BIRADS 4B Scared

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everythingwillbefine
everythingwillbefine Member Posts: 96
edited July 2020 in Not Diagnosed But Worried

Hi,

Glad I found this place. I am 47 and 2 young kids and I am so scared now.

2018 I went for my screening mamo and called back for diag mamo and was recommended biopsy but was clearly told that >95% is benign and it was ALH.

I then consulted two breast surgeons both said just watching which I did.

2019 screening mamo was fine.

This year 2020 June mamo they found new calcifications then I was called back for diag mamo right after. The report says as follows

FINDINGS:
The right breast is extremely dense, which lowers the sensitivity of
mammography. There is a 7 mm new group of coarse heterogeneous
calcifications in the right upper likely outer posterior breast. The X
biopsy clip marking the previous biopsy site which showed ALH is anterior
and inferior to these calcifications. There are no suspicious masses or
areas of architectural distortion.

I took the report and films to another breast center and came back slightly different report but seems even worse.

There are linearly distributed pleomorphic calcifications in the central posterior right
breast posterosuperiorly adjacent to the X-shaped clip, measuring approximately 1.4 cm in
maximum AP extension.

IMPRESSION: Suspicious calcifications in the central upper posterior right breast adjacent
to the X-shaped clip. Stereotactically guided biopsy of the right breast is recommended.

BIRADS: 4 - Suspicious Abnormality.

I am now waiting for my biopsy which is on 7/10

I am so worried. I am prepared for the worst IDC. I just want to know how big chance is that it invades to the lymph nodes already. Since my breasts are very densed that I am concerned that the cancer might be there for some time already.



Comments

  • Beesie
    Beesie Member Posts: 12,240
    edited July 2020

    "linearly distributed pleomorphic calcifications"

    BIRADs 4B has a 10% - 50% chance of malignancy. If your biopsy is not benign, from the description, the most likely diagnosis will be DCIS, which is non-invasive and Stage 0. When calcifications are not benign, usually (I think something like 80% of the time), the diagnosis is DCIS. DCIS cells are confined to the milk ducts, and as the cells multiply, they spread out within the duct, forming a linear pattern. Invasive breast cancer (IDC), on the other hand, is in the open breast tissue and generally forms a solid mass as the cells multiply.

    Most IDC starts out as DCIS, and DCIS and IDC are often found together, so whenever DCIS is found, it's possible to also find some IDC. But with no visible mass or architectural distortion (which is often how IDC presents on imaging), if there is any IDC present, it is likely a very small amount.

    As for nodal involvement, with any amount of invasive cancer, it's always possible to have nodal involvement. But with a small early stage invasive cancer, the likelihood is low. I don't know the percent, but I would expect that it's probably no more than 10%.

    If you go through the math - 50% chance of malignancy (worst case); if malignant, 80% chance of DCIS and 20% chance of IDC; if IDC, 10% chance of nodal involvement - you come up with 1%. But that's dangerous math, because it's piling one probability on top of another probability on top of another probability. So I wouldn't say that your risk of nodal involvement is only 1%, but it's probably fair to say that based the description of your suspicious calcifications, the risk is probably very low.

    As for the cancer being there for some time, that's true of most cancers. Breast cancer as a rule is slow growing, so it is often in the breast for 3-5 years, or sometimes as long as 10 years, before it becomes large enough to be noticeable on imaging. With DCIS, because it is non-invasive, or with an invasive cancer that is not aggressive, the time doesn't matter. But with an aggressive cancer, even if it's found very early and while it's very small, there is a greater risk that it might have already started to spread. The aggressiveness of a cancer is determined through a genomic analysis of the cancer cell, and treatment is based on the aggressiveness and type of cancer. Hopefully none of that is anything you will need to worry about.


    Some excellent information on calcifications: https://radiologyassistant.nl/breast/calcifications/differential-of-breast-calcifications

    Good luck with the biopsy!

    Edited to Add: everythingwillbefine, did you post this same information in djmammo's "Interpreting Your Report" thread? I just looked there, and your post was "Removed by the Community". If you posted exactly the same info there as here, you might want to contact the Moderators to find out what happened. If the post was removed in error and it contained no rule violations, the Mods should be able to reinstate your post.

  • everythingwillbefine
    everythingwillbefine Member Posts: 96
    edited July 2020

    Thank you Beesie!

    For the detailed explanations and analysis. I am worried about the result of biopsy but knowing the probability of invasive is relatively low really eased my mind. Thank you! I am worried about my two girls down the road if they will have to face what I am facing now.... hopefully I am just over thinking everything now.

  • Beesie
    Beesie Member Posts: 12,240
    edited July 2020

    You're welcome!

    It's easy to over-think things when you are anxiously waiting for a biopsy, biopsy results, or surgery results. Our minds tend to go to the worst case scenarios, even if the symptoms aren't pointing there. In most cases the outcome is not nearly so dire as we worry about.

    I see that your post in djmammo's thread has been reinstated. He's the expert so it will be good to get his opinion on your imaging report.

  • everythingwillbefine
    everythingwillbefine Member Posts: 96
    edited July 2020

    Yeah I am so grateful that I found this board. I will wait to hear what he says if he logs in before my biopsy.

