 2021

    Thank you Simone. Did you find the swollen node yourself or the doctor was able to see/feel it? Mine looks and feels like a bone sticking out.

  • Simone80
    Simone80 Member Posts: 988
    edited August 2021

    I found the lump myself. Hopefully yours is something else. Try not to think the worse case and good luck with your appointment.

  • MinusTwo
    MinusTwo Member Posts: 16,634
    edited August 2021

    Lilly - I found a lump just below my collar bone myself exactly two years after my bilateral mastectomy. Yes it felt hard. Yes, my MO could see & feel it and first said they'd order a CT - but I said NO, you'll do an Ultrasound before I leave the building. Turned out to be a "local recurrence" in a lymph node. But the signature had changed from DCIS to IDC Stage III, and it was HER2+, so I had to go through neo-adjuvant chemo, then ALND surgery and then RADS and then Herceptin for the rest of a year. I do have mild lymphadema and some neuropathy in my feet & fingers from the chemo - but luckily I have been NED since that treatment ended in 2015.

    Did you have a chance to see your doc yet? Fingers crossed for you & sending good thoughts.

  • Sunshine99
    Sunshine99 Member Posts: 1,680
    edited August 2021

    minustwo, I had a similar experience with the lump in my armpit. I made an appointment with my PCP and was all set to argue and insist on an ultrasound for the lump. Turns out that she was in agreement and I stood at the receptionist's counter while they called scheduling and INSISTED that I get in the next day.

    US was followed by a biopsy (that took a few weeks to get scheduled) and then the Stage IV diagnosis.

    Being your own advocate is the best thing you can do.

    Lilly, all the best to you! I hope it's "nothing"

    (((hugs)))

    Carol

  • LillyIsHere
    LillyIsHere Member Posts: 830
    edited August 2021

    Hi Ladies, I came to report back. Today I met MO and asked him about the lump, he checked it and said not to worry! I also had a conversation with him regarding my numbing soles of the feet, forgetting words, etc. and he suggested changing to tamoxifen or another type of AI. Took me a year and a half to feel slightly better with letrozole's SE and I better stay with the devil I know that the one I don't know :)

    I want to thank you again for all your suggestions and support.

  • Simone80
    Simone80 Member Posts: 988
    edited August 2021

    Great news Lillyishere! Thanks for posting an update.

  • LillyIsHere
    LillyIsHere Member Posts: 830
    edited August 2021

    Ladies, I am back carrying fear with me! I had sharp abdominal pain on Saturday, low-grade fever through Sunday, ended up in Urgent Care on Monday and my PCP told me to go to ER on Tuesday. After a long wait for several hours in ER, I left and came home. I am scheduled for a CT scan tomorrow morning. I am nervous. I have had upper abdominal pain for a while now especially on the right side under the ribs, lower legs are kind of swollen and I have some indigestion after eating. The first thought of the PCP was appandesitis but it doesn't seem to hurt anymore. My liver tests are normal but I feel a stitch where the liver is located. Do you think may be signs of something cooking? Any experience? I am getting very nervous.

  • BlueGirlRedState
    BlueGirlRedState Member Posts: 1,031
    edited August 2021

    Lilly - Hoping it is nothing serious and reovers on its own. My left leg recently swelled up, no new pains anywhere. PA seemed unconcerned and thought I should see if it resolved on its own. Did not think it was a clot since I take Eliquis. LE did not think it was related to the cancer based on medical history. Compression stocking and elevation seems to help. But I do feel new pains now and then, usually do not persist, but often return. Want to blame the cancer, and get frustrated not knowing if it is or if it uis something else, Or maybe even just getting older and with the heat and smoke not getting out as much. Need to get to the gym more. Was stretching out at home very regularly, then went into a major slump.

  • LillyIsHere
    LillyIsHere Member Posts: 830
    edited August 2021

    Ladies, I got the results today, and nothing to worry about. Made me so happy and sad about how anxious we get after cancer diagnose. It has changed our bodies and mind.

    BlueGirlRedState, have you tried to massage it from feet up?

  • BlueGirlRedState
    BlueGirlRedState Member Posts: 1,031
    edited August 2021

    Lilly - Sometimes I try massage or light "brushing" upwards. Like so many things, I need to make it a habit.

  • Rocket
    Rocket Member Posts: 1,197
    edited September 2021

    I am 11 years NED. I recently had my routine lab work done at my oncologist office and it was noted that my liver tests, ALP and ALT, were higher than normal. That lab work was drawn on August 25. I saw my primary care doctor yesterday, September 8, and he wanted a repeat of my labs and now all three are higher than normal, ALP, AST, and ALT. They were only mildly elevated however they are trending upward. My bilirubin and albumin were normal. Naturally I am thinking liver Mets, and praying that I am wrong. I know that medication can cause fluctuations in these levels. However, over the last 11 years I’ve only had one of these increase slightly and it was my ALP. I have been on anastrozole for 11 years as well.


    I have been on anastrozole for 11 years as well, and it never caused my labs to go wonky. I have no other symptoms. I need someone to talk me off this ledge. Can anyone chime in on increased liver lab results?I really appreciate any help you can provide.



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