How fast does LCIS grow?

I'm really curious about this, too. I have/had PLCIS in one breast, removed and all that, but I lie awake sometimes wondering how fast this aggressive mutant thing can grow. I've read that it's 'graded' 3, because it can grow relatively quickly. From everything I can get my hands on, it seems that they just don't know a lot yet. I'm grateful that they've started to recognize and learn about pleomorphic LCIS, and that mine was caught early, but it's very challenging to have a condition that is too newly recognized to have much information available. I will say that my medical people watch me like I'm about to spit diamonds at them, which is great. (My NP's hyper-vigilance caught thyroid cancer incredibly early.)
But still. Information helps me so much. Lack of it only feeds my anxieties. If I come across anything, I'll share it!
Hang in there!

I am sorry you are going through this.

Its hard to measure how fast any living thing grows, unless you say it grows X amount at this time, and Y amount at that time. At the beginning, most cells double in number, because they divide into two cells. But they cannot continue to double forever at the same pace: they would eventually get to astronomic numbers, with astronomic food requirements. So eventually the cells run out of food and have to deal with waste disposal.

LCIS is sometimes 'seen' in imaging, meaning that sometimes they see something in imaging, and when they sample or excise that area, it ends up being LCIS. But LCIS is not RELIABLY detected by imaging or palpation. As Gardengirl72 said, its often discovered by accident. Sometimes its discovered not AT the Place of Interest (the suspicious area in imaging), but adjacent to it. You have to have some suspicious finding in order to be biopsied, and you have to be biopsied to be diagnosed with PLCIS/LCIS.

The only way I (as a non-scientist) can think of measuring the growth rate of a tissue that is fixed is to look at the number of cells that are in mitosis in X field. (the mitotic index). I could find this really old paper that only said ...and MI <mitotic index> were, on average, larger in ductal than in lobular carcinomas (2p < or = 0.01)https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8110444/ There was no statistically significant differences in MI in the LCIS and DCIS groups. The sample size is Very Small (29 LCIS, 39 ILC)

In this puny sample, Among the patients with pure PLCIS (not upgraded), 13 of 16 (81%) presented with fine pleomorphic calcifications on screening mammograms, 1 of 16 (6%) with distortion and calcifications, 1 of 16 (6%) with a mass, and 1 of 16 (6%) with nonmass enhancement at MRI. The median imaging size was 11 mm (mean, 14 mm; range, 3-47 mm) https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29894223/ so in this very small sample of pure PLCIS patients, one had about half the size of PLCIS as you had.

You had both ILC and PLCIS. I have seen ILC described as 'the sneaky one'.

Its hard to live with uncertainty, and when things are larger than what you expected. I'm sorry this happened to you.

Yes, LCIS or PLCIS can indicate an increased risk of future invasive cancer, (and of DCIS.)

And we don't know if your PLCIS turned into your ILC. But it probably could have (which would require sequencing both samples, which I don't think can be done except in a science lab.) On the other hand, the ILC may have grown independently of PLCIS. We don't know how many spots of PLCIS or LCIS you had/have.

Yes, PLCIS can probably grow independently of ILC. There are people who have had simultaneously discovered IDC and ILC (1 case in this study https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30185420/).

They (scientists) can do clonal analysis, which looks at the mutations both in the LCIS (or PLCIS) and in the ILC. When they do this, sometimes they find the LCIS/PLCIS has mutations in common with the ILC, and sometimes they don't.

In this admittedly very small study, they looked at 9 patients that had LCIS and then subsequently (2-10 years later) found invasive breast cancer in the same breast. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17380381/ They found 5 cases had ILC and 4 IDC. Two of the ILC cases were clonally related (meaning their LCIS and ILC had mutations in common) and in the other 7 cases they were not.

In this paper, they found Forty-two percent (18/43) of LCIS were found to be clonally related to synchronous DCIS and/or ILCs, with clonal evolutionary patterns indicative of clonal selection and/or parallel/branched progression.https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30185420/

What makes PLCIS/LCIS a risk factor for future invasive breast cancer is unknown. (We also don't know if the risk factor(s) for each are the same.)

In this paper https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33047861/ they found Four NCLCIS <PLCIS/FLCIS> developed ipsilateral recurrences: 2 NCLCIS, 1 IDC, and 1 ILC (50; 10-96 months). No breast event was reported in 24 pure CLCIS (60; 8-144 months). Invasive carcinoma with NCLCIS, unlike CLCIS, is always lobular type. Recurrences following NCLCIS are ipsilateral lobular tumors. <in this study>

There is obviously a lot we don't know about LCIS/PLCIS. In the studies that do exist, often there is controversy. But, eventually, if we let science take its course, we will know more.

Hellowitsme789, what do you mean that you were disappointed your pathology didn’t “include toxins”?

I dont trust the mammos and sonos, only way to be sure it seems is biopsy, ct and at times MRI. I had lcis and for 4 years had mamo and sono and it was benign. It wasnt until I went in for reconstruction to fix the dent from my lumpectomy that they found it was invasive. Even though I know the nature of Lobular is not easy to detect, they have to find better ways to read it. We have spent millions of dollars studying this yet they cant find a better way to read the imaging. Its just NOT ok with me, we deserve better!.

hi I’m concerned I’m due to have left mastectomy in January. I had a partial 2 years ago, I’m told it is calcification not cancer. My head is spinning as my understanding is I have a pre cancer diagnosis. I may never get cancer??? I will loose a breast. Should I wait? Has anyone seeked information or therapy from a naturopath??? Is there any statistics of women not having surgery/ therapy and what their outcomes were??