    Your reply helped calming down my racing mind. Thank you!

    What a holiday! 2018 I was having biopsy around memorial day weekend and this year around 4th of July. Oh well.

    Thank you very much Beesie. I am prepared.


  • everythingwillbefine
    everythingwillbefine Member Posts: 96
    edited July 2020

    Beesie,

    I have been reading a lot on this board and I got more nervous while reading along.

    It seems that if the things turns out bad then I might have ILC because my diagnose in 2018 was ALH and not ADH, is my thinking right?

    Starting 2018 I also had a couple of time low white blood cell count low the norm was above 3.5 I think and mine was around 2.8 but then a month later re tested it went back to 4.6

    But now I am worried that I might have cancer at that time already maybe spread to bone already?? because from what I read ILC is hard to detect on mamo and I have very dense breasts. My ALH findings is actually not within the calcification they worried it was found in the tissue that they cut during the biopsy but not the calcification itself. That made me think if I have ILC then it might be there for some time already??

    And if it spread to bone already? because bone marrow cause low white cell count..

    OMG I am so nervous


  • Beesie
    Beesie Member Posts: 12,240
    edited July 2020

    At 25 years, the rate of malignancy for those diagnosed with either ALH or ADH is 30%. While ALH has a greater tendency to develop into a lobular cancer, ALH can develop to become LCIS, DCIS, IDC or ILC.

    My previous post holds with regard to what the imaging shows, specifically the "linearly distributed pleomorphic calcifications". While there can always be surprises or unexpected findings, that description is more consistent with DCIS than anything else. And again, the fact that "There are no suspicious masses or areas of architectural distortion." is a good sign because a mass or architectural distortion in combination with calcifications is more indicative of invasive cancer.

    As for the blood test results, a minor fluctuation in one factor on your bloodwork is nothing more than a blip, and could even be a lab error. To my very limited understanding, if there is any relationship between WBC count and breast cancer, it would be reflected in an increased WBC count. A decreased WBC count is a issue related to breast cancer treatments. Do you really believe that if you had cancer in your bones two years ago, enough to show up in your bloodwork, that no other symptoms or concerning test results would have shown up since then?

    You are way overthinking this, digging around to find any worst case possibility. Could the worst case happen? Yes. Anything can happen. But the likelihood that you will diagnosed with Stage IV breast cancer as a result of this particular imaging is extremely low. It's a lot more likely that you won't be diagnosed at all, or that you will be among the 70% of patients who are diagnosed with either DCIS or a fully localized breast cancer.

    My advice is to stop reading anything until you get your biopsy result. Take your user name seriously!

  • everythingwillbefine
    everythingwillbefine Member Posts: 96
    edited July 2020

    Thank you Beesie!

    I should stop reading and the more I read the more panic I become.

    I forgot to mention that I went through 4 rounds of IVF between age of 36 and 38 to get my two girls when I was 38 and 40. I don't have family history but the extra hormones that I was pumped in made me nervous.

    Thank you and hopefully it turns out just like my username!

    Thanks!


  • everythingwillbefine
    everythingwillbefine Member Posts: 96
    edited July 2020

    Here I am again....Hate this process!

    After I read a lot on this board, Monday I bothered my 2nd opinion breast surgeon if I could have an MRI to further look my breasts since my breasts are extremely dense and I worried that the mamo overlooked anything.

    They scheduled me for yesterday.

    This morning my surgeon called back said MRI is clean for my right side where the suspicious calcifications are. But, my left side which showed clean on all mamo now on MRI displayed a group of masses measuring 8CM along the duct. And they want me back today for ultrasound guided biopsy immediately. I am so scared. It's never ending.

    Beesie what do you think?

  • everythingwillbefine
    everythingwillbefine Member Posts: 96
    edited July 2020

    my biopsy is 1pm today.

  • Valentine214
    Valentine214 Member Posts: 43
    edited July 2020

    How did your biopsy go today?

  • everythingwillbefine
    everythingwillbefine Member Posts: 96
    edited July 2020

    they biopsyed 2 areas and each area the needle went in 4 times to get the sample, it was performed by a radiologist and then a fellow. My breast is so sore and tender now that I can barely move.

    They told me the result should be back on Friday.

    And Friday I will have another biopsy on my right side for the calcifications!

    Then another waiting game till hopefully next Wednesday.

    Hate this

  • Valentine214
    Valentine214 Member Posts: 43
    edited July 2020

    I am sorry you are uncomfortable and now have to play the waiting game. Please let u ds know your results. Praying for the best for you.

  • LiveLoveLaugh2020
    LiveLoveLaugh2020 Member Posts: 322
    edited July 2020

    Praying for you. Wishing you the best.

  • Jons_girl
    Jons_girl Member Posts: 696
    edited July 2020

    we are here for you❤️ Chat anytime. Praying all is ok

  • everythingwillbefine
    everythingwillbefine Member Posts: 96
    edited July 2020

    my right side biopsy result is

    LCIS ADH FEA


    Still waiting for my left side biopsy result

  • Jons_girl
    Jons_girl Member Posts: 696
    edited July 2020

    Sorry to hear that! Thank you for updating us. We are here for you.....sending a hug your way!

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