Lymph node negative tumors

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Mausie
Mausie Member Posts: 49
edited August 2020 in Second or Third Breast Cancer

How many of you have had recurrences even though your tumors were lymph node negative to start with? I was told that was one of the important defining characteristics, but I got a recurrence after 7 years NED from a ER/PR neg HER+ tumor; second was ER/PR+ with HER2 neg, now on tamoxifen!  I have been noticing that most of the women who have recurrences also had positive lymph nodes to begin with. Any histories like mine? Thanks!

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  • Mausie
    Mausie Member Posts: 49
    edited March 2014

    Also, does anyone know why doesn't my data profile show up at the bottom, when I post a message? Irritable little bugger, sometimes yes, sometimes no. 

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  • Nettie1964
    Nettie1964 Member Posts: 759
    edited March 2014

    Mausie,

    I've wondered the same thing, but only how some ladies show no lymph node involvement and then up with METS!  I would think that a local recurrence would not be as bad as mets!  Not that any of it is good!

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  • sandilee
    sandilee Member Posts: 1,843
    edited March 2014

    I had negative nodes and a tumor less than 2cm that managed to metastasize.  Floated through the blood and settled in my bones, apparently.  

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  • Mausie
    Mausie Member Posts: 49
    edited March 2014

    Oh Sandilee, I am so sorry! Your reality is my nightmare!  I am so scared of that, but they keep on telling me, oh, don't worry, you didn't have any positive nodes - I had a feeling that was not the only scenario, that it could metastasize. Now you confirm it. 

    Well, I am wishing you sincerely, all the very best, and I am so sorry to hear that!  

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  • Mausie
    Mausie Member Posts: 49
    edited March 2014

    Nettie, thanks for answering. Yes, I just get scared, and sometimes I get the feeling that my docs have a cavalier attitude. Just FEAR I am sure!  

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  • bluepearl
    bluepearl Member Posts: 961
    edited April 2014

    Negative nodes is still a good prognostic factor but it isn't 100%. Cancer cells can sneak into the bloodstream (called circulating tumor cells) even if  LVI is absent! I keep searching for that magic answer but it isn't there, We just have to do the best we can and help each other....and help research!!!

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  • bluepearl
    bluepearl Member Posts: 961
    edited April 2014

    One can also have second primaries rather than recurrences too. Mausie, this looks like you and really hasn't too much to do with lymph nodes.

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  • shasha_shasha
    shasha_shasha Member Posts: 26
    edited August 2020

    Hello there


    I saw your post, I have a question , you don't lymp node involvement and it happened to be met at your bone, do you have bone biopsy to confirm and mastactomy?


    Regards

    Sharifah

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  • kathabus
    kathabus Member Posts: 205
    edited August 2020

    Hi...yes, I was going to suggest the possibility of a second primary, as well.

    Although my BC was ER+/PR+, I can share with you my experience about what I learned about recurrences/metastasis. I had a positive lymph node, but through the Oncotype test we learned that my cancer wasn't associated with a high risk of metastasis. Not zero obviously, but low. So low that chemo was not recommended, even though I had a positive node. Positive nodes matter, of course....but they are not the only predictor of metastasis. The TYPE of BC you have matters....the stage you find it.....the grade.....it all factors in.



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  • BlueGirlRedState
    BlueGirlRedState Member Posts: 1,031
    edited August 2020

    Mausie - this is the 3rd time BC for me. Nodes have checked negative. No metastatis to date. My oncologist thinks that each is a "new" cancer rather than recurrence, but admits, there is no way of knowing. Maybe she has too much confidence in treatments? A year ago, a genetic test looked for 20+ markers specific to BC, no known found. Negative nodes are a good thing. Probably no metastasis, surgery not as invasive. Losing all those nodes makes you much more prone to lymphedema. Neagtive nodes is good, but does not mean the initial cancer won't come back or a new one develop. I keep hoping for newer methods of very early detection, or better, prevention.

    2009 ER+ left breast. 52 yrs. Lumpectomy, Sentinel node removal, negative. Radiation 6 weeks, tamoxifen 5 years. Dense lumpy left breast, normal right.

    2016 ER+ left breast. Probably a new cancer, but unknown. 4 rounds TC Aug-Oct 2016, Bi-lateral (my choice) Nov 2016, no reconstruction. 2 sentinel nodes remove, negative. Started with anastrozole, quit because of immediate stiffness in hands, locking fingers, Started Tamoxifen after fingers cleared up.

    6/18/2019 - Sept/2019 Noticed Swelling in R-arm, opposite side from where lymph nodes removed. Long story short. Trip to urgent care showed lots of fluid, but no clot. More imaging (CTs. PET), biopsy. Tumor R-axilla, cancer, no metastasis. Start Ibrance and Arimidex. Tumor shrunk 2.5 cm 7 mm(April CT). Fingers crossed that image next week can't find it.

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  • KBeee
    KBeee Member Posts: 5,109
    edited August 2020

    I was node negative and had 2 new tumors within 18 months.

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  • Beesie
    Beesie Member Posts: 12,240
    edited August 2020

    I would guess that the significance of lymph node involvement relates more to metastatic recurrence than local recurrence. A relatively indolent cancer can still recur in the breast if a few cells were left after surgery and rads. But that same cancer might never move beyond the breast.

    And maybe there are some cancers that thrive in the environment of the breast, and therefore are prone to local recurrences, but have no inclination to move any further.

    Just speculating here.

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